Employment Law Today

Tuesday, January 11, 2022
Facebook Live Video from 2022/01/11 - Covid-19, Women of Color, and the Dual Pandemic...

Facebook Live Video from 2022/01/11 - Covid-19, Women of Color, and the Dual Pandemic...


2022/01/11 - Covid-19, Women of Color, and the Dual Pandemic...

[NEW EPISODE] Covid-19, Women of Color, and the Dual Pandemic...

Our audience will gain a greater understanding of the inequity of the pandemic, its harsher impact on women of color. In addition, our audience will learn how to address and respond to the needs of their employees who are people of color and/or female. 


Covid-19, with its ever-changing variants and twists and turns,  has undoubtedly taken a harsh toll on the economy, on labor shortages in the workforce, and on the collective and individual mental health of our society. However, the pandemic of discrimination - implicit bias and overt bias - has been exacerbated by Covid - particularly against people of color / women of color in the workforce.

 On the next episode of Employment Law Today, my guest is Emily Williams, DEI Consultant, Coach and Advocate for women of color, and Founder of Forward Ever Global. We will discuss the disproportionate impact of Covid-19 on women of color, from the perspective of the *employees* who live this reality.

Company Website:


Tune in for this informative conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Eric opens tonight’s episode welcoming his guest, Emily Williams, a consultant, coach, and advocate for women of color, and founder of Forward Ever Global. The topics for tonight’s conversation deal with the disproportionate impact of Covid-19 on women of color in the workplace looking at the perspective of employees who experience these issues. Williams talks about how her career started. Her first job out of college was working with adults with mental illness. She went back to school to work on her Masters Degree on Women and Gender Studies. Williams has always been an advocate for people of color and women of color. She has helped women across the globe to open up and address harassment in the workplace. Eric asks Williams about how the pandemic has shed a light on existing issues with gender bias and other kinds of discrimination. Williams brings up issues like pay rate. Women of color are also less likely to have access to savings and other kinds of support such as financial support during the pandemic when many were losing their jobs and loved ones.

Segment 2

Eric talks to Williams about working from home as well as implicit bias. Williams says that a distinction that she has seen is between women of color who were able to work from home and women of color who had to show up on the front line such as healthcare workers and other service industries. Those who had to show up to their workplace were more vulnerable to catching the virus, but it was people of color who were risking their health and having less financial resources compared to white healthcare workers. There’s also a distinction in pay rate as well for instance. She also says that she believes that women of color who worked from home were able to realize the truth of the racial trauma that there is in the workplace that affects diversity, inclusion and overall wellbeing. Williams makes a point that 1 in 3 women are ready to leave their jobs and it’s usually a woman of color. She hopes that the issues coming to light due to the pandemic can create positive change moving forward.

Segment 3

Coming back from the break, Eric and Williams talk about women now noticing more of the real issues and toxicity that is still present in the workplace. One of the most important things that Williams stresses to business leaders is that they should listen to their employees with how they feel about the culture in employment and the workplace. But she says that it is hard to recognize whether a busines owner is aware or may be ignoring the discrimination that occurs in their business. When employees feel heard and supported, they are likely to stay at their workplace much longer and actually enjoy what they do. Williams says that employers may shy away from admitting or recognizing dicsrimination due to fear. It may be hard to admit that these kinds of bias exist in a workplace for several reasons such as fear of lawsuits, reputation, etc. But she encourages them to be involved. It doesn’t have to go to the extent of a lawsuit to address these issues.

Segment 4

Coming back from the final break, Williams talks more about different things that have come up since the start of the pandemic. She says that there’s a call to go beyond ‘diversity statements’ and to actually implement acceptance of diversity and policies that help inclusion in the workplace. Employees want inclusion and they want to be valued and have a safe workplace. Williams and her consulting firm Forward Ever Global have a 4 part process that helps businesses work on improving their workplace and address microaggressions. They look at their current policies and advise any changes as well as one on one consultation with employers and business owners. They look at whether there are any exclusions of people of color and if there are negative impacts on those groups. Forward Ever Global also works with businesses on a national level, not just on the East Coast. But a firm like Forward Ever Global doesn't just rely on women of color to come forward to address policy changes that need to happen, but they also need organizations and companies to be proactive in coming together in making a better workplace. Williams encourages business owners and leaders to really listen to women of color who come forward in the workplace. You can find Emily Williams on Linkedin at Emily R. Williams, learn more about her work at, and you can also contact her at


00:03:13.320 --> 00:03:21.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Take two Okay, good evening, welcome to climb a lot today i'm your host erick solder i'm an employment law and business law attorney.

00:03:21.600 --> 00:03:33.810 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I host this weekly live talk radio show every Tuesday night at 5pm right here on talk to me to nyc where I have guests who discussed with the most novel complex and cutting edge issues.

00:03:34.170 --> 00:03:43.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: That business owners and employers and employees face in this complex times we talk about issues of discrimination employee engagement.

00:03:43.410 --> 00:03:58.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Labor laws cover 19 and we do it with some resources and guidance for those listening so in the spirit of my show i'm very pleased to welcome our guest miss Emily Williams Emily as a coach consultant a.

00:03:59.100 --> 00:04:05.550 Eric Sarver, Esq.: advocate for women of color in the workforce and she's founded a forward ever global's Emily welcome to the show.

00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.220 Emily Williams: Thank you so much Eric i'm happy to be here.

00:04:08.730 --> 00:04:17.670 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Great happy to have you have to chuckle because I think I was telling you about the meeting that you're muted, before we start to don't forget to unmute and then I was on mute so but.

00:04:18.210 --> 00:04:29.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Just kind of a little humor there, but I want to share with the audience tonight the topic that we're going to discuss it and then i'll give you a more proper introduction your background and your qualifications.

00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:42.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You impressive his work history, so our topic folks is covered 19 women of color and the dual pandemic and Emily Emily and I were speaking about.

00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:53.490 Eric Sarver, Esq.: With its ever changing variances its twists and turns which have undoubtedly taken a very harsh toll on the economy on Labor shortages in the workforce.

00:04:54.030 --> 00:05:03.780 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And on the collective and the individual mental health of our society, but the pandemic of discrimination of implicit bias and over bias.

00:05:04.140 --> 00:05:12.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: has been exacerbated by Coleman, particularly against people of color and women of color in the workforce and so on tonight's episode of employment law today.

