Dismantle Racism with Rev. Dr. TLC

Thursday, August 4, 2022
Facebook Live Video from 2022/08/04 - Raised in the Sipp

Facebook Live Video from 2022/08/04 - Raised in the Sipp


2022/08/04 - Raised in the Sipp

[NEW EPISODE] Raised in the Sipp

Listeners will get a personal account of what it was like to witness integration. Gangaji will share how it catalyzed her growth and shifted her perspective as a white woman in the South. The audience will hear how the contrasting journeys of Rev. Dr. TLC and Gangaji both resulted in spiritual commitments to advocating for love and equity.


It was 1962 when violent riots broke out on the campus of the University of Mississippi "Ole Miss" following the enrollment of James Meredith, a black Air Force veteran. The integration of the previously all-white school was the catalyst of a historical social shift for the students of Ole Miss and the entirety of Mississippi.⁣ ⁣ 

Rev. Dr. TLC, born shortly after the integration, grew up against a backdrop of rebel flags and Confederate memorabilia just a few minutes from Ole Miss. Her guest, Gangaji was a student at the university when James Meredith was enrolled. Now, sixty years after this momentous event, two former Mississippi residents of two different generations and races sit down to discuss its impact. What was it like to witness it? What was it like to be raised in its aftermath?


Facebook: @GangajiCommunity

Twitter: @Gangaji


Tune in for this important conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Rev. Dr. TLC starts the show off with a guided meditation. Rev. Dr. TLC shares a personal account that took place in her neighborhood where her daughter was nervous of the backlash they might face for blasting music. Rev. Dr. TLC shares another account where she was made conscious of what she wore when dining at a restaurant. She says black people are made to be conscious of how they show up in the world. Rev. Dr. TLC discusses the everyday situations black people find themselves in due to the color of their skin. She encourages her listeners to practice dismantling racism and fight through the challenges that come along with it. Rev. Dr. TLC tells her listeners what she does when obstacles become overwhelming. She channels her mothers words that inspire her to keep going. Rev. Dr. TLC welcomes her guest Gangaji who attended Mississippi University in 1962 when violent riots broke out following the enrollment of James Meredith, a black Air Force veteran.

Segment 2

Gangaji tells Rev. Dr. TLC about her upbringing and what it was like to be raised in Mississippi as a young white girl. She recalls how poorly her community treated black people. She shares how important some of the black maids were to her in her life and how they showed her love and affection. Gangaji said they had to learn how to treat black people over time. She talks about her constant battle between her social and religious views. It wasn’t until Gangaji attended college that her views were challenged and she was forced to reconsider her beliefs.

Segment 3

Gangaji recounts a time with her maid where she addressed Gangaji by calling her Ms. Tony. It made Gangaji feel uncomfortable and she knew it wasn’t respectful to her maid. Gangaji was a sophomore when James Meredith enrolled at the University of Mississippi. It was a time filled with tension and eventually a riot formed. Gangaji shares her experience as a student and how it made her feel at the time. She did not feel afraid because she didn’t feel threatened but she says she felt disheartened. The system at the time was designed to protect individuals like Gangaji. Even though Gangaji was against racism she was not vocal about her concerns. She had a moral agreement between her friends but it never went past that. She was not at a point in her life where she would have taken action, she says that came later in life. She says she couldn’t be silent anymore after MLK’s death.

Segment 4

Rev. Dr. TLC says religion is inherently racist and is more about the interpretation of the practice. Gangaji shares how she got to India and how she became a spiritual teacher. Gangaji moved to California after graduating from Ole Miss in the 70s. Feeling unsatisfied, Gangaji began practicing Buddha meditation. Still lost, she started to pray to a higher power. She found herself in India where she met an Indian guru. If you would like to learn more about Gangaji or get connected with her, you can reach her on her website


00:00:28.410 --> 00:00:42.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: hi and welcome to dismantle racism, where our goal is to uncover dismantle and eradicate racism, we really do want to create a world where racial equity is the norm i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc.

00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:48.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to invite you to do what we do every week, which is to Center ourselves and to.

00:00:49.560 --> 00:01:08.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: take a moment to find our breath, so I want you if you would if you're not driving and you're sitting comfortably just to plant your feet on the floor and really feel the seat, the couch the Chair underneath you.

00:01:09.210 --> 00:01:18.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and find your breath and began to breathe in and out connecting with your sacred source your divine wisdom.

00:01:20.610 --> 00:01:22.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathing in and out.

00:01:25.650 --> 00:01:32.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Knowing that you are guided in ways that manifest your greatness, and the greatness of others.

00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:39.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And today as we're breathing in and out i'm going to share a meditation from my book.

00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:42.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Here, these words.

00:01:44.160 --> 00:01:55.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: beloved spirits and gratitude, we say thank you for all who came before us and showed us what it means to manifest the secret within us.

00:01:56.460 --> 00:02:12.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Let us remember their resolved to make the world a better place for us doing so in small and big waves, let us remember how they lived with integrity holding themselves and those around them accountable.

00:02:13.830 --> 00:02:19.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Let us remember how they walked in truth and showed us what it meant to be ethical.

00:02:20.310 --> 00:02:27.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Let us remember how they work together and cared for their neighbors who extended beyond their corners of the world.

00:02:29.250 --> 00:02:36.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Let us remember their tenacity, courage and determination to advocate for the least of these.

00:02:37.830 --> 00:02:44.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Let us remember that they practice discernment relished wisdom and walked by faith.

00:02:45.480 --> 00:02:51.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're grateful to them and remember them with love and hope in our hearts.

00:02:53.070 --> 00:02:54.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so it is.

