Dismantle Racism with Rev. Dr. TLC

Thursday, May 5, 2022
Facebook Live Video from 2022/05/05 - Recognizing Systemic Gaslighting

Facebook Live Video from 2022/05/05 - Recognizing Systemic Gaslighting


2022/05/05 - Recognizing Systemic Gaslighting

[New Episode] Recognizing Systemic Gaslighting

The audience will gain historical insight into how gaslighting and performative activism plays a role in the lack of progress in racial equity.

It's no big secret that racial injustice is still at work despite decades of advocacy for change. Although those years bore a meaningful shift in culture when it comes to tolerance, we still face many systemic obstacles on the road⁣ to racial equity. Why is that? 

Many of the gestures we've seen the government make in the name of racial justice have been just that: gestures. 

Join Rev. Dr. TLC and her guest, community leader Tanisha Arena as they discuss the US government's historical and current role in the gaslighting and presentational gestures used to mislead and stunt true progress towards transformative systemic change. 

Facebook: Tansha Arena

Twitter: @tanmac78 

IG: @tdotarena

Tune in for this important conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

This week the Rev Dr introduces Tanisha Arena, the ED of Arise, for Social Justice. They were in conversation around community advocacy for meaningful programs and project funding. Its implications are being addressed from the front of both the historical and current role of the U.S. government in gaslighting and performative gesturing in light of true progress. 

Tanisha shares her grounding agents, things that keep her vision focused progress-forward while doing he work of dismantling racism and queer stigma in our society. She has been gardening, intentionally playing in the dirt, cultivating life, giving it a name. Meditation in the morning, time for yourself before you jump into the day. She runs for the mental and physical challenge, the stress release of tension formed from systemic oppression.

Segment 2

Tanisha brings the sentiment around smoke n mirror programs and proposals, with a story about a petition to bring a “renewable biomass plant” that produces “clean, renewable energy” by burning wood pellets 24/7, in a place where more than half the residents of the valley community suffer some respiratory issue, and up until last year was the asthma capital of the country… Some resolutions simply do not align with the communities they claim to serve. The affected communities house the black and brown minorities, and the plant, since been downvoted, was not proposed in any of the neighboring towns redlined by the white majorities in the eastern part of the state. 

The team out and about on the ground that reach the people are close to Tanisha’s heart. Things that keep the organizations close to the precious problems of the region, what next things are coming down the legislative pipeline, how they are taking care of themselves, what they are reading or listening to (urbanview on satellite radio) that helps keep one informed. Removing the collective “wool from our eyes” is the job of the community to not let the simple atrocities escape our notice while continuing to press for progress right where they are.

Segment 3

Poor white folk have a totally different experience of poverty than poor black folk. But both have the common enemy of white supremacy, even as we know that poor whites do not have the added oppressive barrier of their race and can elevate out of the conditions of their economic station sooner than someone who is non-white. Remembering that there are intersections outside of our purview is a good way to keep our minds open to solutions we cannot come to on our own, without our set way of thinking. Leaving room for, or actively seeking out, opinions that differe from our own keep our response to the community’s needs robust and inclusive. 

Challenging our “whiteness” is an exercise in assessing how we navigate within a white-oriented system, even in the ways that we think we are not conforming– are we falling back on an institution? Is this standard one you adopted or simply accepted? Is the way in which we judge our surroundings or the issues that encompass what is ‘othered’ from our experience tolerant or not?

Segment 4

Technology access is another rising community concern–everyone seems to have seamlessly moved into a cyber-hybrid equity space where Zoom keeps us connected, but not everyone has those basic luxuries to defer to. And, if the transition was such an obvious fix, why did we not invest in tech in education as a necessity beforehand?

This conversation centered around systemic gaslighting– circumstances that have one questioning their reality, usually in the context of an abusive relationship. The ‘myth’ of white supremacy is the blinding mirage of society. Much like how the housing crisis was solved temporarily during the height of the pandemic, WE DID house everyone but now that we have progressed into a “post-COVID” period of our “post-racial” society, the norm is that we CANNOT..? Historically, the browning of the country is contrary to the political power and wealth promised by the founding framers– census, voting, representation are all signifiers on the basis of total population count that point away from a white-dominant stronghold, so we are gaslit by voter suppression, gerrymandering, redistricting and cutting of representatives allowed in communities of color. Every aspect of our lives deserves conscious scrutiny, patriarchy and racism notwitholding, addressing these larger conversations.


00:00:46.380 --> 00:01:00.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: hello, and welcome to dismantle racism and your host the Reverend Dr tlc and our goal at this show is to help you uncover dismantle and eradicate racism.

00:01:00.480 --> 00:01:13.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And the reason why we say that we want to help you to uncover it because you can't dismantle what you don't know and so i'm really excited today because we're going to be taking a look at all the ways in which we think.

00:01:14.790 --> 00:01:24.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about what the government is doing on a state level level or even a federal level or even what people are saying that they're doing on their.

00:01:25.530 --> 00:01:34.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In their businesses or nonprofits we're going to take a look at what exactly is happening when probably when people say that they're throwing money into.

00:01:35.160 --> 00:01:48.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: A particular project, how is it helping people, is it really serving people, we know that there's been a lot of changes to happen over the last few decades, and we know there's been a lot of advocacy especially.

00:01:49.380 --> 00:02:04.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Since 2020, but what is really happening how meaningful, is it when we throw money at a situation how meaningful, is it when we design projects when we design programs.

00:02:04.380 --> 00:02:12.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Are they really helping the people that we believe that they are helping so we're going to get into that conversation today.

00:02:12.450 --> 00:02:24.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But before we do we're going to begin the show as we always do i'm going to take a moment to find a breath and to Center ourselves so whatever you're doing when I asked you to pause.

00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:30.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And just put your feet solidly on the floor.

00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and take a moment just to find your breath.

00:02:36.270 --> 00:02:40.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And to tune into that which gives you life.

00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:46.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: take a moment to connect with your divine wisdom.

00:02:47.460 --> 00:02:55.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Your sacred intelligence, which is that part of you that directs your life so that you can make intelligent choices.

00:02:57.330 --> 00:03:06.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in the knowledge that these choices manifest your greatness, while helping others to manifest their greatness.

00:03:07.650 --> 00:03:16.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, as you breathe in and out remind yourself that you are loved and you are love itself.

00:03:18.510 --> 00:03:29.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe N and out the knowledge that you are a part of a shared humanity and you carry within you the power to heal.

00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:34.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And the power to change the status quo.

00:03:36.570 --> 00:03:39.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathing in and out.

