Dismantle Racism with Rev. Dr. TLC

Thursday, July 21, 2022
Facebook Live Video from 2022/07/20 - Wrestling with the Complexities of Racism

Facebook Live Video from 2022/07/20 - Wrestling with the Complexities of Racism


2022/07/20 - Wrestling with the Complexities of Racism

[NEW EPISODE] Wrestling with the Complexities of Racism


Dr. Palmer will share a personal account of her experience with the inner work as well as external interactions that we part of her journey with contributing to the solution. Listeners will get some context around the connections between colonialism, our economy, and racism, as well as tools to challenge these systems on a daily basis.


The ideals and practices of colonialism are at the root of racism, and specifically, anti-blackness around the world.

Colonialism has and continues to be fuel for the global economy at the expense of many peoples and often entire countries, especially those inhabited mostly by BIPOC. Due to these ideals being so indoctrinated in our history and culture, their symptoms go unnoticed daily.

London native and French resident, Dr. Alison Palmer, will join Rev. Dr. TLC to discuss the global social impact of colonialism and its intersection with racism. They will explore the white liberal feminist perspective from a personal point of view and the belief systems and behaviors that can either continue fundamentally racist legacies of colonial patriarchal structures or contribute to healing and transformation in the world. 

How do we move into actions that challenge racist and imperialist ties to the global economy and grapple with our own place in it?


Tune in for this important conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Rev. Dr. TLC begins the show with a meditation from her book Dismantling Racism. People often ask Rev. Dr. TLC, how do you recognize racism and how do you respond to it? She says it starts with a simple question that you ask yourself; what are you noticing? Where are the people of color and why are they absent in your community? When you begin to notice how people show up in the world then you can begin to dismantle racism. Rev. Dr. TLC points out the stereotypes that she found in one of her beloved sitcoms. She explains how a popular sitcom can perpetuate the cycle of racism by pushing stereotypes onto their characters. These writing methods can be used to make their viewers think but can be overlooked when it’s done comedically. On July 27th, Rev. Dr. TLC is offering a short webinar on how to recognize and respond to racism. Before the break, Rev. Dr. TLC introduces her guest and business coach, Alison Palmer.

Segment 2

Rev. Dr. TLC welcomes Alison Palmer to the show. Alison is originally from London but currently lives in France. She tells Rev. Dr. TLC about her upbringing in Cheltenham and how it relates to colonialism. Alison describes it as a beautiful place to live but notes it as predominantly white. She says her town was filled with proud middle class people while the town next door was looked down upon. The town next door was surrounded by boats and Alison says that stems from slavery. She explains how their history was celebrated despite the cruelty that was done to the slaves. Alison says she didn’t get a sense of diversity until she moved to London. Rev. Dr. TLC asks Alison at what point did she become aware of race and racism? Alison says it wasn’t until her family had black neighbors did she realize race was an issue. Her father disapproved of the family due to the color of their skin and told his family they were criminals.

Segment 3

Alison talks about her work in dismantling racism and some of the challenges she has faced. She says she had to learn and understand the complexities in order to spread awareness around the issue of racial injustice. Alison mentions that she had to do more than just march and protest to dismantle racism; she had to discover a deeper understanding of systematic oppression. She also notes that she had to give an opportunity of open dialogue with the other side in order to grasp their idea and clearly state her opinion.

Segment 4

Rev. Dr. TLC asks Alison’s take on white liberalism and its complacency. Alison speaks on the lack of action within her friend group and how they’ve never come together to talk about racism. She points out the flaws of white liberal feminists and how they can overlook racism. Rev. Dr. TLC asks Alison about the work she had been doing with women and if it connects to her journey on dismantling racism. Alison shares the pain she has had to live with from the result of racism. You can find more on Alison Palmer and her summit that will take place on 21st of September at


00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:12.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, let me start that again welcome to the dismantle racism show where our goal is to uncover dismantle and eradicate racism.

00:01:12.600 --> 00:01:29.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And to create a world where racial equity is the norm, I am your host the Reverend Dr tlc we start each show by doing a meditation and I share with you that the reason why we do, that is because this work of dismantling racism can create.

00:01:30.870 --> 00:01:40.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Many thoughts and emotions within us that are uncomfortable that sometimes create anxiety just create a range of emotions and we need to.

00:01:40.860 --> 00:02:01.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Have a way of centering ourselves and often I start out with having you to find your breath today I want to also do something that i've done on a couple of shows before is read a meditation to you from my book, dismantling racism healing separation from the inside out.

00:02:02.430 --> 00:02:15.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I began each chapter of the book with a meditation one because, as I said, it is very important for us to Center ourselves if we are going to do this deep work of changing the status quo.

00:02:15.810 --> 00:02:31.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I also do it because I believe that dismantling racism is a sacred commitment it really involves us going into a place that's higher than ourselves to do this work to understand.

00:02:32.160 --> 00:02:47.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why we do this work and that we're connected to one another and that we're connected to something greater than ourselves so I want to share with you the meditation that is before Chapter seven of the book.

00:02:48.060 --> 00:03:02.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I invite you, if you were to just ground yourself, as always, to find your breath and take a big breath in and just hold it for a second and then to release that breath slowly.

00:03:03.660 --> 00:03:26.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And then to find your natural rhythm of breathing where you will find your sacred intelligence that part of you that manifest the best part of you, and it helps you to help others to manifest their greatness so just breathe in and out connecting with your divine wisdom.