00:05:13.260 --> 00:05:25.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: My guest Emily Williams di consultant coach and advocate for women of color and founder vote ever global and I will discuss this disproportionate impact of covert 19.

00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:36.030 Eric Sarver, Esq.: How does it impact the women of color in the workforce, what are the perspective of employees who live this daily reality so we'll also discuss.

00:05:36.810 --> 00:05:55.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Some of the patterns that Emily is seen in her work and speaking of Emily its money give you that instruction that I mentioned to welcome into the show Emily Williams, is a coach and a consultant a dedicated to addressing the issues of work that most negatively impacts women of color.

00:05:56.190 --> 00:06:08.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Emily has led and design diversity policies on national global stages, including the Global treaty to end gender based violence and harassment in the world of work, which was adopted by the United Nations.

00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:21.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Emily has worked with organizations and Community stakeholders to further the equity and inclusion in one to 20 countries with a background and Labor and human rights Emily advisors organizational leaders.

00:06:22.470 --> 00:06:26.610 Eric Sarver, Esq.: on how to build a company cultures that model racial and gender equity.

00:06:27.390 --> 00:06:36.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Emily Williams specialized isn't addressing micro aggressions in the workplace and in coaching women of color to thrive, despite the everyday challenges at work.

00:06:37.530 --> 00:06:48.480 Eric Sarver, Esq.: She founded phone whatever global llc after a 15 year career, the social sector, where she led organization think through change and establish multiple diversity equity and inclusion.

00:06:49.590 --> 00:06:58.440 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And we serve as president of the Board of Directors for fathering together and she is a member of the board of advisors for women of color in the workplace.

00:06:58.950 --> 00:07:15.390 Eric Sarver, Esq.: She has a bachelor of arts degree in psychology from beloit college and a master of arts in women's and gender studies from depaul university so again Emily with that backdrop of your just your passion for this topic it's i'm really thrilled to have you on the show tonight.

00:07:15.900 --> 00:07:19.440 Emily Williams: Great Thank you Eric yeah i'm definitely happy to be here.

00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:20.520 today.

00:07:21.930 --> 00:07:29.340 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Yes, it certainly is still before we jump right into the topic, I just want to get a little more background about yourself, I find this to be an interesting.

00:07:30.330 --> 00:07:37.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: starting point I think it's how people get to where they are so i'm wondering like if you could tell us a little bit more about yourself specifically Emily.

00:07:38.460 --> 00:07:47.700 Eric Sarver, Esq.: How did your career initially started out and then what prompted you to start your own business and become a coach and an advocate for women of color in the workforce.

00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:57.690 Emily Williams: yeah absolutely thanks for that question well my first job out of college was working with adults with severe and persistent mental illness.

00:07:58.620 --> 00:08:03.000 Emily Williams: From there yep and then from there, I became a classroom teacher.

00:08:04.620 --> 00:08:13.050 Emily Williams: And after that I went back to get my degree in women's and gender studies and, from that point on, I was really able to make.

00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:32.610 Emily Williams: Gender and racial equity central to my career and so i've been fortunate to work with many organizations, both as an employee and as a consultant, you know to equity central to an organization's culture mission and vision.

00:08:34.470 --> 00:08:36.990 Emily Williams: So that's a bit about my career history.

00:08:38.160 --> 00:08:50.280 Emily Williams: yeah and then I became you know i've always been an advocate for people of color and for women of color but didn't make it on as my full time job as an entrepreneur.

00:08:50.640 --> 00:09:00.750 Emily Williams: Is that I had experienced you know toxic working environments and I experienced treatment that I felt low level of harassment.

00:09:01.710 --> 00:09:09.540 Emily Williams: And you know it became very real, for me, when I had been working with women leaders from 13 countries.

00:09:10.170 --> 00:09:18.810 Emily Williams: To address gender based violence in the world of work, you know I would often do trainings lead workshops in which I would encourage women.

00:09:19.740 --> 00:09:41.070 Emily Williams: You know, to name the violence that was happening at work and then to advocate for policies to address that problem oh yeah So when I realized that the treatment that I was experiencing you know was more than a coincidental series of decisions that had had a negative impact on me.

00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:52.410 Emily Williams: And instead that I was being targeted I realized that I too had to speak up about what was happening and then propose policies to address the problem.

00:09:53.040 --> 00:10:07.980 Emily Williams: And then, in that process, I learned that it wasn't just me right, that women of color generally are the most harassed of anyone right and that's across industries and that's across sectors.

00:10:09.150 --> 00:10:10.230 Emily Williams: You know so.

00:10:11.700 --> 00:10:16.470 Emily Williams: You know my advocacy led to not only changes in my particular experience but.

00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:16.740 Emily Williams: It is.

00:10:17.190 --> 00:10:19.650 Emily Williams: A culture for other people of color.

00:10:20.250 --> 00:10:20.550 Emily Williams: And it.

00:10:20.820 --> 00:10:38.340 Emily Williams: will strengthen the company's diversity equity and inclusion program so yeah so I started my coaching and consulting practice one because I want women of color to know that they have more options than to simply suffer through a toxic work environment.

00:10:38.400 --> 00:10:38.700 or.

00:10:40.470 --> 00:10:54.660 Emily Williams: um and then I want to encourage organizations to really build workplace cultures, where people of color and women of color can thrive and I want them to know that that too is in their best interest yes.

00:10:54.930 --> 00:11:05.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Yes, well, I would say first off that way, first and foremost i'm sorry for your experience of the the toxic and discriminatory workplace that you described there you know your background your history.

00:11:06.420 --> 00:11:16.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: it's like I seen that live, I guess, on the show, I think a lot of them take them they've been motivated to take action call to action and passionate about what they do.

00:11:16.470 --> 00:11:25.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Often, based on their own, the painful experiences in a situation that may be either a heightened awareness to say this is what's happening to me and others.

00:11:25.800 --> 00:11:32.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Or it just it's a sort of suffering that I think, to be about transforming suffering into meeting by know doing service.

00:11:33.270 --> 00:11:41.190 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Based on that suffering is really something so I seen that with too often with very often I guess the mind they've experienced some kind of trauma.

00:11:41.640 --> 00:11:48.480 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And it inspires them to act and it builds their passion and their compassion, which i'm sure you had before you.