00:03:40.890 --> 00:03:46.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Acknowledging the power of one contributes to the power of community.

00:03:48.810 --> 00:03:50.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: let's take a deep breath in.

00:03:51.570 --> 00:03:54.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: sigh it out and less speak.

00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:10.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am so excited today as I always am with the guests, I have on the show because today's guest is really going to be talking about the historical and the current role of the US Government.

00:04:11.040 --> 00:04:25.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And gaslighting and in performative gestures, as I said before that miss lead us into thinking that true progress has been made my guest today is to nisha arena, she is a community.

00:04:26.370 --> 00:04:39.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: leader and she is the Executive Director of arise for social justice, she is also a Commissioner on the Massachusetts Commission on the Status of Women.

00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:50.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: she's an advocate an advocate and advocate she has boots on the ground she's in there, and she understands what the issues are for.

00:04:50.910 --> 00:05:11.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Our communities and she is also the host of the award winning podcast unapologetic bringing the heart truths of social justice to the forefront, I want to welcome today to nisha arena, I am so delighted to have you on the show welcome welcome welcome.

00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:17.640 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Thank you it's a it's a pleasure to be here and talk to your audience today about.

00:05:18.780 --> 00:05:24.270 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): How the things that are going on, and you know their connection, you know, to the past, because past is present.

00:05:24.780 --> 00:05:38.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Exactly exactly it's a it's like that Sam cofer moment like right with the same code for where you'd have to go back and retrieve little kernels and treasures from the past in order to help us to grow into our President.

00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:46.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: greatness really and so before we get into that because I know you've been involved in this work, a long time, and you have lots to share with us.

00:05:48.030 --> 00:06:00.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I always start out by asking my guests this question around what grounds, you, especially when you're involved in this work, it can just strip you of everything if you're not careful.

00:06:01.380 --> 00:06:11.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so, how do you remain steady and committed in doing this work, you know, taking care of yourself grounding you and something that moves you forward.

00:06:14.970 --> 00:06:30.180 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Believe it or not, i'm actually someone who considers themselves a bit newer to self care grounding and things like that, because doing this work, it almost feels like what are their choices they're like this is, I live this life in this this black body.

00:06:31.260 --> 00:06:35.730 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): As a black lesbian woman, so I don't have the privilege of opting out.

00:06:37.830 --> 00:06:56.100 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): But what I have learned is to find more of the things that cultivate gratitude and joy in my life and knowing that as black people we deserve to have joy breast to take care of ourselves and not just when we're going through it, so I actually like playing in the dirt.

00:06:57.420 --> 00:06:57.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: i've.

00:06:57.930 --> 00:07:11.220 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): been gardening for a couple of years i'm hoping to have better success this year and it's also that connection to the earth being intentional about taking my shoes off and letting my feet feel the grass.

00:07:12.330 --> 00:07:17.640 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): I have plants in my house and I did recently named them and I touched the leaves again things that are alive.

00:07:18.330 --> 00:07:32.040 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): that's important I meditate every morning and that's the starting place so I really appreciate how this is started, you know with taking the slow deep breaths and grounding yourself.

00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:38.850 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And that's been really pouring in the mornings, where I haven't had a chance to meditate the day tends to look a heck of a lot different.

00:07:39.390 --> 00:07:50.850 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): So I see the importance and it's also we need that time for ourselves just jumping into the day and there's so many things that are going to take things out of US yeah.

00:07:51.840 --> 00:08:09.720 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): I am a runner I feel like I can say that now i've been running for about a year and it's the mental and physical challenges and also like getting out that stress of doing this work of experiencing you know the gaslight and it comes with white supremacy and racism.

00:08:10.230 --> 00:08:17.040 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Like literally i'm running it out, because where else is it going to go and we can't have those things stored up in our bodies.

00:08:17.490 --> 00:08:20.910 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And again, that mental and physical challenge and then that's how I can show up.

00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:22.530 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Strong the next day.

00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:23.760 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): and

00:08:24.210 --> 00:08:36.690 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): I just became a grandmother twice over, so the little baby faces it doesn't hurt if anything it's given me a renewed sense of purpose like why I have to do this, I have a granddaughter and have a grandson.

00:08:37.170 --> 00:08:37.710 and

00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:40.110 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): This has to be different.

00:08:40.500 --> 00:08:42.900 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Like it's like it just can't.

00:08:44.040 --> 00:08:44.880 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): It just can't.

00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:52.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I wouldn't just say something about I so appreciate your honesty was saying that I have an always.

00:08:52.560 --> 00:09:04.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Taking the time for myself, because I think that that's actually a mistake that black people and other people of color make because you started by saying I don't get to opt out, and you don't get to opt out.

00:09:05.370 --> 00:09:19.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: necessarily have the experiences that you're having because people are going to show up they're going to treat you the way that they're going to treat you, no matter what, but the privilege that we do have that our ancestors didn't have since we're talking a little bit.

00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:20.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about history.

00:09:21.330 --> 00:09:25.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They didn't have the option of when they wanted to sit down and take time for themselves.

00:09:26.070 --> 00:09:36.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because they had to, for instance, have a baby and be back out in the fill in the same day right people don't really think about the trauma that they went through but because this is mental health awareness.

00:09:37.140 --> 00:09:47.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: month I want to be really intentional also about saying, for those of us who are involved in this work, we need to replenish and to refill.

00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:58.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Our psychological whales in our lives in order to spark so I love it love it love it that you are being intentional about that being intentional.

00:09:58.680 --> 00:10:11.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about connecting with our our earth mother right, you know, being in with our with our source our creation and, yes, you are a runner i'm not one, but I can appreciate that.

00:10:12.390 --> 00:10:17.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So thank you, I want to thank you for taking care of yourself, because we need you.

00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:27.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We really, really need you to be out here and doing the work because we're all called at different levels, and it seems that this is your passion so.

00:10:27.780 --> 00:10:38.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to jump right into it and hear about the work that you're doing so, I said to our audience that you are the Executive Director of arise.

00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:42.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know, tell us what arises and who you serve.

00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:54.150 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): well arise, is a grassroots nonprofit and I guess, I have to put an Asterix it's a growing grassroots nonprofit that has always focused on the right, support and low income folks.

00:10:54.570 --> 00:11:05.730 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And that's across housing and economic justice homelessness environmental justice criminal justice and I spend a lot of time talking about the racial justice, the White supremacy and racism that.

00:11:06.210 --> 00:11:11.580 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Is the underbelly of the aforementioned things like that's that's how we got there and.

