Employment Law Today

Tuesday, December 7, 2021
Facebook Live Video from 2021/12/07 - Value Theory 101 For Employers

Facebook Live Video from 2021/12/07 - Value Theory 101 For Employers


2021/12/07 - Value Theory 101 For Employers

[NEW EPISODE] Value Theory 101 For Employers

In the social sciences, value theory examines the methods of how, why, and to what degree people value things, persons, ideas, or objects. Within philosophy, it is also known as ethics or axiology.

How do employers apply value theory in making decisions with regard to their employees? By recognizing one's value system, an employer can determine the optimal course of action around hiring, firing, and creating employee policies.

Join me this Tuesday, December 7th, at 5 pm (EST), on Employment Law Today, with my guest, Stephen Petro, E-Retail Entrepreneur, and Educational Disrupter. Stephen wrote the book (literally!) on Value Theory / Ethics, and he will be sharing his knowledge on this important topic!

Tune in for this informative conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Stephen Petro, a recurring guest, is joining us for tonight’s show. Petro is the founder of Spetro Lifestyle Solutions; he’s also an international author. The topic for tonight is exploring value theory and ethics and how it affects people’s behavior, specifically in business. Stephen never considered himself an entrepreneur at first or considered looking into the field to begin with and the world of business. Throughout the earlier part of his life, Stephen suffered from acne problems which made him want to get into nutrition and diet and how it connected to his general health. While still in school, he started off his business to pay off student loans.

But he ended up being driven to want to build his own business as it’s known today, Spetro which focuses on health and wellness.

Segment 2

Stephen wrote the book Rationality, Virtue, and Liberation: A Post-Dialectical Theory of Value. He goes into detail in some theories of ethics. One of them for example that is talked about here is the theory of human rights conflict. Stephen and Eric connect this to the workplace regarding harassment, or employment during the pandemic. Getting into a practical context , Stephen moves into explaining about how a business owner can’t satisfy everyone at the time, be it shareholders l employees, ect. Talking about leadership, Stephen says that one can use that approach to “bring everyone to the table” and have people's voices heard. In doing so, being heard may be more viable than just getting what one wants as Eric points out.

Segment 3

Coming back from the break, Stephen and Eric continue their conversation about value theory and leadership in business. Stephen talks about how the “culture” in your workplace as a business owner is based on how you work with your employees and who you choose to hire. Leadership is very relevant in how we are communicating with others and affects how employees show and carry themselves. Good leadership is bringing people to the table and allowing your team to have some sort of input. Eric asks Stephen about what things a manager or business owner should keep in mind when it comes to policies and their hiring process. Stephen says that team and team culture is based on proximity. He gives an example of Pixar, who he says built their offices in a way that keeps employees in close proximity. But of course, we are more remote a lot more today, and so we should be flexible on how others and ourselves work in certain environments because human connection as well as trust is powerful.

Segment 4

In the final segment, Stephen talks about how employers use value theory in the workplace currently. He mentions the controversial topics of today related to covid19 such as mask policies and vaccinations. A big part of bringing everyone “to the table” is having enough relationships with your team to the point where you’re aware of their discomforts or what will make them work better. It’s also important to keep the door open for discussion rather than enforce policies and only leave it at that. These qualities help in balancing your role as being authoritative or a leader in general for your team. Eric thanked Stephen Petro for joining him again for this episode. You can connect with Stephen at Stephenpetro411 on Facebook and Instagram to learn more about SPetro Lifestyle Solutions, his book, to chat, ask questions and more!


00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:43.650 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Good evening, welcome to climb a lot today i'm your host erick solver i'm in employment law and business law attorney and I host this weekly live talk radio show and video.

00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:51.390 Eric Sarver, Esq.: broadcasts every Tuesday evening fly from 5pm to 6pm where I have guests on my show and we discuss.

00:00:51.750 --> 00:01:00.870 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The various employment and business related topics that small to medium sized business owners and entrepreneurs are facing during these challenging times.

00:01:01.380 --> 00:01:10.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And so, this evening, in line with that purpose, I am very happy to have on my show a recurring guest Stephen petrol Stephen welcome to the show.

00:01:10.650 --> 00:01:13.020 Stephen Petro: Thank you nice to be here nice to be back.

00:01:13.290 --> 00:01:14.580 Stephen Petro: Yes, good be back.

00:01:15.180 --> 00:01:21.420 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Absolutely Stephen you are on our shelf you recall, we were just talking about this earlier, yes, back in February of 2021.

00:01:21.720 --> 00:01:22.230 Stephen Petro: that's right.

00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:29.160 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah it's just how much changes, how much something changed something stay the same, I suppose, here we are on zoom having this discussion, but.

00:01:29.430 --> 00:01:41.970 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah you know talk about what's new in the in the workplace in the workforce and which might be a good segue I think i'll share with our audience tonight, our topic then i'll give a nice proper instruction for you.

00:01:43.170 --> 00:01:44.400 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Great we'll take it from there.

00:01:45.240 --> 00:01:46.680 Stephen Petro: Alright, thanks again.

00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:58.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: you're welcome Stephen great to have you on so as I mentioned folks my guest tonight here before you is Steven petro Stephen is the founder and the principle of S petrol lifestyle solutions.

00:01:58.770 --> 00:02:07.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: He basically provides consulting services related to nutrition and maintenance of physical health, including healthy weight and sleep hygiene big one.

00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:16.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Stevens true passion, since he was a teenager has been health and wellness, particularly in the areas of integrative health diet and nutrition.

00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:24.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: When Stephen was a teenager his experience and frustration with an acne issue empowered him to search for alternative solutions.

00:02:24.570 --> 00:02:29.790 Eric Sarver, Esq.: When he finally found nutritional solutions for acne he became passionate about researching this field.

00:02:30.300 --> 00:02:40.950 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And many years later, turn this passion into a thriving business, in which he has helped countless people achieve their wellness and fitness goals through a high tech and high touch approach.

00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:49.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The Stephen utilizes a digital platform and a host of digital tools to provide clients with customized wellness solutions.

00:02:49.890 --> 00:03:01.950 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But also work with a team of individuals with specialties in exercise and integrative medicine nutritional coaching and modalities to provide a unique consultative experience.

00:03:02.550 --> 00:03:09.780 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Stephen has worked at St luke's hospital obesity and nutrition research Center he is a published academic author.

00:03:10.200 --> 00:03:18.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And internationally published author in value theory and ethics our topic for tonight in part and he's the former co owner of bone education.

00:03:18.990 --> 00:03:29.310 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A standardized test prep Center in flushing the York Stephen lives in Queens New York and with all that said, like Stephen once again it's really good to have you on the show this evening.

