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Dismantle Racism with Rev. Dr. TLC

Thursday, June 23, 2022
23
Jun
Facebook Live Video from 2022/06/23 - Healing Racial Trauma

 
Facebook Live Video from 2022/06/23 - Healing Racial Trauma

 

2022/06/23 - Healing Racial Trauma

[NEW EPISODE] Healing Racial Trauma

The audience will gain insight into the long-lasting effects of racial trauma, and how it can be healed with honesty, compassion, accountability, and justice.

Prejudice has birthed more traumatic events and unjust experiences than we could possibly tally. The longstanding emotional, psychological, and sometimes physical scars that these occurrences cause are not easily healed. However, some healing is possible with the powerful combination of truth and the pursuit of justice.⁣⁣

⁣⁣Rev. Dr. TLC once again welcomes Charles Robinson. The last time Charles was a guest, he shared a story of a racist experience that still impacts him. 

Join us to delve into the aftermath of this event and his conversations with those who witnessed it. How does inaction leave wounds? Can perpetrators find redemption? How does all of this contribute to the healing process? 

Facebook: (Charles L Robinson Sr)

LinkedIn: (Charles L. Robinson)

Tune in for this important conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.


Show Notes

Segment 1

Rev. Dr. TLC introduces the topic for today’s episode. She talks about her experience at Howard University and the character she built in those four years. She talks about HBCUs and the lack of appreciation they get when compared to ivy league schools. Rev. Dr. TLC lists off notable alumni from Howard University, including herself. She talks about her experience at Howard University and the character she was able to build while attending. She adds that her daughters each attend HBCUs and how competitive they can be. You cannot find a connectedness at PWI that creates strength and assurance as you can at an HBCU. Rev. Dr. TLC praises the professors at HBCUs and how they push their students for greatness. She encourages her listeners to look at how they perpetuate the belief that whiteness is better.

Segment 2

Rev. Dr. TLC welcomes back her guest Charles Robinson. She continues her conversation about the importance of HBCUs with Charles. Charles attended a PWI but could identify with Rev. Dr. TLC because he had black teachers. They spoke about the array of beauty you can find at HBCUs and how it helps redefine the standard of beauty. Charles shares his experience at a PWI and the racism he endured on and off-campus. He marched in his sophomore year of school during the civil rights movement, which led to change in his community. Before the break, Rev. Dr. TLC and Charles discuss the racial barriers black children face as students.

Segment 3

Charles tells the audience of the incident that occurred on September 16th, 1969. He opens up and shares how he lost an academic year due to racial profiling. Charles was connected to a situation where he was charged with two felonies and a misdemeanor. The charges were eventually dropped, but he still lost a full semester. Charles talks about the memoir that he is working on and how it led him to write an open letter to his football team. Charles contacted one of his teammates, and they had a three-hour conversation about the incident. He says the writing has been therapeutic for him and has been part of the healing process.

Segment 4

Coming back from the break, Rev. Dr. TLC and Charles continue to talk about the open letter to the football team. Charles shares how it was to get in contact with his long-lost teammate. He also mentions how the sudden meeting affected his teammate, Greg. Charles says he plans to meet with Greg again to meet his family. Before the end of the show, Charles talks about his program and how he plans to help others with their healing process. If you want to learn more about Charles, you can find him on Linkedin and Facebook at Charles L. Robinson.


Transcript

00:00:51.900 --> 00:01:04.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: hello, and welcome to the dismantle racism show I am your host the Reverend Dr tlc our goal of the show is to uncover dismantle and eradicate racism.

00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:17.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I really do want to create a world where racial equity is the norm, and you can help me do that by tuning into the show every week and doing your part to dismantle racism in the world.

00:01:18.690 --> 00:01:24.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If we all do our part, I believe it, it really is possible to heal racial separation.

00:01:25.350 --> 00:01:39.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Today, I want to invite us in to talk about how we heal racial trauma that's happened to us in the past, no matter if that past was yesterday, how do we begin to do that, what are the steps that we should take.

00:01:40.350 --> 00:01:48.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But, as always, I want to invite us into this place of centering ourselves and finding our breath, because I think it is important.

00:01:49.140 --> 00:02:06.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: For us to connect with that which gives us life that which helps us to focus and to be mindful that we are here in this earthly realm because we all serve a purpose and that the skin that we're in just happens to be the skin that we're in.

00:02:07.770 --> 00:02:13.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: underneath it all we are soul being we're energy we're spirit.

00:02:14.370 --> 00:02:27.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're just housed in these particular bodies and so let's not it good get it confused with who we are and the purpose for which we are called at this time in place.

00:02:28.830 --> 00:02:37.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, if you would take a moment, if you can to just connect with the ground or the floor beneath you.

00:02:38.940 --> 00:02:50.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connect with the Chair that you're sitting in connect with the outdoors if you're there you're able to view to view the beauty of the earth, the sun.

00:02:51.540 --> 00:02:56.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: hear the birds chirping the wind blowing or even if it's framed Paul.

00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: take a moment to Center yourself.

00:03:01.830 --> 00:03:09.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And to find your breath breathing in and out and with each exhale and inhale.

00:03:10.650 --> 00:03:12.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with the breath of life.

00:03:14.730 --> 00:03:20.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with your divine wisdom and your sacred intelligence.

00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:24.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with that part of you.

00:03:26.190 --> 00:03:35.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That wants the good not only for you, but for everyone connecting with that part of you that honors who you are.

00:03:37.050 --> 00:03:41.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And doesn't allow you to treat anyone else with disrespect.

00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And doesn't allow you to accept this respect.

00:03:48.870 --> 00:03:50.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out.

00:03:52.470 --> 00:03:59.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The knowledge that you are a part of a greater source of energy called love.

00:04:01.260 --> 00:04:03.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And that means that you are love.

00:04:04.710 --> 00:04:06.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And you are loved.

00:04:08.490 --> 00:04:13.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You are created and came into being by something divine.

00:04:16.710 --> 00:04:20.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So breathe in the power of that divine this.

00:04:24.090 --> 00:04:30.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: allowing it to resonate with you that you have the power to change the status quo.

00:04:31.860 --> 00:04:33.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That you are more.

00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:36.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: than who other people define you to be.

00:04:38.100 --> 00:04:47.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you're more than the limitations that you have put on yourself, you are limitless because you have a source for them.