00:11:12.330 --> 00:11:17.040 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): it's like there's been the evolution of this organization that started out by for single moms on welfare.

00:11:17.280 --> 00:11:27.630 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): But we're navigating like do I leave college, which is a space where I can better myself and not need welfare, but then i'm going to lose my welfare benefits and being at that place and knowing.

00:11:28.230 --> 00:11:36.090 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): This kept them barely above poverty it wasn't you know, making any radical changes in their lives, and you know they organized around that.

00:11:36.570 --> 00:11:47.880 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And then had some changes in Massachusetts and then it evolved to a poor and low income rights organization and now here we are at this juncture in this the evolution, where I would say we're talking about human rights.

00:11:48.120 --> 00:12:04.260 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): mm hmm right or specifically the civil rights that are that are being gutted like in front of our eyes, because it's in that place right in our country at its core right white supremacy is rooted in anti blackness.

00:12:04.710 --> 00:12:05.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: mm hmm.

00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:08.310 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): She said, the thing yeah.

00:12:08.400 --> 00:12:09.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Oh well, of course.

00:12:10.380 --> 00:12:16.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But here's the thing too that I want to say around white supremacy, because if we're really talking about.

00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:21.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: History, and this is why it's important for us to know our history.

00:12:21.750 --> 00:12:34.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: White supremacy, has always been around making certain white folks wealthy, so we don't we don't want to skirt over that either, because you know people often think they were they were white people who were Indentured servants.

00:12:34.950 --> 00:12:35.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ye were white.

00:12:35.730 --> 00:12:46.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: People who actually had to prove that they were white if we go back and look at history, there are people who had to prove that they were white so it's still white supremacy.

00:12:46.560 --> 00:12:51.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But as White for certain types of folks and that's why we all need to be concerned about.

00:12:52.560 --> 00:13:06.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This conversation and our country is built on a foundation of supremacy and oppression and to keep certain folks down and and, I believe, with your organization with a rise.

00:13:06.660 --> 00:13:12.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: As you're talking about social justice, like you said you're talking about social justice for all but you're getting to the route.

00:13:13.290 --> 00:13:25.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right that racism is a big part of that, so you know, Tunisia, we jumped right into it, and of course it's time for us to take a break in just a few seconds, so when we come back from the break.

00:13:26.490 --> 00:13:34.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: want to hear you talk a little bit more about the work that you're doing, because you said a lot in that with.

00:13:34.380 --> 00:13:45.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: how things are tied into and I love your example about welfare So if you could give us a little bit more in terms of examples of history when we come back and how it's tied into.

00:13:45.930 --> 00:13:57.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Social justice and white supremacy I would love to hear that we are going to take a quick break this is the dismantle racism show i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc we'll be right back.

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00:16:12.030 --> 00:16:21.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with the dismantle racism show my guest today is to nisha arena, who is the Executive Director of arise.

00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:27.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She is a true true advocate of social justice out there, you know.

00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:37.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: boots on the ground, as they say, and so i'm delighted to have you with your and I want to thank you again, because I know how busy your schedule is for joining us.

00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:48.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: before the break to nisha you talked with us about the history of white supremacy and how it actually impacts our programs today.

00:16:49.050 --> 00:17:03.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, can you talk a little bit more and give us a little bit more examples of how history influences our programs, and it makes us feel like we're we're making progress, but we're not actually making progress.

00:17:03.570 --> 00:17:04.110 it's.

00:17:05.310 --> 00:17:16.710 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): The trickery um so I I think some of them are radical things that are out there, maybe they're really not radical is that the United States runs on smoke and mirrors and racism.

00:17:17.670 --> 00:17:28.500 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And it's keeping the things hidden but it's it's cycles around again like past really is present in the things that go on in the way that they go on and how its structured so.

00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:37.650 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): In terms of the work at arise when we talk about the past, like okay so looking at welfare rights and the impact and community that was one thing.

00:17:37.950 --> 00:17:44.970 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And something that's current but also connected to the past, there was this fight that's still kind of going on about biomass.

00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:51.180 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And for folks that don't know they wanted to build a wood pellet burning biomass plant in Springfield.

00:17:51.870 --> 00:17:59.070 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And Springfield as a designated environments with justice community, which means that there have already been environmental hearts right that's environmental racism.

00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:12.990 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Right, they just call it something pretty I would say Springfield as an environmental sacrifice own because the people here can experience these harms right there's a school that has mold That was the basement was condemned but students still go there, but this biomass plant.

00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:22.800 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): would run 24 seven would spew toxic fumes into the air, because it's burning wood and it was tried like they tried to sneak it in is clean energy, but.

00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:32.880 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): If you burn anything it's not clean it's the process of burning and renewable, because it was wood pellets and we could plant more trees that's really not how that works.

00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:40.200 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And so designated environmental justice community more than half of the residents have asthma, or some other respiratory issue.

00:18:41.340 --> 00:18:50.100 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): We are in a valley, we have a failing air quality grade from the American lung association and up till about maybe six months ago we were the asthma capital of the country.

00:18:50.910 --> 00:19:09.330 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Not of the Commonwealth of the entire United States and think about what that means, to the people that live here, and you want to build a biomass plant that's going to spew pollution 24 seven lives here the residents are primarily black and Brown.

00:19:09.660 --> 00:19:15.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right, so I need you to just pause because you just given us a lot of information to absorb.

00:19:16.290 --> 00:19:27.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So tell me how do we learn about things like that and to know so so so a bill comes forth or they this resolution comes forth that we want to build this plant.

00:19:28.350 --> 00:19:45.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How do people get informed about those things, and then, how do they fight for those things, because your average Community person is not involved in the way that you're involved and so these things kind of happen, you know before we know it so tell us what to do.

00:19:46.020 --> 00:19:55.770 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): so well, I can tell you what happens see what happened was when this started, and I believe it was as we were in 2022 was like 2009.

00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:03.840 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Company propose hey we want to get permits, we want to build this plant so that whole process zoning city council, etc.

00:20:04.290 --> 00:20:11.970 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And some folks got wind, my predecessor, and it was like wait, this is also a health equity issue because air quality and things like that.

00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:22.110 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And then the challenges come into people in the Community, like wait a minute if they build us here, these are things that are going to happen so organizing and rallying around like we don't want to have this plant here.

00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:25.050 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And the Community said no.

00:20:25.230 --> 00:20:32.730 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): repeatedly for 12 years because biomass only got struck down the Air Quality permits got Poles.

00:20:34.710 --> 00:20:37.080 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): 20 2021 yeah.

