Frank About Health

Thursday, November 4, 2021
Facebook Live Video from 2021/11/04 - Frank About Patient-Centered Caregiving with Dr. Phyllis Quinlan et al

Facebook Live Video from 2021/11/04 - Frank About Patient-Centered Caregiving with Dr. Phyllis Quinlan et al


2021/11/04 - Frank About Patient-Centered Caregiving with Dr. Phyllis Quinlan et al

[NEW EPISODE] Frank About Patient-Centered Caregiving with Dr. Phyllis Quinlan et al

This 2 hour episode is dedicated to summarizing the theme of patient-centered caregiving which has become the theme of the last series of episodes beginning with Reatha Grey and culminating with Dr. Georgeann Dau.

One particular guest, Dr. Phyllis Quinlan, has become an advocate for the show and will co-host during the 2 hour period as she asks for follow up from Reatha Grey who spoke about Cardiac care and Senior Healthcare.

Additionally we will feature Dr. Jan Bonhoeffer who told us to Dare To Care. Dr. Phyllis and Dr. Jan are going to integrate their respective knowledge of "Sharing the care" There might be appearances throughout the time period from other previous guests to highlight some of the main issues discussed during the last 12 weeks of the show.

Tune in for this healthy conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Frank starts his two hour special by explaining how every twelve episodes he likes to dedicate an episode to recap and summaries the findings and conversations. Frank and Dr. Phyllis Quinlan has decided to focus the show on patient centered care giving. He introduces all five quests that will talk about their findings and what they have learned from their different opportunities working in the healthcare field. Joining Frank on this special episode is Phyllis Quinlan, Sheila Warnock, Reatha Grey, Lee Tomlinson, and Jan Bonhoeffer. Reatha shares a personal update on how she has become an advocate for an individual she knows and their connection to the healthcare system and how she has seen the healthcare system decline. Phyllis brings up how veterans are treated and how they need support systems that will help aid them rather than hurt them or leave them in need. She continues to connect to Reatha by offering advice as she has seen in her past work how the services are declining to where they almost are non-existent anymore. Reatha brings up that the work offered is just not enough to truly aid and help the individuals she knows in need and that the healthcare system has not been engaged enough to truly help.

Segment 2

Phyllis brings the conversation back to raising awareness to family caregivers. She talks about the different forms a caregiver can take and how these different levels of care are all important. Phyllis continues to talk about long term care and how intake can be crucial for a patients growth and healing. She shares advice that is applicable to Reathas situation directly, the options she gives are something Reatha shares she has gone through with this individual. Both Phyllis and Reatha agree that this is shocking to hear about the healthcare system. Reatha emphasizes to the viewers to prepare to be old, she shares that if there is no planning that it can be a mess. Phyllis encourages individuals to gather legal forms and begin to take the steps to make sure you can be prepared if anything would happen. Lee Tomlinson is welcomed back to the podcast by Frank as Reatha and Phyllis conclude their conversation. Lee shares his story for those individuals who do not know him, and his experience with the healthcare system from a cancer survivor's point of view.

Segment 3

Frank re-introduces Lee and how compassion has made a large difference in his treatment and road to recovery. Frank brings up how Lee and Dr. Jan Bonhoeffer has complementary issues that they have faced and brought awareness to. Lee shares the passion that fills him to continue to remind those that work in the healthcare field to show compassion because that alone can save individuals lives and change how their treatment feels. Dr. Jan admits that he can only put emphasis on Lee's points and even pleads guilty to failing to meet and truly connect to individuals. He shares his different achievements, but acknowledges that he was missing the spark that got him into this field work. He says that he at once was objectifying the patients and focusing on working hard and improving knowledge. Dr. Jan continues to talk about how he wanted to change this and what he is doing to alter how doctors and patients interact and relate to one another. Lee replies that for health professionals it is necessary to provide compassion. Lee thanks Dr. Jan for pushing for these communication skills to better the oncoming generation of medical professionals. Phyllis dives into conversation in asking if Dr. Jan remembers being taught compassion in the medical field, he comes back with a response where he was taught to focus on knowledge and elevate in a scholarly mindset.

Segment 4

Phyllis brings up the perspective from a nurse and what their mindset is in regards to their work. Lee brings up the perspective of profit vs. patients. He talks about how medical workers are people pleasers that work so hard to help individuals, but combine it with the corporate side that does not care about the individuals but only the profit. He connects that between this contradiction it burns the medical workers out. Lee explains that if you want to be the best healer in that profession it only takes a second to learn compassion and share it in a simple interaction. Reatha shares that she has been in the hospital recently and was treated poorly rating the experience from a C to an F. She explains that she felt anxious, she only spoke to one doctor who truly let her know what was going on. She continues that she had felt the whole day that the workers did not want to be there, only that they had to. But the doctor that sat and spoke with her made her feel a connection where she could not tell if he was in a rush or not but she felt better from that one action. Lee explains that it is all that it takes is the one connection and the one simple gesture that will go a long way for the patient to feel better. Dr. Jan brings up his belief in focusing on more than just the work towards relief. He brings up a key problem known as disease care. He explains that this is limiting the person to this disease and the suffering that they are feeling from the disease. Lee explains that it is less what you do and how you do it but it is all the more about the attitude you bring towards the patient and how they have responded. Dr. Jan brings up authenticity and how that can be a key component in patient care and connection.

Segment 5 

Frank takes some time to take some questions from Facebook, the question picked is about burn out that was touched on earlier in the episode. Dr. Jan takes on the question and talks about how individuals going into the healthcare work space mostly feel as if they are starting with a half cup rather than a full one therefore burn out is almost inevitable. Dr. Jan sees that the main problem can be related to addicts, where they will deny having a problem, a healthcare professional will deny feeling burnout. Dr. Jan then goes into why burn out happens to health care professionals. Lee brings up how compassionate care and competent care are necessary, but when these medical professionals are burnt out they are unable to give compassionate care. Reatha talks about when she remembers when they taught bedside manner to medical professionals, and Lee adds on that no matter what they have been taught to hold profit over the passion which equals the burn out where compassion gets canceled out. Phyllis introduces Sheila Warnock and what she truly does to help patients and their families feel safe in their community. Sheila talks about her role in the healthcare system and her personal experiences that help fuel her passion for her work. 

Segment 6

Sheila continues to share a personal experience that helped her create a system for her Share The Care program. Through her system it creates a rotation of work where she has found that it has helped burn out as the work is not always put all on one individual. Sheila explains that others were attracted to how her and Share The Care tactic has helped individuals avoid burnout and continue to work together to support others. She talks about how education excites her and how she did not plan on creating this program but believes that individuals get put where they are needed. Sheila explains that no one expects to be a caregiver so no one prepares or is taught how to be one, she continues to depict that because of this a lot of fear is felt by those individuals. 

Segment 7

Frank talks about how he has dealt with Covid and the pandemic as well as his own personal experiences with the healthcare system. Frank takes time to answer another question from the listeners that leads into Phyllis talking about the movement in hospitals to integrate more empathy based criteria. She talks about nurses and how their voices are beginning to be heard as they work a lot more one on one with patients and use empathy and compassion with patients. Phyllis brings up authenticity and how important it is in working in the healthcare field not only as a doctor but for nurses and all other positions in the hospital. Dr. Jan brings up that his online courses are complementary to this theory as caring is the basis of empathy and to build off this is important as a healthcare worker. Dr. Jan promotes the ideas to be seen as antennas that emit these views rather than be categorized as problem solvers.