00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:50.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That you can tap into.

00:04:53.580 --> 00:05:04.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That helps you to generate solutions to all of your individual problems and all the problems that we share together.

00:05:05.760 --> 00:05:13.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out, knowing that, in addition to being connected to this divine wisdom, you are connected.

00:05:15.090 --> 00:05:16.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: With others.

00:05:17.730 --> 00:05:24.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because we coexist together and we are part of a greater shared humanity.

00:05:25.950 --> 00:05:28.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You do not walk this journey alone.

00:05:30.450 --> 00:05:42.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So breathe in and out the knowledge that you are held, and you are supported by divine wisdom, the sacred the universe source.

00:05:44.070 --> 00:05:44.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Earth.

00:05:45.990 --> 00:05:47.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and your fellow country.

00:05:49.770 --> 00:05:52.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out.

00:05:53.310 --> 00:05:59.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: recognizing that the power of one contributes to the power of community.

00:06:01.980 --> 00:06:04.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out.

00:06:05.670 --> 00:06:13.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Knowing that you have everything within you everything you need to dismantle racism.

00:06:14.940 --> 00:06:16.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And to change the status quo.

00:06:20.220 --> 00:06:21.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in.

00:06:22.080 --> 00:06:24.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: sight out unless again.

00:06:30.690 --> 00:06:35.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The other day I was looking on social media, and I saw a post.

00:06:36.750 --> 00:06:46.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And the post was about a young black woman who had been accepted, to all of the Ivy league's.

00:06:48.270 --> 00:07:06.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and ended up itself that's a big deal because to be accepted into college is fascinating is great so great achievement and I know that she had to accomplish a lot to get accepted into college period and then to be accepted into the Ivy league.

00:07:08.430 --> 00:07:09.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: was another feat.

00:07:11.280 --> 00:07:13.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I actually was troubled by it.

00:07:14.220 --> 00:07:20.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Not for her because i'm happy for her, but I was troubled by it, for this reason.

00:07:21.780 --> 00:07:28.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Is that we don't value value historically black colleges and universities in the same way.

00:07:30.150 --> 00:07:33.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Unless you have attended an hbc you.

00:07:34.770 --> 00:07:48.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It is rare that I see people posting my daughter got accepted to most of the hbc us because some of them are specifically for those who identify as male.

00:07:49.890 --> 00:08:07.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it's rare that I see people doing that, and what I also run into are those individuals who think that hbc us are not good enough, so they don't even want to apply to those and that disturbs me greatly.

00:08:08.460 --> 00:08:19.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because what that is, if you are a person of color and you think that hbc us not good enough for you to go to that's called internalized racism.

00:08:21.180 --> 00:08:32.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You are perpetuating a racist system that says white is superior and that white is supreme and if you are a non black person.

00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:45.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And you feel the same way it's not internalized racism, but it's racism, nevertheless, because you're saying that only white colleges are superior and I beg to differ.

00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:57.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I want to share something with you, because for a lot of you, you don't even know what an htc you is some of you, this may be your first time hearing about it.

00:08:57.450 --> 00:09:11.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I know i've talked to many people over the last couple of years, who will say well wasn't hbc you that's a problem ended up itself that folks don't even know that their colleges for people of color.

00:09:13.260 --> 00:09:18.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And hbc you in particular, I want you to understand why came into being.

00:09:19.680 --> 00:09:37.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It came into being because we were denied access into white colleges, not because we were not educated enough to get into those places, but we were denied access because black people could not go to college.

00:09:38.970 --> 00:09:55.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Could not connect with in the same areas as white people were not allowed to sit in the same classrooms or they thought that we were dumb or stupid or perhaps like they thought in North Carolina because it's actually.

00:09:56.970 --> 00:10:16.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: One of their laws in 1830 they fear that the teaching of slaves, and I would say, enslaved people today the teaching of slaves to read and write has a tendency to excite this satisfaction in their minds and to produce insurrection and rebellion.

00:10:17.910 --> 00:10:28.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's why they didn't want us to go to school, but thankfully, there were individuals who founded schools on our behalf.

00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:51.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so shortly after the emancipation proclamation several schools were formed to educate us so they were put into place, because we were denied what we should have had a right to and it's really a slap in the face today to think that those schools are unworthy to attend.

00:10:52.350 --> 00:10:53.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I beg to differ.

00:10:55.320 --> 00:11:21.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I attended, with some, including myself, believe to be the number one hbc you and that's how it university, it was founded in 1867 shortly after the emancipation proclamation just a few years after that and it established a law school, the first black law school in 1872 that's huge.

00:11:23.970 --> 00:11:35.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And here's the thing here's some of the notable people who've gone to Howard university maybe you recognize a few of these names Supreme Court justice thurgood Marshall.

00:11:36.330 --> 00:11:48.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The Honorable David dinkins representative allies, your comments diplomat Andy young attorney and advisor to President Clinton Vernon Jordan.

00:11:49.140 --> 00:12:02.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: stokely carmichael diane Nash Jesse Norman ossie Davis Roberta flack zora neale hurston Paul Laurence Dunbar toni morrison.

00:12:03.030 --> 00:12:12.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And then of course they're the entertainers that you know, like P diddy to rise up henson felicia rashad debbie Allen.

00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:32.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And of course we would not forget the black panther chadwick bozeman and the Vice President of these United States of America kamala Harris, and of course the one and only the Reverend Dr T lc.

00:12:33.180 --> 00:12:43.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Oh, oh us a bright brilliant people who went to an hbc you Howard university the Mecca.

00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:54.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And there's something that we gained at those universities that we won't gain by going to a pw is predominantly white university.

00:12:55.230 --> 00:13:07.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And that is I stand on the strength of my ancestors, and it is fully fully indoctrinated in me of who, I am as a person of color.

00:13:08.430 --> 00:13:29.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I know from those i've talked to ED teaching at a pw I the students of color don't get that connectedness they don't get to have this assurance of who they are, as a matter of fact, their race is always front and Center and when you go to an hbc you, that is not the case.

00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:39.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because it takes race almost completely off the table doesn't mean that we don't have some things that we deal with but here's The thing that I want you to know.

00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:46.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: getting into an hbc you is just as competitive.