00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:41.190 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Because I remember, where I was when I got the call from one of our city councilors was like oh my God to do here.

00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:48.180 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And I said no, they pulled the Air Quality permits, which really that ended the project was like the actual building permits had expired.

00:20:48.630 --> 00:20:49.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: mm hmm.

00:20:49.350 --> 00:20:52.530 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And then, no air quality permits, so you really can't build this thing.

00:20:53.250 --> 00:20:57.780 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): But again, the Community had said no, for all those years.

00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:03.390 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Why wasn't this something being proposed in granby or beltre town or.

00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:04.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why right.

00:21:05.370 --> 00:21:06.390 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): who lives there.

00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:14.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right, I think that these are the questions that are really critical, because one of the things that happens is when people want to talk about.

00:21:14.580 --> 00:21:22.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why are, why are we as people of color on welfare or why do we have the health issues that we have not taking care of ourselves why.

00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:30.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: All of these things, yes, we have some responsibility, so I would never say that we don't have to take responsibility for some of those things.

00:21:30.390 --> 00:21:40.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But here's what people don't know they don't know the inherent racism that occurs that contributes to asthma right, you know, so if you have.

00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:57.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: A city where you have where they're proposing to do such things, but also where you also have a lot of other toxic stuff that's happening, of course, your rate of asthma will increase and this actually impacts not just the folks in Springfield.

00:21:57.300 --> 00:21:58.830 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Ultimately it impacts, the.

00:21:58.830 --> 00:22:05.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: State and it impacts us, overall, which is what people don't understand when we think the cost of racism.

00:22:05.730 --> 00:22:13.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right it's not just the cost to the personal color so I really appreciate this conversation around the the.

00:22:15.090 --> 00:22:27.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The ways in which something can appear that it is a good thing for the Community, when in actuality it isn't and for people of color we've been sacrificed for years.

00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:28.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I mean.

00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:30.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know, I was talking about the tuskegee.

00:22:30.540 --> 00:22:33.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: incident, but it's really more than that.

00:22:33.330 --> 00:22:40.320 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Oh yeah yeah I mean we were sacrificed from the beginning, like that that's just that's just how this works.

00:22:40.530 --> 00:22:41.910 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): I mean if we have to tell the truth.

00:22:42.060 --> 00:22:58.290 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): about the things that have gone on have healing come from that place and to to your point about the cost so was this plant going to be beneficial for Springfield absolutely not it was going to provide lower cost energy to people in the eastern part of the state.

00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:00.210 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): You know the walton chatham you know, like.

00:23:00.810 --> 00:23:02.280 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Why would they put it there.

00:23:02.760 --> 00:23:03.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But you.

00:23:03.090 --> 00:23:15.690 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Know again we're going to sacrifice black and brown people for the benefit of white people, but the kicker and nobody really talked about this, there was a 90 mile burn radius.

00:23:16.110 --> 00:23:21.510 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): So that smoke was going to go 90 miles in any direction so to someone like me, I was like.

00:23:21.570 --> 00:23:30.960 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Oh, my gosh 90 miles is New York City 90 miles is all of Connecticut where i'm from its main its new Hampshire it's from month, so I was going to.

00:23:31.530 --> 00:23:38.310 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Draft a letter and send videos of canvassing and promotional materials that we had done and send it to all of the different city council's around.

00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:48.390 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): and say hey did you know that this was happening here and pretty soon we'll all be in competition for being the asthma capital because 90 miles also covers Boston.

00:23:49.770 --> 00:23:58.200 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And did people know this, and the answer was probably know, and I didn't have to do that work because I got that phone call that morning but it's the consideration of.

00:23:59.370 --> 00:24:04.560 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): It matters what's happening in the Community, that you don't live in, because the smoke doesn't notice stay in the smoking section.

00:24:04.860 --> 00:24:06.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Exactly see hurts.

00:24:06.510 --> 00:24:08.490 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Everyone even way people.

00:24:08.730 --> 00:24:10.110 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): think that says okay.

00:24:11.340 --> 00:24:13.950 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And they built this plant 90 miles.

00:24:14.550 --> 00:24:18.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I want to just ask you two nations, you know, like listening to you, and knowing.

00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:34.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How involved, you are with the issues but knowing how involved, you are serving people so so you're involved with the issue so that you can help fight the issues and you're involved with you know, the people who come into your organization.

00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:39.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How do you sustain this momentum to keep that you know I mentioned it before.

00:24:39.390 --> 00:24:39.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I.

00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:50.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: talked about the the ground fitness piece, but you've got to know what's going on, I mean this is a daily daily journey for for people like you who are out there, so.

00:24:51.000 --> 00:25:03.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How do you just keep going, day after day to you know, to know who's doors to knock one who are your supports like tell me who you surround yourself with with the supports to.

00:25:04.290 --> 00:25:16.320 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): My gosh i'm surrounded by an amazing staff in my office, I mean honestly they they do the groundwork of things and talking to people and the canvas saying and.

00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:22.200 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And also like the amazing organizers and Community like i'm not the person that sits in the space and.

00:25:22.800 --> 00:25:26.940 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): You know doesn't you know give credit to the the folks who are really like out there out there.

00:25:27.390 --> 00:25:41.340 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): You know it's like I operate, I would say, like at the higher level, like I want systems and institutions, and then there are the folks who go and talk to the people, and there are amazing organizations around here neighbor to neighbor Springfield no one leaves.

00:25:42.750 --> 00:25:53.790 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Those are just the two that popped in my head and it's like the organizers in the spaces and we get together and if it's like you know your social life and activists life, they just kind of blend right So you see.

00:25:53.790 --> 00:25:56.670 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): People at events and it's like oh my gosh hey are you doing and.

00:25:57.150 --> 00:26:08.100 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): there's that collective sharing of what's going on in Community what things have you tried what's The next thing coming down the Pike, and this is really exhausting and are you taking care of yourself, and those are the spaces.

00:26:08.460 --> 00:26:09.330 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): I read a lot.

00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:21.420 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): I listened to urban view on satellite radio and that informs a lot of the information and just paying attention and honestly it feels like.

00:26:22.020 --> 00:26:31.290 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): One day, a couple of years ago I woke up and just new stuff and I don't know how I knew stuff I just know that I know stuff and it makes sense and trying to explain it.

00:26:32.130 --> 00:26:40.530 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): In a way that people can grasp it like all these complex things are they're complicated, but not really complex.

00:26:41.010 --> 00:26:48.660 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Because it's really simplistic it's hidden in plain sight that's the best way if you're going to hide something and i've asked folks like do you have kids.