00:03:27.570 --> 00:03:29.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I invite you to hear these words.

00:03:31.200 --> 00:03:37.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: limitless expansive creative and ever best sent one.

00:03:38.790 --> 00:03:45.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This world can seem so vast and the problems and the task before me, can be overwhelming.

00:03:46.770 --> 00:03:57.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But what I remember that you are me, and I am you I embrace my capacity to create and be the change, I want to see in the world.

00:03:58.710 --> 00:04:07.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When I engage in personal transformation, the way unfolds for me to shift my family community and the world.

00:04:09.450 --> 00:04:21.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I don't have to take on everything all at once, as simply need to take one step at a time touching one life better time or changing one structure at a time.

00:04:22.890 --> 00:04:26.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And each move will impact how the world terms.

00:04:27.180 --> 00:04:32.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So let me not lose hope but rather expand my awareness expand my thinking.

00:04:33.810 --> 00:04:40.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: activate my creativity and celebrate the unlimited possibilities that reside within me.

00:04:41.370 --> 00:04:53.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: May I greet each day with joy exuberance and eagerness may I see the countless ways to use my gifts to manifest greatness within myself, my home and beyond.

00:04:54.840 --> 00:05:07.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: May I then be motivated and encouraged to soar above complacency procrastination fear overwhelm or whatever binds me to share these gifts with the world.

00:05:08.790 --> 00:05:16.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and gratitude, I say thank you, and so it is Shay and.

00:05:24.630 --> 00:05:33.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am often asked the question of how do I recognize and how do I respond to racism.

00:05:34.470 --> 00:05:42.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Racism is something that's a part of the fabric of not just this country but across the world.

00:05:43.260 --> 00:06:00.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And before my guest comes on today we're going to actually be talking about how insidious racism is throughout the world, because she hails from France and so we're going to be talking about this idea of wrestling with the complexities of racism.

00:06:01.260 --> 00:06:15.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But here's what I want to offer to you if you want to begin to recognize racism and how it shows up, I simply invite you to start asking the question.

00:06:16.020 --> 00:06:17.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What am I noticing.

00:06:19.350 --> 00:06:25.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What is happening in my immediate environment, what is happening in my community.

00:06:28.410 --> 00:06:31.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Where are, for instance, the people of color.

00:06:32.760 --> 00:06:43.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why are they absent from certain situations and not others, these are similar things that I talked to you about before but began to look at the tapestry.

00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:54.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If you're watching a movie what are you noticing in that movie what are you noticing about the stereotypes that are in that movie.

00:06:56.460 --> 00:06:59.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What are you noticing about the way people show up.

00:07:01.590 --> 00:07:14.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it's really about becoming aware and then asking questions after you are aware, what do I need to know that I don't all ready, no.

00:07:16.050 --> 00:07:30.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We can't go into a situation, assuming that we know everything that there is to know, even if we've done this work, for years I learned new things, all the time, but it's really about the questioning and then.

00:07:31.380 --> 00:07:36.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Once you ask one question more questions will began to unfold for you.

00:07:39.210 --> 00:07:49.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And then, when you're asking those questions began to look for patterns, because we might see something that happens, it will say is that races.

00:07:50.250 --> 00:08:04.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There is a a sitcom that I absolutely love and it no longer comes on the air in prime time but i've gone back and I started watching just streaming it.

00:08:05.970 --> 00:08:11.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I knew that these things were happening at the time that I was watching.

00:08:11.880 --> 00:08:20.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The sitcom as a matter of fact, it was something that I gave to my students to analyze when I was teaching a course and they started pointing out.

00:08:20.670 --> 00:08:32.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: All of these things about the sitcom the ways in which it was very it had a lot of stereotypes in it and so i'm noticing, as I go back through the sitcom.

00:08:32.760 --> 00:08:43.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Just how much the sitcom talks about a person based on where they come from in the world and based on their accent.

00:08:44.280 --> 00:08:52.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And they did it in a comedic way, but what it actually did was it spoke to the various ways that we do that in our world throughout.

00:08:53.340 --> 00:09:00.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So sitcoms have a funny way of doing it right they bring laughter to what we see every single day.

00:09:01.410 --> 00:09:18.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But we must be aware and understand that what folks are laughing It can also be something that causes pain to other people So what do we do with it, perhaps as brought out on the sitcom to make you aware of what you do so that you can change your behavior.

00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:33.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The problem is when we laugh at it, we may not see the seriousness of it, so I just want to invite you to start recognizing what you see in the tapestry, that is surrounding you.

00:09:35.190 --> 00:09:39.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And then, once you see what's happening immediately, then as far reaching.

00:09:41.070 --> 00:09:47.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want you to start paying attention to what are you thinking about when you encounter someone from a different race.

00:09:49.020 --> 00:09:57.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What are your automatic thoughts about that you know I people always say I don't see color which there's a danger in that same color.

00:09:58.530 --> 00:10:06.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or believing that you don't see color because then you don't recognize people's differences and you think the world should operate based on one standard.

00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:17.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Which is usually whiteness it is so insidious this idea of light being supreme So if we want to pay attention.

00:10:18.150 --> 00:10:34.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To what's going on around us, it will help us to figure out how do we wrestle with the complexities of racism, how do we begin to confront ourselves about what we see what we do in response to what you see.

00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:46.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I know that it's not always easy for you and that's why i'm offering on July 27, of course, on a webinar not a course.