Segment 8 

Lee brings up that no matter if you are in the healthcare system or not the world needs more compassion in general. He promotes sharing more lives and care for others no matter what job or background. He shares his website that encourages people to sign up to commit kind acts each day that will help mentally and physically, when completed individuals receive his free book after the seven kind acts are completed. Lee puts emphasis on the power of compassion and how demonstrating it can save others and save yourself. Reatha shares that through this pandemic she has experienced the want for compassion and hugs, which she has made clear that she had not felt the push before. Dr. Jan talks about how his training will be moving online and will be promoted next year that will include six modules that help individuals reach a different level of understanding not only about themselves but what is around them. Dr. Jan brings the importance of integrity to the surface of the conversation where acknowledging simple intuitions in the human way will help healthcare individuals elevate their care and empathy to another level. Phyllis brings up how Reatha put emphasis on staying connected to their tribes, Phyllis talks about how connection is so important and by connection collaboration can happen and different mindsets can create a new picture that will help many.


00:00:39.270 --> 00:00:44.070 Frank R. Harrison: hey everybody and welcome to a very special two hour episode of frank about health.

00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:51.930 Frank R. Harrison: I consider this the time which it's almost like a season finale every 12 block of episodes I decided on my 12 show.

00:00:52.410 --> 00:01:02.580 Frank R. Harrison: To you know to uncover the big lessons learned that have been acquired during the last 12 episodes well the last 12 were very insightful in many ways.

00:01:03.090 --> 00:01:15.060 Frank R. Harrison: And with me today are five of my previous guests actually four of them with a surprise, which we will discuss during this special two hour season finale.

00:01:15.750 --> 00:01:33.750 Frank R. Harrison: theme of the show is going to be about caregiving and phyllis Quinlan and I decided upon preparing for this particular show to be focused on patient centered caregiving, especially since this is the month of national patient awareness month is that is that what you.

00:01:34.020 --> 00:01:34.770 Phyllis Quinlan: told me right.

00:01:35.730 --> 00:01:43.860 Frank R. Harrison: So is that being celebrated by an organization or is that just something that the health care professionals do every year.

00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:48.000 Phyllis Quinlan: I think it's one of those national recognition months awesome.

00:01:48.180 --> 00:01:57.270 Frank R. Harrison: awesome, so this is very timely, and I want to first announced the guests, that will be here on the show if any of you listeners and viewers out there.

00:01:57.930 --> 00:02:05.910 Frank R. Harrison: recall, we had read the Gray come on several times, first in June, when she talked about senior health care.

00:02:06.240 --> 00:02:15.030 Frank R. Harrison: And the lack of technological awareness that a lot of them have to deal with where they need patient advocates to continue to guide them, especially in their treatment modalities.

00:02:15.660 --> 00:02:26.070 Frank R. Harrison: She came back again to talk about a cardiac episode and sometime in July, which was also around the time, where I was actually talking with Hilton hotels.

00:02:26.340 --> 00:02:41.370 Frank R. Harrison: about their opportunities or their opportunities they wish to pursue in the healthcare space so we'll we're going to recap, a little bit when we talk with reba, but it was also very timely because a week after that lead Tomlinson came on and his.

00:02:41.370 --> 00:02:51.270 Frank R. Harrison: Alter Ego patiently where he talked about his book all about compassionate care, especially as he was recovering from about the throat cancer.

00:02:51.300 --> 00:03:03.210 Frank R. Harrison: And how empathy was very instrumental in his recovery few weeks after that I was introduced to Dr yon bonhoeffer from Switzerland, which he is still right now in Switzerland.

00:03:04.230 --> 00:03:11.250 Frank R. Harrison: And he basically was looking at how we should all dare to care as such as the title of his book sitting right behind him.

00:03:11.910 --> 00:03:24.240 Frank R. Harrison: available on Amazon COM, by the way, but the thing is, is that it became a cohesive through line that culminated on a very special episode with phyllis Quinlan herself.

00:03:24.600 --> 00:03:43.290 Frank R. Harrison: Who was talking about the work that she does with an organization called share the care and at the same time was talking about her experience working in trauma and as a professional nurse about the importance of not only compassion and empathy but the education that is sorely needed.

00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:57.360 Frank R. Harrison: To help people in a postcode world to get the education that they can look at empathy and compassion and other forms of thinking in their treatment towards patients and even themselves, their co workers.

00:03:58.140 --> 00:04:13.140 Frank R. Harrison: create a new ecosystem of sorts, so that it will also help in better recovery outcomes, as well as much more health, education and awareness so we want also to introduce later on in the hour.

00:04:14.010 --> 00:04:22.860 Frank R. Harrison: sheila Warnock who represents share the care and she is going to help us discuss what we had discussed over the last 12.

00:04:22.890 --> 00:04:32.490 Frank R. Harrison: weeks and throughout the next half hour so and what solutions, there are that we don't yet fully know but that are accessible.

00:04:32.850 --> 00:04:46.770 Frank R. Harrison: And how with each of our individual relationships with organizations in healthcare hospitality and sometimes educational institutions, we will be able to provide a new model for healthcare professionals patients.

00:04:47.670 --> 00:05:10.320 Frank R. Harrison: Colleagues, all in the area of understanding that healthcare is patient centered and it is also necessary that the patient owns it and works with a system of professionals together in the healing process so welcome to all of you for coming to this special episode of frank about help.

00:05:11.640 --> 00:05:12.240 Lee Tomlinson: Thank you.

00:05:12.270 --> 00:05:12.900 Phyllis Quinlan: Thank you, thank.

00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:24.990 Frank R. Harrison: You all each represent my most streamed episodes on Facebook live, you also represent my most pivotal topics that have enabled frank about health.

00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:42.000 Frank R. Harrison: To go on an expanded direction which will be covered later on in the show, but now I just have to start with Rita you've been my my my backer in this, since I was here at talk radio nyc five years ago with those big speakers on and you phoned in while you were driving.

00:05:44.190 --> 00:05:50.340 Frank R. Harrison: I just want to thank you again for coming on this show and for being an icon for me in so many ways, but.

00:05:50.610 --> 00:06:01.950 Frank R. Harrison: At the same time i'm interested to know, like from your last two appearances on the show have there been any updates or changes that you'd like to share before we go through the whole topic of compassionate care.

00:06:03.030 --> 00:06:03.720 Reatha Grey: well.

00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:07.590 Reatha Grey: From the space of patient care.

00:06:08.760 --> 00:06:26.430 Reatha Grey: It has become more of a nightmare, I talked a little bit before I believe about a friend that i'm King for who just doesn't happen to have anyone she's 91 years old and she's got dementia, she was in a hospital.

00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:39.690 Reatha Grey: And she stopped paying them and because she didn't want to be there, and she was paying them, and so, when she stopped paying them in the hospital discovered that I was helping her out.

00:06:40.740 --> 00:06:43.200 Reatha Grey: They dumped her basically back in her apartment.

00:06:44.880 --> 00:06:47.310 Reatha Grey: And I was just kind of.

00:06:48.510 --> 00:06:58.770 Reatha Grey: stunned, first of all, and then we had to put things in place, like her caregiver because I can't be a full time caregiver and.

00:06:59.940 --> 00:07:08.670 Reatha Grey: Getting her food and getting her medical and medicare all set up, and it was a nightmare, because she didn't know what any of it was.

00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:23.130 Reatha Grey: And I hadn't been working with her at all so just a matter of learning how to navigate the system was very difficult well it's gotten worse because her dimension has gotten worse.

00:07:25.020 --> 00:07:25.500 Reatha Grey: and

00:07:26.790 --> 00:07:43.410 Reatha Grey: i'm not a medical profession professional by any means i'm just helping out a friend and it's just a nightmare, because I put her on the phone with someone because she's the vacation and.

00:07:44.670 --> 00:07:53.520 Reatha Grey: She can answer any questions he's starting with what our phone number is and it's very difficult when people say well why don't you get a power of attorney.