00:26:49.110 --> 00:27:04.290 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Like you yeah you ever asked them to go get you something in a room and they go in there and they're like I don't see it, and then you go in there and it's literally right in front of their faces that's how this system works it's that obvious so obviously like no.

00:27:05.550 --> 00:27:07.470 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): yeah, but it is.

00:27:07.830 --> 00:27:09.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah it's that.

00:27:09.210 --> 00:27:22.740 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Obvious people don't see it, they see it and want to close their eyes and pretend like they don't that's what I named white people listen y'all can see yeti obviously bigfoot you have to the Loch Ness monster, you can see Elvis I need you to see white supremacy.

00:27:23.910 --> 00:27:27.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But you know I say it's interesting there's so much that you said in there.

00:27:28.110 --> 00:27:36.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because there's a need for white people to open their eyes to do this work on white supremacy there's also a need for us to open our eyes, because.

00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:47.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we've been hoodwinked to in many instances, and also sometimes it's just so painful that we're just trying to get through our day and do that, we have to do so, I am.

00:27:48.120 --> 00:27:55.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I know we have to take another quick break here, but I want to just say I appreciate you honoring.

00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:04.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: All the people that it takes to do this work and one of my goals for the work that I do on dismantling racism is to get people to show up.

00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:12.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right, where you are so you don't have to be a Tunisia arena and be the executive director you don't even have to be that person who.

00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:23.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is out there, like you said they're these other neighborhood organizations that are involved some of those people are leaders in some of those people go into volunteer to do work.

00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:34.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: For those places as well, there are lots of nonprofits but wherever you are just start where you are and do the work what I also value about what you're saying.

00:28:35.310 --> 00:28:41.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Is that when we are ready to do this work when we open our eyes, we will wake up and know.

00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:53.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We won't know everything, because the truth of the matter is for me the way I look at what you're saying is creator spirit, whatever you want to call it was already putting that knowledge down in you.

00:28:54.330 --> 00:29:02.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And when you woke up to it, it was like Bam i'm ready I got what it takes, because those seeds were already planted since you're a gardener.

00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:03.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know that.

00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:08.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Oh seeds were already planted deep down in there, what happened is you were ready to.

00:29:09.210 --> 00:29:17.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know blossom right because they were sprouting, and so I love it that you say I woke up my new and in the knowing.

00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:24.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know what you had to do as well, to continue the journey, and so I just want to tell our listening audience.

00:29:24.780 --> 00:29:32.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you've been given a see there's a seed inside of you, as well as ready to blossom, so I hope that you're getting information from.

00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:39.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This show and and all the ways that you see injustice is happening to know that you can do this work as well we're going to.

00:29:39.870 --> 00:29:45.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: pause and you should just take a quick break again, and when we come back i'd love to hear.

00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:55.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about your work on the Commission on the Status of Women, because I think even in talking about that you can give us more examples of how.

00:29:55.470 --> 00:30:07.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Racism is hiding in plain sight and some things that we ought to look out for so we're going to take a quick break we'll be right back this is the dismantle racism show i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc.

00:30:14.490 --> 00:30:17.790 It airs on talk radio dot nyc every night.

00:30:19.590 --> 00:30:25.860 Sam Liebowitz: Every episode is dedicated to memorable experiences in the great smoky mountain national park and surrounding areas.

00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:37.110 Sam Liebowitz: This show features experts and locals who will expound upon the richness of culture, history and adventure that include you in the smoke coming in every Tuesday from 6pm to seven on talk radio dot nyc.

00:30:40.050 --> 00:30:53.610 Sam Liebowitz: passionate about the conversation around racism hi i'm Reverend Dr tlc host of the dismantle racism show which airs every Thursday at 11am Eastern on talk radio dot nyc.

00:30:54.060 --> 00:31:06.120 Sam Liebowitz: join me and my amazing guest, as we discussed ways to uncover dismantle radical racism that's Thursdays at 11 o'clock eight m on top radio dot nyc.

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00:32:12.540 --> 00:32:19.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with my guest today to nisha arena, who is the Executive Director of arise.

00:32:20.580 --> 00:32:38.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We have been talking about a lot, as it relates to history and white supremacy and how it is impacting us today, because one of the things people need to understand is that when institutions are put in place those institutions are built to last.

00:32:40.290 --> 00:32:58.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they're not they're just temporarily and that's why it takes years and years and years of dismantling and uncovering systems and so when people say well isn't racism over aren't things a lot better for people of color.

00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:19.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I will be the first to admit things are a lot better relative to what our ancestors experience, but we still have a long ways to go and so Tunisia, you have been sharing with us all the ways that those systems have been put into place to keep us at a certain level.

00:33:20.730 --> 00:33:33.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so I want to talk a bit about your work on the Commission, you know, on the status of women, talk to us about what you do and, in particular.

00:33:34.590 --> 00:33:42.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Tell us what some of the issues are with women in general, and then, if you could tell us how it might differ.

00:33:42.930 --> 00:33:57.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: For people of color and for poor women because, even when we talk about poor white women there's still race involved race and racism involved in that so talk to us a little bit about the work there.

00:33:58.350 --> 00:34:08.520 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Well, I am fairly new Commissioner, so I will say that, but certainly ready to jump in and tackle the disparities like even in a place like this which.

00:34:09.180 --> 00:34:17.820 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): You know, has a mission of improving the condition of women and girls right and examining that across the Commonwealth, but then that examinations like what did you ask.

00:34:18.180 --> 00:34:30.720 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): representation matters more than just saying that representation matters and having faces that look different are you listening to what folks are saying that they need and are you actively seeking out voices that are different than your own.

00:34:32.370 --> 00:34:35.040 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): There are a lot of Commissioners, located in the eastern part of the state.

00:34:35.790 --> 00:34:39.390 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Wealthy white women, maybe lower to mid income white women.

00:34:39.750 --> 00:34:50.430 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And then there's the western part of the state and the demographics look entirely different and the needs of black and brown women poor black and brown women also looks really different because we're dealing with the racism to.

00:34:51.330 --> 00:35:07.470 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): absent in that other space and to your point about poor white limit right poor white folks have a totally different experience than poor black folks and we know this, but still having that common enemy of white supremacy, but that intersection of race and class is a tough one.

00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:11.010 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Because most of like what I did grow up poor and I lived in the projects and.

00:35:11.130 --> 00:35:13.440 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): The laundry list of things and that's true.

00:35:13.950 --> 00:35:14.970 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): But your race.