00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:55.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: embark on the endeavor with for whatever global so also get to hear you talk about empowering and what I heard, I heard you say you.

00:11:56.160 --> 00:12:03.480 Eric Sarver, Esq.: help women of color in the workplace, who you're right are the most discriminated against that, seen that as an employment law attorney over the years, unfortunately.

00:12:04.260 --> 00:12:14.700 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And let them know that they have more choices like then just suffer soundly or quit so that's her the empowerment piece so yeah I appreciate, you know your.

00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:23.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: backstory there you know, like what personally and professionally preceded you and getting to all pathway to now right where you are now.

00:12:25.410 --> 00:12:34.920 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So I thought, maybe that's a good segue into our first question about this topic which you've lived and experienced, which is in what ways has the pandemic.

00:12:36.540 --> 00:12:45.150 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I would say, effective ways of implicit bias, discrimination and had disparate impact for people of color in the workplace, but i'm also wondering, a point you raised when we spoke.

00:12:45.570 --> 00:13:01.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: When How has it been me perhaps like eliminated shone a light on already existing sort of the two trail two tracks between women of color the workplace and white men or women in the workplace.

00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:02.970 Emily Williams: yeah yeah absolutely.

00:13:04.680 --> 00:13:16.620 Emily Williams: and definitely agree that the pandemic, you know it revealed long standing biases right discrimination which have been taking place for a long time.

00:13:16.650 --> 00:13:17.850 Emily Williams: Right and we saw it.

00:13:19.680 --> 00:13:33.390 Emily Williams: You know, in a new way or in a way that we haven't seen in a long time, and so you know some of the disparities that were exposed and exacerbated our number one disparities and pay right.

00:13:34.050 --> 00:13:46.680 Emily Williams: You know, women of color consistently earn less than their white male and female counterparts right and that's anywhere between about 62 to 54 cents on the dollar.

00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:56.340 Emily Williams: You know, on top of that women of color are less likely to have access to savings right so in a time when.

00:13:57.510 --> 00:14:04.830 Emily Williams: job loss was happening left and right women of color had people resources to fall back on.

00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:13.230 Emily Williams: You know, at the same time, women of color more often heads of households right.

00:14:14.550 --> 00:14:19.740 Emily Williams: You know they have you know family members who are dependent on them for care.

00:14:19.830 --> 00:14:31.080 Emily Williams: Right, and you know, there are those disparities in addition to there were higher rates of mortality from Kobe 19.

00:14:31.740 --> 00:14:45.090 Emily Williams: Any communities of color right so um you know, we see that there was you know sort of greater economic and care responsibilities for women of color.

00:14:45.270 --> 00:14:45.510 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know.

00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:57.900 Emily Williams: their families and their for in for their communities, which then was invaded the workplace pressure during the pandemic right it increased their need for support for flexibility.

00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:05.280 Emily Williams: And you know what we see is that workplaces weren't necessarily ready.

00:15:05.430 --> 00:15:05.610 Eric Sarver, Esq.: To.

00:15:06.270 --> 00:15:24.210 Emily Williams: Go supports or with those policies to provide women of color the support that they needed in order to fulfill their job responsibilities, in addition to the increased responsibilities of care and around stress that came with the pandemic.

00:15:25.800 --> 00:15:30.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah I think it's really good points there and we just kind of a one two punch from closing wasn't it, I mean.

00:15:30.990 --> 00:15:31.470 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah.

00:15:31.530 --> 00:15:33.330 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Like the disease itself sort of.

00:15:34.710 --> 00:15:43.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Targeting like a better term impacting women of color and people are much more with higher my booty rates and then of course think people are less.

00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:53.490 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Access to certain health care and resources and then there's the pressure of the workplace changing but women of color and Kevin let's say to to fall back on.

00:15:53.850 --> 00:16:05.550 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And certainly having higher rates of responsibilities as head of the household often than some of their white counterparts, so I can see how it's a definitely a sort of a one two punch their.

00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:16.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: impact on women and women of color and just be working from home remotely or not having saying opportunities and I imagine for.

00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:25.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Certain child care needs that are pressing even they don't have resources for, say, a live in nanny that might be afforded to.

00:16:26.160 --> 00:16:31.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Someone has been climbing the ladder and socially and economically because they're white perhaps mail.

00:16:31.980 --> 00:16:43.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know break the status that makes it easier to do so, so I definitely hear this topic being presented in different ways in different angles, a lot different perspectives, I should say, and I think it's really good point you raised, you know.

00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:55.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: We actually have to take our first commercial break but we'll come right back with more honestly topic and we'll talk about some of the emotional and psychological factors at play that might be.

00:16:56.220 --> 00:17:10.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: blinding were business owners to their role is implicit bias so i'll just say for the audience night and Eric cyber post employment law today my guest tonight is Emily Williams, please stick around we'll be right back.

00:19:24.870 --> 00:19:27.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to employment law today.

00:19:29.100 --> 00:19:30.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Eric sorry I guess.

00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:32.580 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Emily Williams.

00:19:33.600 --> 00:19:42.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: coach and again for people of color the workplace and founder of the phone whatever local employees we're talking tonight For those of you who joined us late to talk about.

00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:50.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And Emily of Cobra 19 in the workforce and how its impacted women of color and that last.

00:19:52.230 --> 00:20:03.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Question wait to be credit towards your answer, but I want to hear more to share, about working from home and disparities in the examples of implicit bias condition if you'd like to laugh.

00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:17.730 Emily Williams: yeah yeah absolutely, thank you for that, so my point that I wanted to make is that you know long standing stereotypes about women of color in the workplace, a devaluation of their Labor.

00:20:18.840 --> 00:20:38.220 Emily Williams: You know impacted their mobility within employment right on and then access jobs, you know high paying jobs and also jobs with great benefits right, so you know when we see these things, taken together, how would it did exacerbate long standing in equities.

00:20:39.270 --> 00:20:45.450 Emily Williams: You know and created hardship for clarity and economic loss for for many women of color.

00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:55.110 Eric Sarver, Esq.: there's a good point that way you know these I did I did just arrived are encoded they've been pretty I guess.

00:20:56.010 --> 00:21:03.060 Eric Sarver, Esq.: proceeded my years of discrimination that man disproportionately are, in fact, not even bad, but let's be honest, I have.