00:07:54.120 --> 00:08:03.180 Reatha Grey: I don't want to be a fiduciary for someone who is not a family member that's that's not happening so it's it's been very difficult she.

00:08:03.690 --> 00:08:18.360 Reatha Grey: She only has somebody five days a week, four hours a day she's working out a way well i'm working out a way for her to hire someone on the weekends, because she's been staying from Friday to Monday by herself.

00:08:19.470 --> 00:08:29.640 Reatha Grey: The good news is she doesn't walk away she doesn't cook she doesn't she has not done anything so far, but you never know because.

00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:44.970 Reatha Grey: She did she's not thinking clearly so it's become more difficult for me to try to navigate this and matter of fact we're gonna i'm going to meet with someone today to interview about being there with her on the weekends.

00:08:45.600 --> 00:09:05.940 Reatha Grey: But from a caregivers standpoint, if you even if you're a relative I happen to be computer savvy so I can figure out some things because some stuff they only want you to do over the computer, but just navigating how to treat a dementia per person.

00:09:07.140 --> 00:09:16.710 Reatha Grey: During the pandemic is a nightmare it's a nightmare she's terrified of the of the virus wouldn't go to the doctor she hasn't seen a doctor in two years.

00:09:18.750 --> 00:09:26.880 Reatha Grey: And we don't want to put her in a wheelchair and forth take her have her screaming on the way out of the building, you know we'll go to Jeff.

00:09:28.020 --> 00:09:30.990 Reatha Grey: And it's it's very difficult.

00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:42.810 Reatha Grey: So that's how it has changed for me it's getting more and more difficult by the day, to the point where i'm trying to even bring in her medical team.

00:09:44.040 --> 00:09:56.040 Reatha Grey: So they have a baseline because when I when I when I said, I will be oprah I had no idea how badly she had dementia, because if you're not there with them every day, it seems normal.

00:09:56.820 --> 00:09:59.970 Reatha Grey: They tell me stories from 20 years ago, but you don't know they've been.

00:09:59.970 --> 00:10:03.810 Reatha Grey: telling it to everybody, they seen in the last two days.

00:10:04.230 --> 00:10:10.740 Reatha Grey: yeah but they get stuck on something and then you can't you can't get them unstuck.

00:10:11.970 --> 00:10:12.390 Reatha Grey: At.

00:10:12.750 --> 00:10:31.170 Reatha Grey: First it was her house shoes literally she must have gone through about 10 pairs of shoes, because she didn't like any of them and and now she had she's asked the House she so she doesn't want any more new house us, and she needs a new pair is it's it's it's just very difficult.

00:10:32.280 --> 00:10:39.930 Frank R. Harrison: So I know that when you were on the show you talked about how you were being able to advocate for her by providing the resources that she couldn't acquire herself.

00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:47.970 Frank R. Harrison: But, as you say it's become more difficult, so do you feel the need for more organizational support from the people she's currently working with.

00:10:48.300 --> 00:10:49.860 Reatha Grey: Well that's the good news, they.

00:10:49.890 --> 00:11:06.450 Reatha Grey: are reporting me that the bad news is what i'm really working towards is putting her back into some type of a 24 hour care facility which she does not want she was a bear i've known him for 40 years and.

00:11:07.890 --> 00:11:18.420 Reatha Grey: She does not want to be in an Institute and she can afford one of the good care centers my grandfather was in what it was like living in a hotel.

00:11:19.680 --> 00:11:22.740 Reatha Grey: When she was living in one that was like living in a nursing home.

00:11:25.170 --> 00:11:35.730 Reatha Grey: And she was very unhappy but that's kind of what i'm working towards, but I need professionals to be on board and in place so when that day comes.

00:11:37.350 --> 00:11:40.560 Reatha Grey: You know we're not dragging your screaming and hollering.

00:11:41.250 --> 00:11:42.270 Frank R. Harrison: Right good care.

00:11:42.450 --> 00:11:49.620 Reatha Grey: But this weekend, she because she was expecting someone to come, who did not show up she was panic.

00:11:50.310 --> 00:12:04.530 Reatha Grey: And she's been absolutely frantic ever since then and I talked to I told her they're clearly not going to come that's unfortunate you don't have to pay that but she was so oh I won't be alone, this weekend that she was traumatized.

00:12:06.060 --> 00:12:06.960 Phyllis Quinlan: So.

00:12:07.920 --> 00:12:12.240 Reatha Grey: it's it as a caregiver my hat's off.

00:12:13.920 --> 00:12:14.550 Reatha Grey: Anybody.

00:12:15.690 --> 00:12:23.730 Reatha Grey: Who is doing any type of care, giving for anybody it's, especially as they get older it's and i'm getting older.

00:12:24.870 --> 00:12:25.260 Phyllis Quinlan: Right.

00:12:26.550 --> 00:12:28.110 Phyllis Quinlan: What was your friend never married.

00:12:29.640 --> 00:12:30.930 Reatha Grey: She was married twice.

00:12:31.950 --> 00:12:34.830 Phyllis Quinlan: were either up her husband's on veterans.

00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:41.250 Reatha Grey: And um I don't think so okay.

00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:42.840 Phyllis Quinlan: Because that's an option.

00:12:42.870 --> 00:12:58.710 Phyllis Quinlan: A lot of people don't understand is that you can get Ahold of the veterans association and there are spouse, you know pieces that can go with that it's mostly for the veterans themselves, but there are definite inquiries that need to be made for the support of a veteran.

00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:03.960 Phyllis Quinlan: You know, and as far as home health is concerned, or you know.

00:13:05.280 --> 00:13:07.290 Phyllis Quinlan: Any kind of services that.

00:13:08.550 --> 00:13:11.820 Phyllis Quinlan: He or she may need but mostly from my from the.

00:13:11.880 --> 00:13:14.250 Phyllis Quinlan: home health attended perspective, they may get some.

00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:15.240 Phyllis Quinlan: extra hours.

00:13:16.350 --> 00:13:22.830 Reatha Grey: it's amazing to me that they would only give her four hours a day, finally.

00:13:23.460 --> 00:13:28.470 Reatha Grey: They literally never, never really interviewed her they never get out the home.

00:13:29.070 --> 00:13:37.020 Phyllis Quinlan: So I know that sounds limiting but since the economic downturn of 2007 the services don't exist any longer.

00:13:37.680 --> 00:13:43.770 Phyllis Quinlan: And I can tell you, as a former Director of nursing in a sub acute long term care facility.

00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:59.820 Phyllis Quinlan: What I could what I could work with the social workers and discharge plan is to offer my patients and their families, prior to 2007 was a lot more than I could do after 2007 so people would come up to me and say I don't think your people are working hard enough on behalf of.

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:01.230 Phyllis Quinlan: My family member or my.

00:14:01.230 --> 00:14:04.950 Phyllis Quinlan: friend, because my girlfriend's mom that this this and this.

00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:15.570 Phyllis Quinlan: And I said well that was before 2007 right and she goes and they no longer use those services, you know she passed right well those services, no longer exist so.

00:14:16.140 --> 00:14:25.950 Phyllis Quinlan: A couple of you know, four hours a day or four hours a day, maybe three times a week is probably she's at the Max for services for home care everything else will be out of pocket.

00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:47.220 Reatha Grey: which she is going to do, because you also have to spin down, so this will help her spin down to be able to keep her Meta cow or medicaid whichever one it is and pay for somebody for the weekend, but then you have the problem of who wants to work, two days a week for four hours each day.

00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:48.720 Frank R. Harrison: just have to say.

00:14:49.230 --> 00:14:50.730 Frank R. Harrison: We are about to take a break i'm.

00:14:50.730 --> 00:14:52.770 Frank R. Harrison: So sorry, this is a very engaging conversation.