00:35:15.390 --> 00:35:23.100 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): has never been a barrier and you could elevate out of those conditions, a heck of a lot sooner than someone who was not white.

00:35:23.550 --> 00:35:25.020 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): We have to name that and know it.

00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:34.020 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): So, on the Commission, when we're when we're coming up with policies and practices what things you want to advocate for for women across the Commonwealth it's being inclusive about that.

00:35:34.590 --> 00:35:42.540 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Right, there are some issues that hit all of us as as women and girls, for example, you know, having sanitary products available, you know, in the schools for girls.

00:35:42.990 --> 00:35:45.810 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Yes, right that's Okay, we all got that one.

00:35:46.170 --> 00:35:55.500 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): You know, but then there are some of these other things like are we instituting internal policies that are antithetical to our mission and creating barriers for women as women.

00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:59.970 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Attendance policies what that looks like knowing childcare we're.

00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:13.380 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Still in this pandemic, you know how are folks navigating if I live here in Springfield and i'm expected to make it to a meeting in Boston well that's the travel the time.

00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:24.960 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Afterwards, you know, am I staying overnight in Boston because then there's the meeting that happens at seven that runs until nine and I got to go home naming those things zoom as accessibility and not convenience.

00:36:25.200 --> 00:36:38.730 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Right and having folks say I never even thought about that she didn't because you're actually in the eastern part of the state and not having to consider driving to Western mass and is that going to be an overnight adventure for you.

00:36:39.090 --> 00:36:39.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: uh huh.

00:36:40.170 --> 00:36:47.580 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): So, again naming the different experiences and how these things show up for folks where it's like that's not even on my purview.

00:36:48.120 --> 00:36:53.490 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And, just like that's happening on the Commission that's also happening in the bigger picture.

00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:54.450 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And I feel like.

00:36:54.480 --> 00:37:01.260 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): These organizations that are built on the same systems and institutions they're replicating what's happening in the bigger picture.

00:37:01.290 --> 00:37:05.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, and what's interesting is sometimes we don't even realize how we're replicating it.

00:37:05.310 --> 00:37:06.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Sometimes, as women.

00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:15.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We replicate patriarchy so little of color we replicate white this you know so it's built here's what people need to understand.

00:37:16.350 --> 00:37:22.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When you're born into a system you learn how to navigate within that system.

00:37:22.380 --> 00:37:37.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And sometimes you mimic the things of that system without thinking about it it's the same thing we do in our families right, you know you grow up in your family and your mom cooks you know I don't know grits a certain way, since I love love love grades.

00:37:38.100 --> 00:37:40.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Is the way i'm going to cook those grits What about.

00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:43.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Is there something else I could do with my grits.

00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:58.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Other than cook them the way my mother cook them no, I do not use sugar that's a no, no, we go there with whether we use your because that's like a crime to do that, but other than that I could learn some different ways.

00:37:58.530 --> 00:38:05.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of making a grits right and so it's important for us, particularly when we want to say Oh, oh no i'm.

00:38:05.940 --> 00:38:17.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: not born into that i'm not born into i'm not a racist or i'm not I don't have whiteness I mean, I have to tell you this is an aside, I remember because i've done the work around.

00:38:18.060 --> 00:38:30.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know trainings not just as a trainer but participating, and I remember the first time a facilitator asked me to examine my whiteness right, I said.

00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:43.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I don't have any whiteness because you know i'm like pro black gone to all black schools, you know and in high school with our university yeah, no, no, I don't have any whiteness.

00:38:43.680 --> 00:38:59.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But then when you start to dig deep and you start to look at the ways that you have to navigate within a white system, there are things that are going to show up in creep up even in the even in the ways that we think we're not you know.

00:39:00.150 --> 00:39:04.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The ways in which we say this is the standard this as to be the standard.

00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:07.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Is that falling back into an institution.

00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:12.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We do it as women, all the time we do it in the ways in which we judge our bodies, for instance.

00:39:12.570 --> 00:39:14.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And the ways in which we talk about.

00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:19.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What the body we prefer to have well that steeped in a social construct.

00:39:20.040 --> 00:39:28.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so I think that the things that you're talking about here are relevant in terms of for anybody, if you want to open up your eyes.

00:39:29.100 --> 00:39:41.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To white supremacy into Racism and how it's steeped into this society is just to begin to examine ourselves, step by step, and pull back the layers that's what you're talking about.

00:39:41.370 --> 00:39:51.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So that if you're sitting in a meeting and you're demanding something of people of color in a certain and maybe in certain areas, either because let's not say we're not talking we're not a monolith.

00:39:51.960 --> 00:40:04.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So there might be some people of color who don't have some of the issues that you're talking about want to be clear about that, but then we still need to be concerned about the women who do is what i'm hearing you say you.

00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:07.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: take into consideration, so.

00:40:07.620 --> 00:40:13.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Now I want to ask you something, because one of the things you said was you know talking about.

00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:21.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what's available to people that people can just jump on zoom or that people have the device, I think we know from coded.

00:40:21.720 --> 00:40:40.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that that was not the case right so talk to us about some of the differences that you saw even with our kids and what they needed to be able to have school online and then how, what do you know, in terms of just.

00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:47.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Talking about how Springfield was able to provide for the welfare of our children during that time.

00:40:49.650 --> 00:40:50.640 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Welcome coven.

00:40:52.890 --> 00:41:09.480 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): has been a catalyst, among other things, and I feel like the things that we can pull out of it that are meaningful and i'll even say good like we knew that things were bad, but to see the actual depth and breadth of how bad like how why these gaps are.

00:41:10.740 --> 00:41:11.670 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Beyond telling.

00:41:12.180 --> 00:41:19.560 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And so, when we talk about technology and here comes this digital divide and realizing that not everybody has access to the Internet.

00:41:19.890 --> 00:41:31.650 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): or computer or tablet or like things that some of us could take for granted, like i'm just gonna hop on my zoom and you know I have all the things that I need everybody didn't have that and then it became something that was essential.

00:41:32.730 --> 00:41:44.970 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Because of what was going on with coven and the way that we needed to to live and how many things are deemed essential basic that lots of folks can't access and.

00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:55.110 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Technology has become this pain point and school was on zoom and maybe your work, you know shifted to zoom, but could you actually do that.

00:41:55.860 --> 00:42:08.220 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Because now my kids aren't going to school and I think again tell the truth about situation school and the in America, the United States is free daycare like Why did I cry when my kids went to kindergarten because I don't have to pay for daycare anymore.

00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:13.140 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And also, they get educated, but that also looks different depending on where you are.