00:03:29.310 --> 00:03:49.860 Stephen Petro: Yes, that's that's quite a lie right quite an introduction Thank you so much for that I appreciate it appreciate it excited to tonight to discuss i'll take a little bit of a pivot and discuss a little bit more of the business aspect of of you know how.

00:03:51.000 --> 00:04:00.060 Stephen Petro: How value theory plays out right haven't haven't really talked to somebody had the opportunity to talk to somebody about that part of my specialty in a while so i'm excited.

00:04:01.050 --> 00:04:12.330 Eric Sarver, Esq.: That sounds great Stephen and actually I think it's a perfect segue into the brief summary for audience tonight, what the topic is what they can expect when they tune in tonight, listening to our show so and our topic as Stephen was.

00:04:13.350 --> 00:04:20.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Just alluding to is we're calling it value theory one on one for employers, making the best decisions for your workforce.

00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:28.770 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And for you employers out there listening tonight business owners in the social sciences value theory examines the methods of how.

00:04:29.220 --> 00:04:37.860 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Why, and to what degree people value things or persons or ideas or objects within philosophy is also known as ethics or X theology.

00:04:38.460 --> 00:04:44.070 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So the question becomes right as Steve mentioned taking into the practical real world experience we're living in.

00:04:44.520 --> 00:05:02.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: How can you as an employer apply value theory in making optimal decisions around hiring firing and creating employee policies so join me this evening with my guests, as I mentioned, Stephen petro he Vito entrepreneur and educational disrupter and internationally, published author.

00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:10.770 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Stephen wrote the book literally on value theory and ethics so they'll be sharing his knowledge with us tonight on this important topic.

00:05:11.250 --> 00:05:12.480 Stephen Petro: So yesterday.

00:05:12.840 --> 00:05:19.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And really glad you're here tonight you know it could bring an energy to the show that we you know I think is really appreciate it.

00:05:20.010 --> 00:05:35.010 Stephen Petro: Oh, thank you, thank you, I appreciate it um yeah so I mean that you sit, you said it pretty well yourself about what value theory is, and I think what what i'll try to do tonight is a little bit more of.

00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:45.660 Stephen Petro: An exploration of a little bit of the theory and understanding, you know what how people value how that affects things in the workplace.

00:05:46.260 --> 00:05:59.040 Stephen Petro: How it affects people's behavior but also i'll be a little theoretical, but then i'm going to go dive right into some practical ways that can actually help business owners right away.

00:05:59.580 --> 00:06:04.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So really make sense, you know I tend to enjoy the the combination of.

00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:13.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: theoretical esoteric and practical as well, whether it's an employment law for my clients or music, you know there's always fun playing the core to note to the songs but.

00:06:13.890 --> 00:06:20.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: understand the music theory makes it kind of interesting too so but before we get into the very top, and I thought it'd be nice for.

00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:33.420 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Our audience tonight today a little bit more about you so i'm curious if you can tell us even more about yourself in terms of like how did you begin your career and then maybe tell us a little bit more about you know your business as PETRA lifestyle solutions.

00:06:33.900 --> 00:06:53.190 Stephen Petro: yeah absolutely so so funny story, I actually never thought of myself as an entrepreneur or never considered that, as you know, as you know, as you kind of laid off for the audience that always had this kind of academic nerd proud, you know academic nerd here background and.

00:06:54.750 --> 00:07:01.320 Stephen Petro: You know I always here's the thing about it, I always wanted to live that kind of lifestyle of being a full time academic nerd so.

00:07:02.520 --> 00:07:08.430 Stephen Petro: And, and as I went through school I realized that you know kind of long story short.

00:07:09.750 --> 00:07:21.150 Stephen Petro: business, which is something that I had never considered before entrepreneurship as a path was was a really great vehicle to be able to bring me from.

00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:41.040 Stephen Petro: You know, wanting that that that kind of lifestyle, but also being able to to fully appreciate fully fully realized that kind of lifestyle so that's kind of what why I went into entrepreneurship, to be more of an academic nerd in the first place, have the freedom to do that.

00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:56.430 Stephen Petro: I was in Grad school at the time, and it really just was from some you know, everybody has student loan stuff going on, so I at that time I had a lot of student loan stuff going on, I was at Columbia and.

00:07:57.570 --> 00:08:04.380 Stephen Petro: And I realized okay I gotta I gotta shake things up a little bit I gotta do things a little different and that's where I got the idea.

00:08:05.460 --> 00:08:15.150 Stephen Petro: To do something with specifically health and nutrition it wasn't a full fledged concept that it is today, or how I have a structure today.

00:08:16.200 --> 00:08:29.280 Stephen Petro: At that time took me, you know quite a while to kind of get my footing in it, but, as you said, in the intro I had some really bad acne situation.

00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:44.280 Stephen Petro: When I was much younger and was able to resolve that quite well using I wouldn't say alternative I don't like to kind of, say, to use that word I mean we like integrative medicine.

00:08:45.660 --> 00:08:50.490 Stephen Petro: Because I think there's no real alternative medicine it's either for me it's either science based or it's not.

00:08:51.840 --> 00:09:03.960 Stephen Petro: Right, so you know it's either science based or it's not in and so yeah I looked into some of the research on this on different nutrients in dietary approaches.

00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:15.870 Stephen Petro: At that time I actually had lost 30 pounds started running so I got really focused on my health and it transformed a lot for me and because of that.

00:09:16.530 --> 00:09:24.180 Stephen Petro: It really got me passionate so it was kind of an old passion that I revisit it and I said, you know what I have, I have some scientific knowledge in this as well.

00:09:24.570 --> 00:09:31.290 Stephen Petro: i'm going to start doing something with it today, so if you want to really distill my business down I am.

00:09:31.650 --> 00:09:39.600 Stephen Petro: I work with a variety of brands in mostly in the health and wellness space, but some other industries as well, and then broker them online.

00:09:40.350 --> 00:09:55.590 Stephen Petro: Through various different platforms, but also, I have a smaller VIP set of VIP clientele that I work with to to just help them enhance their lifestyle i'm not a doctor i'm not you know.

00:09:57.090 --> 00:10:05.040 Stephen Petro: somebody who is curing or preventing or treating disease i'm really helping people enhance their lifestyle so yeah.

00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:12.810 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Interesting a few things you said they're going to take us to the top going back to like you know how you said you didn't really.

00:10:13.260 --> 00:10:22.530 Eric Sarver, Esq.: plan on becoming an entrepreneur I feel like there's a movie out a long time ago called the accidental tourist and I feel like that phrase the exit the business owner, the accidental.

00:10:22.560 --> 00:10:24.420 Eric Sarver, Esq.: entrepreneur right might be a good.