00:14:52.980 --> 00:15:04.470 Frank R. Harrison: will follow up and then we're going to bring back patiently, ladies and gentlemen, stay tuned right here on talk radio in yc and Facebook live as we are being frank about patient centered care giving data.

00:17:16.320 --> 00:17:23.730 Frank R. Harrison: hey everybody and welcome back to this episode of frank about health we have been frank about patient centered care giving on the special compilation.

00:17:24.090 --> 00:17:33.630 Frank R. Harrison: and development opportunity for all of the caregivers care providers and caretakers out there Rita and phyllis were discussing about a particular patient.

00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:43.260 Frank R. Harrison: that she has been at that Rita has been advocating for for the least the last six months, and I know phyllis you were addressing some other solutions that I interrupted i'm sorry that.

00:17:43.650 --> 00:17:53.040 Phyllis Quinlan: You know I think this might be a good time frame to talk about you know just try to raise awareness, for family caregivers or good friends like God bless read the here this one will be lost.

00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:55.860 Phyllis Quinlan: You know what the different levels.

00:17:57.510 --> 00:18:01.050 Phyllis Quinlan: So you have an acute care facility, otherwise known as a hospital.

00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:09.420 Phyllis Quinlan: Okay, and when they do a discharge, they must discharge to a safe place there has to be a plan of care.

00:18:09.690 --> 00:18:17.370 Phyllis Quinlan: So that there is no dumping as such there has to be a discharge plan, there has to be follow up and it's called the continuum of care.

00:18:17.730 --> 00:18:33.240 Phyllis Quinlan: So that the continuum of care is is maintained so you will have discharge planners, social workers talking about what say they may involve a family member, if one is available, they may involve visiting nursing service and home health attendant services.

00:18:34.530 --> 00:18:43.590 Phyllis Quinlan: A lot of times you can be discharged depending on your diagnosis, in your age to a sub acute care facility so that's the next level down sub acute care.

00:18:44.430 --> 00:18:55.320 Phyllis Quinlan: is essentially where people go for acute rehabilitation so more brief more rehabilitation, that we can do in the hospital you get your insurance, if you are.

00:18:56.190 --> 00:19:06.090 Phyllis Quinlan: Receiving medicare you can get about 100 days paid insurance or medicare will pick that up 20 days 100% 80 days at the 80 days at.

00:19:07.110 --> 00:19:07.980 Phyllis Quinlan: 80%.

00:19:09.840 --> 00:19:23.790 Phyllis Quinlan: And that is so someone could recover from a debilitating bout of coping pneumonia a stroke hip replacements it's acute rehab with the whole idea of them transitioning out of Sub acute.

00:19:24.930 --> 00:19:33.540 Phyllis Quinlan: To the next three levels either long term care which is residential they're going to live in the nursing home now that's going to be their new address.

00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:53.040 Phyllis Quinlan: They could be discharged to Assisted Living Assisted Living is glorified high rise living with services, you are a resident, you are not a patient you're not a client you live there, and you pay extra you essentially get room and board and you pay extra for your.

00:19:54.330 --> 00:20:01.710 Phyllis Quinlan: Your doctor services for your medication services things of that nature, so the it is essentially.

00:20:02.250 --> 00:20:14.220 Phyllis Quinlan: High rise living plus some benefits that you pay for and then of course you can go back to your own home and in those cases, there can be some visiting nurses for a certain period of time.

00:20:14.580 --> 00:20:22.590 Phyllis Quinlan: And some assisted some assistance with your activities of daily living from home health attendance and as Reaper is experiencing.

00:20:22.860 --> 00:20:33.570 Phyllis Quinlan: This is very limited so four hours a day, maybe three times a week with the expectation that that's a safe place for that person to be and they just need some assistance.

00:20:33.870 --> 00:20:42.240 Phyllis Quinlan: home health attendance do a little bit of housework, a little bit of food preparation and maybe help the person with some activities of daily living and bathing.

00:20:43.320 --> 00:20:59.670 Phyllis Quinlan: But they do nothing else, they are not able to do anything else, legally, so if someone is demented and 24 hour chair and thankfully your friend doesn't wander on top of her dementia she's not making any moves to leave.

00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:06.930 Phyllis Quinlan: If you have that kind of situation where you're dementia is complicated by other things, such as in mobility.

00:21:08.610 --> 00:21:17.910 Phyllis Quinlan: No, no, cognitive cues to eat or drink perhaps they're incontinent or they wander which then of course they leave the home and wander around the.

00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:37.110 Phyllis Quinlan: neighborhood unsafely that's a time to contact or either get them to an acute care facility or an emergency department for their private md and have them admitted to the hospital where they can be evaluated and then discharged to a long term care facility for residential care.

00:21:37.380 --> 00:21:38.490 Phyllis Quinlan: And those place those.

00:21:38.580 --> 00:21:48.360 Phyllis Quinlan: Long term care facilities have programs in place specialized to treat dimension, I know a lot of people think that I would never put my mother in a nursing home.

00:21:48.990 --> 00:21:58.020 Phyllis Quinlan: But I can share with you that the programming, that is, in a nursing home is really very high level their socialization this religious events.

00:21:58.890 --> 00:22:13.710 Phyllis Quinlan: You know there's a lot of memory programs we keep the residents extremely engaged, it is their home and the staff is taught to have the mindset that you are working in the residence home that your place of work.

00:22:14.760 --> 00:22:21.270 Phyllis Quinlan: happens to be their home, and we are gifts in their home and we treat them accordingly, that is, the mindset and we train the staff.

00:22:22.620 --> 00:22:31.770 Reatha Grey: And that's basically the steps that she's gone through and the period of time when they discharged your home with six weeks.

00:22:32.310 --> 00:22:38.040 Phyllis Quinlan: So aretha i'm just not sure what level, she was at it sounds like she was in an Assisted Living facility.

00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.910 Reatha Grey: No, she was in the 70s sub acute rehab Center.

00:22:42.330 --> 00:22:53.490 Phyllis Quinlan: So I guess i'm a little confused because I when you said they dumped her back home that's inconsistent with what how I know the practices to go.

00:22:53.610 --> 00:22:54.930 Phyllis Quinlan: i'm not i'm not.

00:22:55.230 --> 00:22:55.860 Phyllis Quinlan: denying that.

00:22:57.630 --> 00:22:58.740 Reatha Grey: lovely stuff.

00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:09.960 Reatha Grey: We talked on Thursday I had agreed to help transition her back home because they will I didn't realize she had stopped paying them and that's why they were doing it and.

00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:11.700 Reatha Grey: I had agreed to that on a.

00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:12.540 Thursday

00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:17.820 Reatha Grey: But she didn't have a phone turned on in her apartment she still had her apartment.

00:23:18.030 --> 00:23:19.950 Reatha Grey: But the home wasn't turned on.

00:23:20.520 --> 00:23:23.280 Reatha Grey: yeah there was no food in the House.

00:23:23.370 --> 00:23:25.170 Reatha Grey: So it appeared so that.

00:23:25.230 --> 00:23:34.320 Reatha Grey: right they told me, it would be about a month before they'd be able to set everything up on Monday, she called me from my home yeah.

00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:34.980 So.

00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:45.870 Phyllis Quinlan: yeah I think there's more here than you and I both know quite honestly, because there are there are some legal hoops to jump through to discharge someone and.

00:23:45.990 --> 00:23:46.590 Phyllis Quinlan: They say.

00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:48.960 Phyllis Quinlan: Okay.

00:23:51.030 --> 00:24:07.710 Reatha Grey: It was really frightening enough, and one of the things i've learned from this is, I think that this is how older people get end up on the street, because the she could not have possibly have navigated this on her own and they had to know that.