00:13:48.060 --> 00:14:00.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: As going to a pw I I know for a fact both of my girls go to hbc us, and I know for one of them, in particular the school that she goes to the year that she applied.

00:14:01.560 --> 00:14:11.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There were over 9000 students who applied, but they only let in roughly about 600 students, so you tell me if that school is not competitive.

00:14:12.900 --> 00:14:18.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And the other one wild I don't have the stats on her year I know that is just as competitive.

00:14:19.650 --> 00:14:27.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I want you to think about it, when you when you say that my child can't go to an hbc you or it's better.

00:14:28.380 --> 00:14:37.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That they go to a white school, I want you to think about the value of that education at least you think that i'm saying it because I don't have experience.

00:14:37.950 --> 00:14:58.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: With one of the ideas I went to Yale university for my graduate degree, and I will tell you that the education that I got at Howard university compares and maybe exceeds the education that I got at Yale university, had I not gone to Howard first.

00:14:59.610 --> 00:15:01.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To build me up.

00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:18.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To allow me to know the strength of who I am and where I come from my experience at Yale might have been totally different, but I also know the difference between the instructors that I had at Howard, who expected the most from me.

00:15:19.410 --> 00:15:33.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Who are not going to let me get away with being mediocre who were going to see me in the classroom and not ignore me who were going to call on me, because they wanted to bring out the best in me.

00:15:34.290 --> 00:15:42.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's what gave me my foundation to go to every school that i've gone to set Howard university and Yale being one of them.

00:15:44.430 --> 00:16:01.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I know what students of color experience when they go to predominantly white schools and i'm grateful that I didn't have to experience that because I could focus solely on becoming the best of who of who I am so I want to encourage you.

00:16:02.640 --> 00:16:11.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To look at the ways in which you perpetuate wait whiteness in which you perpetuate a racist society, I think, in that white is always better.

00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:23.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and valuing those institutions valuing the standards that come from other cultures and not just white.

00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Racism internalized or otherwise is very subtle.

00:16:30.870 --> 00:16:37.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and every day we perpetuate it and it's up to us to decide to do our part.

00:16:38.490 --> 00:16:39.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to dismantle racism.

00:16:42.930 --> 00:17:02.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Our show today we're going to be talking about healing racial trauma, we have to take a quick break and when we return, I want to welcome back my guest from a few weeks ago, Charles robison we'll be right back this is the dismantle racism show i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc.

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00:19:17.250 --> 00:19:25.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with the dismantle racism show, and today we're talking about healing racial trauma, we know that prejudice has birth.

00:19:25.590 --> 00:19:39.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: traumatic events and unjust experiences that they had their toll on us and their long standing emotional and psychological scars as a result of it, and today we're bringing it back to our show.

00:19:40.770 --> 00:19:53.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Charles Robinson, who was with us before he told us about an event that actually happened at his school as a black student I believe in the sixth season, so today is going to come back.

00:19:53.490 --> 00:20:08.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and share that story with us again but talk to us about some things that have occurred since that time, but Charles robison just to tell you a little bit about him has extensive training and experience and Labor employment law and.

00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:17.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: He actually is a former administrative law judge a special master for the ports, he has done a great deal of work.

00:20:18.930 --> 00:20:30.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: With continuing education as a matter of fact, and he is a facilitator and a program leader for landmark worldwide he's done much, much more and he's in the process.

00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:43.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of developing a six week course which I hope he will tell us about on the show as well, but I want to welcome back to the show Charles robison Charles Thank you so much for joining us today.

00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.990 Charles Robinson: Thank you for having me again I I really enjoyed our conversation, a few weeks ago.

00:20:50.460 --> 00:21:00.660 Charles Robinson: Talking about this subject, and not just talking but doing whatever I can do like you said everybody can do something that's the famous line from one of my my.

00:21:01.710 --> 00:21:07.890 Charles Robinson: closest friends Joe Madison who's a talk show host and that's his slogan everybody can do something.

00:21:09.810 --> 00:21:18.900 Charles Robinson: I just really enjoy what you're doing I really respect and acknowledge you dealing with this subject.

00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:27.930 Charles Robinson: relentlessly and you know, I trust that and I actually know that we're going to have a breakthrough.

00:21:29.100 --> 00:21:33.150 Charles Robinson: With with race and so there's just so much to say about it, you know.

00:21:33.810 --> 00:21:35.610 Charles Robinson: My first term paper, I wrote in.

00:21:35.670 --> 00:21:37.920 Charles Robinson: college was on racial prejudice.

00:21:38.820 --> 00:21:47.850 Charles Robinson: At a white I went to I didn't go to hbc you I had an opportunity, my boy scout master who had played football at Tennessee state.

00:21:48.930 --> 00:21:53.430 Charles Robinson: created an opening an opportunity for me to go there and get a scholarship to play football there.

00:21:54.120 --> 00:22:06.090 Charles Robinson: And I thought i'm not gonna I don't want to go to a black college, because the blacks high school across the city, you know, on the other side of the city was the worst high school in the state.

00:22:07.320 --> 00:22:14.190 Charles Robinson: And I I just assumed that a black college would would be inferior as well, I didn't know.

00:22:15.870 --> 00:22:26.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And that's how subtle racism is though right is because we turn on our own, and against ourselves not recognizing the schools was started because we weren't tonight.

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I will tell you it has some of the most.

00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: prestigious, if you will, professors there, I mean because.

00:22:34.950 --> 00:22:44.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We had to earn every single thing as students, no one was giving us anything because expectations were high, but the professors who come there to teach.

00:22:44.730 --> 00:22:56.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they've also had this amazing training, and so I get it, I understand i've had those conversations with people, which is why every chance I get.

00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:04.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I talked to people about going to an hbc you because I know that's the thought my kids knew when they were little.

00:23:05.370 --> 00:23:16.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you're going to hbc you, it was a given you're going to an hbc you and I was married to someone who didn't go to an HP see you as a matter of fact, we had the conversation.

00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:23.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Even after my oldest is like I don't understand why they couldn't just got to a state school that might have been cheaper, it was this this and that.

00:23:23.310 --> 00:23:25.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I said, this is what you need to.

00:23:25.020 --> 00:23:25.800 understand.

00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:40.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: there's something that they get at an hbc you that they will never be able to get at a P wi and it will set them up for the rest of their life and their career, because they will know who they are.