00:10:25.920 --> 00:10:30.810 Eric Sarver, Esq.: No verbal tm on this show you heard it here first or maybe that's actually not the first time has been said, but.

00:10:31.890 --> 00:10:39.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Is that you know that, like idea of how we have some some knowledge right some some in some topic of interest and passion.

00:10:39.630 --> 00:10:39.990 Stephen Petro: yeah.

00:10:40.260 --> 00:10:47.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: could be like you know, driven by a negative experience we had that we then worked on and found the solution to like a here, you mentioned that.

00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:57.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah that equipment, perhaps that your name and your businesses as pressure lifestyle solutions, but so good to hear that, like component that what you shared with tonight and.

00:10:57.330 --> 00:11:10.410 Stephen Petro: yeah you mentioned it's funny I think that happens to you happens fairly often to people, people realize hey you know I can go in this direction, maybe, maybe try to see see how things work and.

00:11:11.190 --> 00:11:20.910 Stephen Petro: You know roll with it, so you know necessity is the mother of invention right so hey it's good thing good thing sometimes.

00:11:21.570 --> 00:11:30.480 Eric Sarver, Esq.: very true very true, so thank you appreciate you mentioned about think having some VIP clients those be to see those consumers or those other businesses as well.

00:11:30.660 --> 00:11:39.210 Stephen Petro: Those are B to C they're actually you know, mostly consumers, I will say there are some B2B but.

00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:53.100 Stephen Petro: B to C personally, is what I work with the most so but, but we do we do work with a few you know clinicians and physicians as well.

00:11:54.330 --> 00:11:56.010 Stephen Petro: clinically as well yeah.

00:11:57.180 --> 00:12:08.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Interesting well that's all really good background and now in an interesting employment law today context we're going to pivot to a whole different topic which is of course the value theory.

00:12:09.540 --> 00:12:19.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Part of the show, and you know before we do I want to note that Stephen wrote a book on value theory and ethics and oh there it is.

00:12:19.620 --> 00:12:20.070 Stephen Petro: right here.

00:12:20.790 --> 00:12:26.880 Eric Sarver, Esq.: virtue and what was the last part the finger liberation right there you know, a post dialectic theory of value.

00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:30.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Yes, yes, so Finally, what was that book, did you write that book Stephen.

00:12:30.870 --> 00:12:32.730 Stephen Petro: 2013 can you believe it.

00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:36.150 Stephen Petro: So I was, I was 23 you can do the math.

00:12:37.560 --> 00:12:39.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: That really 30 3031 okay so.

00:12:39.570 --> 00:12:39.870 Stephen Petro: yeah.

00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:49.650 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Pretty impressive and you know it's funny time flies by we having fun we've got about a minute or so to the commercial break I think i'd much rather.

00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:58.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Take it now rate have worked my sponsors and then come back in here like a fresh clean start to our topic you talk about now you theory theory.

00:12:59.160 --> 00:13:16.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I tell our listeners you're listening to employment law today or you're watching employment law today i'm your host erick Sava employment law business law attorney my guest tonight, Stephen petro founder CEO of S petro lifestyle solutions stick around we'll be right back.

00:15:29.880 --> 00:15:38.880 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to implement a lot today i'm your host erick Sabra here tonight with my guest Stephen petro founder of S PETRA lifestyle solutions.

00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:40.920 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Stephen welcome back to the show.

00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:42.150 Stephen Petro: Thank you.

00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:47.370 Eric Sarver, Esq.: All right, yep good to good to have you with us tonight we're we're talking about.

00:15:48.660 --> 00:15:58.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: a topic which is we're calling it value theory one on one for employers, making the best decisions for your workforce talking about the application of this philosophical.

00:15:59.670 --> 00:16:10.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: system belief, or rather theory to the everyday life so Stephen you wrote the book or a book on value three and ethics, what is the premise of your book and your title again.

00:16:11.040 --> 00:16:23.370 Stephen Petro: So, so the title is rationality virtue and liberation a post dialectical theory of value, so it is a very it's a it's a text it's an academic texts.

00:16:24.330 --> 00:16:32.220 Stephen Petro: it's originally originally meant for an academic audience, but it doesn't mean that you know you sitting out there can't get it and tackle it.

00:16:32.970 --> 00:16:44.190 Stephen Petro: But I think that with respect to the the premise the premise itself is actually about the the definition of goodness, and the definition of value which.

00:16:44.610 --> 00:16:56.370 Stephen Petro: Previous to this had been a very long, long standing discussion and debate and I just took a different approach to to solving that question.

00:16:56.940 --> 00:17:08.430 Stephen Petro: Then, many others before me had taken, and so I won't discuss so much of that approach, because it's just you know it's it's quite theoretical, but.

00:17:09.030 --> 00:17:21.030 Stephen Petro: One thing I will discuss that I thought is that I think is very, very relevant is the two theories that primarily I I analyzed in the book in order to.

00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:33.090 Stephen Petro: make my point and make my argument which is one that of Alan gore's and that have you're gonna have a muscle it, for, if these names are unfamiliar it's okay i'm going to talk about it.

00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:45.660 Stephen Petro: So Alan go worth talks about heavily talks about rights, improving human rights and improving the logically right he has a really exhaustive logical argument about.

00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:50.760 Stephen Petro: it's actually form holistic, like the tightest craziest.

00:17:52.200 --> 00:18:01.830 Stephen Petro: You know, almost mathematical logic that you can make that you can use and he it's a really, really compelling argument Habermas.

00:18:02.490 --> 00:18:14.670 Stephen Petro: takes a different approaches in the sphere called discourse ethics or communicative ethics and I think that's where we get really, really relevant when we talk about the workplace and we talk about.

00:18:16.020 --> 00:18:17.130 Stephen Petro: business ethics.

00:18:18.390 --> 00:18:37.890 Stephen Petro: So practically speaking where i've seen you know the question for go worth is, what do you do when you're talking about rights and human rights, what do you do when these rights conflict, he never really addressed that and in a practical setting What do you do when they conflict.

00:18:39.870 --> 00:18:46.320 Stephen Petro: You know I actually carried out several specific scenarios or classic dilemmas and specific.

00:18:47.070 --> 00:19:03.300 Stephen Petro: Specific scenarios to kind of look at that and look at his theory with regards to that with regards to the communicative ethics and I think it's highly relevant to business because the more i've been in business, I mean I wrote this in 2013.

00:19:03.600 --> 00:19:04.080 Stephen Petro: yeah it's.

00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:05.400 Stephen Petro: it's now right.

00:19:05.970 --> 00:19:08.100 Stephen Petro: The more i've learned about businesses i've done business and.

00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:18.720 Stephen Petro: interact with business owners, is the number one most relevant concepts to communicative ethics or discourse of ethics is leadership with respect to business leadership.