00:24:09.870 --> 00:24:24.510 Reatha Grey: But but, but my overall message to everyone is it's prepare yes air to be old I personally didn't think I was going to live as 60 i'm way past that exploration.

00:24:25.800 --> 00:24:27.150 Reatha Grey: I did not plan.

00:24:29.190 --> 00:24:32.970 Reatha Grey: i'm learning a lot but i'm telling 20 year olds.

00:24:33.270 --> 00:24:34.890 Reatha Grey: yellow and to be old.

00:24:35.970 --> 00:24:37.920 Reatha Grey: yeah you know it is a mess.

00:24:39.090 --> 00:24:47.910 Phyllis Quinlan: So to that end, maybe we should introduce there's three things that you need to put in place paper wise documentation wise as you're getting older.

00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:58.320 Phyllis Quinlan: You need to have somebody who's designated as your hip or representative those people that your your care team can inform legally about your personal health information.

00:24:58.710 --> 00:25:06.660 Phyllis Quinlan: You need to have your health care proxies in place people who will act on your behalf, when you no longer can speak for yourself.

00:25:07.350 --> 00:25:22.500 Phyllis Quinlan: All right, and you really should have a power of attorney and depending on the State you live it's a power of attorney and a durable power of attorney so a power of attorney can act on some legal matters, and your durable power of attorney can take care of your finances.

00:25:24.870 --> 00:25:27.660 Phyllis Quinlan: amazing a will, if you haven't done a will.

00:25:28.080 --> 00:25:29.580 Phyllis Quinlan: Please do a will.

00:25:29.850 --> 00:25:32.370 Frank R. Harrison: As well as a trust non reversible trust.

00:25:32.610 --> 00:25:36.810 Phyllis Quinlan: You know, depending on what your assets are and who your beneficiaries are.

00:25:36.840 --> 00:25:38.520 Phyllis Quinlan: But please have a will in place.

00:25:38.760 --> 00:25:47.820 Frank R. Harrison: Great Okay, and it looks as though that we still have a couple minutes left in this section, but yes, I think it is a perfect segue where.

00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:58.380 Frank R. Harrison: After we come from our next commercial break I want lead Tom and sin and Dr young to really go at it, because they were back to back episodes on frank about health.

00:25:58.830 --> 00:26:11.790 Frank R. Harrison: Where Lee was telling me as patiently that compassionate care is necessary and Dr young was daring me to care so that both of them are going to be able to really have both.

00:26:12.360 --> 00:26:26.040 Frank R. Harrison: contrasting and and coordinated views on the whole issue of empathy and then, of course, Dr young when you get introduced you'll be able to you know recapture the story, you had watching that that child transitioning.

00:26:26.670 --> 00:26:39.150 Frank R. Harrison: And that was the impetus for the curriculum that you were developing So, ladies and gentlemen, I think we still have some time so Lee I just want to welcome you back to frank about health.

00:26:39.600 --> 00:26:51.270 Frank R. Harrison: At least get you to talk about what what what outcomes that you've generated, since you were last on the show and then we'll return from our commercial break we'll have the dialogue between the two of you.

00:26:52.530 --> 00:26:53.490 Lee Tomlinson: um well.

00:26:54.570 --> 00:27:03.570 Lee Tomlinson: First of all, I am now officially old as well and I couldn't be happier about that, given my medical history every day above ground is very good.

00:27:05.670 --> 00:27:14.550 Lee Tomlinson: I was taking notes about a couple of the things that I haven't got in place yet so i'll be working on that, after the podcast.

00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:25.110 Lee Tomlinson: Just to reiterate, I know don't have a lot of time i'm at the very end of my grueling Stage Three stage for throat cancer battle.

00:27:25.530 --> 00:27:43.380 Lee Tomlinson: I was hospitalized with a life threatening unidentifiable septic infection and decided my port and despite a lifetime of incredibly competent and hugely compassionate interactions with healthcare due to my addiction to adrenaline.

00:27:44.490 --> 00:27:54.450 Lee Tomlinson: This was the worst, by far, I mean she took all of the fracture is and the amputations i've had skin grafts in the, but if you took all of the pain from all of that.

00:27:55.560 --> 00:28:09.000 Lee Tomlinson: My treatment my three months of chemo followed by 35 straight days of radiation to my throat absolutely was all of that pain times 1000 and so landing in that hospital dying from cancer.

00:28:09.870 --> 00:28:19.020 Lee Tomlinson: My life in my professional life in shambles my romantic life my marriage was in a shambles because I was in such pain I.

00:28:19.860 --> 00:28:30.900 Lee Tomlinson: am ashamed to say I took it all out on my poor loving wife, so I didn't know if I even wanted to survive, but if I ever could use a little bit of kindness and compassion.

00:28:31.410 --> 00:28:41.670 Lee Tomlinson: Like all those other medical interventions and were equally compassionate and competent, it was there and I got zero literally made me give up.

00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:57.000 Frank R. Harrison: Well we're gonna be able to go more into that in the next two minutes so, ladies and gentlemen, please stay tuned as we were being frank about patient centered caregiving on this special episode of frank about health on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook live, so please stay tuned.

00:30:59.430 --> 00:31:08.250 Frank R. Harrison: hey everybody welcome back to this episode of frank about health patiently or Lee Thompson was just explaining about how he has overcome a lot.

00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:13.380 Frank R. Harrison: of medical traumas and yet realizing the need for compassion would have been.

00:31:13.710 --> 00:31:23.580 Frank R. Harrison: helping him on a faster basis than it already has and he's grateful to be old, because now he has the additional knowledge that is going to help him sustain his quality of life, going forward.

00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:31.980 Frank R. Harrison: But also, Dr young bonhoeffer I want to introduce you to start a dialogue between you and patiently, because I think both of you have.

00:31:31.980 --> 00:31:36.930 Frank R. Harrison: complimentary issues that you both discussed in your respective books and so.

00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:51.630 Frank R. Harrison: i'm sorry about cutting you off at that last minutes lead, but you were talking about other aspects of what you learned and what you were grateful for, and I wanted you to continue telling us what else you you've learned since will be less Where are you, since you were last on the show.

00:31:55.830 --> 00:31:56.340 Frank R. Harrison: unmute.

00:31:57.330 --> 00:31:57.540 You.

00:32:11.610 --> 00:32:15.900 Lee Tomlinson: All right, ah, I love technology hate technology could be bad.

00:32:17.550 --> 00:32:37.320 Lee Tomlinson: thoughts, so at the very end of my cancer treatment with an unidentifiable step to contextualize hospitalized I got treatment that was fabulous I guess he's still alive, but care that was as mean inhumane insensitive unkind when I needed that the most and what I realized is that.

00:32:39.300 --> 00:32:57.660 Lee Tomlinson: When you're in that position when your life is when you're in a hospital or any other sort of medical situation you're literally handing your life over to people and when they don't think you're worth simple human kindness courtesy politeness.

00:32:59.130 --> 00:33:08.220 Lee Tomlinson: I believed it and I believe that the world would be a better place without me and I decided that I put on enough fentanyl patches that I had a little bit of bounce i'm going to sleep.

00:33:08.910 --> 00:33:27.960 Lee Tomlinson: and read my family with the benefits of a key man life insurance policy that will let them live like kings and Queens what prevented me from doing that was a very short extraordinarily loving interaction with a doctor friend who came to me.

00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:37.920 Lee Tomlinson: I told him the story as best I could because it's excruciating speak and he apologized for what he said, a health care profession.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:51.420 Lee Tomlinson: That had not given me the compassion that was necessary for the best possible outcome, and he apologized to that and he said, you know it's getting much, much worse to me.

00:33:52.320 --> 00:34:06.660 Lee Tomlinson: And he said, but how about rather than to in yourself in how about you fight and if you're lucky enough to live how about you spend the rest of your life trying to remind healthcare professionals of the absolute necessity.