00:02:55.350 --> 00:02:57.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Shay and amen.

00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:04.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I invite you to take a deep breath in sight out unless begin.

00:03:08.700 --> 00:03:21.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I always encourage us to begin with a meditation because it's our place of centering and grounding ourselves is that place that we can always return to when we think about our breath.

00:03:21.870 --> 00:03:34.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because every day for me, as a person of color I have the potential of being confronted with race and it shows up all the time, even when i'm not expecting it.

00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:55.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and often I have to just read through it, let me correct that confronted with racism because there's nothing wrong with race there's nothing wrong with talking about race for Racial encounters and racism best the issue it's me having to think about the things I do that.

00:03:57.510 --> 00:04:06.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I would say, people who are white probably don't think about as often I want to give you a couple of examples and i'm giving you these examples, because.

00:04:07.350 --> 00:04:21.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I often work with people who will say this is tiring this is hard and I know it is, believe it or not, I don't always want to talk about race I don't want to have to deal with it, I don't want to have to confront it but it's a part of life.

00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:26.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: here's an example of something that happened to me a couple of days ago.

00:04:28.230 --> 00:04:43.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I was doing something at my home, and I was doing something with my car and for reasons I won't go into on here I blasted the music just for a bit, and I did so intentionally.

00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:56.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And my daughter said mom turn the radio down don't want the neighbors to say anything, and I said, this is my property my house, I can turn the music up if I want.

00:04:57.090 --> 00:04:59.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It she said yes, but we don't want them to call the police.

00:05:02.700 --> 00:05:17.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We were doing something completely innocent it wasn't even like I was having a party I just had the music up just for a second but instantly she had to think about the ramifications because of the neighborhood that we live in.

00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:28.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She knows that people would be suspicious, even though we have lived here for years and we've never had any problems, but still she thought about.

00:05:30.510 --> 00:05:35.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: couple of days later, I was walking with a friend of mine another woman of color.

00:05:36.900 --> 00:05:44.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And as we walked we had to be very conscious because of the neighborhood we were in to make sure that we modulating.

00:05:45.360 --> 00:06:04.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Our voices because we didn't want anyone, so perhaps over here, something we said or to call attention to ourselves, we were very conscious even of how we had to dress in order to go for a walk we were conscious about how we were dressed before we went into the restaurant.

00:06:05.340 --> 00:06:08.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because we knew that we had to show up differently.

00:06:10.110 --> 00:06:13.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And you might say that you don't believe it.

00:06:14.130 --> 00:06:23.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You don't get it, are we making too much of it, I would love to say that we're making too much of it, but we know what happens to us on a daily basis.

00:06:24.900 --> 00:06:42.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Even if it doesn't happen to us personally, and in that conversation we even talked about the woman who was dragged out of a store, because when she was shopping using the back that comes from the store the reusable bag, she was putting things in it.

00:06:43.770 --> 00:06:53.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And the security guard thought that she was stealing she hadn't walked out of the store she hadn't done anything her intent was to go to the counter and pay for it.

00:06:54.840 --> 00:07:01.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: These are the everyday things that happened to me and two other people of color.

00:07:03.150 --> 00:07:06.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So it does get tiring it gets hard.

00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:21.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But here's the thing we cannot turn around and we cannot stop in this movement to dismantle racism so For those of you who want to be involved in the movement.

00:07:21.630 --> 00:07:33.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And you haven't had to think about this for most of your life, I want to encourage you not to turn around to keep going to understand the importance of engaging in this work.

00:07:34.290 --> 00:07:50.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And if you have been engaging in this work and, if you are just trying to get through life, particularly as a person of color as it relates to racism, you cannot give up on the fate, you have to keep going.

00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:56.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so what do I do on days when it's very tiring for me.

00:07:57.660 --> 00:08:08.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I remember the words of my mother, for instance, who used to say things to me like baby when you got your hand and the lion's mouth, you have to move gently.

00:08:09.840 --> 00:08:24.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so, she was teaching me you keep going you keep pressing on but you find the way to move within this entangled world this dangerous world that we live in, you don't stop.

00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:35.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: them also encouraged by people like langston Hughes, who wrote the poem mother to son so i'd like to share that with you.

00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:40.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well son i'll tell you.

00:08:41.250 --> 00:08:54.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Life, for me, eight then no crystal stair its head taxing it and splinters and boards torn up and places with no carpet on the floor bear.

00:08:55.500 --> 00:09:15.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But all the time as been climbing on and reaching landon's and turning corners and sometimes going in the dark, where there ain't been no light so boy don't to turn back don't just sit down on the steps cause you find it kind of hard don't you fall now.

00:09:16.830 --> 00:09:18.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I still going honey.

00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:25.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I still climbing and life for me ain't been no crystal stair.

00:09:26.970 --> 00:09:41.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And that's what I think about in this journey of dismantling racism, I think about the people who came up before me, the people who navigated racism in ways that are unimaginable to me.

00:09:41.610 --> 00:09:52.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, even though there are things that I have to deal with every single day, I know that my ancestors dealt with so much more so i'm grateful for them.

00:09:53.160 --> 00:10:11.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And, as I said, on my show last week, in fact, I know that not just my ancestors, but I know that there were white people as well who decided that they weren't going to stand up, that they were going to be a part of the change, so I want to invite all of us to continue.

00:10:13.350 --> 00:10:25.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I have the privilege today of talking with someone who was actually a student at Ole miss the University of Mississippi when James meredith.

00:10:25.980 --> 00:10:40.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Integrated oh miss now I happen to be born a couple of years after me integrated Ole miss and I lived 15 minutes away from the University of Mississippi, so to say that.