00:19:19.530 --> 00:19:27.840 Stephen Petro: And it's a very loaded term but it solves working on leadership in our own businesses, whatever that is self a lot of issues.

00:19:29.130 --> 00:19:36.180 Stephen Petro: So that's a little bit of the premise, you might have some more questions to dig into but i'll leave it there for now.

00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:39.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think it's an excellent to recap some restart.

00:19:41.010 --> 00:19:51.390 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Of these are two basic different theories, in that I like how you kept it, you know I mean you're welcome to get more theoretical, but you know you want also keep it practical and they share that with me as well.

00:19:52.410 --> 00:19:59.970 Eric Sarver, Esq.: what's interesting is that you talked about that you know right the first theory that humans are the rights theory about improving human rights what to do when rights conflict.

00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:05.880 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And you know what's fascinating is like I wish that I think we're kind of seeing that playing out before our eyes.

00:20:06.120 --> 00:20:13.650 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah all the time, especially now, these last like say you know, like a year year and a half for selling with coven 19 epidemic with.

00:20:14.250 --> 00:20:22.920 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, employee right six eight to safety, you know into our employers desires rights to have water and safety, you know in their workplace.

00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:30.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The government's compounding interest in protecting people's rights to certain health and well being and then of course the.

00:20:30.690 --> 00:20:39.030 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Please might argue summit argues the right, you know for more freedom and autonomy over their choices in regards to health and the vaccine which can be a whole other.

00:20:39.540 --> 00:20:50.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Show or a series of shows, but I think it just it was interesting is like the the theory about the rights conflicting is the underlying question what whose rights are.

00:20:51.690 --> 00:20:54.600 Eric Sarver, Esq.: valued higher and how do you value those rights are.

00:20:54.930 --> 00:21:02.010 Stephen Petro: Like yeah so it's an interesting question so so according to Gore theory.

00:21:03.270 --> 00:21:06.960 Stephen Petro: So, so he lays it out and again and painstaking detail.

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:20.730 Stephen Petro: That and concludes that you know we all have rights to freedom and well being in terms of there are positive rights and there are negative right so negative rates meaning freedom from.

00:21:21.540 --> 00:21:31.020 Stephen Petro: You know you have freedom from let's say if it's an employment situation freedom from harassment or freedom from you know being forced to do something.

00:21:31.410 --> 00:21:41.310 Stephen Petro: Something that may be injurious to yourself what have you you don't want to or otherwise don't want to do, for some reason and rights to meaning.

00:21:42.390 --> 00:22:03.990 Stephen Petro: Positive rights meaning if if you let's say if you're hungry right you're starving society or somebody in the society has a duty to you have a right to to food right something like that so um it's quite interesting now yeah he doesn't completely answer.

00:22:05.820 --> 00:22:23.010 Stephen Petro: Because his is a Meta ethical theory meaning it's it's the starting point, we don't apply it to dilemmas yet, but with regards to dilemmas so typically utilitarian approach would be well what makes people, the most happy, on the whole right.

00:22:24.090 --> 00:22:33.930 Stephen Petro: For him it's what satisfies everybody's rights what how, what is the approach that we can get the closest dissatisfying everybody's rights.

00:22:34.560 --> 00:22:52.890 Stephen Petro: Completely at once there is no waiting of rights in this case Habermas editing has a has a very good way of accounting for that, so we can't it be kind of underlying his idea is is this implication that.

00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:58.050 Stephen Petro: We as humans, we really can't figure it out.

00:22:58.530 --> 00:23:05.580 Stephen Petro: Without engaging and in a discourse without engaging getting everybody all the stakeholders together essentially.

00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:11.070 Stephen Petro: But he makes a point of hope that people having equal power in the situation.

00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:18.180 Stephen Petro: So everybody involved in the situation or who is affected by the any decision.

00:23:19.950 --> 00:23:36.060 Stephen Petro: They should be able to agree to it and it's actually in unanimity so as you can imagine, it would take a process of deliberation for everybody to agree in unity unity OK now let's get a little practical.

00:23:36.270 --> 00:23:39.450 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah no should, I think it's great you know great background and context in.

00:23:39.450 --> 00:23:49.890 Eric Sarver, Esq.: theory and you know for sure, I think I see companies today engaging that discourse trying to satisfy all the rights as much as possible with their shareholders employers, employees.

00:23:51.090 --> 00:23:56.190 Eric Sarver, Esq.: you're about to take it into a into the cut the business practical context and i'm all yours yeah.

00:23:56.610 --> 00:24:09.930 Stephen Petro: yeah so so we we get into a practical contracts and let's be real we can't satisfy all of everybody's rights at the same time we constantly I mean I don't think you can think of a situation that's perfect.

00:24:10.560 --> 00:24:11.130 Stephen Petro: Where.

00:24:11.430 --> 00:24:23.160 Stephen Petro: You can satisfy everybody, at the same time, so here's where we get into and I don't think I haven't seen literature on it, maybe it's a different book that I write.

00:24:24.750 --> 00:24:32.940 Stephen Petro: On leadership and they haven't seen this in a philosophical sense, I think, no offense to the philosopher's because not enough of them do business but.

00:24:34.110 --> 00:24:35.880 Stephen Petro: i'm sure more of them to do business.

00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:36.480 So.

00:24:37.890 --> 00:24:52.860 Stephen Petro: it's, yes, but leadership is is so let's talk about leadership leadership being influence according to john C Maxwell right, then we should be.

00:24:55.170 --> 00:25:16.230 Stephen Petro: As a leader, you know you can't appeal to everybody right, but we can still use that approach that I think Habermas it has has emphasized use that approach of really making sure we are bringing everybody to the table, who is involved in decision or affected by the decision and.

00:25:17.490 --> 00:25:27.330 Stephen Petro: At least have people be heard and i'm going to go from you know where philosophy or ethics is there and and legal theory is you know.

00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:37.440 Stephen Petro: To is very logical, but the thing is that people it's not meant as an offense but people in general we don't think logically.

00:25:38.370 --> 00:25:56.520 Stephen Petro: You know what let's say somebody in our team expresses a concern many times, the concern is from an emotional place of not being not feeling heard or feeling like they're being forced something like this, or.

00:25:57.600 --> 00:26:10.650 Stephen Petro: You know it's it comes many times, from a feeling, but just many times, bringing somebody to the table and discussing the concern and really listening, I can solve it of course it's not that easy.

00:26:11.130 --> 00:26:28.980 Stephen Petro: not that simple, because it's also that's also a process, but I think that's something that's that you know if we take that approach as a leader, you can actually influence more people in your team and have a better solid team ethic.