00:10:46.800 --> 00:10:53.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: A one and a half hour webinar on how to recognize and respond to racism it's a free webinar.

00:10:54.480 --> 00:11:11.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want you to join me so that we can have more and more conversations about recognizing and responding to racism, I know it's not an easy process, but when we have one another to walk this journey with together, it makes it a lot easier.

00:11:12.990 --> 00:11:23.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I absolutely love the fact that today we're going to be talking about racism and how it shows up across the world, because all too often.

00:11:23.550 --> 00:11:30.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I hear people say, well, we don't have that problem in our country even countries of color I will.

00:11:30.570 --> 00:11:47.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: hear people say it's not about color here it's more about class, but I bet you if they took a deep deep look, they would see that the people of the darker hue, even in countries of color are treated very differently than people with lighter skin.

00:11:49.110 --> 00:11:54.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And then, what happens is when those people from other countries if they happen to have lighter skin.

00:11:54.390 --> 00:12:05.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And they are of color they notice when they come here how differently they're treated as well, so it's something that we all need to pay attention to and around the world.

00:12:06.390 --> 00:12:18.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know there's this idea of anti blackness colonial ISM has and continues to be the fuel for the global economy at the expense of people of color.

00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:31.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I will never forget, in one of the graduate programs, I was in and there was a woman who was my little sister in the program she came from another country, and she said to me.

00:12:32.010 --> 00:12:40.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When I asked her what what was the opinion of people of color from her country, she said, oh my mother told me don't talk to black people.

00:12:40.380 --> 00:12:49.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When I come to this country and yet it's been black people who've been more friendly to me than other folks and who've been braced me.

00:12:50.400 --> 00:12:56.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so today i'm so delighted that we have a London native who now lives in.

00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:06.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: France, Dr allison Palmer who will be joining us after the break because we're going to discuss the global and the social impact.

00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:16.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of colonial ISM and the intersection with race we're going to explore how white liberal feminist perspective, from a personal point of view and belief systems.

00:13:16.770 --> 00:13:32.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And behaviors can fund a lead fundamentally continue a racist legacy and so i'm delighted that she's joining us today because really it's going to be more of a discussion we're going to just dig in and.

00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:47.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: see where the conversation goes today and talk a little bit about her journey, but I do want to introduce Dr allison Palmer to us, she is a business coach who partners with courageous women.

00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:49.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: really want to change the world.

00:13:50.070 --> 00:14:01.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She has supported thousands of women to bring their message to the world and she's committed to co creating transformation through both what we share and how we share it.

00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:24.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She is so passionate that she does these online summits which i've been a part of and she'll be talking about one of those that's coming up soon and so she is an award winning author creative life dancer and mom and again she lives in France so Dr allison welcome to the show.

00:14:25.350 --> 00:14:30.720 Alison Palmer: i'm so delighted to be here Karen i'm looking forward to this very much.

00:14:31.560 --> 00:14:46.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So when we come back, we are going to just jump in and dig into this conversation of colonialism, but we really need to take a break, right now, this is the dismantle racism show i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc.

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00:17:01.830 --> 00:17:26.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: i'm back today with my guest Dr allison Palmer again allison welcome to the show, and I really want to get started with you are now living in France, but you grew up in London so talk to me a little bit about your upbringing and how colonialism fit in to your upbringing, a bit.

00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:39.210 Alison Palmer: yeah sure i'm delighted to do that and so just to correct you Okay, I spent a long time, living in London in the UK, but I grew up 100 miles west of there.

00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:52.380 Alison Palmer: And and spent all my formative years that and it's in a town called Chapman and it's it's an incredibly beautiful place, but it is.

00:17:52.830 --> 00:18:09.150 Alison Palmer: It has a strong polonium legacy is predominantly whites and when I lived there, it was you know that was like 99.9% white middle class people who's very aware of.

00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:31.920 Alison Palmer: That they were they were very special in the world and that's what I kind of grew up in with all of that, coming in, there was a neighboring town there's only two big towns in the whole area, the other time was looked down upon by the time i'm up and in that time that time had adult.

00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:36.540 Alison Palmer: So it was actually grew up as.

00:18:37.590 --> 00:18:41.430 Alison Palmer: Around the votes and a large part of that was.

00:18:42.450 --> 00:18:54.810 Alison Palmer: slavery, in fact, a few years ago, when there was a big riots there and I know that was that was in another town, in fact, which had a similar a similar.

00:18:55.110 --> 00:19:01.770 Alison Palmer: History, but I just shared with you about it because it's kind of the same kind of experience that this other time, pasta had.

00:19:02.130 --> 00:19:14.700 Alison Palmer: So the town restore that i'm going to share with me, which was just a little bit further out and another area they there was a very important white man who, whose wealth came from plantations.

00:19:15.930 --> 00:19:19.110 Alison Palmer: With slaves and he.

00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:41.730 Alison Palmer: put a lot of money into developing this massive statue of him by the dots and I had no idea about his past at all I knew the name, I was very familiar with it, it was just it's an integral part of that particular city and during the the demonstrations.

00:19:42.750 --> 00:19:52.140 Alison Palmer: about racism people decided to topple that particular statue and it went into the harbor.

00:19:52.560 --> 00:19:59.910 Alison Palmer: Though the Doc down there, as you know, saying you know enough of this we're not going to celebrate this anymore now actually I just have.