00:10:41.070 --> 00:10:45.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am so delighted to have this guest on is an understatement.

00:10:45.540 --> 00:10:58.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because i've often wondered, as I hope you have i've wondered about the people cool have gone through the journey of the civil rights movement i've wondered about my ancestors, who did it.

00:10:58.650 --> 00:11:13.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And i've wondered about the white people who were on the other side i've wondered about the ones who really were perpetuating racism, the ones who were blatantly racist and I wonder how are they today.

00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:29.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And then I wonder about the courageous people who decided, enough is enough, and so i'm going to stand out so today on the show we're going to be talking about raised in the city.

00:11:29.760 --> 00:11:39.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so, for those of you who don't know what raised in the city is, I want to refer you, because this is like shout out to the comedian read a Brent.

00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:52.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: who wrote a song called raised in the city because she's so proud of being from Mississippi and I am as well and we'll have to find out if my guest today is proud of being from Mississippi I hope so, but.

00:11:53.100 --> 00:12:03.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There are a lot of people who were born and raised in Mississippi who decided that enough is enough.

00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:18.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so i'm going to be talking with my guest today gone big she was born Tony roberson she grew up, as I said in Mississippi and, like many of her contemporary she searched for fulfillment through relationships.

00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:34.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: career motherhood so cultural experiences experiences political activism and spiritual practice she never planned to go to India but she'll tell us a little bit about that, today, because when she went to India.

00:12:34.710 --> 00:12:48.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: her life changed and we're going to talk a little bit more about that today ganga G is the author of the diamond in your pocket discovering your true radiance freedom and resolve.

00:12:48.690 --> 00:13:02.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The living edge of surrender, and you are that, and so I want to welcome to the show today before we take a quick break ganga gene welcome welcome welcome i'm so delighted that you are here.

00:13:05.790 --> 00:13:18.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So Ganda G, we are going to take just a quick break and we will be right back to talk with you a little bit more and find out all about your experience and India and find out.

00:13:19.650 --> 00:13:27.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How you got the name gun gigi we'll be right back this is the dismantle racism show i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc.

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00:15:43.920 --> 00:16:00.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are back with the dismantle racism show my guest today is gone to gene and ganga gee I am I really am very excited to have you here on the show today to be able to talk with someone who was.

00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:05.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know involved in many ways in the civil rights movement.

00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:22.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But before we get to that ganga G, I believe that the work of dismantling racism is really so work its spirit work is sacred work and we have to connect with something really deep within us so.

00:16:23.370 --> 00:16:31.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That takes a commitment that connection, to be able to connect with the soul work and it takes practice so tell me a little bit about.

00:16:32.190 --> 00:16:46.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Your own spiritual evolution and teachings because I know coming from Mississippi where we came from it wasn't there were certain things that were taught and there were other things that we had less.

00:16:47.850 --> 00:16:52.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: opportunities to explore it but tell me about your evolution.

00:16:53.430 --> 00:17:17.100 Gangaji: Well, growing up, I have a normal Christian superficial Christian upbringing, but I have to say I was also struck by many aspects of that upbringing, I felt a connection and, as I began to grow up say junior high school high school I recognize there was something in congruent.

00:17:17.850 --> 00:17:20.070 Gangaji: With what we were taught as Christians.

00:17:21.210 --> 00:17:30.300 Gangaji: And, especially in the south, and especially as a white person in the cell and in a place clarksdale Mississippi that was half black and half white.

00:17:31.620 --> 00:17:34.680 Gangaji: There was this way that we were treating.

00:17:36.030 --> 00:17:49.860 Gangaji: black people even people we loved we had a series of black maids and I would say, one of them for sure saved my life in terms of love and affection and physical kindness.

00:17:50.910 --> 00:18:08.970 Gangaji: So the love was there, but the treatment was in congruent and it was something that we had to learn and I recognize that and it sort of made either you learned it so well, that you didn't recognize anything was off or there was something that was off.

00:18:09.990 --> 00:18:13.170 Gangaji: and growing up, as I did in the 60s.

00:18:14.550 --> 00:18:26.760 Gangaji: It was in my face first the freedom riders came to Mississippi in the 1950s 55, I think, and it was all of a sudden, people were saying things that.

00:18:28.230 --> 00:18:41.010 Gangaji: That I had heard from a religious perspective, but they were saying it socially and I it chipped away at something that really I recognize now and.

00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:48.690 Gangaji: I did, after some years, then unless we are willing to see what's in congruent.

00:18:49.860 --> 00:18:54.150 Gangaji: systems we really can't develop as souls.

00:18:55.260 --> 00:19:13.470 Gangaji: As true human beings and there's a lot of course it's encouraged because we're conditioned by particular families in particular socio economic situations and and we have worldviews and views about our neighbors, and so it has to be faced.

00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:17.970 Gangaji: And I would say, this was the first place, it was it at least shunned me there was.

00:19:18.510 --> 00:19:22.740 Gangaji: Something off I couldn't put my finger on it, I was afraid to put my finger on it.

00:19:24.600 --> 00:19:32.430 Gangaji: go against a whole tied, it would have been for my religious instruction, but it will be against my social instruction.

00:19:33.510 --> 00:19:45.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know you just said, you said a lot of things that were really important in there, and you were saying that to go against a whole structure you to go against a whole system.

00:19:46.020 --> 00:19:57.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I think that often we don't think about what the people who did go against that system white included this was a really big deal to go against the entire system.

00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:14.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And as you were talking about the inconsistency and I think about cognitive dissonance the things that we have to do to make ourselves be okay with things I come from a tradition, I am a Presbyterian pastor.