00:42:13.890 --> 00:42:24.690 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): But now my kids are not going to school and they're in the House and I have to help them with their education and that looks like a thing, and how can I help them with their education, but I also have to be on my own zoom to do my my own work.

00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:30.360 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And that's a barrier for who we can put that you know, mostly women.

00:42:30.990 --> 00:42:42.930 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): were having that experience that's Commission work that's arise work it's worked and partnership with the women's Fund and we connect with them a lot because, again, who experienced these economic hardships under coven.

00:42:44.010 --> 00:42:51.090 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And a lot of especially black and brown women lost their jobs lost businesses industries that haven't returned jobs that haven't returned.

00:42:52.320 --> 00:43:06.600 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): So that had an impact before students, if you didn't have access, what did that look like and how to Springfield try to meet that demand getting kids laptops you know, making arrangements with the you know Internet providers, because what else could you do.

00:43:06.990 --> 00:43:08.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah and he was.

00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:09.600 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): just saying.

00:43:10.560 --> 00:43:17.100 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): You know, and the other part two, that that I think is really important, not just for the students but also for people at work.

00:43:18.030 --> 00:43:29.910 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Having a different experience, because we didn't talk about some kids actually thrive, because they weren't in these toxic environments and some employees thrive, because they didn't have to go into that toxic work environment getting the micro macro aggressions.

00:43:32.430 --> 00:43:40.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Now that's huge and we actually have to take a break, but that is, I just want to, I just want to say that's a really, really huge.

00:43:41.550 --> 00:43:50.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: insight, to be able to say the ways in which we, as people of color were able to thrive, because.

00:43:51.000 --> 00:44:02.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If we really understand what we go through and that's a whole that's a whole different show, but if we understand what we go through on a day to day basis, sometimes internalizing.

00:44:03.030 --> 00:44:12.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What we experience thinking that it's us and i'm not saying that we're perfect things, but there are some things that we experienced that we began to think.

00:44:13.080 --> 00:44:18.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Wait a minute i'm not good enough or i'm doing this i'm doing that, based on the micro aggressions.

00:44:19.140 --> 00:44:29.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That we experience that actually impacts our ability to learn and to thrive, so I do appreciate you bringing that up The other thing I want to say really quickly, because I know that.

00:44:30.330 --> 00:44:39.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You do have to move to break is this is that, if they were able to get laptops and ipads for students during covert.

00:44:40.560 --> 00:44:49.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why were we not able to do that beforehand, why are we not able to invest in our kids but that's another conversation for us.

00:44:49.950 --> 00:45:00.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To have as well, but these are things you know what I like to do on this show is at least to drop the kernels to get people thinking about these things because we can't resolve everything on the show but.

00:45:00.750 --> 00:45:06.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're gonna take a quick break and we are going to be right back with my guest to nisha arena.

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00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:12.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with today's guests nisha arena, and we have been talking about.

00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:26.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ways in which we need to look at our past and understand what has happened in our past in order to make things better for us today and we've really been talking about gaslighting before we go today.

00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:37.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I really would love for you to nisha to give us your definition of what gaslighting is because I want to make sure that people understand what we're talking about and then.

00:47:37.770 --> 00:47:50.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: After you give us your definition, give us examples of how we can really began to look and look at what's happening in the world and say Oh, you know what that's an incident of gaslighting.

00:47:51.900 --> 00:48:01.740 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Well, the definition of gaslighting it's where there are things happening that have you questioning your reality, where and usually in the context of an abusive relationship where.

00:48:02.250 --> 00:48:09.330 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): You will say you know you did xyz and the person will say that never happened like your your your banana that's absurd.

00:48:09.810 --> 00:48:17.040 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And you're likely did that really happen, I don't know, and I feel like well we're navigating through white supremacy and racism, there are lots of situations where you're like.

00:48:17.490 --> 00:48:21.390 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Did that really happen like I don't and it's the myth.

00:48:21.990 --> 00:48:29.100 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): of white supremacy that has you questioning right your your must be your personal moral failings, you know that's the reason why you're not driving.

00:48:29.310 --> 00:48:35.010 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And it has nothing to do with the systems and institutions, and when you ask about systems and institutions will point them out it's.

00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:39.900 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): No, no, no there's no such thing there's no problem here like that there's no racism.

00:48:40.290 --> 00:48:48.180 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): we're in a post racial you know society hearing those things as a part of the gaslighting your question at the end of the last segment about.

00:48:48.600 --> 00:48:56.820 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): You know if we could you know resource our kids during coven why couldn't we do that before, and the answer is, we can we always could.

00:48:57.270 --> 00:49:02.580 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Part of the gaslighting that I see related to coven was like let's take homelessness, for example.

00:49:03.390 --> 00:49:08.100 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): We were actually able to have people stable the House because they needed to be in the House.

00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:17.130 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And i'm like so we did that i'm in meetings and they're like yeah we got we got everybody that you know that we was on the radar everything we we did it.

00:49:18.030 --> 00:49:27.900 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Okay, so then after the fact that it's like kind of get things back to normal, and you know we're post coven and there's that language we're post something again allegedly.

00:49:28.710 --> 00:49:32.370 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And it's like whoa we can't we can't how's everybody.

00:49:33.450 --> 00:49:34.260 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): i'm sorry what.

00:49:35.580 --> 00:49:36.330 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): But we did.

00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:39.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, but that's the institutions that we're talking about.

00:49:39.510 --> 00:49:41.310 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Right and that's the gas lighting.

00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:45.480 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Their place this thing really happened we did it.

00:49:45.870 --> 00:49:52.320 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And now you're going to tell me, we didn't we can't believe that thing actually happened.

00:49:53.700 --> 00:50:03.420 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): resources and this happens on repeat and lots of spaces and places with these systems and institutions like i've said white supremacy is the windows 10 of this country it's.

00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:04.530 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): always running just like.

00:50:04.740 --> 00:50:13.170 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): If you're you're watching this you're streaming your laptop is going you're clicking all the things you don't have to think about what windows, is doing, but windows, is doing what windows needs to do.

00:50:14.160 --> 00:50:14.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and

00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:15.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I love that example.

00:50:15.930 --> 00:50:26.940 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): that's what it is, and if you can't catch it that way, it is high fructose corn syrup it's in everything and then you go looking at something else you're like oh my gosh it's in that too it's literally in everything that we do.

00:50:27.240 --> 00:50:29.700 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Unless we're intentional about it, not being there.