00:20:00.390 --> 00:20:12.180 Alison Palmer: To tell you what happened, the people who did that or caught on camera it was one of those moments that fills you with complete joy and an amazement, this is happening, but those people will then prosecuted.

00:20:12.630 --> 00:20:14.760 Alison Palmer: i'm very lucky.

00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:29.400 Alison Palmer: Though it didn't draw much attention, but this is what I grew up in I grew up in this this very it was it was so races, without any awareness of being races.

00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:31.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So.

00:20:33.030 --> 00:20:38.220 Alison Palmer: So it was a very strange place to grow up in there was it was it was very.

00:20:38.970 --> 00:20:55.800 Alison Palmer: insular and very protective of what we it was so colonial it's not true, we are so privileged and we have all of this and we're not going to let anybody in and we're not going to be criticized and we're not certainly not ever going to look at ourselves.

00:20:56.130 --> 00:20:57.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it's not acting on this.

00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:01.290 Alison Palmer: So that is actually the situation, the title again.

00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:02.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When I was.

00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:14.760 Alison Palmer: old enough, I did run away and and went to London, so that I could actually experience what life was really like, and that was a completely different story and.

00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:29.520 Alison Palmer: You know anybody who's been to London possibly not in the tourist areas, but if anybody's lived there at all, it is such a diverse place in every sense that you can think of.

00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:30.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and

00:21:30.330 --> 00:21:32.580 Maybe some rich because of that.

00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.800 Alison Palmer: there's there's so many possibilities and there's so many.

00:21:38.820 --> 00:21:41.130 Alison Palmer: opportunities to explore.

00:21:42.420 --> 00:21:48.780 Alison Palmer: What we have come to consider with our with our belief systems as otherness.

00:21:49.800 --> 00:21:51.720 Alison Palmer: and break that down.

00:21:52.170 --> 00:22:04.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah so so there's a lot to unpack in what you just said, and this this this idea that you know here's the statue of a person who enslaved both great.

00:22:04.560 --> 00:22:13.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And it was something that was celebrated that's very similar to what happens here and that seen a lot of statues coming down and.

00:22:13.620 --> 00:22:25.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Even sometimes we as people of color can say oh it doesn't bother me to see that, because we have gotten so used to it, I mean I think about the confederate flag I grew up.

00:22:25.770 --> 00:22:32.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: 15 minutes from a university where their name their their mascot is the rebel and they're.

00:22:33.690 --> 00:22:49.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The confederate flag flies all throughout that town never wants to bother me or did I even think about the significance of that representation, because I knew where I stood I knew who I was I knew what the south was like.

00:22:50.130 --> 00:23:05.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But nevertheless, when we see those things kind of like what you're saying here, we see those things, and then we operate within that system, because when we think about it, it hasn't been that long ago where.

00:23:06.060 --> 00:23:22.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: People were enslaved it was 159 years ago when you think about everybody in the the well actually i've learned Recently I was on June team, I was thinking that was the time when everyone.

00:23:23.520 --> 00:23:36.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Was you know enslavement was abolished for everyone and I recently found out that that's my truth there was still other people who were in enslaved after that but that's another story, the thing that i'm wondering, for you.

00:23:37.470 --> 00:23:49.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Since you grew up in this sort of class system like that town over there, we kind of looked down on those people what was your first sort of awareness, for you around.

00:23:50.970 --> 00:23:58.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: race and racism, because I don't believe that the tearing down of the statue was your first experience.

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:20.370 Alison Palmer: It certainly wasn't that was very recent and so yeah it's very interesting to try to reach back into my my past because it's quite a long time ago now, and so, racism, I think that that my first awareness of racism was.

00:24:21.600 --> 00:24:22.020 Alison Palmer: there.

00:24:23.190 --> 00:24:39.690 Alison Palmer: So black family moved into my housing estate, which was it was a new housing state and my father and did not know how to cope with that at all.

00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:56.040 Alison Palmer: It was like something that was so shocking to him and I don't know where this this came from, I never really spoke to him about you know when his most of us came from, but he he told us that.

00:24:56.760 --> 00:25:04.140 Alison Palmer: These people were bad that they were you know criminals and it just based on the fact that they were black.

00:25:04.830 --> 00:25:17.430 Alison Palmer: And, and they were very different from us and had very different values and we're going to be very harmful to anything but you know, we had a high value on and and.

00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:26.010 Alison Palmer: And how it actually i'm going to share a little story because it's coming up is there was so I live near a word.

00:25:26.610 --> 00:25:32.640 Alison Palmer: And I love to go in the word as a small child and there was a squirrel's messin achieve.

00:25:33.300 --> 00:25:47.670 Alison Palmer: And my father told me that, so if baby schools, you know what could be cute it to a small kid and my father told me that this man he moved into the area was going to kill these because that's how he was.

00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:57.750 Alison Palmer: going to kill the steak and it is going to be horrible now what made me believe that on why he decided to tell me I don't know but inside of me.

00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:10.020 Alison Palmer: Something didn't quite fit the girl in the family was in my school and it didn't kind of gel with what my dad was telling me so It made me start to feel.

00:26:11.070 --> 00:26:32.040 Alison Palmer: That I didn't know you know my experience of one thing and my my father was telling me something else, and so I think that that was the beginning of me going into and probably a lifelong process of we have a question Okay, what is this someone about where do I fit saying.

00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:34.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: i'm so.

00:26:36.210 --> 00:26:46.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Dear I asked them in it, and it may or may not be relevant for us to talk about what you kind of threw in in your conversation there as well, I ran off to London.