00:21:03.630 --> 00:21:12.930 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I have this unfortunately left women of color with less resources in lower position pay gap, you mentioned the pain equity so when the tsunami hit.

00:21:13.530 --> 00:21:26.550 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Your office choices and both in the eternal job and then, when the word for yourself for changing careers, a job I think that's an interesting point you raised about the fact that these disparities and consistent lobby for.

00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:36.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: coverages conditioner like shining a flashlight, as you said, revealing it and also maybe throwing gas on the fire, making it harder for them to comfort.

00:21:37.290 --> 00:21:53.610 Eric Sarver, Esq.: US seen any examples of, say, women in different age groups being affected differently younger versus older workers or have you seen a time JESSICA quick the class supporting women of color being get harder, as the workplace by dependent.

00:21:54.030 --> 00:22:11.550 Emily Williams: yeah I went to the most important distinction that i've seen on is the distinction between women of color who were able to work from home during the pandemic and those who you know were essential workers and had to show up on the front lines during the pandemic.

00:22:13.110 --> 00:22:17.430 Emily Williams: You know, so when we look at women of color who had to show up on the front lines.

00:22:17.760 --> 00:22:37.680 Emily Williams: You know, many of them working in you know the medical field home health aides in history fields, and you know they one were risking you know, the possibility of contracting the virus every day as a week to work there were fewer protections for that.

00:22:37.710 --> 00:22:37.920 If.

00:22:39.390 --> 00:22:41.250 Emily Williams: You couldn't show up for work.

00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:42.150 For a day.

00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:44.520 Emily Williams: and

00:22:46.170 --> 00:22:53.370 Emily Williams: And also, you know we saw increasing stressors around needs for childcare.

00:22:53.430 --> 00:22:58.680 Emily Williams: Right, so I think that that's an important distinction to make.

00:23:00.750 --> 00:23:10.860 Emily Williams: And, as they were deemed essential workers they had fewer protections and some of the emergency relief packages that we saw that katie to benefit some workers.

00:23:11.790 --> 00:23:25.050 Emily Williams: So I think yeah and I think, in contrast, for women of color who were able to work from home, you know, a very different scenario right we saw that many women of color.

00:23:25.800 --> 00:23:35.670 Emily Williams: You know, have the time in the space to actually come to terms with how workplace cultures had been impacting their well being right.

00:23:37.110 --> 00:23:41.130 Emily Williams: Well, success, because in the first time in recent history.

00:23:42.150 --> 00:24:01.050 Emily Williams: You know in math we were able to you know we didn't have to show up to the office right, so we had a reprieve from the daily micro aggressions right your particular individuals, you know who maybe were bullying or demonstrating other toxic behavior.

00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:03.270 Emily Williams: Within have to interact with.

00:24:03.690 --> 00:24:14.640 Emily Williams: yeah, and so I think that you know work from home actually worked in the opposite way for women of color who are able to do that because so many were able to realize.

00:24:15.810 --> 00:24:22.710 Emily Williams: You know or begin to come to terms with the racial trauma that they have experienced at the workplace.

00:24:23.850 --> 00:24:41.610 Emily Williams: You know I think it's an I think many women of color have said, you know it's not worth my well being right I health and it's interesting to know that you know micro aggressions are no better for women of color in 2021 they weren't.

00:24:42.930 --> 00:24:43.410 Emily Williams: Right.

00:24:43.650 --> 00:24:44.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: That is.

00:24:44.490 --> 00:24:54.210 Emily Williams: Even Amidst this you know sort of renewed commitment to diversity equity and inclusion that so many companies and organizations made.

00:24:54.660 --> 00:25:09.930 Emily Williams: Right so um you know, again, you know, we have the scenario in which one standing biases long standing in equities were exposed, even when women of color were able to work from home.

00:25:10.530 --> 00:25:19.860 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah sounds good, so now i'm going to hearing in that answer interesting point and only hearing, like the one two punch of dependence annual women of color who are.

00:25:20.250 --> 00:25:28.170 Eric Sarver, Esq.: separated from their white colleagues, but also the spirit impact of women of color who are essential work workers, whether it be.

00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:35.280 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Health care or health aide or nursing home or in see the grocery stores people who.

00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:42.330 Eric Sarver, Esq.: say it didn't have the protection like that a lot of it they're white and kind of parts might have had in other indiscretions.

00:25:42.690 --> 00:25:49.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So I hear essentially right, you have two things going on there, yes you've got, as you said, i'm hearing you say women of color.

00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:57.720 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Who was showing up and they're saying i'm risking my life right i'm getting less protection than some of my weight colleagues who for colleagues appears.

00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:08.400 Eric Sarver, Esq.: neighbors family members or friends rather who are not having to rest your life, it can drop, and for this maybe crappy pay or little pain that they start to realize this is not.

00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:16.860 Eric Sarver, Esq.: My words and then you have women of color perhaps maybe a higher level positions and they were mainly working from home remotely but.

00:26:17.550 --> 00:26:21.330 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Being away from the daily grind and daily micro aggressions.

00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:32.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: it's like getting a new pair of glasses right if your glasses are old prescription to get used to that and to the eye doctor, to get them upgraded like Well, I can actually see you know at my age, I can read again, and you know, to get progressive.

00:26:32.970 --> 00:26:37.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But you get used to it because it sort of squinting and kind of going like this, a long time, and then I think.

00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:49.590 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Maybe being removed from that daily situation of the discriminatory boss, the workplace bully and, in many cases with those two titles right go ahead and hand bullying and.

00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:56.040 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Racism in foreign often for sides, the same coin, so I think it's interesting to note that.

00:26:56.610 --> 00:27:07.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And then it to me it brings up a great resignation kind of question that so many people who rated as nation are often white people not people of color yeah you see more.

00:27:07.620 --> 00:27:21.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Women of color and expressing and recognizing dissatisfaction with their works, what does that tell you about the inequity of choice and mobility right for what many women of color in the workforce, compared to some of their white male or female counterparts right.

00:27:22.170 --> 00:27:26.250 Emily Williams: Right yeah I think that's true you know it was 4.4.

00:27:26.310 --> 00:27:27.630 Eric Sarver, Esq.: million people.

00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:31.110 Emily Williams: left their jobs in September 2021.

00:27:31.350 --> 00:27:37.740 Emily Williams: All right, just that, alone, and one in three women are ready to leave their jobs.