00:50:30.750 --> 00:50:45.660 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): and pick any issue like so i'm sitting in front of a poster that says, our bodies, our minds, our power how appropriate considering everything that's happening right now with the Supreme Court and the potential overturning of roe V Wade and i'm going to say potential the overturning.

00:50:46.770 --> 00:50:48.270 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And what is that about.

00:50:49.170 --> 00:50:58.710 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): That is about white supremacy and racism, that is, about the anti blackness because historically black women for sterilization.

00:50:59.370 --> 00:51:09.570 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Offering sterilization after a pregnancy, whereas is that the situation that's happening for white women it's about knowing that the browning of this country is happening, but this goes back to history.

00:51:10.470 --> 00:51:19.530 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Right, the playbook the rules laid out by the framers political power and wealth would be distributed based upon total population count.

00:51:20.040 --> 00:51:24.450 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): That is about census, that is also about voting it's about representation.

00:51:25.650 --> 00:51:26.430 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Right and.

00:51:26.610 --> 00:51:30.840 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Black folks have always outnumber white folks because black folks were bred for Labor.

00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:41.070 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): So, in a state like South Carolina which, to this day blacks out number whites eight to one if this is a numbers game and i'm white, I cannot win.

00:51:42.810 --> 00:51:55.080 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): So I have to cheat insert voter suppression insert gerrymandering insert the redistricting right now that's still happening, where folks are trying to cut representatives.

00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:57.240 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): and communities of color.

00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:08.970 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): That is to roe V Wade in the sense of it's not that we care about the babies, because if you cared about the babies why don't we have policies that support women and children, why are their kids in cages.

00:52:09.420 --> 00:52:09.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This is a.

00:52:09.930 --> 00:52:10.740 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): numbers game.

00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:19.950 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): me white babies born because that's how we uphold the systems and institutions.

00:52:21.270 --> 00:52:26.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And what you're saying, though, is that we all suffer as a result of that right.

00:52:26.580 --> 00:52:29.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because we do know that white women suffer as a result of.

00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:37.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: These rules that are put into place again patriarchy and racism are so tightly.

00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:46.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: woven together and that's what we need to understand is interesting, what you're talking about I was doing a class yesterday and I often get.

00:52:47.010 --> 00:52:54.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: One of the examples is to have people to look at the tapestry, and to start to look at what's going on in life and say so.

00:52:54.930 --> 00:53:05.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What this race have to do with this situation, and we were talking about that can be overwhelming, but what you've just demonstrated, is that in every aspect of our lives.

00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:15.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We need to take a look at where does this come from now, obviously we can't fight every single thing out there, but what we do is we do what we can, where we can.

00:53:15.870 --> 00:53:30.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I want to encourage our listeners to do just that, and I also want to say this is that the conversation that we've had today where we've looked at how white supremacy impacts.

00:53:31.500 --> 00:53:40.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: People of color and black folks, in particular, that does not negate that other people have their own suffering and their own oppression.

00:53:40.950 --> 00:53:53.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And we're not trying to do that, and I want to be very clear about that on on my show, in particular, and when I try to dismantle racism because i'm advocating for social justice for people who look like me.

00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:59.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: does not mean that I want other people out here to be in pain and I think that that's one of the issues that.

00:53:59.670 --> 00:54:06.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: happens with folks when we're asking them to join in with us and to fight the clauses.

00:54:07.230 --> 00:54:14.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I i'm concerned about your pain to i'm concerned about other groups, but there's an intersection ality most often.

00:54:15.240 --> 00:54:18.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That we have to look at, no matter what the issues are.

00:54:18.330 --> 00:54:31.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: there's an intersection ality so if we're talking about LGBT Q I ate issues there's an intersection ality of race right if we're talking about able ISM you know sexist whatever it is, and so I want to just encourage people.

00:54:31.710 --> 00:54:44.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And what you've done to nisha is really given us some very clear examples of where white supremacy shows up in the day to day that we're looking at.

00:54:45.750 --> 00:54:46.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: With abortion.

00:54:47.640 --> 00:54:53.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know, with with when we're looking at education, all of these things, so we.

00:54:54.330 --> 00:54:59.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: are so delighted that you've come on the show today we meaning me and my listeners because you've given a lot of us.

00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:12.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Some things to think about before we we close and I asked you to leave us with words of inspiration, are there any is there any final comment that you need to make that you haven't said today.

00:55:14.100 --> 00:55:16.050 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): I think what I want to leave folks with.

00:55:17.550 --> 00:55:26.370 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Is that we do like our ancestors want to rest, because I, my ancestors wildest dreams and i'm going to grind it that's not what our ancestors actually wanted they wanted.

00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:37.560 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): The freedom to decide what to do with their time and their lives and our work is to cultivate that gratitude enjoying the find the things that nourish us, because we deserve that.

00:55:38.130 --> 00:55:46.140 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): And the take time to take care of ourselves, our bodies, our minds and our spirits and to focus at that place, we do have our work to do in community.

00:55:46.890 --> 00:55:55.170 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): right we don't need white folks to uphold white supremacy and racism, because we will do that too that's why our ancestors knew all skinful can kinfolk and we.

00:55:55.200 --> 00:55:57.150 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): We have to date right.

00:55:57.840 --> 00:55:59.250 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): yeah to take care of.

00:56:00.600 --> 00:56:06.510 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): That that's, how do we, how do we survive and then get to thriving take care of ourselves.

00:56:07.110 --> 00:56:12.060 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): Go to the doctor, so no flour sit in the sunshine find the joy.

00:56:13.350 --> 00:56:19.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, so Tunisia, I real quick tell us how we can get in touch with you our audience.

00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:36.900 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): You can visit the arise website it's www arise I am on the twitters at ta n ma see seven eight i'm also on instagram T arena i'm not i'm not hard to track now.

00:56:38.250 --> 00:56:39.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I will well I.

00:56:40.200 --> 00:56:43.590 Tanisha Arena (She/Her(s)): In connection because it's it's going to take a community to do this work.

00:56:44.730 --> 00:56:50.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, well, I want to thank you, I think those words were your actual words of inspiration, because they inspired.

00:56:51.270 --> 00:56:58.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: us, as well as I want to thank you for being a guest on my show today it has been a privilege, I want to thank the listening audience.

00:56:59.070 --> 00:57:06.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I do want to encourage you tell folks about us tell folks about the dismantle racism show, and the work that we are doing.

00:57:07.230 --> 00:57:21.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to invite you to stay tuned for the conscious consultant hour with them leave with where he helps you to walk through life with the greatest of ease enjoy be well be safe, be encouraged until next time bye for now.

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