00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:34.020 Stephen Petro: influence meant in a very positive way here not and you know.

00:26:34.260 --> 00:26:34.800 Stephen Petro: You know it.

00:26:35.310 --> 00:26:41.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah if I go to events even because I think I want to emphasize a party tonight emphasized in terms of something you said.

00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:49.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: was interesting is that it's really great what you're describing in terms of the well both theories, but the discourse through the Community academic theory of ethics and value.

00:26:51.120 --> 00:26:57.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: wearing people will come to the table and have more discussions and keeping people involved to be heard those those.

00:26:58.350 --> 00:27:01.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: thoughts topical underpinnings like that theory i've seen it.

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:12.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: being applied more and more by diversity and inclusion experts we've had on the show tonight and employment law today folks like like Simone slow and your attorneys like nance chick.

00:27:13.230 --> 00:27:20.670 Eric Sarver, Esq.: we've heard it through you know HR company that HR consultants like mark Roberts but we hear a lot about companies, you know, trying to.

00:27:21.150 --> 00:27:31.950 Eric Sarver, Esq.: bring people to the conversation, and they feel heard, and in doing so right when people are heard it's like they actually that might be one of their needs, is to be heard.

00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:32.580 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know.

00:27:32.850 --> 00:27:41.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Arguably, the right to be heard might be more valuable to them and getting everything they want or all their rights met and whether that's.

00:27:41.550 --> 00:27:50.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: What are the employees, so I think it's interesting point about leadership, and you know, making decisions like not from just one to own mind, but what is my team has to say about this.

00:27:51.120 --> 00:28:04.140 Stephen Petro: yeah exactly and many times, you know as a leader or you're the business owner many times it's like well it's my business I you know they can take it or leave it right they.

00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:08.430 Stephen Petro: But I want to follow up on this on the commercial after the commercial break.

00:28:09.120 --> 00:28:26.730 Stephen Petro: Basically, I think it has a practical very practical side it's not only ethical and the right thing to do to be to utilize this this approach that actually it's a cost savings and a very practical thing to do as well, from a personal preservation side so.

00:28:26.820 --> 00:28:42.600 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, so I think we're saying is that the theoretical and practical kind of can sort of meet their in that what's actually perhaps in the best interest from ethics point of view can actually be in the best interest in the bottom line dollar point of view.

00:28:42.630 --> 00:28:45.900 Stephen Petro: Absolutely absolutely unquestionable unquestionable.

00:28:46.230 --> 00:28:49.620 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah not not that i'm actually opposed or anything like that.

00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:58.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, we have a commercial break coming up now, and so, when we perhaps we'll revisit that topics, even when we get back.

00:28:58.650 --> 00:29:03.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: From our break and for those listening tonight tuned into employment law today.

00:29:03.780 --> 00:29:13.080 Eric Sarver, Esq.: you're listening to our show on value 311 for employers the practical guide to making the best decisions for your workforce to stick around employment law today.

00:29:13.650 --> 00:29:24.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: i'm your host erick solver my guest tonight value three author and entrepreneur Stephen petro we're here live on talk radio nyc stick around we'll be right back.

00:31:28.950 --> 00:31:37.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to employment law today i'm your host erick savoured here today my guest Stephen petro petro lifestyle solutions.

00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:46.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And we're talking about value theory and ethics and basically how to apply some of these philosophical theories in practicality and right pragmatic concrete terms to.

00:31:47.760 --> 00:31:59.010 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The workforce to employers who making and setting policies around like hiring firing and around their employees and such and so Stephen again great to have you on the show this evening that add your name is megan.

00:31:59.670 --> 00:32:07.590 Stephen Petro: Thank you, thank you, I i've really enjoyed this discussion, I mean you know before the break we're talking a little bit about.

00:32:09.060 --> 00:32:19.590 Stephen Petro: The bottom line right how how this affects the bottom line, and I think you know, there are two aspects to it there, on the one side.

00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:34.380 Stephen Petro: In terms of leadership let's just make this a little bit more concrete on one side, we want to bring everybody together to the table right, but at the same time we we can't also afford to.

00:32:35.520 --> 00:32:52.740 Stephen Petro: To to take every grievance into account to take everything into account, there is a certain efficiency by which a business needs to run but also we just can't oblige every single opinion or disagreement So how do we navigate this so a lot of it comes from.

00:32:53.850 --> 00:33:11.280 Stephen Petro: You know, again, this word is thrown around a lot but culture right what culture you're creating in the in the workplace, how you're even selecting the team in the first place, and how you're interviewing right is is a huge deal, but I remember when I was running the the test prep agency.

00:33:12.420 --> 00:33:26.580 Stephen Petro: You know, one of the things, of course, we all make mistakes when we run a business too, so you know I I recalled, we would never want to lose a good teacher right number one is you never want to lose a good teacher, so you want to.

00:33:27.990 --> 00:33:36.390 Stephen Petro: Try to work with them as much as possible, and you never want to lose good people, one of the things that.

00:33:38.790 --> 00:33:43.020 Stephen Petro: In terms of like employee employee retention retention.

00:33:43.770 --> 00:33:45.150 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Good one yes great.

00:33:46.080 --> 00:33:55.530 Stephen Petro: We pay so much we invest so much in training right as a business owner you invest a lot in training it's both time and its finances.

00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:11.760 Stephen Petro: And so to rehire somebody because you lost them because the culture is not there and it seems like this spooky thing, but again, it comes back to the way people communicate with each other, there are so many good books on this to read.

00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:24.780 Stephen Petro: I would really highly encourage it does when you didn't get didn't get into communicative ethics and Okay, bringing people to the table right, you have to ask them what are you communicating about how are you communicating.

00:34:25.080 --> 00:34:26.580 Stephen Petro: Right, what is the tone.

00:34:26.820 --> 00:34:27.660 Stephen Petro: That we're setting.

00:34:28.890 --> 00:34:38.550 Stephen Petro: Those are important questions that ultimately affects retention the effect, whether you know the person who hired is just coming to work because it's a paycheck.

00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:42.480 Stephen Petro: Or whether they're coming because they're aligned with some vision they're passionate about what they do.

00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:54.540 Stephen Petro: They they they love working with you, they love working with the team they feel a sense of purpose in what they're doing and also they feel heard and listened to that's a hard thing, and I think many.

00:34:55.290 --> 00:35:04.950 Stephen Petro: Many business owners, I think there's a growing conscious of it, but many business owners kind of like well I own a business what I own a shop like I own whatever it is.

00:35:05.310 --> 00:35:12.750 Stephen Petro: And why do I care about leadership right well because it sounds abstract, but when you come down to all these things that are so important.