00:20:15.600 --> 00:20:31.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The history of our denomination is that it was split over slavery over the enslavement of people, it was split and a lot of people don't know that history, but there was a southern Presbyterian.

00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:57.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: who left church to go to a luncheon left in the pulpit to go to a luncheon and then to return I think people don't understand the deepness of the in green hatred and racism that was prevalent, and this is a system that you grew up in as a white person.

00:20:58.710 --> 00:21:15.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know, we think about it from people of color perspective but you're here and you're talking about what that was like for you so tell me more than about your continued evolution you, you began to see that this wasn't right.

00:21:17.490 --> 00:21:21.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So what did you do, because that must have messed you up inside.

00:21:21.570 --> 00:21:26.400 Gangaji: Well before I could even get to this isn't right I knew something was wrong.

00:21:27.510 --> 00:21:36.600 Gangaji: And, and of course people were telling us it was wrong, I remember once in sitting with my family in my living room.

00:21:37.050 --> 00:21:54.330 Gangaji: And I think it was freedom summer when that influx of college students are white and black came into Mississippi to really support the black community and I heard my mother said it's the Christian thing to do.

00:21:55.590 --> 00:22:02.220 Gangaji: And my father jumped out of his chair and he said don't you ever say anything like that again.

00:22:03.840 --> 00:22:06.240 Gangaji: Ever ever other anything like that.

00:22:07.260 --> 00:22:18.450 Gangaji: And of course it struck us the children and later I reflected that how could he have jumped up and said that because she was making a statement you know.

00:22:19.230 --> 00:22:29.910 Gangaji: Really, a brave statement within the family and I had to see that from his perspective as a lawyer in this little town with the position that he had.

00:22:30.600 --> 00:22:35.670 Gangaji: or all of that was threatened if he had a wife, who was saying that the freedom summer.

00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:50.940 Gangaji: participants were right, they were doing the Christian thing the right thing, so whatever his personal views and he did have racist personal views his whole life structure was threatened by even allowing that in.

00:22:51.990 --> 00:22:52.890 Gangaji: It was said.

00:22:53.070 --> 00:22:54.150 Gangaji: And we did hear it.

00:22:55.320 --> 00:23:05.760 Gangaji: Both my brother and my sister who had since passed had to deal with their racism, as I did, and they did deal with it, they confront it head on.

00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.790 Gangaji: And I really think that was the seed of it.

00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:17.610 Gangaji: Our mother something like that, who was generally a very outspoken person and and she spoke what was her truth in that moment.

00:23:18.300 --> 00:23:20.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So it shows the power of words, though.

00:23:20.970 --> 00:23:24.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, right truth in that moment, and it trickled down.

00:23:25.110 --> 00:23:28.350 Gangaji: It was huge for me because I knew, she was correct.

00:23:29.370 --> 00:23:39.780 Gangaji: And I had been sort of seeing that but, when she said that I was confirmed in recognizing it and I didn't jump on.

00:23:40.890 --> 00:23:44.340 Gangaji: The bandwagon, I was still the hidden.

00:23:45.570 --> 00:23:54.150 Gangaji: Southerner who was dealing with her racial views and coming to terms with them and discarding the ones that were evil.

00:23:55.830 --> 00:24:01.200 Gangaji: But it started it was the catalyst for it, and I am so grateful for that and.

00:24:02.370 --> 00:24:13.230 Gangaji: I was undercover for many, many years I didn't discuss it with my friends, we didn't talk about it because it was inconvenient and our conversations were very superficial.

00:24:14.340 --> 00:24:21.960 Gangaji: Until I got I think I mentioned with you in our earlier conversations when I went to college in 1960.

00:24:22.620 --> 00:24:37.020 Gangaji: I had a professor, who had come to Ole miss from Harvard specifically to teach history, but also to meet the young mississippians who would be in his class and to challenge their viewpoint.

00:24:37.830 --> 00:24:48.210 Gangaji: And he did, and I don't know where he is but Dr hammer wherever you are he challenged my viewpoint and I it it crumbled.

00:24:48.600 --> 00:24:49.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In the.

00:24:49.440 --> 00:25:02.430 Gangaji: Whole order, I saw I had been conditioned to think a certain way and that inherently that wasn't the way I felt it wasn't the way I truly thought when I thought freely.

00:25:02.970 --> 00:25:04.830 Gangaji: um so.

00:25:04.860 --> 00:25:19.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That is, so I think what's powerful I that I think our audience would love to know is that your father intentionally sent you so for reasons so tell tell our audience, why was your father send you to.

00:25:20.580 --> 00:25:24.210 Gangaji: Well, he sent me to omit, as he said it was the only school, he would pay for.

00:25:25.410 --> 00:25:31.800 Gangaji: because all the rest of the country would in indoctrinate me and the communist moral view.

00:25:33.060 --> 00:25:46.500 Gangaji: My first trip home from Ole miss I began to share with my parents, I was very excited so I naturally shared with them what I was discovering and part of that was from this history class and he.

00:25:47.610 --> 00:25:52.530 Gangaji: Again jumped up out of his chair, he was irate he said they have made you a Communist.

00:25:53.940 --> 00:25:55.470 Gangaji: Who he thought was safe.

00:25:57.300 --> 00:26:13.860 Gangaji: And from then on, we were at loggerheads, even though there was a lot of love there, and finally, or a reconciliation, there was never a meeting he never really got what my point was in the point my mother had been making those years before.

00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:15.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know.

00:26:16.590 --> 00:26:24.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It land listening to you talk and I hope that my audience is feeling This, too, we can see how racism hurts us all.

00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:35.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I mean you know, obviously with your father in the two of you being really at odds it caused a great deal of tension and you are my first guest.