00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:49.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and

00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:56.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Is there anything that you would share, about that that's relevant for this this particular.

00:26:56.490 --> 00:27:07.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: show that we're talking about the ways in which people grow up in their experiences and then listening to what you're saying about your dad because, clearly, when you went to London, it was a very different experience.

00:27:09.390 --> 00:27:26.610 Alison Palmer: um so well I I knew I had to you know go and see what the real world was like because I didn't feel if I live in a real world and and London was scary and exciting and.

00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:32.460 Alison Palmer: So i'm not i'm not quite sure what he wants to know about this.

00:27:32.520 --> 00:27:47.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: No, no it's fine, but since you threw it in there, I didn't know whether there was some connection or something that you wanted to share, about why you chose to go to London and it seems like you want it to go to London for a broader experience.

00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:53.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: than what we had just in your town, so you began to realize, and I know that when you and I talked.

00:27:54.330 --> 00:28:11.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: beforehand that you also talked about books that you were beginning to read that opens you up a little bit more to say wait a minute, the world is kind of different than what i'm experiencing here in even though you had a privileged life, the world was different yeah oh yes.

00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:19.410 Alison Palmer: So um one of the books that I read, because I was in I couldn't stop reading I couldn't stop buying books, with my little bit of pocket money.

00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:26.220 Alison Palmer: And I found in my local bookstore and it's incredulous now that they have this book, it was black light to me.

00:28:26.730 --> 00:28:40.200 Alison Palmer: And I thought it now I don't maybe it came out of that you know questioning from that experience of the family and my father, but I wanted to buy this book and I read it, and I was so.

00:28:41.100 --> 00:28:51.660 Alison Palmer: shocked by what I read and I remember waving it at my parents is I can't believe this, you know just because of the color of your skin you're treated so differently.

00:28:52.200 --> 00:29:00.090 Alison Palmer: And, and they they didn't really want to know, but for me it had, I think that was really the beginning of.

00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:09.630 Alison Palmer: of a much bigger awareness and also the value of learning from books, because that was something that was very.

00:29:10.230 --> 00:29:16.920 Alison Palmer: Accessible as and when I got some London, I have to share this with you and it's been a part of London before brixton.

00:29:17.790 --> 00:29:40.440 Alison Palmer: And they had an amazing library public library, and in that library they had there was penguin and African lighters series, and so I was curious about this, so I started to read these books and novels by key writers, you know.

00:29:41.760 --> 00:29:56.490 Alison Palmer: And they I just devoured them as much as I could just learning, you know different stories different nuances different just different experiences somewhere in colonialism someone not.

00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:13.080 Alison Palmer: And they were just so incredibly importantly and fastest one other example of of how I feel that's such an opportunity for us available to to challenge our own preconceptions.

00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:14.640 Alison Palmer: Even just.

00:30:14.670 --> 00:30:18.900 Alison Palmer: Through the amazing wealth of lighting that surround.

00:30:20.190 --> 00:30:28.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, when we come back Dr allison I really want to jump in a little bit more deeply around the issues of.

00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:37.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know your experience really trying to engage in this work of dismantling racism, but really I want to.

00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:42.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know that you had to kind of disentangled yourself.

00:30:42.600 --> 00:30:51.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: From your upbringing, but then what is the journey been like even trying to move into this area and how do we do tangle ourselves and what we've.

00:30:52.230 --> 00:30:58.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: grown up with with colonialism with you know growing up with privilege, because it hits us even when.

00:30:58.260 --> 00:31:07.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're not thinking about it right, like those those of us who are privileged from different ways right i'm I may be privileged different than differently than you but as it relates to raise.

00:31:07.560 --> 00:31:22.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How, how do you confront it deal with it, how do you get yourself to move forward Those are some of the things that we want to tackle when we come back we're going to take just a quick break this is the dismantle racism show i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc.

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00:31:55.440 --> 00:32:08.970 passionate about the conversation around racism hi i'm Reverend Dr tlc host of the dismantle racism show which airs every Thursday at 11am Eastern on talk radio dot nyc.

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00:33:27.540 --> 00:33:45.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with my guest today, Dr allison Palmer, who is from well who lives in France, right now, she is from England, but you know before the break, we were talking about your upbringing, a bit and your move from.

00:33:46.620 --> 00:34:03.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Your hometown to London and now things just kind of open up for you talks a little bit about how you have engaged in the work of dismantling racism and maybe let's talk about what some of the challenges have been yeah sure.

00:34:03.990 --> 00:34:21.330 Alison Palmer: um well I think i'm actually think that it's the process is always ongoing and changing for all of us Okay, and I think when I when I got to London in my 20s and early 30s before my kids were born.

00:34:21.750 --> 00:34:35.190 Alison Palmer: Sick things seem to be really clear cut you know this was a racist in just race racial justice, and this was not, and so you know let's protest about this and.

00:34:36.330 --> 00:34:53.370 Alison Palmer: You know let's go and do the vigil outside South Africa House against apartheid didn't see it went back quite a long way and let's do all these things that seem very when when you're young we just seen okay and doing go and do this because we've got this very sort of.

00:34:54.450 --> 00:35:02.670 Alison Palmer: activated clear cut way of looking at things perhaps and i'm really going to just speak for myself as I got older.

00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:08.760 Alison Palmer: And i've understood the complexities more and how absolutely ingrained it was.