00:35:13.170 --> 00:35:23.400 Stephen Petro: You see how relevant, it is all right yeah, so I think it's so important go back to personal development and professional development.

00:35:23.940 --> 00:35:42.030 Stephen Petro: Skills but also internal personal development, working on our so how am I showing upon me communicating what what do I lack what do I need to work on personally that will create the culture and the business ultimately so anyway that's a little bit of application.

00:35:42.600 --> 00:35:49.950 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Absolutely, and I think it's very good application of like this theory, you know I think you started out with the interesting point you made after the commercial break Stephen, which is that you're right.

00:35:51.150 --> 00:35:56.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: While it's like in theory, like the initial the first theory about the right space, you know, I think, be great if, like we can you know have.

00:35:57.600 --> 00:36:01.080 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A everyone's rights all satisfied at once at the most possible.

00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:12.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: not always a real reality because rights people's desires needs tend to conflict, the time then be right, your other point which is like you know one on one hand you're right that.

00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:18.810 Eric Sarver, Esq.: communicative ethics right good leadership is bringing people into the table, but you also made a good point in that.

00:36:19.260 --> 00:36:26.370 Eric Sarver, Esq.: For those listening tonight, like you want to bring people to the table on big decisions, but clearly a business won't be able to run smoothly efficiently.

00:36:26.730 --> 00:36:38.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: If you know let's say every decision has been run by you know get all their employees you got to hear you know brought back servers off today could bring them in you know, should we have you know great gel you know sandwiches or pizza for the holiday, but you know party so.

00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:39.990 Stephen Petro: yeah yeah yeah.

00:36:40.200 --> 00:36:45.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know orange we change stationary you know to this color like you can't and of course that's hyperbole exam.

00:36:45.270 --> 00:36:47.640 Stephen Petro: And people can also take advantage of you that way.

00:36:48.150 --> 00:36:49.770 Stephen Petro: it's possible for people to.

00:36:49.770 --> 00:37:01.470 Stephen Petro: take advantage of that, so it is a balance that it's almost like there's no logic about it, then it's an art that must be learned with practice as well.

00:37:01.830 --> 00:37:07.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But that's I think part of your next point which is like you know what I hear what I hear you saying if i'm hearing correctly.

00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:13.530 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Like yeah there's no exact science it's an art in terms of how you decide to see what decisions that people were involved with.

00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:20.130 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But if you're in tune with yourself right how you can, how can I be a better leader, how can I communicate, how can I lead my team.

00:37:20.730 --> 00:37:30.780 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I imagine that the the the sort of the answer to the question which topic should my employees, be a part of will be what kind of come to you as a leader as an.

00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:31.320 Stephen Petro: upgrade on.

00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:37.080 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yep you'll know any compensation, you know benefits that important it's getting to the table.

00:37:37.740 --> 00:37:45.180 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, changing and structure, you know we organized in the workforce people we remote, you know hybrid or in person that's where they have to say about this and.

00:37:45.810 --> 00:37:54.900 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think you raised some good points there, I think you know it's great to hear like this value theory which people talk about the context of you mentioned aware employee culture.

00:37:55.140 --> 00:38:01.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Internal branding it has lots of names, and here it can be traced back to these very.

00:38:02.550 --> 00:38:09.180 Eric Sarver, Esq.: esoteric philosophical underpinnings and writings from you know quaint philosophers who probably didn't know what the term.

00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:18.900 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Diversity inclusion in the workplace and we're you know we're culture was going to develop, you know, probably under one year those two philosophers you quarter where that 20th century 19th century.

00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:19.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: In the.

00:38:19.560 --> 00:38:39.030 Stephen Petro: 20th century and actually interestingly enough, a lot of the this workplace inclusion these ideas yeah um can be traced back to people like Habermas because he was very influential and there are many programs and things like that they were centered around you know these ideas so yeah.

00:38:39.720 --> 00:38:42.180 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So let's say like you know, keep being on the practical here.

00:38:42.300 --> 00:38:51.390 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Yes, right i'll take say i'm a person, the same tonight watching the show and talk with them, I see or on Facebook and watching the spots in the video version.

00:38:51.780 --> 00:39:03.780 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And, like, I want to know okay so you're not going to be sending some policies like to my employees around the hiring and firing or who's an income work who's coming boat who to be in the office.

00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:12.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So i'm wondering what kind of questions should I, as an employer be asking myself before I sit down to write out these policies right.

00:39:12.390 --> 00:39:15.270 Stephen Petro: yeah so good question, so I think.

00:39:15.330 --> 00:39:15.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Oh yeah yeah.

00:39:16.620 --> 00:39:27.090 Stephen Petro: yeah yeah well with regards to the interview process that's a really interesting one, because i've had a good amount of experience with interview process and things like that and.

00:39:28.050 --> 00:39:38.970 Stephen Petro: With regards to that I think before even start interviewing you have to have an understanding well one of your values and then also who are you bringing on.

00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:47.700 Stephen Petro: That like what is the exact profile of this person that you're looking for not necessarily talking about demographics, because that's not even legal right.

00:39:47.910 --> 00:39:49.320 Stephen Petro: But we're talking about.

00:39:49.650 --> 00:39:50.640 Stephen Petro: we're talking about.

00:39:51.750 --> 00:39:53.220 Stephen Petro: You know values.

00:39:54.990 --> 00:40:14.940 Stephen Petro: you're talking about what would they you know how can you it's beyond skill sets there's actually a study, interestingly enough right love research right because you can always verify and false flag anything right but um with regards to the the startup culture in the.

00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:26.460 Stephen Petro: was in the 90s, when there was a tech bubble there, there were there's a series of studies and people can feel free to reach out to me if you want the citations for this, because it really interesting stuff.

00:40:27.330 --> 00:40:43.710 Stephen Petro: There were a couple of models that were studied it looked at people who got who hired based on skill sets alone, people who hired based on you know where the person went to school and these kinds of things, and then there was another one another.

00:40:44.730 --> 00:40:52.200 Stephen Petro: One looking at how you know what's called the commitment model, so how the people's values aligned.

00:40:52.590 --> 00:41:01.410 Stephen Petro: That those companies actually tended to do better than the ones that selected people just based on skill sets or just based on where they went to school and these kinds of things.

00:41:02.190 --> 00:41:15.360 Stephen Petro: Why why it sounds very airy fairy and up in the air and clouds but the truth is that people emotionally connect the more people emotionally connect and trust each other it's very true.

00:41:16.140 --> 00:41:22.860 Stephen Petro: A lot of the skill sets that you need for your business can be learned and trained, even if somebody is a little deficient and one of them.

00:41:23.490 --> 00:41:37.050 Stephen Petro: And I think building a a recruiting mindset around these around this and some form of that and making it unique to what you know yourself and your company vision is very important.