00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:19.950 Lee Tomlinson: of being compassionate to their patients and themselves so that they can be the best healer they possibly can be, and that's what i've done with the compassion yells movement so.

00:34:20.970 --> 00:34:37.380 Lee Tomlinson: i've done a number of keynotes recently I did 1000 doctors who have the highest suicide rate of burnout and suicide rate of any profession in American today, which was a glorious experience and also.

00:34:38.430 --> 00:34:57.720 Lee Tomlinson: A couple of more for a number of nurse nurse navigator organizations so it's it's been a busy time and I could not be happier to try to remind them of the absolute necessity and providing the healing power of compassion, in addition to their competency.

00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:12.660 Frank R. Harrison: hmm amazing and so Dr young, would you say that when you were dealing with your study, especially when you're reading your book that you were discovering the same treatment with the doctors that that Lee had experienced.

00:35:14.430 --> 00:35:17.190 Jan Bonhoeffer: Most unfortunately Lee I can only.

00:35:18.510 --> 00:35:21.810 Jan Bonhoeffer: support and underline and highlight what you were just saying.

00:35:22.890 --> 00:35:24.900 Jan Bonhoeffer: This is not a unique experience.

00:35:24.990 --> 00:35:27.660 Jan Bonhoeffer: And when you are sharing your experience.

00:35:28.740 --> 00:35:35.580 Jan Bonhoeffer: The urge to apologize is very strong and means i'm happy that's that very.

00:35:37.170 --> 00:35:40.170 Jan Bonhoeffer: close to what you have experienced clay actually did.

00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:42.480 Jan Bonhoeffer: I also feel.

00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.190 Jan Bonhoeffer: The wish to apologize, because I also plead guilty.

00:35:48.270 --> 00:35:51.930 Jan Bonhoeffer: I have been practicing for 20 years.

00:35:52.020 --> 00:35:52.470 As a dog.

00:35:53.850 --> 00:35:56.670 Jan Bonhoeffer: And only really using the top three inches of my body.

00:35:58.050 --> 00:36:00.660 Jan Bonhoeffer: And I operated with confidence.

00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:08.010 Jan Bonhoeffer: In the current state of ignorance, that we call healthcare hmm with my brain leading the way.

00:36:09.420 --> 00:36:09.750 Lee Tomlinson: Right.

00:36:09.870 --> 00:36:21.960 Jan Bonhoeffer: And, and I learned it all and I tried hard you know suck up all the medical knowledge and and you know, be the youngest paramedic in the country and then become an emergency physician and then work as a.

00:36:22.410 --> 00:36:32.340 Jan Bonhoeffer: As a pediatrician as a vaccine safety specialist as a professor of medicine and I felt all this is great i'm really getting deeper and deeper and i'm getting better and better, while not realizing.

00:36:33.630 --> 00:36:46.860 Jan Bonhoeffer: That i'm actually missing i'm actually disregarding the initial spark that got me into the profession and i'm missing the patient, because I have learned to objectify the patient.

00:36:47.250 --> 00:37:06.690 Jan Bonhoeffer: Which totally makes sense, with my PhD hat on but it completely doesn't make sense, with the caregivers hat on and so since then I have come to understand that my effectiveness as a real facilitator of health rest only in a tiny part on what I have learned in medical school.

00:37:07.740 --> 00:37:14.370 Jan Bonhoeffer: And I have been teaching the students for decades right and trying to you know work harder study more improve your knowledge, you know.

00:37:14.730 --> 00:37:23.700 Jan Bonhoeffer: work longer hours and I felt great about it Oh, my goodness, how long was I, so this is all the back of what you know that's kind of the.

00:37:24.120 --> 00:37:32.640 Jan Bonhoeffer: Part of the backstory of what got me to write Dr to care and we've got us in heart based medicine to create courses and.

00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:46.440 Jan Bonhoeffer: To really see how can we, particularly for the next generation of healthcare professionals but also for those who are realizing now like myself going oh my God actually I have lost myself out of the equation, and I have actually ignored.

00:37:46.770 --> 00:37:47.940 Phyllis Quinlan: My healing power.

00:37:48.120 --> 00:37:58.200 Jan Bonhoeffer: As a healer as a human being and i'm undermining the healing capacity as a patient So yes, we couldn't agree more with what you're saying yeah.

00:37:58.770 --> 00:37:59.910 Lee Tomlinson: Well yeah and it's it's.

00:37:59.910 --> 00:38:00.900 Lee Tomlinson: it's it's.

00:38:02.190 --> 00:38:21.060 Lee Tomlinson: it's an extraordinary thing to have a physician admit to those shortcomings and do the work necessary to recognize the value scientifically proven, this is not about being nice to be nice, you know there's a book called compassion omics and.

00:38:21.060 --> 00:38:23.790 Lee Tomlinson: Yours speaks to the evidence.

00:38:24.270 --> 00:38:41.040 Lee Tomlinson: That says that providing compassion for patients is not an option is a necessity, and if what they want, which you all do because you took the Hippocratic oath first do no harm.

00:38:42.210 --> 00:38:53.400 Lee Tomlinson: You must treat cure and comfort your patients all the time, you know that's our pocket, he said, your job is to treat sometimes cure often.

00:38:54.060 --> 00:39:13.980 Lee Tomlinson: And comfort always which speaks to a person's mental emotional and spiritual needs in addition to their physical needs so bravo for you, for recognizing that for changing that and doing what's necessary to train the next generation to know that.

00:39:14.730 --> 00:39:15.210 Lee Tomlinson: As.

00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:17.190 Lee Tomlinson: To help them develop the.

00:39:17.190 --> 00:39:23.190 Lee Tomlinson: communication skills to be able to do it bravo I salute you my friend.

00:39:25.590 --> 00:39:27.390 Phyllis Quinlan: As a fellow practitioner I just.

00:39:27.630 --> 00:39:40.560 Phyllis Quinlan: You know and and we I apologize, on behalf of the nursing population, because you should never experienced anything like that, but ducting on do you feel you were trained to be compassionate or you were trained to be confident.

00:39:41.730 --> 00:39:43.740 Jan Bonhoeffer: Though I was trained to be.

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:45.690 Jan Bonhoeffer: knowledgeable.

00:39:47.130 --> 00:40:00.630 Jan Bonhoeffer: I was trained to learn to discern I was trained in my analytic part of the mind right brain right so that's the part that's the muscle feel like that was trained and the other muscle, that is, about compassion.

00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:07.620 Jan Bonhoeffer: Is untrained y'all know they the parable of the the story about the two worlds right So if you.

00:40:07.620 --> 00:40:08.580 Phyllis Quinlan: pray right.

00:40:09.120 --> 00:40:11.640 Jan Bonhoeffer: depends on the one it's the one who wins is the one you.

00:40:11.640 --> 00:40:17.610 Jan Bonhoeffer: feed and the one that is fed in medical school and throw training is one that is based on.

00:40:18.600 --> 00:40:32.550 Jan Bonhoeffer: i'm not valuing my own needs, learning to disregard my own feelings my own needs, my own care so i've learned to explicitly not care for myself, and that is being here.

00:40:33.180 --> 00:40:39.420 Jan Bonhoeffer: that's that that's, that is what is called being hero, and that is what is being called so called altruistic.

00:40:40.230 --> 00:40:49.620 Jan Bonhoeffer: But it's a kind of care that is based on nothing, it is a care that is based on vacuum, how can I care for somebody if i'm empty isn't.

00:40:50.070 --> 00:41:00.120 Jan Bonhoeffer: A state of fullness of enough notice now look look at the canteen conversations you know this, but it's look look look at the canteen or the casual conversations between healthcare.