00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:48.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And you can't put a price tag on that plus I knew that education would be outstanding as well, so.

00:23:49.050 --> 00:23:50.280 Charles Robinson: I had a taste of that.

00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:59.130 Charles Robinson: I had a taste of that in my junior high school where the milwaukee public schools went south to recruit black teachers.

00:23:59.370 --> 00:23:59.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: mm hmm.

00:24:00.120 --> 00:24:21.210 Charles Robinson: HP HP see us and those they were the most beautiful women, I mean one reason why we would go to school, just to see these beautiful young black teachers and and, but they were they were excellent at what they taught to and, in fact, for the first time at four point average.

00:24:23.280 --> 00:24:29.460 Charles Robinson: teacher, Mr cousins he made the revolutionary war to life in the classroom.

00:24:29.520 --> 00:24:30.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes.

00:24:30.600 --> 00:24:35.370 Charles Robinson: You know, and he took us to the central library downtown and we did research.

00:24:36.750 --> 00:24:51.030 Charles Robinson: We had a debate team, and we had a chance to do research we're like what seventh, eighth graders That was the first time, which is that outside of the classroom to go, you know and do research.

00:24:52.080 --> 00:24:52.560 Charles Robinson: So you know.

00:24:53.610 --> 00:25:02.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It tells you you're actually said two things that to me are important and one you know when you said, the beautiful women I don't actually take that lightly, and this is why I don't.

00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:11.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because when you go to an htc you, you get to see an array of beauty and if you can identify with it.

00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:18.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and say this is our standard of beauty we don't have to have that other standard of beauty and.

00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:25.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And really and truly you get to see just seeing people who look like you, who are also aspiring.

00:25:25.620 --> 00:25:36.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and doing wonderful things because see if we're not careful, we will believe the lies that were told about black people that were thugs that were robbers that we were we.

00:25:36.930 --> 00:25:44.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Are incarcerate like all of these things and and there's also a myth even about the black and brown folks who are incarcerated.

00:25:44.190 --> 00:25:45.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because many of them are.

00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:48.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: highly educated, maybe not formally.

00:25:49.500 --> 00:26:01.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But when you listen to them can run circles around many of us, and so I don't take it lightly, when you say you went there, and you saw this, but the other thing that that's valuable.

00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:12.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about going to a historically black college is that you get the counter story the counter story of history, which is a component of critical race theory.

00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:14.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Music people have.

00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:26.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Again I say this, a lot on this show, because people understand misunderstand what critical race theory is about, but one of the tenants is so that you get the counter story, and that you don't have to believe.

00:26:27.090 --> 00:26:36.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The hype that's out there you don't have to believe the stories that tell you that more black people are incarcerated because we're criminals know you understand that the law is different.

00:26:37.560 --> 00:26:50.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: For black people, but I don't want to digress on that too much, because I do want to get to something happened to you when you attended your predominantly white university.

00:26:51.450 --> 00:27:09.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That was related to race, so I would love for you to share that story with us and then i'd love you to talk about what has happened since that time, we might have to take a quick break in between you telling those but tell us again what happened to you when you were in school.

00:27:10.620 --> 00:27:16.230 Charles Robinson: First of all, we didn't I didn't get a lot of good counseling, for you know, to prepare me to choose the College.

00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:28.080 Charles Robinson: I had pretty good grades, and I remember my coach said with Charlie you can go anywhere, you want to, and I have been heavily recruited by Dartmouth, I have no idea, you know.

00:27:28.860 --> 00:27:43.080 Charles Robinson: Where dot month was or anything but I believe schools, I am, and I want to stay close to home, so I went to it was Wisconsin State University of whitewater whitewater is a small.

00:27:43.800 --> 00:27:58.890 Charles Robinson: Town about 10,000 population and the College is also about 10,000 and they were heavily recruiting black students, because I guess, they were getting federal a you know, during during the 60s.

00:28:00.060 --> 00:28:04.140 Charles Robinson: And so I ended up going there was about an hour 15 minutes from home.

00:28:06.810 --> 00:28:13.680 Charles Robinson: And when I got there you know, first of all, had the black quarterback controversy, you know because we're not supposed to be.

00:28:14.190 --> 00:28:25.680 Charles Robinson: The thinkers and leaders and pastors because the rap was we couldn't you know think well enough to call a place because they didn't have offensive coordinators back in those days, but.

00:28:26.850 --> 00:28:33.930 Charles Robinson: You know, I was pretty well prepared to play anywhere, really, but you know, and then we had.

00:28:36.090 --> 00:28:46.500 Charles Robinson: A lot of alienation we didn't have like in the in the in the student union, there were there were two two.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:53.550 Charles Robinson: And a jukebox there were two songs one was in between the heart holidays by dion.

00:28:55.800 --> 00:28:56.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why.

00:28:56.430 --> 00:28:59.880 Charles Robinson: dionne Warwick and respect by aretha Franklin.

00:29:01.050 --> 00:29:08.280 Charles Robinson: And we will we will play those two over and over again, but so there were no there was nothing culturally.

00:29:09.510 --> 00:29:10.800 Charles Robinson: or socially that.

00:29:12.210 --> 00:29:21.060 Charles Robinson: attracted us and then, of course, there was the alienation because we were in a lily white environment, many of the people in that area have never seen black people before.

00:29:21.990 --> 00:29:41.460 Charles Robinson: And, and then, so you have this covert and overt racism in the classroom on campus in the town in fact there's a close housing ordinance and whitewater which says that you know it was against the law to rent to people of color.

00:29:42.570 --> 00:29:58.470 Charles Robinson: So we my sophomore year we actually marched on the town, and it was in the 60s, so the civil rights movement was going on there as well, and so, here we are, teenagers right and we're changing legislation.

00:29:58.770 --> 00:30:00.270 Charles Robinson: So they actually they actually.

00:30:00.300 --> 00:30:01.230 Charles Robinson: changed the law.

00:30:02.550 --> 00:30:12.990 Charles Robinson: But my first two years there, it was you know you couldn't get like if you were married graduate student you'd have to commute because you couldn't you couldn't.

00:30:14.130 --> 00:30:15.660 Charles Robinson: rent an apartment in town.

00:30:16.650 --> 00:30:18.510 Charles Robinson: that's the kind of situation we were dealing with.