00:35:09.090 --> 00:35:21.180 Alison Palmer: and still is, because then I didn't have that awareness so looking back i'm still thinking about this today, so when I was going on marches and arguing with people all over the place.

00:35:22.050 --> 00:35:34.830 Alison Palmer: There were a few things going on there one was that I wasn't actually engaging in any dialogue, really, it was just my point of view and so.

00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:51.120 Alison Palmer: That of, even though I felt fueled by some righteousness in there, I wasn't aware that in fact me just going in somewhere and say this is my this is wrong that's me just being part of the system again.

00:35:51.450 --> 00:36:06.870 Alison Palmer: and imposing my own solution on things I didn't have that sort of awareness and I did not have the awareness of how like I said how many brains racism is throughout.

00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:26.130 Alison Palmer: The whole organization of everything the whole history that we have when we look back at how history is taught what's left out of history and the beliefs, that we have, and I really thought Okay, we change that law, then things will change, you know everything will change.

00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:30.030 Alison Palmer: And you know we know that's not the case.

00:36:31.170 --> 00:36:31.620 Alison Palmer: and

00:36:32.790 --> 00:36:46.230 Alison Palmer: The consequence of understanding more about the complexities, I think, had quite a lot quite a big effect upon me in that it made me feel like I don't know how to engage and.

00:36:46.680 --> 00:36:47.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What to do.

00:36:48.030 --> 00:36:55.680 Alison Palmer: i'm saying my moved from London, where, where I was much more on an everyday.

00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:20.970 Alison Palmer: basis, I was much more you know fighting the fight we can say in my everyday life, but when I moved to France and it very rudely and it's France is another as has another way of organizing and denying it's racism so me that was something again to to try to understand.

00:37:23.130 --> 00:37:27.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so I want to just ask you to pause just for a second because you say a lot of stuff.

00:37:28.770 --> 00:37:30.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In and I just want our.

00:37:31.350 --> 00:37:37.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Our listeners, to be able to soak in what you're saying, because you're saying a lot of important.

00:37:38.160 --> 00:37:45.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: pieces here and one i'm drawn to your your discussion about how i'm in there marching.

00:37:46.470 --> 00:37:55.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: On marching and I think this is the solution, this one thing is the solution but it's not it's more complex than that, and so this really speaks.

00:37:56.160 --> 00:38:12.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To, particularly for those people who were marching in 2020 who were out there and they were so upset about police brutality and that's what they focused on right, but the system is more.

00:38:13.470 --> 00:38:17.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Racist than a police system and not every police.

00:38:18.600 --> 00:38:23.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: policeman or organization whatever it's not a racist system or.

00:38:24.210 --> 00:38:36.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well it's built on a system of racism, but not every individual is there, actively practicing being racist, so I just want to acknowledge that but it's also in what you're saying.

00:38:37.740 --> 00:38:39.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Is that it takes more than just the marching.

00:38:40.680 --> 00:38:52.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It takes the deeper understanding of how insidious racism is, but what I also hear, or at least maybe it's my own hearing because of the work that I do is that.

00:38:52.470 --> 00:39:03.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: there's a need to know more, and then to do more, you see, you can go out there and you can March, and it could be a one time thing, there will be people 20 years from now telling their children.

00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:12.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I marched during a black lives matter movement because, do you know how many people who will say to me they marched with Dr king, or they were out there marching because the civil rights stuff.

00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:27.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's great if you have made it then your practice to figure out how you continue to dismantle racism, and so I really appreciate you addressing this issue of wait a minute.

00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:39.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it's more complex than that and, secondly, the other thing is, is that there's also a need for you to at least listening and have a dialogue with the other side you see.

00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:51.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: oftentimes people don't want to have a dialogue, they only want their way of thinking, and if you don't have a dialogue you can't possibly understand what that other person.

00:39:51.780 --> 00:40:05.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is going through what they are even bringing into the conversation right, because we all have our own personal histories, that we have to disentangle and then we have the history that we're born with in whatever country.

00:40:05.730 --> 00:40:23.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Or, and even just in the world right, so I appreciate you sharing the marching piece, and what I wonder is you know you've just now transition them from moving from there to France and and and that setting is very different so.

00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:39.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Are you finding it more challenging to engage in the work of dismantling racism, now that youth again now moved out of out of a place that was really culturally diverse to a place this now back to being more of saying this.

00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:40.890 yeah.

00:40:42.030 --> 00:40:55.710 Alison Palmer: For sure I really have and and it's a question that is that influenced me all the time, you know if i'm, and this is a really important thing, because it was the question if i'm not doing anything.

00:40:56.910 --> 00:41:20.550 Alison Palmer: Am I being complicit if i'm sitting in my wondering about what would be appropriate or exactly how I can do things and i'm just time is going by year after year, and what does that say, am I then by my by my silence or by my inaction just inadvertently.

00:41:21.630 --> 00:41:26.940 Alison Palmer: condoning the existing paradigms that we're we're all living.

00:41:27.870 --> 00:41:38.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, can I can I just speak to that for a minute, because I think it does right and here's how I would explain it beverly Daniel tatum who wrote the book.

00:41:38.460 --> 00:41:47.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria talks about in her book being on this moving walkway when you're in the airport.

00:41:48.060 --> 00:41:58.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And that you can either stand to the right and allow other people to continue to go by and they're going towards this big system of racism.