00:27:37.950 --> 00:27:40.410 Emily Williams: Right that's even higher for women of color.

00:27:41.340 --> 00:27:55.050 Emily Williams: So you know, I think it tells us something about how how unhealthy how toxic and how out of alignment with our personal well being many workplace cultures have been right.

00:27:55.080 --> 00:28:09.630 Emily Williams: that people are ready to say listen, I can no longer sacrifice my health and well being for this job, I have to find another way and many, many women are leaving even without you know, having another job lined up.

00:28:09.690 --> 00:28:10.350 Emily Williams: Right, I mean.

00:28:10.830 --> 00:28:14.370 Emily Williams: To be something that you know, was very ill advised.

00:28:15.420 --> 00:28:26.070 Emily Williams: Very different considerations and I think you know absent, of a global pandemic I don't know that people would have made the same evaluations right, so I think in that way.

00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:34.980 Emily Williams: You know the pandemic has contributed to what I hope will be some really positive shifts and workplace culture as we move forward.

00:28:35.850 --> 00:28:44.910 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah I think that's like a really good point and we you know you're vague it's like a reckoning of sorts, you know, the idea that you know it took a pandemic and that's something telling right it took.

00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:55.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Almost two years now life threatening illness on a daily basis, even with all the trial right that it brought you know sickness and illness and death.

00:28:56.310 --> 00:29:04.770 Eric Sarver, Esq.: To perhaps maybe like shaky what to say you know me if I make my life what's really important or can I write is this worst horror eating, you know.

00:29:05.070 --> 00:29:11.190 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think that when we're in the kind of caught in the bump and grind and mix of things, the daily grind like the term that you may have no listen.

00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:20.340 Eric Sarver, Esq.: vino before Colin it's easy to just go with the go along with it and yeah this is rough and i'm struggling with anyway, and then people start to lose.

00:29:20.790 --> 00:29:28.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: relatives and then 40s and 30s and 40s from this terrible virus and we lose people and these people, these are businesses livelihood.

00:29:29.280 --> 00:29:40.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think it like makes them kind of take stock, you know disaster can do that sometimes so but in fascinating to note, I think, women of color actually might be maybe a positive shift might be a reckoning sort of.

00:29:41.520 --> 00:29:52.410 Eric Sarver, Esq.: With the whole great resignation as you want to get back to that point because I hear pushback from any employee as a business as you could imagine being an attorney and.

00:29:52.950 --> 00:29:58.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I feel like this, like to put up a counter to what they're saying so, we need to take our second commercial break so.

00:29:59.730 --> 00:30:10.770 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I hope everyone's going to get a lot from this so far as more to compliment talk about how Emily helps businesses to recognize your remedy some of this information and why you should care that business owner how this is.

00:30:11.100 --> 00:30:21.600 Eric Sarver, Esq.: is good for everyone 50 employees and good for you the employer so stick around as margarito nyc i'm your host of the formula today or it's over my guest Emily Williams we'll be right back.

00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:35.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to class today because during summer i'm gonna climb up on attorney in your state and i'm here tonight with my guest, and the way.

00:32:36.270 --> 00:32:39.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: We present founders or whatever.

00:32:41.550 --> 00:32:49.890 Eric Sarver, Esq.: you're talking about coordinating so the dual Devon for women of color right discrimination and coordinating and.

00:32:50.880 --> 00:33:09.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The recommendations that the whole thing is certainly an interesting part of this, I wanted to touch upon, let me answer that last question about how many are some women coloring or noticing there toxicity in the workplace say this too much me and I teach myself.

00:33:10.950 --> 00:33:12.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: quit my job I don't have.

00:33:13.470 --> 00:33:22.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: noticed is that some visible layers the view that phenomenon, they view the quitting the greatest nation very differently.

00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:36.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: We have is from their own bias, but they see it as know workers don't appreciate have that you know the sort of Title generation of millennials, even though there are number of gen xers and other things in this.

00:33:36.870 --> 00:33:50.130 Eric Sarver, Esq.: resignation but it's actually that things are are already good at the workplace, so if you know what my job you just don't have this but it takes, you know you don't want to face tough situations.

00:33:50.550 --> 00:33:57.630 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So i'm wondering if maybe think about and you share the other perspective right which is no interface inspirational work they're facing.

00:33:58.170 --> 00:34:07.770 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The toxicity laughter pagans hey nobody's based on race and gender women of color being mistreated, very often, and assigned to them saying to leave.

00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:22.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So I think you know question of do you think there's an emotional and psychological psychological factors that play that might be one of these business owners to the security impact that Colin has in terms of global workplace paulson's.

00:34:24.030 --> 00:34:43.140 Emily Williams: um I do Eric I think you know when you're bringing up that point, it would it reminds me of is that our culture of work, for you know the last several decades has been you know very much based on you know sort of individualism hard work right that emotion of meritocracy you know.

00:34:44.370 --> 00:34:45.870 Emily Williams: You know sort of like make it on your.

00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:54.090 Emily Williams: own, and I think people have realized how negatively that has impacted you know many people's health right.

00:34:54.720 --> 00:35:12.720 Emily Williams: So you know when you're saying that there are CEOs business owners who see the great resignation very differently, you know i'm not surprised, and I think one of the most important things, you know that I stress to leaders all the time, is that.

00:35:14.220 --> 00:35:33.600 Emily Williams: We have to also listen to what you know our employees are seeing right, we also be remiss and Eric if we did not also talk about the wave of employee activism that also came about during the pandemic very much related to racial justice.

00:35:33.660 --> 00:35:46.770 Emily Williams: And you know the killings of George floyd Brown and Taylor and others right, and so we see employees in mass are saying they're demanding a different culture.

00:35:46.860 --> 00:35:47.400 Right.

00:35:48.870 --> 00:35:55.350 Emily Williams: You know CEOs business owners managers would be well served to say to listen.

00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:55.770 Right.

00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:18.540 Emily Williams: It is, it is absolutely time for a change, and you know we can see that that's happening, and you know whether or not CEOs and owners are on board right, but a much better place if we can have conversations, so that we can truly have a workplace that actually works for everyone.

00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:23.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: hundred one, yes.

00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:40.530 Emily Williams: yeah yeah absolutely and I think to you know answer your question, you know it can be very hard to comment on whether you know, a business owner fails to recognize that there is a discriminatory impact of policy or practice.