00:30:18.870 --> 00:30:27.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So Charles I actually i'm glad that you're setting that up to help people to understand what you were walking into even as a student.

00:30:28.860 --> 00:30:38.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: going to school there, this was what was happening in your surrounding area I think it's important for people to understand that these things still happen today.

00:30:38.340 --> 00:30:54.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They may be more subtle, but there are things that we, in our Community, we know and recognize that's happening to us that there are barriers that exist for us that other people don't know about there they have a different name today than they had back then that but they're there.

00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:55.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So we're dealing with that.

00:30:55.830 --> 00:30:59.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: On top of going to school, but Charles, we have to take a quick.

00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:00.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: break, but when we.

00:31:00.090 --> 00:31:17.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: do come back, I want you to specifically tell us about the incident that happened that actually led you to getting arrested and having to leave school so we're going to be right back with the dismantle racism show i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc.

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00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:36.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with the dismantle racism show my guest today is Charles Robinson Charles last time you run the show you told us about an incident that happened to you on your campus would you recap that incident, for us, please.

00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:40.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You are muted Charles.

00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:44.160 Charles Robinson: After watch that.

00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:49.890 Charles Robinson: The night of December 16 1969.

00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:56.550 Charles Robinson: I was sitting in a in a class as an evening class that met from 630 to nine o'clock.

00:33:57.330 --> 00:34:11.400 Charles Robinson: It was a graduate level course that I had special permission to take God, with a psych major and I was taking this course called interview and counseling techniques and I was just so thrilled that you know, I was being allowed to take this this graduate level course.

00:34:12.930 --> 00:34:13.860 Charles Robinson: At the gym.

00:34:15.030 --> 00:34:27.300 Charles Robinson: That same night that was an intramural basketball game between a black freshman group and another group and after the game, there was the fight.

00:34:28.560 --> 00:34:29.130 Charles Robinson: and

00:34:30.180 --> 00:34:33.840 Charles Robinson: Two of the people involved were black females.

00:34:35.100 --> 00:34:40.410 Charles Robinson: And so there was a meeting at the black student Union.

00:34:41.640 --> 00:34:56.220 Charles Robinson: We went from my freshman year of having like 50 black student on campus and then we were allowed to go out and recruit our own black freshman so we actually doubled our numbers, the next year and.

00:34:57.720 --> 00:35:13.470 Charles Robinson: So when that when a lot of these kids you know they were coming from Chicago milwaukee racing you know some of the some of the inner cities and cities surrounding the south eastern area of Wisconsin so.

00:35:14.850 --> 00:35:35.970 Charles Robinson: They had a meeting at the black student Union to actually go downtown to this white fraternities house the fake epsilon house to confront the people they thought were involved in this fight, because keep in mind to two women were involved and so emotions were very, very high.

00:35:37.170 --> 00:35:45.000 Charles Robinson: I wasn't there, of course, i'm sitting in my class, but when I when classes left out, I noticed people were running down Main Street.

00:35:46.140 --> 00:35:49.560 Charles Robinson: toward the five K epsilon fraternity house.

00:35:50.580 --> 00:35:56.040 Charles Robinson: And when I got there that already invaded the House two shots with fire.

00:35:57.090 --> 00:36:00.510 Charles Robinson: And a police officer who noticed me.

00:36:01.560 --> 00:36:09.180 Charles Robinson: asked me to stand with him, because the coach you know the football coach wouldn't want me to be involved that's what he said it's no stand with me.

00:36:10.290 --> 00:36:11.910 Charles Robinson: And so the next day.

00:36:13.140 --> 00:36:14.130 Charles Robinson: i'm suspended.

00:36:15.240 --> 00:36:24.570 Charles Robinson: For my safety and the safety of others i'm banned from campus, and this was at the end of the Semester grades were just about to be released.

00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:35.400 Charles Robinson: I had like a 3.6 on 16 credits which one of my better you know semesters and all of that was lost, and I was faced with.

00:36:36.630 --> 00:36:42.390 Charles Robinson: Two felonies and a misdemeanor for invading this House which I didn't do.

00:36:42.630 --> 00:36:50.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So standing standing with them, you still ended up getting arrested, even though with him and didn't go into the House.

00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:53.520 Charles Robinson: yeah yeah ironically, we had.

00:36:55.590 --> 00:37:03.060 Charles Robinson: A black black lawyer named person Julian person Julian jr his dad was person Julian singer.

00:37:04.170 --> 00:37:06.300 Charles Robinson: Who was a famous scientists.

00:37:06.630 --> 00:37:07.920 Charles Robinson: who invented cortisone.

00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:14.190 Charles Robinson: And, of course, you know cortisone is in most cosmetics and medicines, a lot of them.

00:37:14.490 --> 00:37:27.780 Charles Robinson: Yes, and but Percy was you know, he was a new Grad new last law graduate and it just started his practice and he took on representing all 16 people.

00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:33.750 Charles Robinson: marched and we, and we were being prosecuted by the Attorney general's office.

00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.160 Charles Robinson: You know, which would normally would have been a student handbook matter.

00:37:38.490 --> 00:37:45.060 Charles Robinson: Yes, ended up you know being prosecuted by the State Attorney General.

00:37:45.510 --> 00:37:56.910 Charles Robinson: which was similar to almost exactly one year previously at Wisconsin State University oshkosh where they had approximately 95 black students.

00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:08.850 Charles Robinson: And they sat in on the administration building they were protesting like we were protesting like protests across the country relevant courses and things like that and.

00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:15.930 Charles Robinson: Almost every one every last one of those black students were expelled from school.

00:38:16.830 --> 00:38:19.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, so I want to just pause us for a minute because.

00:38:19.710 --> 00:38:22.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I think people need to understand the history of what is.

00:38:22.620 --> 00:38:33.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What happens here or happened that anytime we've chosen to stand up for ourselves, there have been severe consequences, but I also don't want us to miss out.

00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:42.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That so part of standing up and being courageous to dismantle racism is that there are some sacrifices that come with.

00:38:42.750 --> 00:38:58.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It it doesn't matter what your color is, you have to decide what sacrifices, am I willing to make and those sacrifices are not just for you they're also for the people who come along after you and, thirdly, I want to say this.

00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:08.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you're still standing, despite what happened to you because I think that sometimes people live in this place of fear that if I stand up.