00:41:59.040 --> 00:42:05.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: everybody's going in the same direction, some people are standing still going in it, and some people are moving towards it.

00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:15.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But she also says, or you could be the person is going to turn around and buck the system you're going to be pushing up against something, because she says that it really has to be an active choice.

00:42:16.530 --> 00:42:28.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To really engage in this work and so to me when you're just when you're standing still or if you're going ahead, fully into it, but not changing any of the behaviors.

00:42:28.560 --> 00:42:42.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are perpetuating a system of racism now, I do believe, though, you said something that was really critical and that is thinking about how to engage in this work.

00:42:43.230 --> 00:42:55.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We should always think about what steps we need to take I call it our sacred intelligence right at that going inward to kind of figure out what is my next move.

00:42:56.250 --> 00:43:09.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But while you're trying to figure out what your next move is going to be, we can also do the little things in our communities, we can have the conversations with other people from.

00:43:10.050 --> 00:43:13.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Our Community or even within our families, so that.

00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:24.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Even though it may feel like we're sitting still we actually are disrupting a system and that's what I think is important for people to know is, because.

00:43:25.080 --> 00:43:39.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You don't have to be out here marching are going in to change a law to do the work of dismantling racism, but I believe that I, and I would love for you, I know, we do have to take a quick break, but if you could just.

00:43:40.650 --> 00:43:42.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If you could speak to.

00:43:43.950 --> 00:44:00.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In addition to the contemplation piece like this idea of complacency, I know we have to take a quick break, but I want you to to to kind of speak to what is your thinking around you know white liberals and complacency with this work right, left to speak Batman yeah.

00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:15.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, I guess that means your your will will speak about it after we come back from the break and I wanted you to kind of chime in, but I think your ideas better one let's take a quick break and we'll be right back okay.

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00:46:15.240 --> 00:46:25.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with my guest today, Dr allison Palmer and we have been talking about colonialism and how racism is really just ingrained in our society so before the break.

00:46:25.560 --> 00:46:39.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I was asking you to think about and to talk about a really white liberalism and complacency, how are you finding that to show up and hasn't shown up in your life on a personal level.

00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:44.310 Alison Palmer: yeah and I think that this is a really big issue, to be honest.

00:46:46.140 --> 00:46:55.620 Alison Palmer: I was seeing happened really thinking about it, because when I was when I was in my early 20s and I lived in London.

00:46:56.070 --> 00:47:05.970 Alison Palmer: And I was really sort of really embracing the women's movement and we had I joined women's consciousness raising whoo.

00:47:06.600 --> 00:47:22.920 Alison Palmer: And we got together every week and we discussed what was going on in the world in London or for us personally all about raising our consciousness as women, and what that meant to us and.

00:47:23.340 --> 00:47:37.110 Alison Palmer: It was very, very powerful and I have been reflecting upon is that I have never ever come across anything that is similar amongst any of my sons and.

00:47:38.040 --> 00:47:47.880 Alison Palmer: That is about raising consciousness about racism and race never ever okay I studied things at university.

00:47:48.630 --> 00:47:54.960 Alison Palmer: But never just as a way of US coming together to actually talk about these issues.

00:47:55.470 --> 00:48:07.200 Alison Palmer: And the truth is i've been reflecting on what this might be like, because I think white liberal feminists and i'm going to just really i'm really I really want to talk about my own perspective because.

00:48:07.620 --> 00:48:26.340 Alison Palmer: I don't really know if it's the same for others i'm assuming that it probably is but we kind of think that we've done a lot of work and that we are not racist or we don't want to be aware, for racism and we challenge it whenever it comes up in our existence.

00:48:27.720 --> 00:48:35.400 Alison Palmer: The reality is that we don't actually explore how we are how deeply the racism.

00:48:36.600 --> 00:48:54.900 Alison Palmer: is affecting us as human beings, and we we just make this assumption, and so we never we never talked about it, we never ever talk about it amongst ourselves, so if there was a consciousness raising group that you know women organize.

00:48:55.740 --> 00:49:16.170 Alison Palmer: That was to actually explore this being very vulnerable and being very willing to take off the layers because I think we buried it when deeply inside and to the extent of actually, I feel that it's so harmful to us all as individuals.

00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:30.150 Alison Palmer: And we have learned through the centuries to to not address it as white women and even as white liberal women, we have learned, not to address it.

00:49:30.540 --> 00:49:54.300 Alison Palmer: And we squashed it down and the pain, I believe, of that as human beings is almost like a screen that hasn't come out and it's almost like it's so frightening about what that might mean to explore that but I think we continue to pretend that we found all handled and then.

00:49:54.840 --> 00:49:58.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But it sounds like a perfect group for you, so why haven't you started this group.

00:50:00.930 --> 00:50:01.380 Alison Palmer: yeah.

00:50:01.590 --> 00:50:05.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, I mean it sounds like it's that it would be something.

00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:18.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's critical, so I know allison I want to make sure that we get a chance, like this, I know that you do do a lot of work around bringing out and amplifying the voice of women.

00:50:18.660 --> 00:50:30.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And you do I mean obviously if you've had any I guess during your summit, you are dealing with racism on some level and so um have you found that.

00:50:32.010 --> 00:50:41.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In your wrestling with your own wrestling because this is really about your own inner work that we're talking about here right, just as it is for all of us, we all need to do.

00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:53.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Our inner work because that translates into the outer world, from my perspective, so have you found that that even though you haven't developed this racial consciousness group.