00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:11.040 Jan Bonhoeffer: Professionals how much of this is actually highly cynical how much of this is complaining about this that and the other kind of victimizing ourselves for the purpose of feeling.

00:41:11.490 --> 00:41:13.890 Jan Bonhoeffer: Great as a as a martyr right.

00:41:14.370 --> 00:41:17.610 Phyllis Quinlan: Right, but if you if you had the audacity at some point in your.

00:41:17.610 --> 00:41:32.940 Phyllis Quinlan: career to say you know I need to take a day off or I or I know you're giving me this assignment or this opportunity, but you know I know my plate is pretty full and I think i'm going to respectfully turn this opportunity down how has that affected your career.

00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:35.430 Jan Bonhoeffer: And would have.

00:41:36.570 --> 00:41:50.550 Jan Bonhoeffer: It would be a little less now I feel as the few like cleansers as the as a generation Z is coming up there's a different kind of awareness entering the marketplace.

00:41:51.450 --> 00:41:58.440 Jan Bonhoeffer: So situations like give you an example when when the medical let's say the medical director.

00:41:58.830 --> 00:42:10.170 Jan Bonhoeffer: would have asked me after a Ward round, when I was a student an intern and elective student, he said, like Oh, I really like you, you know you as a student I got your your seem to be a smart cookie you know what.

00:42:10.620 --> 00:42:13.980 Jan Bonhoeffer: I think i'll offer you to write your thesis with me.

00:42:14.040 --> 00:42:15.060 Jan Bonhoeffer: I would probably just.

00:42:15.090 --> 00:42:16.770 Jan Bonhoeffer: fainted on the spot right.

00:42:18.120 --> 00:42:28.080 Jan Bonhoeffer: And just being incredibly grateful for this amazing opportunity now a couple of months ago, the same situation actually occurred there was this huge world round and the medical director did exactly that.

00:42:28.470 --> 00:42:38.520 Jan Bonhoeffer: Now, what was the attitude of the of the student she turned to the medical director said well that's very kind of you so i'll make sure that you'll be part of my shortlist now.

00:42:39.390 --> 00:42:40.260 Phyllis Quinlan: Right right.

00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:43.740 Phyllis Quinlan: So, and I think it's a very different attitude.

00:42:43.950 --> 00:42:54.480 Phyllis Quinlan: yeah what we don't know going in Okay, because I I don't know why you decided to go into medicine i'm pretty clear about why I decided to go and stay in nursing.

00:42:55.230 --> 00:43:10.080 Phyllis Quinlan: But what we don't know going in assists really three buckets, there is the the clinical bucket you know I want to go and serve and help me a kind you know and be part of the Legion of the universe's healers, there is the academic bucket.

00:43:11.100 --> 00:43:12.630 Phyllis Quinlan: And then there is the.

00:43:13.830 --> 00:43:32.160 Phyllis Quinlan: Industry of healthcare and for do they contradict each other so as as a as a consultant who goes into healthcare organizations, I have actually been asked by the people who have hired me why do I need to hire you to teach my nurses, how to be compassionate.

00:43:33.810 --> 00:43:45.870 Phyllis Quinlan: And my My response to that, essentially, is where you here in the late 90s when managed care infiltrated the business of health care we changed our care model.

00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:55.260 Phyllis Quinlan: Yes, yes, I was part of that it was champion, I was a leader Okay, and what was the dominant word well the dominant word was efficiency.

00:43:55.740 --> 00:44:15.570 Phyllis Quinlan: More with Less downsizing right sizing business business business and the healthcare industry got taken over by financially focused folks and it became a business in the years 10 years or so, when managed care started and managed care kind of filtered away.

00:44:17.610 --> 00:44:18.900 Phyllis Quinlan: I never heard the word caring.

00:44:19.590 --> 00:44:32.340 Phyllis Quinlan: hmm I heard the word efficiency, I heard the word do more with less slicker and quicker, you know all these things that you might hear on Wall Street or in the back room of the finance, you know.

00:44:33.120 --> 00:44:47.520 Phyllis Quinlan: Finance office, so when I said to this person was you got what you paid for it didn't you because you asked people who have a heartfelt connection to human services to stop doing that.

00:44:48.030 --> 00:44:59.610 Phyllis Quinlan: And to actually become much more efficient and technical and financially minded in order to survive, you were telling them that, if you didn't do this the healthcare industry wouldn't survive.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:01.290 Phyllis Quinlan: We challenge nurse.

00:45:01.590 --> 00:45:02.460 Frank R. Harrison: i'm sorry phil is.

00:45:02.610 --> 00:45:15.870 Frank R. Harrison: We actually had to take a break, but three questions have come in, I see Lee has several and we have one from Facebook so we'll get a cover that and let's finish what you were saying when we come back on this episode of frank about health on talk radio nyc and Facebook lives they tune.

00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:16.350 Frank R. Harrison: Welcome back to this very special episode of frank about health.

00:47:16.740 --> 00:47:29.580 Frank R. Harrison: i'm sorry phyllis you were saying something particular before we go into answer questions that are coming in from Facebook and also he wants to comment on some of the things us well, what is it you were saying at that last minute that.

00:47:29.640 --> 00:47:41.280 Phyllis Quinlan: So if you understand the mentality of a nurse their their helpers they are compassionate they are peacekeepers, they want to please, they want to serve.

00:47:41.790 --> 00:47:53.190 Phyllis Quinlan: So if you're going to sit them down and say this, the salvation or you know of keeping the hospital open depends on you shifting gears from caring to being financially.

00:47:53.610 --> 00:48:03.030 Phyllis Quinlan: cognizant and putting your focus on slicker and quicker and my you know, mindful of all of the economic things that we're doing in healthcare they're going to do it.

00:48:04.350 --> 00:48:14.340 Phyllis Quinlan: But you can't ask, but what happens is when you they shipped to finance from caring they lose the connection with their compassionate nature.

00:48:15.450 --> 00:48:26.100 Phyllis Quinlan: it's now not safe to be in their compassionate nature, because you're asking them to do something else they they move up into their head and they become academic and as as Jeff said.

00:48:26.580 --> 00:48:32.910 Phyllis Quinlan: The the they're going to live in the top three inches of their head and they're going to become very robotic efficient.

00:48:33.240 --> 00:48:43.860 Phyllis Quinlan: going to get the care done you're going to get world class care clinical outcomes you're going to be fine but you're not going to have that heartfelt connection because that's no longer the culture that was promoted.

00:48:46.050 --> 00:48:47.100 Frank R. Harrison: that's what you're coming from.

00:48:47.790 --> 00:49:02.160 Lee Tomlinson: Well, the answer is there it's, no doubt, there is no doubt that healthcare has moved to a in some cases, not all to a profit versus patient's perspective.

00:49:02.910 --> 00:49:12.030 Lee Tomlinson: And the outcome of that when you take those doctors and nurses and others in health care, most of them as a personality type are people pleasers.

00:49:12.570 --> 00:49:21.240 Lee Tomlinson: And they tend to give and give and give and give until they can't give anymore until every person in the world is healed which is never going to happen.

00:49:21.660 --> 00:49:30.450 Lee Tomlinson: When you combine that with systems that don't look after their health and their people with the same compassion.

00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:38.520 Lee Tomlinson: They want their patients to have for all the reasons we know that's important or necessity you end up with a staff.

00:49:39.030 --> 00:49:47.670 Lee Tomlinson: Which burned out and one of the characteristics of burnout is emotional numbness because they're in such pain after nothing themselves.

00:49:48.360 --> 00:50:04.740 Lee Tomlinson: And when you're done, you are incapable of being that kind caring compassionate human being, you were when you got into healthcare so there's two areas that when I speak to nursing students medical students.