00:39:09.240 --> 00:39:19.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And something happens to me then my life is going to go south, so to speak, even though I really shouldn't use that phrase, because to say going to South means that it's something.

00:39:19.710 --> 00:39:21.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Bad from the south.

00:39:21.150 --> 00:39:23.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I don't believe that you know and.

00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:27.060 Charles Robinson: Malcolm said about South the law of your fat south of the Canadian border yourself.

00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:33.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right so so here's the thing, though, so you're still standing.

00:39:34.740 --> 00:39:41.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So you ended up being expelled from school had a felony charge, but those things were dropped.

00:39:42.690 --> 00:39:54.900 Charles Robinson: Yes, we you know my fraternity we founded a chapter of alpha Phi alpha my freshman year and the alumni chapter kicked in to help pay the.

00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:06.270 Charles Robinson: You know the people were injured would pay them for their medical bills and also for the furniture and things that got broken their fraternity house, so we executed a gentleman's agreement.

00:40:07.080 --> 00:40:14.760 Charles Robinson: And so the charges were were were dropped, however, you know i'm still missing a whole academic year.

00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:35.190 Charles Robinson: Right yeah we were summarily dismissed without any due process right now, you know person Julian is passed away, but now that i'm writing my memoir about that i'm looking back and noticing where the flaws were.

00:40:35.580 --> 00:40:36.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: mm hmm.

00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:37.410 Charles Robinson: And you know.

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:42.480 Charles Robinson: I don't think he should have been trying to represent 16 people bias.

00:40:43.080 --> 00:40:44.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That was probably a lot.

00:40:45.240 --> 00:41:01.080 Charles Robinson: right because I mean if if the facts would have come out that i'm because I could document that i'm sitting in class, you know the teacher gets that the attendance sheet, and of course I could document that I was standing next to the police officer.

00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:06.030 Charles Robinson: But, for some reason, you know that information and we get you know.

00:41:06.900 --> 00:41:08.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ya know noted.

00:41:08.700 --> 00:41:12.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So let me, let me ask you Charles so so since we had the.

00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:26.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: conversation, the last time I know that when you attended school and you played on the football team, you had whenever you traveled a weight room and roommate.

00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:37.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Since our last conversation, you have had some conversations with him and I believe you all that and talk and I don't know if it was 40 years but it's been a long time since you had.

00:41:37.740 --> 00:41:38.700 Charles Robinson: Over 50 years.

00:41:38.790 --> 00:41:51.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Over over 50 years, so I would love for you and I just want to say, we did make an invitation for him to come on this show, so that we could hear both sides of the conversation and to.

00:41:52.860 --> 00:42:10.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: hear you all talk about that healing process and perhaps continue to work out a bit of of the healing but he was unable to be with us today, and his hope is to come again at some time in to come not again but to come in, in the future.

00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:15.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If a schedule allows for it on the show.

00:42:16.560 --> 00:42:27.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Can you tell us what prompted you to reach out to him, I will tell us your relationship with him in college and then tell us what prompted you to reach out.

00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:38.130 Charles Robinson: To Greg was he was a senior my my junior year and he was a two time all American got drafted by the Denver broncos he was a great.

00:42:38.580 --> 00:42:49.380 Charles Robinson: ballplayer but he was a great human being, oh as well, he was one of the people I could relate to on the team, because even on the team, they were races, I remember on a bus once.

00:42:50.550 --> 00:42:56.130 Charles Robinson: I was reading an article in Muhammad speak and I was sharing it with.

00:42:57.540 --> 00:43:03.060 Charles Robinson: Another person and a guy wants to fight me on the bus you rolled away today right.

00:43:03.750 --> 00:43:05.430 Charles Robinson: And then, of course, we had a few skirmishes.

00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:11.430 Charles Robinson: During practices as well, which I think you know because of racism, but Greg was really cool you know he.

00:43:12.570 --> 00:43:20.160 Charles Robinson: When they moved me up from the freshman team to the varsity he took me under his wing, you know, and you know, of course, we were friends.

00:43:22.110 --> 00:43:34.440 Charles Robinson: While I was writing my memoirs about what happened back you know in those days, I decided to write an open letter to the football team, because we get separated.

00:43:35.100 --> 00:43:36.270 Charles Robinson: And you know we were.

00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:39.060 Charles Robinson: pretty good you know we were ranked among the top two.

00:43:40.740 --> 00:43:42.960 Charles Robinson: We actually was scheduled to play grambling.

00:43:44.040 --> 00:43:51.990 Charles Robinson: For non conference game my sophomore year and gremlin did you know they they, for whatever reason that they changed it.

00:43:53.130 --> 00:43:53.520 Charles Robinson: But.

00:43:55.680 --> 00:43:56.850 Charles Robinson: When was the point.

00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:02.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I was asking you how was it that you came to call him up and.

00:44:02.670 --> 00:44:03.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah well.

00:44:03.390 --> 00:44:11.220 Charles Robinson: When I was writing the open letter, all of a sudden, I am I was overwhelmed with the emotion.

00:44:13.230 --> 00:44:25.350 Charles Robinson: And you know i've been reading a lot of books on on trauma and healing and you know i'm a mediator and someone who's interested in.

00:44:26.550 --> 00:44:45.870 Charles Robinson: And healing from trauma noticing that we all have trauma, you know it's handed down at the genetically and then I caught myself being triggered and then I was overwhelmed with emotion and I said wow what's going on here, so I decided that well, maybe I need to.

00:44:47.190 --> 00:45:02.820 Charles Robinson: Call Greg Jones, and so I looked and found found his his email address and I emailed them ask them to get in touch with me, you know, give me his phone number and so he sent an email back saying that.

00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.850 Charles Robinson: He really wanted to have a conversation.

00:45:06.210 --> 00:45:08.100 Charles Robinson: About 1969.

00:45:09.270 --> 00:45:12.090 Charles Robinson: And then he sent me the next morning.

00:45:13.470 --> 00:45:21.330 Charles Robinson: an email saying that he could hardly sleep that night because he was really experiencing them the melee that happened.

00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:30.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So Charles I want to, we have to take another quick break and when we return, I want you to talk a little bit.

00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:41.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about what that meeting was like and what people need to understand is that racism impacts us all and so he couldn't sleep thinking about the incident and then.