00:26:35.580 --> 00:26:36.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To say that.

00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:51.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That is, and that has to be painful when we stop, and we take a look at that and even if you never challenged your father your your internal torvill would be great.

00:26:52.230 --> 00:26:54.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know and i'm thinking, I have to tell you.

00:26:55.830 --> 00:27:07.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is really interesting that we're having this conversation and I don't know if people can even grasp the gravity of this conversation that I.

00:27:08.610 --> 00:27:10.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: was born in the 60s.

00:27:11.310 --> 00:27:18.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In Mississippi while you were 15 minutes away from me bro James meredith was integrating.

00:27:19.890 --> 00:27:21.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This the University of Mississippi.

00:27:22.950 --> 00:27:27.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But not only that when you began to talk and you.

00:27:28.170 --> 00:27:30.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You said we had maids.

00:27:31.050 --> 00:27:31.410 and

00:27:33.360 --> 00:27:37.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There were times that my mother had to be domestic help.

00:27:38.670 --> 00:27:49.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And it wasn't a lot, but she did because I remember going with her, and so the gravity of this this moment that we're having that my mother.

00:27:50.970 --> 00:27:56.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Who was an educator actually so she did it, it was very short lived.

00:27:57.750 --> 00:28:01.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And it wasn't for most of my life, but I can remember that.

00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:03.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I can remember.

00:28:04.980 --> 00:28:07.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: My parents saying yes, sir.

00:28:07.320 --> 00:28:07.530 and

00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:17.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: until something happened and it stopped, but I remember that and I don't know if people can even just grasp that.

00:28:18.120 --> 00:28:36.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What that's like for me to sit with a white woman in her 80s, who who know the structure, who was involved in the structure and and the thing about it is wow women like my mother were in homes like yours, taking care of your home.

00:28:38.310 --> 00:28:46.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know, there were other women, thankfully, in our neighborhood who helped to take care of us and our families right, you know we were.

00:28:47.190 --> 00:28:58.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So connected that we took care of one another, so this isn't about feeling sorry for me personally, but this is a huge moment because I wonder if my parents were alive.

00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:02.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When they would make of this moment.

00:29:03.630 --> 00:29:05.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because it's also.

00:29:06.780 --> 00:29:25.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: A special moment in that we can see how the world has changed, even though there's still a need to dismantle racism, we can see that there has been some growth, and so I hope that my listeners can understand that, even though sometimes things don't change in our lifetime.

00:29:27.210 --> 00:29:35.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It has change, and so I want to talk with you a little bit more about what it was like for you just to be on the campus.

00:29:35.790 --> 00:29:42.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In talk about that a little bit, and then we got to get to where you finally got to India and became this spiritual.

00:29:43.770 --> 00:29:54.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: guru that you are we want to talk about that, but we do have to take a quick break, we will be right back with my guest today God oh gee, this is the dismantle racism show.

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00:31:53.760 --> 00:32:07.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are back with the dismantle racism show guy the G before the break, we were talking about really your evolution, not just spiritually but your evolution around.

00:32:08.040 --> 00:32:21.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Racism being wrong and we've mentioned several times that you were at Ole miss when James meredith was integrating tell us a little bit about that time for you what was that, like.

00:32:23.490 --> 00:32:35.010 Gangaji: Well, I had had what was my initial breakthrough about my own racism and was dealing with that I just want to say this, one thing that I went back home to clarksdale one weekend.

00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:42.510 Gangaji: From Ole miss and are made, who was I always called Florence and she always a call me miss Tony.

00:32:43.260 --> 00:33:01.860 Gangaji: I don't know if you remember that, but that was that was a given if you were four years old, you will miss Tony if you and I said you've got to stop calling me miss Tony I can't bear it I should be calling you miss clients, she said no, I can't bear that but she did start calling me Tony.

00:33:03.360 --> 00:33:04.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and

00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:17.670 Gangaji: And you know that was that was the extent of my action my racial action, it was internal after that and then James meredith when I was a sophomore at Ole miss.

00:33:19.650 --> 00:33:29.790 Gangaji: We knew he was going to enroll I mean it was a given that Ross barnett had been the governor and he had fought it as much as he could but we knew it and, in fact, he.

00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:41.580 Gangaji: He did show up to integrate and he was a very bright young black man who was fully qualified to be at Ole miss, and there was a huge riot.

00:33:43.080 --> 00:33:49.320 Gangaji: People came in from the hills and many of the students participated, perhaps most of the students.

00:33:50.040 --> 00:34:03.360 Gangaji: And several people were killed, I mean it was it was an interesting thing because it was the first of the student riots of the 16th only it was a riot on the opposite side of most student riots.

00:34:03.930 --> 00:34:18.030 Gangaji: It was a riot further regret greed aggressive tendencies of racism and the insult that these white people felt that a black man could a black student could integrate their school.

00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:26.070 Gangaji: is very integrated now and is is one of the beacons of racial justice in the south.

00:34:27.090 --> 00:34:49.620 Gangaji: And I think that the Professor was were mainly that point of view, then, to, but the student body and the people who, who came from outside the student body we're all vehemently dangerously against his being there, and so I was watching all of this, I was.

00:34:51.270 --> 00:34:57.510 Gangaji: It was Hillary a mutual friend of ours, asked me how did you feel when that happened.

00:34:57.720 --> 00:35:01.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's exactly what I was going to ask you to like what was the feeling like for you.

00:35:02.610 --> 00:35:04.020 Gangaji: Well disheartened.

00:35:05.490 --> 00:35:13.200 Gangaji: It was a it was unbelievable in certain ways that so many people could be so angry.