00:41:37.530 --> 00:41:50.610 Stephen Petro: Number two, I think, with respect to creating these policies work from home and these kinds of things here's the dilemma here's one of the big dilemmas team, culture and team environment is built.

00:41:51.990 --> 00:42:04.980 Stephen Petro: In proximity and much of the time pixar, for instance, uses a physical closeness actually builds the offices in based based on proximity.

00:42:05.310 --> 00:42:11.040 Stephen Petro: So it's very important the you know, making sure people are physically close so.

00:42:11.070 --> 00:42:14.340 Stephen Petro: Right, it helps collaboration so.

00:42:16.080 --> 00:42:18.900 Stephen Petro: Anyway, that I think we don't have time to discuss.

00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:22.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Can you go okay.

00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:23.400 Stephen Petro: yeah so.

00:42:24.750 --> 00:42:32.550 Stephen Petro: So yeah in terms of working remote, I do think it's the future that's one thing that we have to accept number one hands down, we still have to have.

00:42:33.720 --> 00:42:37.560 Stephen Petro: I think, yes, you want to bring people to the table, what do you prefer.

00:42:38.580 --> 00:42:51.900 Stephen Petro: And also, but also keeping some accountability it's not just what you prefer what what makes you more productive right do we see that you're more productive when you're remote or versus in person.

00:42:53.490 --> 00:43:00.540 Stephen Petro: You know that's something you can actually communicate on hey we noticed that you're actually more productive hey more power to you do it this way.

00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:02.010 Stephen Petro: might be a little flexible.

00:43:02.580 --> 00:43:11.880 Stephen Petro: There are other things, to consider with that but, but that is what something that is immediately, something that that would be discussed it could be discussed.

00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:17.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know i've seen this with clients of mine as well steam, with him, employers and business owners out there.

00:43:18.090 --> 00:43:24.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: who were trying to decide these like very policies in their workplace, you know I think it's like you mentioned, you know there's different models and.

00:43:25.410 --> 00:43:42.120 Eric Sarver, Esq.: It doesn't surprise me to learn and to see over and over again i'm not surprised that the employers and the business owners who apply a more well rounded well rounded approach like you know hiring based on values and commitment and loyalty and emotional I guess connection.

00:43:43.590 --> 00:43:52.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: often do better, and I think if you look at it from a philosophical value theory it's like if you know if you value the even to say, the bottom line or the product of the performance.

00:43:54.270 --> 00:44:03.420 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You can tap into that and maximize productivity and morale by choosing people who, with like like minded values and like minded purposes or.

00:44:04.380 --> 00:44:10.590 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So I think it's interesting point again taking the theory, we discussed earlier in the show and putting into practical terms.

00:44:10.890 --> 00:44:16.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think, also your point about the work from home, you know the culture, you know the employer needs to.

00:44:16.650 --> 00:44:33.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Have a be best as leader, to ask you know what helps the end product come together nicely and to put that ahead of us a one's ego that might say, you know I want to be able to be the boss it's my rules, you know it's my it's my shop, nobody my firm mighty name of the door, you know.

00:44:33.630 --> 00:44:36.330 Stephen Petro: But ultimately at the end of the day that attitude is.

00:44:37.530 --> 00:44:44.760 Stephen Petro: ends up, leading to a crash and burn scenario, if not now, in the long term, because you because of that I.

00:44:45.330 --> 00:44:59.370 Stephen Petro: This mindset, you might lead to you might end up not seeing things trends changing that could be helpful information for your business, but just because i'm the boss, and I want to do things my way is really dangerous.

00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:06.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Absolutely Steve I think the screen oh great all great points here and we actually now we'll take our third commercial break.

00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:18.600 Eric Sarver, Esq.: For those listening tonight you're watching or listening to employ Milan today on talk radio nyc i'm your host erick solder, employment law business law attorney and my guest tonight, Stephen petro.

00:45:20.310 --> 00:45:23.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: petro lifestyle solutions stick around we'll be right back.

00:47:23.730 --> 00:47:35.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to implement a lot today and i'm your host erick solver my guest tonight against even petro Stephen isn't only the founder of as pressure lifestyle solutions.

00:47:35.790 --> 00:47:41.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: He also is an author, who wrote a book on value theory and ethics, which is shared with us earlier this evening.

00:47:42.390 --> 00:47:51.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And so we're talking about this, you know value theory right, what is it, how does it apply in everyday life when it comes to being a leader and making employer.

00:47:52.200 --> 00:48:12.630 Eric Sarver, Esq.: policies and decisions around hiring firing promoting so Stephen really good stuff so far and i'm wondering if you can like you know shed a little more light for us on how you do you see value theory being used by employers in the context of like the newly changing post over 19 workforce.

00:48:12.870 --> 00:48:24.780 Stephen Petro: yeah yeah well, so there are two dimensions to this quite honestly there's the dimension that you work with directly, which is the legal side of it, which you know there's the.

00:48:25.410 --> 00:48:38.790 Stephen Petro: The law is the law right period right, so you have to follow the law as a business owner and and so obviously there are legal questions there, I will leave that to your domain, because you are the expert right so.

00:48:39.390 --> 00:48:49.290 Stephen Petro: But but let's let's imagine that you are a business owner and you're dealing with a mask mask policy or no mask policy or.

00:48:51.120 --> 00:48:57.600 Stephen Petro: vaccine or no vaccine, or what have you there are a lot this is most controversial controversial topics right now.

00:48:58.860 --> 00:49:08.190 Stephen Petro: With people so here's here's the thing again leadership comes into play, and one of Lee a part of leadership is being decisive.

00:49:08.640 --> 00:49:18.060 Stephen Petro: Right, so you decisiveness again it's that balance between you know being authoritative and forcing people to do things and.

00:49:18.720 --> 00:49:27.300 Stephen Petro: You know I think let's say you're talking about a mask policy and and that's let's say what's going to make people safe in the workplace.

00:49:28.110 --> 00:49:38.490 Stephen Petro: or even even if you you wanted to, for the sake of argument that people because I don't know people might disagree, or what have you, but even for the sake of argument.

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:45.480 Stephen Petro: Having people feel safe right that's also another consideration right um and if.

00:49:45.990 --> 00:49:53.190 Stephen Petro: You have come to an understanding, I think a big part of communication and coming to the table is really having at least enough relationship.

00:49:53.520 --> 00:50:10.620 Stephen Petro: With your team, such that you kind of know what their discomforts are and their what will make them show up better and what will make them angry or not right, this is an ongoing communication and so as a leader, I think one of the things you have to say is hey.

00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:24.090 Stephen Petro: This is, at the end of the day, like this is the policy, but the reason i'm doing this, is that we, you know we care about the team, we want to keep everybody safe.