00:36:41.550 --> 00:36:48.630 Emily Williams: Or you know, a business owner, you know is willfully ignoring if in when they happen.

00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:49.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, you know it's.

00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:51.480 Emily Williams: hard to comment on.

00:36:52.230 --> 00:37:06.030 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The line right there kind of blurry line reading storing will willfully for very sadly because it's like unpleasant look at what you think this oblivious unaware of the people, faces like a derogatory term for us, maybe, just like an informed right.

00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:09.180 Eric Sarver, Esq.: oblivious has a connotation, of being like if I tell.

00:37:09.810 --> 00:37:10.770 Eric Sarver, Esq.: My pleasure, thank you.

00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:18.900 Eric Sarver, Esq.: olivia to the employees and point of view that term has a negative connotation, of how you're clueless your, and so the pushback is, what do you mean.

00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:26.400 Eric Sarver, Esq.: He is but, but what I say is let's listen to the employee experience, so this isn't to their story or narrative right.

00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:31.650 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I tell this to clients I get pushback but I explained, is that if you actually listen to the employer perspective.

00:37:32.190 --> 00:37:41.400 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And they have to begin putting the policies it may be a little uncomfortable at first, but in the long run, that you'll have a more harmonious company with less termination if you're launching.

00:37:41.820 --> 00:37:47.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Tonight, you have to do the pain for work right sort of introspection and self reflection to get to a better place.

00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:49.890 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I think greatness.

00:37:50.340 --> 00:38:03.510 Emily Williams: Absolutely absolutely I agree with that and we know that when employees feel heard when they feel supported and when they have time and space to do the work in the ways that they need they actually.

00:38:03.750 --> 00:38:22.260 Emily Williams: are much better right and they'll stay at their workplace much longer than if they're you know sort of constantly bumping up against you know, a management structure that's not listening to them or that's providing resistance in response to them, raising you know concerns.

00:38:22.890 --> 00:38:28.920 Emily Williams: That, in many cases, you know that they certainly feel are valid in in, and I would likely agree.

00:38:31.530 --> 00:38:50.130 Emily Williams: yeah and I, I think, to you know sort of psychologically, it can be you know, there can be a lot of fear associated with admitting discriminatory impact or meeting discrimination right, and so I think employers, you know shy away from that.

00:38:51.750 --> 00:38:59.580 Emily Williams: But you know, the amount of research about discrimination against people of color against women of color particularly.

00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:15.480 Emily Williams: And the amount of expertise that's available to help address those problems, I would really encourage you know business owners CEOs managers to really proactive about you know sort of addressing their policies and practices.

00:39:15.510 --> 00:39:16.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: To ensure that.

00:39:16.590 --> 00:39:20.370 Emily Williams: Are not discriminatory in nature oren impact.

00:39:21.210 --> 00:39:24.120 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Absolutely Emily hundreds at 100% there.

00:39:25.170 --> 00:39:35.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: is interesting because, like what I hear you saying there are a few things here number one I hear you saying that maybe some of the perhaps the blocks right the defense of this and from employers are owners of companies.

00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:48.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: recognize like discrimination might be from they're not listening to you and hearing the experience of their pay employees women of color people of color because if you don't hear their experience say and your belief system is that.

00:39:49.530 --> 00:39:57.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The workplace is 100% a meritocracy when we're all even and hardware get rewarded and lasers think does not then you're going to.

00:39:58.380 --> 00:40:05.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Be what will why people putting on this work hard, if they want to get higher better place, but if they hear that someone has been working very hard.

00:40:05.550 --> 00:40:25.410 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know here's the 60 hour weeks a young, you know associated affirm who's black and female and getting Passover infusions or harassing for migration is headed, you know is that lobbied her way it's hard to you know to cure that really take it in and not change your perspective.

00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:43.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think, and I think I agree with you that you know it's in everyone's interest again employees any employee to to point this out and to your point it's hard to admit racism, the request because we're so afraid who harsh punishment, maybe that speaks to like do we need to.

00:40:44.970 --> 00:40:55.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Look at discrimination runs over maybe it's for punishment required, but if it's implicit in certain policies needs to be rolled out and viewed and changed.

00:40:56.340 --> 00:41:11.670 Eric Sarver, Esq.: His does this harsh sort of penal like punishment approaching does it so that's like stall progress, like our leader saying I don't want to talk about this issue because i'm afraid to be a lawsuit from this and that's maybe an interesting point I wonder.

00:41:12.090 --> 00:41:23.160 Emily Williams: Well Eric you know it's interesting because you know, in my experience it's much more often the case that you know women of color actually have raised their concerns.

00:41:24.090 --> 00:41:38.760 Emily Williams: And they experienced retaliation in response right which then led to more harsh harsh or consequences for the company or the organization, so you know even from a legal standpoint.

00:41:39.720 --> 00:41:46.890 Emily Williams: Employers would be well served to actually listen and believe women of color when they come forward the first time.

00:41:47.070 --> 00:41:55.920 Emily Williams: Right, because then doesn't get it it doesn't have to go to the links of a lawsuit or other legal consequences.

00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:07.560 Emily Williams: Because the women of color was listened to and the organization address her concerns and actually address the problem right, but so oftentimes.

00:42:07.560 --> 00:42:16.590 Emily Williams: We see that right and that goes back in some cases back to these earlier points where I made about the stereotypes about women of color.

00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:22.140 Emily Williams: Their you know their contributions are not always valued in the workplace.

00:42:23.670 --> 00:42:26.730 Emily Williams: That that creates problems for employers as well.

00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:45.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Absolutely very good point there, well, I think, really well made a point and and yeah I think we are ready to take a look at these issues in the workplace and you're very complex and they're deeply rooted I think in generations of police systems like about one another.

00:42:46.110 --> 00:42:54.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: in getting to your point that women need to be heard, listen to you, you know what does that say about that you mentioned the legal aspects I litigate for living.

00:42:55.110 --> 00:43:05.130 Eric Sarver, Esq.: fan companies and you try to comply with the law and I represent employees as well, I can't tell you how many times like a lawsuit maybe when you boil it down.

00:43:05.640 --> 00:43:14.610 Eric Sarver, Esq.: somewhere along the line and communication link broke down which either lead to symmetry events being occurring or being condone or that to.