00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:20.970 Gangaji: About a qualified person attending a state school or university.

00:35:22.230 --> 00:35:27.900 Gangaji: And, and then I looked around in my dorm and in my sorority house, and I would say, most of them.

00:35:29.070 --> 00:35:36.870 Gangaji: While not on the campus with with riot gear we're supporting the rioters I was definitely in the minority.

00:35:38.190 --> 00:35:38.670 Gangaji: There were.

00:35:38.820 --> 00:35:40.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Eight at all or did you feel a.

00:35:40.830 --> 00:35:42.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: didn't your life.

00:35:42.510 --> 00:36:01.050 Gangaji: I didn't feel afraid because I was a white person, you know I very seldom felt afraid and Mississippi because I know or I knew, when I was spending time in Mississippi growing up in Mississippi that the whole structure was designed to protect me in particular as a woman as a female.

00:36:01.620 --> 00:36:11.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, so so but ganga G if you were on the opposite side, though, you still didn't feel afraid to stand up or verbal about.

00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:26.430 Gangaji: I wasn't advertising it, I mean my friends and I were in agreement, but we were like observing it sort of in shock, but no I wasn't at a point in my life, where I.

00:36:27.810 --> 00:36:34.830 Gangaji: would have taken action that came later that actually came with Martin Luther King and and Martin Luther king's death.

00:36:35.370 --> 00:36:42.630 Gangaji: When you realize that you can't be on the sidelines anymore, I was, I was just dumbstruck I was.

00:36:43.560 --> 00:36:59.220 Gangaji: You know I voiced my opinions to my family and my close friends, but I wasn't an activist, by any means, and I didn't know who the activist more if there were any at home message that time mm hmm.

00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:13.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I, and I do know that there was another incident that happened on campus with your cousin or something right with you tell us a little bit about that, because there were some racial things that.

00:37:13.560 --> 00:37:13.920 came.

00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:28.950 Gangaji: Well, James Miriam did get into school, the National Guard Kennedy called out President Kennedy called out the National Guard, and he was allowed to enter and he had to be attend classes on the arm go hard.

00:37:30.210 --> 00:37:38.640 Gangaji: But the school sort of got used to it and begin to operate as a school and we had a very famous good football team and.

00:37:39.270 --> 00:37:48.480 Gangaji: One Saturday I with my boyfriend who became my husband and a couple of other friends went to an Ole miss football game.

00:37:49.260 --> 00:38:01.320 Gangaji: And we just looked up at the bleachers and there were there was a rule of empty seats and as we got up there, we saw all well they're not exactly empty they were like three or four black students who were there.

00:38:02.430 --> 00:38:13.950 Gangaji: And one of us said okay if we sit here and they said sure, and so we sat down, we were sitting in this role bleachers not as a political action at all we hadn't even considered that.

00:38:14.790 --> 00:38:34.290 Gangaji: But I a group of people began to shout at us horrible things and my cousin my first cousin excuse me that I had grown up with got a megaphone and was shouting and he was shouting ask them about the Congo, because Congo was having.

00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:54.180 Gangaji: enormous problems at that time, as if the students had anything to do with Congo and whatever issues they were asked him about the Congo and just berating us he was taking his Stan maybe so everyone would be sure where he stood if he's even if his cousin.

00:38:54.660 --> 00:38:56.580 Gangaji: was sitting next to black people.

00:38:57.060 --> 00:38:57.510 Ray.

00:38:59.040 --> 00:39:03.450 Gangaji: Though there was a schism that was created between us, that was really never healed.

00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:15.180 Gangaji: referred to it when we would happen to see each other at gatherings of funerals we never mentioned it, but it was just this us, and he actually became good friends with.

00:39:16.530 --> 00:39:17.430 Gangaji: Morgan freeman.

00:39:17.970 --> 00:39:34.020 Gangaji: Later Morgan freeman had a restaurant in clarksdale and he he was friends with him, so he must have had his own journey to to finally see the light, but that was 1963 64 when that happened.

00:39:35.520 --> 00:39:54.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, again you're pointing out how families can sometimes be torn apart as a result of this, so you said when Dr King came along, he began to become a little bit more active, so what were some of the things that you did in order to promote racial equity.

00:39:55.500 --> 00:40:09.210 Gangaji: Well, I was by then a teacher and memphis and I had been assigned a school the school where Elvis Elvis Presley had attended high school and it was the first year that it was going to be integrated.

00:40:10.620 --> 00:40:22.500 Gangaji: So they will probably half black and half white students, the Faculty was not integrated at that point, the next year, they would become integrated, and so I had a homeroom students have 40 black students.

00:40:24.180 --> 00:40:34.170 Gangaji: Maybe there were 10 white students and that and so these were my students and they were from poor neighborhoods in a rough part of memphis and.

00:40:35.520 --> 00:40:49.170 Gangaji: And we were in it together, so there was a bonding that happened, even though it was it was a really difficult year but, at the same time, there was a sanitation stripe sanitation workers in memphis.

00:40:49.800 --> 00:41:00.390 Gangaji: Just actually asking for basic wage level pay but their theme was and they wore these placards it said, I am a man.

00:41:00.930 --> 00:41:15.540 Gangaji: Yes, basically, it was so basic it was so heart rendering and that really just opened my heart, and so my husband and I joined a few of the protests, the Marches.

00:41:16.560 --> 00:41:31.050 Gangaji: And then, it was within that strike that Dr King came and spoke and then was killed, and so we then march stepped of that and it really was a watershed moment, I think, for the whole country where you realize.

00:41:32.580 --> 00:41:36.180 Gangaji: Just how serious this is on both sides.