00:50:53.610 --> 00:51:08.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that the work that you're doing with women to elevate that platform, have you found that you've been able to really at least have an offering for dismantling racism.

00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:36.120 Alison Palmer: I feel, to some extent I to some extent, yes and there's much more work to be done in this field and in fact I am in discussion with somebody else another speaker on my summit, who and we're exploring whether we can create something to actually you know take this further together and.

00:51:37.260 --> 00:51:42.450 Alison Palmer: But there, there is so much work to be done in this field and.

00:51:43.710 --> 00:51:57.300 Alison Palmer: In my fingertips that you see what I think what it means, from my perspective, is it needs this environment that feels very safe, so that people can start to come out from under.

00:51:57.720 --> 00:52:06.300 Alison Palmer: Wherever they we've been hiding and to to really be more humble in this process.

00:52:06.810 --> 00:52:23.700 Alison Palmer: To be open to explore to listen and to contribute and to be open to see where these kind of conversations go me i'm not going with them with an agenda.

00:52:24.060 --> 00:52:46.080 Alison Palmer: And not going with that i'm going to come out as this perfect person, because we know, nobody is but also like you said right at the very beginning to to go in i'm very aware of our spiritual dimension and that we are here, we are all on this planet, together, and you know.

00:52:47.100 --> 00:53:06.570 Alison Palmer: This this pain for everybody, whilst we are continuing to to perpetuate racism, there is pain for everyone, and so I feel that there's a great opportunity again for us to start exploring what that really means for us.

00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:17.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And, and I think you're saying something critical, though, in terms of their being paid for everyone, because most often I don't think that white people connect that pain.

00:53:18.600 --> 00:53:36.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because they just see it as well that's really not my issue, and I can avoid it so what would you say what would be the one or two things that you would identify as a white woman would be the pain that you experience as a result of racism.

00:53:36.750 --> 00:53:55.020 Alison Palmer: I would say, one is knowing that I am contributing that actually my very existence is due to centuries of racism, that is, one massive pain Okay, that is, like something that is, that is.

00:53:56.910 --> 00:54:00.510 Alison Palmer: Just shocking it's totally shocking on a daily basis.

00:54:01.980 --> 00:54:18.600 Alison Palmer: Another one is just you know if we're thinking about how do we make transformation in the world, how do we actually bring about a world that we really like would like to live in and you said to be the change we want to want to see in the world and.

00:54:19.980 --> 00:54:21.600 Alison Palmer: How do we me is.

00:54:22.680 --> 00:54:38.040 Alison Palmer: How can we actually expect that or anticipated to come about if we are not contributing to the dismantling of of things that we feel are.

00:54:40.380 --> 00:54:42.090 Alison Palmer: That should need to be dismantled.

00:54:43.380 --> 00:54:57.300 Alison Palmer: And so, while we're doing that we know, while we're not doing that, we know that we are actually contributing to not just perpetuating what we've got now the pains of everyday life, right now, and the only.

00:54:58.590 --> 00:55:06.870 Alison Palmer: The separation, I feel the distancing the fear that we set up through dispensing through fathering and.

00:55:08.730 --> 00:55:19.920 Alison Palmer: we're creating creating a future that is not the future that we want, and so this I feel is another massive pain that everybody is experiencing.

00:55:20.430 --> 00:55:33.480 Alison Palmer: Looking forward i'm thinking you know I feel hopeless or less or helpless and how do I, let me explore this, I think this is the thing, let me, let me acknowledge that I feel this.

00:55:34.290 --> 00:55:52.050 Alison Palmer: helplessness at this current moment, and so let me then explore what this means and how I can actually feel into my own contribution, however, even if it's small or huge you know what can I do.

00:55:52.890 --> 00:56:00.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I really appreciate those two things that you're saying, and I think most people have to be in a place of consciousness to feel that we are.

00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:11.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: near the end of our show, and I want to invite you, could you tell us the name of your summit that you have coming up, and when that summit will be so that people can be on the lookout for it.

00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:19.980 Alison Palmer: yeah this summit is it's got a working title at the moment phones hags and elder wiseman of power.

00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:30.810 Alison Palmer: And it's coming out in September 21 so you know you can find out about that, but i've also there's also the transformation summit, which was.

00:56:31.230 --> 00:56:45.330 Alison Palmer: You know, you went in last as well, and actually I don't know if I can offer to the readers i've selected for videos from that for your listeners if if that's appropriate for.

00:56:45.330 --> 00:56:47.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Sure sure tell it tell them how they can get.

00:56:48.390 --> 00:56:56.220 Alison Palmer: Okay, so it's also for forward slash telling for videos that's it.

00:56:56.910 --> 00:57:08.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Ah alright, so if you actually type that into the chat will make sure that we have that and if anyone wants to get in touch with me, I would love for you to do that Dr allison please.

00:57:09.660 --> 00:57:16.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Make sure I just want to thank you for being on the show today and for sharing with us your experience.

00:57:17.160 --> 00:57:27.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to thank my listeners today, for being here, I do want to remind you that on July 27 i'm offering a free webinar on how to recognize and respond to racism.

00:57:28.260 --> 00:57:35.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And you can find out more about that as sacred intelligence calm, as well as finding out more information.

00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:52.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In general, about the work that I offer please stay tuned for the conscious consultant hour with Sam liebowitz where he helps you to walk through life with the greatest of ease and joy be well be safe, be encouraged until next time bye for now.

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