00:43:15.600 --> 00:43:26.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Something miscommunication and some hard feelings that you say someone that may have stayed and worked out an issue, instead of leaving and consuming so.

00:43:26.580 --> 00:43:33.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: it's a really, I think, important, I think it's a good point you raised, and essentially shake your all your feedback is great, I mean it kind of brings me to a question.

00:43:34.530 --> 00:43:41.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: which I was about to ask you, but I think they were in coming up another commercial break, I think that first and then i'll ask the question.

00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:51.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: or actually maybe I can pose the question to you defer to think about you know which is maybe a little more about like what is the the.

00:43:52.410 --> 00:44:02.280 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Employee side the perspective that you're hearing, I gave some talks about listening to the employees, like what are some maybe a concrete example you gave some before, but if.

00:44:02.670 --> 00:44:19.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A we can take that on the break after the break I should say, for now, I say we need to go to commercial break you're watching or listening to you and planet today I guess tonight very, very informed very, very articulate Emily Williams and so stick around we'll be right back.

00:46:19.080 --> 00:46:21.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome to today.

00:46:23.310 --> 00:46:24.180 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A lot this is.

00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:26.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: My guest anyway, as.

00:46:29.130 --> 00:46:29.880 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I mentioned the beginning.

00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:35.400 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Dedicated coach advocate for color the workplace design.

00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:44.310 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Specialist and she found her company or whatever global so I just have one quick question from earlier, and we did you give him so much detail.

00:46:44.670 --> 00:47:01.230 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think the question was going to ask you, but maybe it's just a one example, we can employ inside perspective if you're hearing most women of color as to how they may harm by some of the pandemic related words policies and a review any others, you can think of.

00:47:03.540 --> 00:47:12.270 Emily Williams: Sure, well, I think one thing that's really important to talk about that it's not necessarily pandemic related, but that has come about in the pandemic.

00:47:12.330 --> 00:47:15.450 Emily Williams: Is that women of color have really been tasked with.

00:47:15.450 --> 00:47:30.090 Emily Williams: doing much of the diversity equity and inclusion work and that has come that's a workload that's in addition to the regular work responsibilities and if any cases that has not come with additional pay.

00:47:31.230 --> 00:47:32.970 Emily Williams: or recognition right.

00:47:33.090 --> 00:47:52.170 Emily Williams: And you know I hear that time and again that you know women of color really want their employers to take diversity equity and inclusion seriously one way that they can do that is by making by compensating you know those who are doing the work.

00:47:52.590 --> 00:47:59.250 Emily Williams: But also integrating that into the leadership models within the organization right.

00:47:59.640 --> 00:48:03.540 Emily Williams: You know there's a real call to go beyond diversity statements right.

00:48:03.810 --> 00:48:12.270 Emily Williams: that we really do need to integrate this into the workplace culture in more ways than you know, a one off training, for example.

00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:17.940 Emily Williams: I think the other thing is that we're seeing just huge amounts of burnout right.

00:48:19.290 --> 00:48:28.080 Emily Williams: As, particularly women have you know are juggling their jobs, also when children are in and out of school even still.

00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:47.940 Emily Williams: You know that's increased pressure it's increased stress and so we're seeing a lot of burnout right and so um you know many of my clients are also calling for workplace policies that really do address workplace burnout and also just provide more flexibility.

00:48:50.160 --> 00:48:53.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Does a great thing great examples, thank you know great I think.

00:48:54.390 --> 00:49:00.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: we're being specific about what women of color in the workplace, like you're experiencing and yes it's you know, companies can invite.

00:49:01.350 --> 00:49:10.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: People to the table to share their experience but don't tag them with basically being a de facto enforcer of you know all the diversity and equity.

00:49:10.470 --> 00:49:17.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: initiatives and if you're going to do that offer compensation for the extra work right I think it's really, really good points and I.

00:49:18.120 --> 00:49:35.340 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I you know, speaking of work, and on top of that, you weren't raised so I mentioned several times, but you founded your company, for whatever global, which I think you mentioned addresses migration to the workplace and coaches women of color to thrive, despite everyday challenges and work.

00:49:36.870 --> 00:49:51.720 Eric Sarver, Esq.: question for you, is it, can you tell us a county is definitely help businesses to recognize a remedy some of their let's say too much or a policy that we spoke about that maybe disparate disproportionately damage and impact women of color the workplace.

00:49:51.900 --> 00:49:54.930 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah absolutely you do it for whatever global yeah.

00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.300 Emily Williams: thanks for that question Eric I.

00:49:59.100 --> 00:50:08.700 Emily Williams: We have a four part process to address micro aggressions in the workplace and that process includes a structural and policy analysis.

00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:22.410 Emily Williams: to determine if there are any exclusions of women of color or people of color and if there are any negative impacts on those groups and that's a consultative process, so we really sit down with.

00:50:22.470 --> 00:50:22.890 Emily Williams: Members of.

00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:23.730 groups.

00:50:25.050 --> 00:50:33.060 Emily Williams: And then make policy recommendations to the employers about what they need, and then also have any of the policies need to be amended.

00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:48.510 Emily Williams: We also offer one to one advising to business owners and to employers to assist them and getting outside of their comfort zones, so that they can effectively lead these shifts.

00:50:48.570 --> 00:51:03.390 Emily Williams: Right to become more inclusive or more responsive organization in our advising results in increased trust from their employees increase from their employees and then increase integrity as a leader.

00:51:04.740 --> 00:51:08.280 Emily Williams: And then, finally, you know, one of the biggest.

00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:18.810 Emily Williams: complaints that I get from women of color is that they do not have the support that they need to navigate the unique challenges that we experience in the workplace.

00:51:19.860 --> 00:51:33.600 Emily Williams: We offer a community that provides expert coaching and resources to support women in navigating these everyday challenges, and we do offer a company membership to that Community for women of color.

00:51:35.670 --> 00:51:42.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So that's great right there and services and you've got another consulting the advising the support of the sport of infrastructure in place.

00:51:43.170 --> 00:51:47.790 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And so, working with the businesses and the owner that also working with the employees as well.

00:51:48.540 --> 00:52:01.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: it's interesting out a lot of companies take an either or approach there on the employer side employee side and he was shows the dichotomy rate as a you know one versus the other sort of a versus B, instead of being A and B working together.