00:41:36.390 --> 00:41:49.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right gaga gee I wonder, you know as i'm listening to you talk about the sanitation strike, and you marching in it and I knew that you know that what followed was Dr king, was assassinated.

00:41:50.460 --> 00:42:04.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What was it like for you and 2020 when George floyd was murdered and then now you see all these millions of people marching again, what do to your your spirits.

00:42:05.850 --> 00:42:10.200 Gangaji: Well, you know the spirit, once it has been set free.

00:42:11.490 --> 00:42:20.190 Gangaji: recognizes itself and in these people who are saying no more these these black people are women are.

00:42:21.630 --> 00:42:27.360 Gangaji: All over the world yeah with the horror of the continuance.

00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:45.030 Gangaji: Of the racism and the racism in police departments are places of power that still suppresses that and so there's a disheartening aspect to it but there's also a heartening spec that it's like.

00:42:46.530 --> 00:42:56.070 Gangaji: we're in this, you know we and now it's younger people are in this and we will stay in this as long as it's necessary.

00:42:56.460 --> 00:42:59.220 Gangaji: Yes, my heart goes out to that.

00:42:59.730 --> 00:43:07.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, that's beautiful, thank you, thank you for saying that I know that, for me, even though I didn't go through.

00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:15.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know what my ancestors went through, I know that i've seen the shift, and I can remember, I can remember the aftermath.

00:43:16.050 --> 00:43:22.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of James meredith I can remember seeing the whites only black only signs that they kept up.

00:43:22.470 --> 00:43:34.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Even though we could still you know we could go in and use the same restroom but the sign stayed up for a long time, because it was sending a message to us, and so I remember those things.

00:43:35.160 --> 00:43:44.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I also was able to help my children navigate in 2020 when they were so angry, I could use my wisdom.

00:43:46.200 --> 00:44:03.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: From years ago to be able to help them to navigate and also the call myself to this group, this great work, because it is great work yeah and the soul work that I had been doing for years, but it kind of stopped for a little bit, but.

00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:06.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But at the same time.

00:44:07.200 --> 00:44:15.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That I could move them along and help them to navigate was also still dreadfully painful say wow.

00:44:16.170 --> 00:44:28.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: my ancestors died for us not to continue to have to go through this and it was painful that my children now let's face it.

00:44:29.640 --> 00:44:42.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: As you say, we continue to keep moving forward i'm gonna do we do have to take another quick break and when we come back for our last segment of the show, I really want to talk about then.

00:44:43.230 --> 00:44:51.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How you eventually got to India and how it has helped to continue to set yourself free, we will be right back after these messages.

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00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:39.690 Oh.

00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:49.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Wait.

00:46:51.540 --> 00:46:59.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are back with the dismantle racism show ganga gee Thank you so much for our discussion now, before we in.

00:47:01.170 --> 00:47:06.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: down as you, you know I happen to be a Christian pastor and.

00:47:07.470 --> 00:47:16.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I know that a lot of people have been wounded by religion, and as you were saying you saw in congruency.

00:47:16.890 --> 00:47:32.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I know that my particular faith has also been used in ways that are inherently racist in fact that when we were enslaved there was a Bible that just was just for enslaved people.

00:47:33.090 --> 00:47:45.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so, for me, I believe, is the interpretation of our practices, and I believe that there's a way that we have to understand who we are.

00:47:46.680 --> 00:48:10.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so I just want to to acknowledge that I see the deeply inherent problems with it, and I also see the beauty of it, I also recognize that there are many people who say I cannot be a part of this so tell us about how you got to India and then how you became a spiritual teacher.

00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:27.480 Gangaji: Well, you know, after all, Miss and leaving the south, I very much wanted and did leave the South and moved to California to San Francisco in the early 70s and just.

00:48:28.380 --> 00:48:48.270 Gangaji: I felt a release of the area even have a heaviness of the area and, and so I was a part of the countercultural the freedom love counterculture and that was really fun, but ultimately not satisfying either I recognize that I had been cut loose from.

00:48:49.380 --> 00:49:02.850 Gangaji: What was in congruent in my upbringing and my religion but I hadn't found what I was searching for so I began some Buddhist meditations and other different kinds of meditation and.

00:49:03.930 --> 00:49:11.220 Gangaji: And after several years I realized, I was still just yearning for what I couldn't even say, but I began to pray.

00:49:12.630 --> 00:49:22.290 Gangaji: I wouldn't have even said, who I was praying to the universe, the cosmos God, whatever we we name that mystery that force.

00:49:23.100 --> 00:49:43.350 Gangaji: And I just prayed for help, I didn't know what that meant and I wasn't looking for a teacher per se, I certainly was not looking for an Indian guru I had seen Indian gurus come through San Francisco and I know, had some negative judgment about the whole scene around the gurus and.

00:49:44.700 --> 00:49:55.290 Gangaji: And yet I was praying for help, and I was truly praying for help and after a series of really miraculous incidences I found myself in India.

00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.030 Gangaji: Meeting this.

00:49:57.060 --> 00:50:01.230 Gangaji: man who opened the door when I knocked on it and said welcome.

00:50:03.510 --> 00:50:06.330 Gangaji: And somehow the word freedom came up.

00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:07.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: wow.

00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:17.250 Gangaji: On freedom I don't know where that came from I didn't say enlightenment I didn't say dog realization I want freedom, he said you're in the right place.

00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:22.320 Gangaji: And then he invited myself in my husband in for tea and.

00:50:23.520 --> 00:50:31.170 Gangaji: And I he I said so tell me what to do, thinking, he would give me a new practice or a mantra or something, and he said just be still.