00:50:24.600 --> 00:50:32.550 Stephen Petro: If you have issues about it, you want to discuss it, you have concerns, the door is open, I think one of those things again.

00:50:33.240 --> 00:50:42.450 Stephen Petro: comes about keeping the door open if there's a policy concern the worst thing to do is to like shut the door, but at least to have people know the door is open.

00:50:42.990 --> 00:50:50.370 Stephen Petro: We can discuss it, it doesn't mean i'm going to say yes, but I want to hear what you have to say that that at least is is important right.

00:50:50.610 --> 00:51:04.080 Stephen Petro: You talk about rights conflicting guess rates will always conflict but there's a way to not if not resolve the issue to collaboratively figure out.

00:51:05.730 --> 00:51:07.410 Stephen Petro: How to straddle those.

00:51:07.860 --> 00:51:09.450 Stephen Petro: Yes, those values and rights.

00:51:10.350 --> 00:51:19.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And you know, Stephen I think all good point I think you're right that, like first right to the floor, so the minimum perhaps is like what the law says your employer has to do.

00:51:19.890 --> 00:51:29.190 Eric Sarver, Esq.: there's like vaccine mandates, which is still being you know hotly debated, as you pointed out hotly debated in the courts and still ruled on today, and there are all kinds of injunctions and crazy stuff that I won't.

00:51:29.490 --> 00:51:31.260 Stephen Petro: get into the last year, but but.

00:51:31.560 --> 00:51:34.500 Eric Sarver, Esq.: to your point like you know I think it's like you're right that that the.

00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:45.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The decision maker, and by bringing the team together bringing people to talk about policies to you know voice their concerns and voice their you know their their pleasure, the positive disappointed with it.

00:51:45.810 --> 00:51:54.000 Eric Sarver, Esq.: it's you know I think I think you can't You know, as you mentioned, you can't sort of please everyone, and all everyone's rights being satisfied.

00:51:54.210 --> 00:51:54.600 Stephen Petro: So sorry.

00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:59.070 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Without I think it's like if if someone's rights are not being let's say.

00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:11.370 Eric Sarver, Esq.: This he writes a conflicting and let's say the right of those who want master right to feel safe is superseding the right of those like want like right, I have a free face without the lat last is getting funds up you know.

00:52:11.640 --> 00:52:12.150 Stephen Petro: Yes.

00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:24.570 Eric Sarver, Esq.: If you have to indicate, but if they have them here, why one party's rights say quote unquote one out it actually might soften the blow make them less upset less angry so like.

00:52:24.570 --> 00:52:37.140 Stephen Petro: Great alright well we'll even endorse theory Okay, so we can take an example, even endorse theory, he says, you know, of course, you have you, you should save somebody let's say if somebody's drowning you should save somebody.

00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:48.540 Stephen Petro: But if it's going to be of equal or greater harm to you, potentially, to save that person you're not obliged right listen let's say you're gonna drown or you're gonna.

00:52:49.650 --> 00:52:50.490 Stephen Petro: You might be.

00:52:51.540 --> 00:52:55.620 Stephen Petro: You know, get a spinal cord injury or something like that, for the rest of your life.

00:52:56.730 --> 00:53:03.210 Stephen Petro: You know those would be grounds, not to save the person or attempt to save the person permissible Lee.

00:53:04.050 --> 00:53:12.720 Stephen Petro: So, for instance, in this case yeah I mean you can make that case ethically right ethically but again here here's The thing that.

00:53:13.620 --> 00:53:29.400 Stephen Petro: I like to connect from the theoretical to the practical right practically speaking it almost no don't listen to me the wrong way it almost doesn't matter what is logically deduced to be ethical.

00:53:29.490 --> 00:53:30.270 Stephen Petro: make sense.

00:53:30.690 --> 00:53:39.660 Stephen Petro: It matters how people feel about that because, again at the end of the day, what's going to drive the behavior is not that you know they did do some syllogism.

00:53:40.170 --> 00:53:46.590 Stephen Petro: A, then there will be, and then see Okay, I get it don't worry Now I know I agree, no.

00:53:48.360 --> 00:54:01.020 Stephen Petro: yeah yes exactly so so you know those things those soft parts, really, really matter when it comes to understanding, you know how to translate from theory to practice.

00:54:01.590 --> 00:54:09.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Absolutely Stephen that was, I think, really just excellent point there you know it's a great point to segue to the next part which is the wrap up.

00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:23.370 Eric Sarver, Esq.: My least favorite part of the mean the show is ending but we've got about three minutes left i'll turn the floor over to you for about two minutes to share with us, how can we reach you any emotions might have you know your website and the floor is yours for two minutes.

00:54:23.730 --> 00:54:35.850 Stephen Petro: Yes, yeah so guys feel free to Well, this is my book, so if you want to check out my book and you're academically inclined, and you really you're really analytical go ahead, go for it it's a great great read.

00:54:37.080 --> 00:54:47.820 Stephen Petro: If you want to get in touch with me directly, either book an appointment for lifestyle consultation or you know anything else, just to.

00:54:48.270 --> 00:55:04.230 Stephen Petro: Read watch some of my content, I have a lot of great content that I put out myself as well, in terms of educational videos feel free to connect with me at Stephen petro for one that's at St E pH E n.

00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.690 Stephen Petro: that's my handle on Facebook and instagram.

00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:12.480 Stephen Petro: Know feel free to reach out to me directly.

00:55:13.650 --> 00:55:23.490 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Excellent Stephen Thank you so much really like a pleasure, having you here tonight with us to talk about value theory and how it applies to employers so again, I want to thank you for being on the show.

00:55:24.600 --> 00:55:32.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And also want to let our listeners know that every week I have engaging interesting guests exhibit a Stephen Petros you can hear and see me talking about.

00:55:33.270 --> 00:55:46.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: That you're welcome to that business owners face in their in their life in their professional lives as they plan things there for their company for their employees so tune in Tuesday nights at 5pm.

00:55:47.580 --> 00:55:53.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Here on talk Eastern standard time that is here in talker to nyc we've got some great shows coming up on the station we've got.

00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:02.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: gateway to the smokies with Joseph McElroy coming up next after this so i'll just let everyone know once again.

00:56:03.150 --> 00:56:19.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: it's employment law today on talk radio nyc and Stephen petro his info which he gave you can reach out to him for your retail health and wellness needs so Stephen again a pleasure to have you on the show pets, but to you and the holidays and.

00:56:20.610 --> 00:56:21.330 Eric Sarver, Esq.: we're showing anything.

00:56:21.750 --> 00:56:23.070 Stephen Petro: Thanks so much you too.

00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:25.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: All right, thank you.

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