00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:15.030 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Interestingly, can you work with companies like here locally nationally like what is your reach beyond the metro New York state or whether you're actually metro area, or is it throughout the country or.

00:52:15.300 --> 00:52:20.340 Emily Williams: yeah we work with yeah we work with companies nationally yeah right across.

00:52:21.090 --> 00:52:24.900 Emily Williams: The country, not only in on the east coast.

00:52:25.290 --> 00:52:33.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right right I think it's an interesting thing to see I imagine sort of some of the differences in issues.

00:52:33.930 --> 00:52:48.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Cross country and yet some of the starcraft similarities, where you can be in wyoming or New York City and be a person of color in the workforce and have maybe some of the same stories of IMAC regression, I imagine you might be there, I think i've seen this before.

00:52:50.010 --> 00:52:50.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right.

00:52:50.820 --> 00:52:56.490 Emily Williams: Absolutely, yes it's actually much more common that you know that i'm noting the similarities.

00:52:57.810 --> 00:53:15.870 Emily Williams: In with respect to women of color is experiences, but also with respect to how the organization or an employer responds, I think that that also speaks to you know sort of what has been normalized in our workplace cultures over the last several decades so.

00:53:17.130 --> 00:53:30.900 Emily Williams: So there's not much geographic difference in the problems that come up or the responses and you know Eric to your earlier point you know, for whatever global We really do see it as two sides of the same coin.

00:53:31.170 --> 00:53:36.690 Emily Williams: One coaching women of color to navigate the challenges that they experience every day at work.

00:53:37.890 --> 00:53:42.030 Emily Williams: In supporting their leadership and advocacy for policies that.

00:53:43.260 --> 00:53:50.760 Emily Williams: will improve the situation, while also working with the leaders of that organization or of that workplace to shift the culture.

00:53:50.850 --> 00:53:51.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, because you.

00:53:52.590 --> 00:54:02.160 Emily Williams: Only have to rely on women of color to come forward and say listen change needs to happen because people are being harmed right, we also need or nations to be proactive and saying.

00:54:02.550 --> 00:54:15.660 Emily Williams: Listen, we stand for something better, we stand for a different culture and it's the one market on this process, and you know when we have action on both ends and both sides of the coin.

00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:15.990 Then.

00:54:17.010 --> 00:54:20.010 Emily Williams: Right, then we see shifts and organizational cultures.

00:54:20.550 --> 00:54:25.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Yes, I think, I think, where they can quietly really is, you know it's it really is.

00:54:25.890 --> 00:54:34.440 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A phrase you use two sides, the same coin, really, in that they work in synergy with each other, which I think is when you think about sort of the underlying ideal the model of ideal.

00:54:35.040 --> 00:54:42.000 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Business or company or plant is that you've got harmony between the workers and the employers and employees right.

00:54:42.510 --> 00:54:50.070 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Employment and see the owner or the manager Supervisor to hire folks together to get the work done and the actual are worker bees, who.

00:54:50.520 --> 00:55:01.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: get things completed your task on cover take care of that that's out of alignment it's like not about taking taking a side of one versus the other but trying to bring the boats, the same.

00:55:01.950 --> 00:55:09.390 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Certainly table, I think, a good negotiator would often say what commonalities we have here between the parties, how can we bring them towards a common objective.

00:55:09.810 --> 00:55:16.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: which may look different for different sides of it, but I think the ultimate objective might be the same right employee wants to have.

00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:29.130 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A workplace like where they can feel safe and value and work without the interruption to discrimination and the employer wants a good productive employees happy and getting their work done so.

00:55:29.550 --> 00:55:30.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think it's a win.

00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:37.860 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah women to you that you provide, and you know we've got three minutes left in the show, because the faster you having fun here, I believe that.

00:55:38.160 --> 00:55:50.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I loved doing the show every week so at this point in the show I usually turn the MIC over to you for two minutes you can tell sure about how to meet your your contact information if you have any coming up your own podcast workshop book.

00:55:51.630 --> 00:55:53.790 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Get two minutes of floors yours i'll take this out.

00:55:54.450 --> 00:56:01.620 Emily Williams: Great alright Thank you so much Eric, this is an interview, so you can find me at.

00:56:03.030 --> 00:56:13.290 Emily Williams: linkedin Emily R Williams and you know there's many videos regarding workplace culture and the impacts for women of color on my linkedin page.

00:56:14.310 --> 00:56:27.060 Emily Williams: Also visit our website at WW dot forward ever and then you can also reach me directly at Emily at Ford ever

00:56:30.690 --> 00:56:43.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: That that information great to know if you work with companies in different different parts of the country, as you mentioned that weekend for people to have that in mind, and we work with different organizations and people like.

00:56:44.580 --> 00:56:57.450 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah so I well, I think we had such a big topic and I really hope people take it to heart what we're discussing here with an open mind right and whatever side to ask me.

00:56:59.430 --> 00:57:13.470 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I will say things like tune in Tuesdays at 5pm 6pm Eastern standard time where we have guests, such as Emily Williams and others, you talk about posting together issues that we face.

00:57:13.980 --> 00:57:20.580 Eric Sarver, Esq.: As a business owner space as well and we'll delve into some of these hard conversations that are ultimately what's happening.

00:57:21.630 --> 00:57:35.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You can tune in Tuesdays at five to talk radio and invoicing i'm your host erick soccer and is there any parting message that's pretty low spot there anything sort of afraid that Mr pokemon having left in the show when they get another.

00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:39.720 Emily Williams: yeah sure thanks yeah I would just again encourage.

00:57:39.750 --> 00:57:49.860 Emily Williams: business owners employers to really with listen when women of color come forward with a complaint or with a statement about you know something relating to the culture.

00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:51.960 Emily Williams: And not only is that better for the.

00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:54.540 Emily Williams: workplace it's also better for the woman of color.

00:57:55.980 --> 00:58:00.240 Emily Williams: And yeah and I think that there is a positive future, when we do that.

00:58:01.140 --> 00:58:14.310 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Excellent Emily Williams Thank you so much once again folks i'm your host erick Sabra learn a lot today today stay tuned rather talk to nyc for great programs and we'll see you back next week and we thank you so much.

00:58:14.610 --> 00:58:15.390 Emily Williams: Thank you Eric.

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