00:50:33.390 --> 00:50:40.380 Gangaji: So I had meditated by then, I thought I knew how to do being still so I was still he said no, no that's too much, but you really.

00:50:41.490 --> 00:50:43.230 Gangaji: don't do anything for my heart.

00:50:45.540 --> 00:50:51.330 Gangaji: And once I was willing to be still I felt an enormous fear arise.

00:50:51.900 --> 00:50:54.690 Gangaji: Lu fear of the unknown.

00:50:56.970 --> 00:51:12.960 Gangaji: Of what I was looking for their stillness fear of death, fear of losing the ground, I had gained in my mind, but I recognized, he was a teacher and I was here, and this was an answer to a prayer so I was willing to be still.

00:51:14.730 --> 00:51:16.080 Gangaji: And in that stillness.

00:51:17.580 --> 00:51:21.210 Gangaji: I recognize its present tense or.

00:51:22.560 --> 00:51:23.490 Gangaji: The fulfillment.

00:51:24.660 --> 00:51:34.560 Gangaji: That is our nature and the freedom that is here, regardless of circumstances physical, mental emotional social.

00:51:35.670 --> 00:51:40.560 Gangaji: global circumstances that there is in all of us this.

00:51:41.580 --> 00:51:43.560 Gangaji: Is light of freedom.

00:51:45.060 --> 00:51:45.810 Gangaji: fulfillment.

00:51:47.430 --> 00:52:07.080 Gangaji: So he asked me to to share that with people I don't see myself as a guru i'm not a guru i'm i'm just like though everyone I meet and i'm just willing to to meet everyone who's drawn to me, for whatever reason, and and invite them to the stillness.

00:52:09.240 --> 00:52:16.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So that's what you do now in your practice your own practice, but you offer that to people.

00:52:16.770 --> 00:52:17.670 Gangaji: Yes, and.

00:52:19.050 --> 00:52:20.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Come the teacher.

00:52:21.120 --> 00:52:34.740 Gangaji: Yes, we all are the students and the teachers aren't we because a lot of what I offer people is is a willingness to recognize or to overhear our own narratives.

00:52:35.970 --> 00:52:48.960 Gangaji: about the future about the past and the willingness to recognize the validity of those narratives but the closer than the narrative is the freedom of being is the fulfillment of being.

00:52:50.130 --> 00:52:54.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So garbage if people wanted to come and work with you how do they do that.

00:52:55.650 --> 00:53:18.540 Gangaji: Well, I have an online presence, I do a monthly online meeting and I would recommend if anyone's interested going to the website it's GA in GA J I dot O rg and the full schedule, as well as a sampling of the form or in the format my teachings.

00:53:18.810 --> 00:53:29.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: um so we have to know where does the name ganga G come from i'm good I know you happen to be on the gun the G rivers, when you went to India but.

00:53:30.060 --> 00:53:32.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah it's Ganges river right now.

00:53:33.540 --> 00:53:49.800 Gangaji: In English we call it Ganges in India, they call it ganga the River ganga and there's a name for a goddess and I came in one morning to meet with my teacher and he said Oh, I dreamed about you last night he said I know your name should be ganga.

00:53:50.940 --> 00:54:00.660 Gangaji: And then, he said, and they should call you ganga g to show respect the G at the end is usually an honorific or what you would say to an older person.

00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:19.290 Gangaji: So ganga G is the name I didn't think I would use it, because i've never wanted names, especially hard to pronounce names from India, but when he asked me to speak to people I knew it was appropriate to speak to people with that name competition.

00:54:19.710 --> 00:54:22.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: hmm well God energy I just love.

00:54:22.770 --> 00:54:33.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The name and really I I love your spirit in terms of this idea of a freedom in so when you think about.

00:54:33.750 --> 00:54:34.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Your message.

00:54:39.060 --> 00:54:49.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And light i'm sorry about that we think about your message of freedom and light how How does that work with dismantling racism.

00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:57.180 Gangaji: Well they're on the same cloth if I hadn't been able to face my the lie.

00:54:58.410 --> 00:54:59.850 Gangaji: of my own imprisonment.

00:55:01.200 --> 00:55:20.910 Gangaji: By my participation in imprisoning and enslaving people, whether through my ancestral blood or in my personal life, it was that in congruency if I hadn't faced that, then I wouldn't have been able to explore deeper levels of my own consciousness.

00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:27.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: um Well, I do hope that people will come, and they will look you up and work with you.

00:55:28.560 --> 00:55:39.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To help find freedom just period and to find their own inner light, because I believe i'd find it as our sacred intelligence and I believe we all have.

00:55:39.630 --> 00:55:51.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: a place where we are meant to soar so I want to thank you for being here today, I want to thank my guests for listening ganga gee what could you offer us in terms of blessing, as we end show.

00:55:53.010 --> 00:55:58.350 Gangaji: We have a blessing I love to offer is the invitation to trust yourself.

00:55:59.370 --> 00:56:15.900 Gangaji: And my trust yourself I don't mean your emotions or your thoughts or even your intuition, but closer than that trust the truth of yourself and then it naturally brings you home to yourself.

00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:25.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Thank you so much, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here, thank you to my listeners today I want to invite you to.

00:56:26.670 --> 00:56:31.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Please go to my website at sacred and learn more about the work that.

00:56:31.830 --> 00:56:43.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I do, as well as learn about the course that I have coming up beginning September 14 it's a six week course on dismantling racism, please stay tuned for the conscious consultant our.

00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:56.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: SAB liebowitz where he helps you to walk through life with the greatest of ease enjoy the well be safe, be encouraged until next time bye for now.

00:57:19.470 --> 00:57:19.470 listening.

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