00:45:41.370 --> 00:45:50.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The experience that you had we all have scars from racism so we're going to be right back so Charles can tell us about the conversation that he had with Greg.

00:45:52.050 --> 00:45:52.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To.

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00:47:51.390 --> 00:47:59.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with my guest Charles Robinson and Charles before the break you were telling us about having a conversation with Greg.

00:48:01.260 --> 00:48:12.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: tell us a little bit about how that conversation went and what has that done for you to be able to have a conversation with someone so close to you.

00:48:13.530 --> 00:48:17.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: At the time of the incident that you had lost contact with.

00:48:18.450 --> 00:48:20.070 Charles Robinson: Yes, well, I think, writing the.

00:48:21.150 --> 00:48:25.770 Charles Robinson: memoir and open letter specifically to the football team had me.

00:48:27.240 --> 00:48:33.360 Charles Robinson: be triggered and and then I thought, well, maybe, if I had a conversation with.

00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:44.460 Charles Robinson: Greg Jones we could talk about what happened, what I realized when he emailed me back and he said that he could hardly sleep.

00:48:44.940 --> 00:49:06.180 Charles Robinson: And he said that he was also an innocent bystander during the during the melee, then I got in touch with how I had been like just looking at the impact on me and I didn't really hadn't been really considering impact on the people who were in that frat house, including Greg Jones and.

00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:08.850 Charles Robinson: And so we met.

00:49:10.020 --> 00:49:19.230 Charles Robinson: Two days after after we got back in touch with you, with each other and cedarburg Wisconsin where he lives now.

00:49:20.370 --> 00:49:26.370 Charles Robinson: And we met at a really nice restaurant outside is a beautiful day.

00:49:28.410 --> 00:49:36.480 Charles Robinson: Neither one of us wants to order anything because we knew that we will be talking all the time, so we ended up talking to three hours.

00:49:37.710 --> 00:49:39.030 Charles Robinson: doggie bags to go.

00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:40.770 Charles Robinson: order.

00:49:42.720 --> 00:49:43.050 Charles Robinson: But.

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:54.270 Charles Robinson: You know, he was able to give me some insight into his experience and some of the things that happen that I didn't even know like.

00:49:56.550 --> 00:50:09.330 Charles Robinson: The people who were fighting or not his fraternity number one, there was an independent team, and someone there in the gym had a five K epsilon a T shirt on.

00:50:10.140 --> 00:50:23.880 Charles Robinson: And so there was an assumption that that these white guys were members of the fat guy epsilon eternity and so all of that anger and bed invasion in the House was it was misdirected.

00:50:26.040 --> 00:50:33.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: uh huh do you think that this incident changed your relationship with him back then.

00:50:36.030 --> 00:50:36.360 Charles Robinson: What.

00:50:37.380 --> 00:50:48.060 Charles Robinson: I don't think it did in fact that was one of my questions I was wondering, you know what do they think about me after all the things that showed up in the newspaper and.

00:50:48.690 --> 00:50:56.100 Charles Robinson: You know people assume that you know if if I was found guilty, I must have been guilty right.

00:50:56.970 --> 00:51:15.630 Charles Robinson: And I never had a chance to clear my name in fact this was something that I hardly ever talked about so I want to thank you for having this this forum for me, because it is a healing process and writing a memoir also, I think, was therapeutic.

00:51:18.030 --> 00:51:18.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So.

00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:37.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What understanding, did you and Greg come to after all of this time because you've not talked in 50 years you had this incident to occur, and I don't know that the incident was the last time that you all talked was it was that the last time that you ever.

00:51:38.310 --> 00:51:38.970 Charles Robinson: Well, we.

00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.540 Charles Robinson: After he left Denver he ended up playing in the central states Football League for.

00:51:47.250 --> 00:51:55.380 Charles Robinson: The delvon red devils or whatever, and that was planned for the West elm Spartans, which is a team local team in Wisconsin.

00:51:55.830 --> 00:52:12.990 Charles Robinson: And the central states Football League, so we ended up playing against each other, a couple times and after the Games, you know we would come up and shake hands and stuff like that, but we never really had a chance to have any real dialogue about events of 1969 and of course I was, I was.

00:52:15.990 --> 00:52:30.180 Charles Robinson: Avoiding returning a whitewater because of the you know was pretty bad experience me I did go back when they built a brand new stadium, I went for the stadium dedication game and also they were honoring.

00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:41.250 Charles Robinson: The undefeated teams and after 50 years it's like a 50 year reunion and I, and I went to that event as well.

00:52:41.910 --> 00:52:51.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So so Charles What would you say was the feeling that you had going into the conversation, and then, what was the feeling that you had coming out of the conversation.

00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:55.830 Charles Robinson: With a feeling going in I am.

00:52:57.930 --> 00:53:11.790 Charles Robinson: I was unsure of Well he he did send me an email message saying that he had just been talking to someone about me about how much he respected me as as a ballplayer and also as a human being.

00:53:12.300 --> 00:53:13.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Man and.

00:53:13.380 --> 00:53:19.590 Charles Robinson: He shared that an email, so I I knew that he still had respect with me and.

00:53:21.810 --> 00:53:25.470 Charles Robinson: I going into the conversation.

00:53:27.300 --> 00:53:31.020 Charles Robinson: I didn't have any any real expectations, except to.

00:53:33.180 --> 00:53:34.620 Charles Robinson: find his impact.

00:53:35.070 --> 00:53:36.900 Charles Robinson: I was curious about the impact.

00:53:37.560 --> 00:53:40.200 Charles Robinson: that the experience might have been on him as well.

00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:53.580 Charles Robinson: Because before I was pretty much centered on me, because it, you know, it was a had a pretty big impact on me, I still managed to manage to graduate in four and a half years I couldn't go to any public school in the state, but I ended up.

00:53:54.660 --> 00:54:05.400 Charles Robinson: going to market for semester, and the I return to whitewater after sitting out for a year and graduated out of summer school, so I was determined to graduate.

00:54:05.700 --> 00:54:07.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right and you did.

00:54:07.140 --> 00:54:10.110 Charles Robinson: A great grandmother's to send me $2 in the mail.

00:54:11.790 --> 00:54:22.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So so here's The thing that I think is important for our listeners to take away from this is that a part of your healing from what it sounds like I don't want to put words in your mouth, but.

00:54:22.770 --> 00:54:34.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: A part of your healing was being able to take the perspective of the other person, because you you just said, I was thinking about what it must have felt like for him.

00:54:35.310 --> 00:54:45.840 Charles Robinson: yeah after he responded with this email message saying that he could hardly sleep, that was the clue right there, then, when he said he was an innocent.

00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:50.100 Charles Robinson: bystander like like I was as well.

00:54:50.700 --> 00:54:52.020 Charles Robinson: So I can see that we were.

00:54:53.190 --> 00:54:54.450 Charles Robinson: Almost similarly situated.

00:54:56.220 --> 00:54:58.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And do you plan to keep in touch with one another, now.

00:54:59.430 --> 00:55:01.950 Charles Robinson: yeah his wife wants to meet me and.

00:55:03.150 --> 00:55:04.620 Charles Robinson: In fact, we have scheduled.

00:55:06.420 --> 00:55:07.830 Charles Robinson: To meet again on the 29th.

00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:08.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: mm hmm.

00:55:09.510 --> 00:55:10.320 Charles Robinson: With his family.

00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:23.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well i'm wishing you well, as you continue to reconcile and rekindle this relationship that you have with him, I want to thank you so much for sharing on our show again.

00:55:24.390 --> 00:55:37.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We only have a couple of minutes left of the show what can you tell us about I know you're developing a six week program is your program around reconciliation, or any of the things that we've talked about.

00:55:38.670 --> 00:55:40.770 Charles Robinson: yeah originally you know, I was working on.

00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:55.350 Charles Robinson: Like a Co parenting program to help people who are struggling and co parenting to resolve the issue when in fact what we're finding out is because of the breakdown in relationships that the children don't get the parenting that they need.

00:55:55.890 --> 00:56:09.240 Charles Robinson: Whether you have a traditional and non traditional family structure, so I wanted to make a difference, or have an impact in co parenting and then after I develop the training I realized that.

00:56:10.620 --> 00:56:13.440 Charles Robinson: I could actually create something for the Community as well.

00:56:13.860 --> 00:56:16.020 Charles Robinson: Right, we have a lot of.

00:56:17.370 --> 00:56:30.090 Charles Robinson: People who have experienced trauma well we're born with trauma right, and so I began to investigate the healing process, so I learned a lot about mindfulness over the last year.

00:56:31.080 --> 00:56:41.910 Charles Robinson: A lot of books and i'm in a mindful practice myself, and so this this course is going to include that a mindful approach to conflict resolution and collaboration.

00:56:42.570 --> 00:56:55.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, I think that what you have done, even in your conversations with him, you began with the mindfulness as well right it's not something that you had to say, but just being able to take his perspective.

00:56:56.190 --> 00:57:07.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: was about really being in tune with the thoughts, the feelings and emotions that were going on for not just for you, but for him being present in the moment so.

00:57:07.890 --> 00:57:21.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: People can learn a little bit more about your program by connecting with you will have Charles information up on our website at talk radio nyc or you can go to sacred intelligence.com as well and catch.

00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:29.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The episode of this show if, for some reason you missed parts of it, I want to thank you so much today Charles for joining us.

00:57:29.520 --> 00:57:40.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to thank you to the listeners for joining us as well stay tuned for the conscious consultant our with Sam legal is where Sam helps you walk through life with the greatest of ease and joy.

00:57:41.250 --> 00:57:54.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: made today you tap into that sacred part of you that allows you to make choices that manifest your good and the good of those around you be well be safe, be encouraged until next time bye for now.

00:58:23.850 --> 00:58:25.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Alright, Charles.

00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:30.270 Charles Robinson: Well i'm learning so much from you, you are great hostess host.

00:58:32.190 --> 00:58:47.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, thank you, I appreciate that I know that I actually went on longer than I had anticipated for the first segment, I think, by the time I did the meditation and the first part that I wanted to do so, we went over just a little bit I.

00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:48.720 Charles Robinson: took notes on the first part.

00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:49.800 Oh.

00:58:51.240 --> 00:59:11.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, good good, so I we probably could have gotten into the healing part just a little bit more, but it was fine, I think, the one thing that I would invite you to do as a guest on shows just in general, because I can see, you know we see another's the things that we see in ourselves right.

00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:19.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know I know i'm one of those people if I think about one thing it'll make me think about something else, and then I want to bring that into the conversation.

00:59:20.130 --> 00:59:23.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is important, though, on the show when we have.

00:59:23.940 --> 00:59:29.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Like a limited time to just kind of stay zoned in on the.

00:59:30.390 --> 00:59:40.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: On the question right all the other information is good, because then it gives me something else to think about, but then it doesn't give you enough time to.

00:59:41.820 --> 00:59:46.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Really, say, maybe all the things that you want to say about an incident or for your.

00:59:47.970 --> 00:59:52.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: interviewer to come back and ask you the questions like additional questions to help draw it out.

00:59:53.010 --> 01:00:06.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Like a bit Oh yes, because because that's the thing like and it's hard it's hard to say like with the quick response I think i've over time gotten better at it.

01:00:07.290 --> 01:00:16.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Being on podcast just because I know I got to answer it quickly say enough, but then answer it quick enough for them to be able to follow up because the more questions.

01:00:17.010 --> 01:00:32.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They can get out, the more you can get in about you and the work that you're also doing, you know as well, but I thought I thought it was a good show so i'm hoping that you felt like it was a good show as well.

01:00:34.350 --> 01:00:36.750 Charles Robinson: you're there was it was.

01:00:37.050 --> 01:00:42.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You have any thoughts or comments or feedback about anything, though, as well.

01:00:47.250 --> 01:00:52.050 Charles Robinson: Like I said you you're such a wonderful host was the host or hostess.

01:00:53.910 --> 01:00:57.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, I guess, technically, as hostess if we get into the.

01:00:59.700 --> 01:01:00.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Gender.

01:01:00.690 --> 01:01:01.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I don't want I.

01:01:01.380 --> 01:01:02.700 Charles Robinson: don't want to be I don't want to be or.

01:01:03.090 --> 01:01:08.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You can say into it, you can say interviewer how about that I want to.

01:01:08.490 --> 01:01:13.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Okay, and I want to stop recording.

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