00:50:05.310 --> 00:50:18.630 Lee Tomlinson: Aside from presenting a scientific evidence of the immense you empower compassion, not just for the patient, but for the provider as well who gets the same benefits as the patient, which are immense.

00:50:20.250 --> 00:50:25.050 Lee Tomlinson: is to say, look you've got to be both you have to take care of you my.

00:50:26.520 --> 00:50:48.930 Lee Tomlinson: compassion heels from self care to health care, you have to put you first, you have to get healthy, you have to stay healthy, yes, and I know the answer is you do if what you want to do is be the best possible healer you can be for every patient in front of you and compassion takes a second.

00:50:50.070 --> 00:51:01.230 Lee Tomlinson: You just need to know that you need to know how you can do it quickly you can spend our if you have it fabulous after that happened, but in each human interaction.

00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:08.880 Lee Tomlinson: A touch a lot a tone tiny things can make immense difference and.

00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:18.750 Lee Tomlinson: Let that patient know there are seen heard and appreciated well that's the goal yeah.

00:51:19.170 --> 00:51:19.800 Phyllis Quinlan: Well, another one.

00:51:20.040 --> 00:51:21.510 Phyllis Quinlan: compassionate numbness would be.

00:51:21.510 --> 00:51:22.860 Phyllis Quinlan: burnout simple as that.

00:51:24.510 --> 00:51:32.730 Reatha Grey: I happen to be in the hospital this weekend for a couple of days, and I would rate, the staff at the hospital anywhere from a seat to an F.

00:51:33.690 --> 00:51:46.770 Reatha Grey: All of them I was anxious, the whole time it was it was a nightmare, I had one doctor, the last doctor came in, he introduced himself, he sat down on the edge of my bed he looked at me.

00:51:48.270 --> 00:51:49.500 Reatha Grey: And he spoke to me.

00:51:50.910 --> 00:51:52.140 Reatha Grey: everything was fine.

00:51:53.160 --> 00:51:53.790 Reatha Grey: I was scared.

00:51:54.570 --> 00:51:55.830 Reatha Grey: Yes, my dad.

00:51:55.890 --> 00:51:59.970 Reatha Grey: One at first when he sat down, I thought he sitting on my bed.

00:52:02.430 --> 00:52:05.790 Reatha Grey: I was so used to them being so distance so.

00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:09.270 Reatha Grey: You know i'm here because I have to you know.

00:52:09.630 --> 00:52:11.370 Reatha Grey: And he sat down and he.

00:52:11.490 --> 00:52:14.130 Reatha Grey: Whether he was in a hurry or not i'll never know.

00:52:14.190 --> 00:52:20.340 Reatha Grey: right because he sat there and made it into to me and it made the world of difference if I like that.

00:52:20.790 --> 00:52:21.360 Lee Tomlinson: Right assuming.

00:52:23.070 --> 00:52:23.790 Lee Tomlinson: I interrupted.

00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:24.420 The signal.

00:52:25.590 --> 00:52:42.870 Lee Tomlinson: When we're children we don't run to the er and tell them, we need stitches and ensure you give me some medicine, what I know we run to somebody who we trust and what do we want, we want to hug in a castle and the pain now is measured is.

00:52:42.930 --> 00:52:43.770 Significant.

00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:55.140 Lee Tomlinson: Because we know we're in this together that's what compassion is I see your pain, I get it, I do what ever I can do.

00:52:55.890 --> 00:53:09.450 Lee Tomlinson: to heal you mentally physically emotionally and spiritually and that's what that final bucket and that's what the doctor did to apologize to me for the care I didn't get which led me to consider suicide it's a five minute conversation.

00:53:10.020 --> 00:53:10.770 Lee Tomlinson: sat down.

00:53:10.830 --> 00:53:18.450 Lee Tomlinson: With me I spoke to me respectfully spoke right to me put his hand on my own five minute conversation saved my life.

00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:20.070 Frank R. Harrison: That.

00:53:20.670 --> 00:53:34.590 Phyllis Quinlan: I certainly have my opinions about how we can remedy this, what are your thoughts about how do we step away from me industry of health care and get back to connecting professional caregivers to their purpose and their mission.

00:53:36.660 --> 00:53:37.920 Jan Bonhoeffer: Did you ask me thank you.

00:53:38.370 --> 00:53:38.940 Phyllis Quinlan: Dr young.

00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:44.250 Lee Tomlinson: Yes, Dr young on fire away and i've got so much experience as well during that.

00:53:44.640 --> 00:53:45.840 Jan Bonhoeffer: We would take turns Lee.

00:53:48.060 --> 00:53:49.110 Lee Tomlinson: I jabra too much.

00:53:51.030 --> 00:53:59.730 Jan Bonhoeffer: um I think we need, we need to look a little bit deeper than curing the current state of dis ease, if you like, so.

00:54:00.240 --> 00:54:13.680 Jan Bonhoeffer: One of the key problems in healthcare is that it's actually a sick care it's a disease care right so we're focusing on disease, which means we're kind of limiting the people in front of us to something not even to their suffering.

00:54:13.980 --> 00:54:19.950 Jan Bonhoeffer: But to something that we call their suffering okay so it's as far away, is it could be so.

00:54:20.520 --> 00:54:30.780 Jan Bonhoeffer: Step one to me is to actually learn the transition from treating disease to promoting health just a huge step, and that includes.

00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:41.580 Jan Bonhoeffer: Our own attitude and how we show up, and I think both risa and Lee have highlighted this very beautifully is that is not so much about what you say and what you know.

00:54:42.150 --> 00:54:51.240 Jan Bonhoeffer: It is much more about the attitude you bring so we could actually and I see this happening in medical schools, now we could train these things we call it.

00:54:52.140 --> 00:54:59.100 Jan Bonhoeffer: We call it communication trainings and it's a little bit like the waiter in the hospital in the in the restaurant was everything all right.

00:55:00.510 --> 00:55:11.070 Jan Bonhoeffer: But actually there's no care, there is it's it's something that is learned to be said, and the patient will immediately pick up whether the doctor has learned to sit on the bedside.

00:55:11.670 --> 00:55:17.220 Jan Bonhoeffer: and put the hand on your arm because that's now considered compassionate and that gives it gives you know.

00:55:17.520 --> 00:55:30.360 Jan Bonhoeffer: increases your patient satisfaction ranking everybody will get this immediately that this is a learned behavior and it is not true, a truly hurtful attitude cannot be faked it cannot be faked.

00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:37.890 Jan Bonhoeffer: With somebody suffering if somebody is in need, we got to be truthful we got to be honest, and that means we need to learn about authenticity.

00:55:38.160 --> 00:55:47.670 Jan Bonhoeffer: And it means we need to learn about sovereignty and that's as you've just beautifully explained with nurses and we could do the same for doctors is what is sorely missing in healthcare.

00:55:49.110 --> 00:55:54.630 Frank R. Harrison: Well, it turns out that we're about to go into our next break and into the second hour.

00:55:55.350 --> 00:56:02.070 Frank R. Harrison: When we get back, I want to answer this question that came in from Facebook, I think, Dr young, you said you would be able to handle it for us.

00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:10.950 Frank R. Harrison: And then we want to really get into sharing the care because that's what we're talking about we're talking about the lack of sharing that has traditionally been in the healthcare system.

00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:22.560 Frank R. Harrison: And that I don't know I, my view is that I think due to the pandemic there has just been a major shift that is required, everyone to be very mindful of their own health care, then in turn.

00:56:22.890 --> 00:56:33.390 Frank R. Harrison: Probably transfer that care to their family and close loved ones, but I think the the module here that is needed is to get everyone on board with sharing the care.

00:56:33.780 --> 00:56:46.560 Frank R. Harrison: Even to people whom they don't know so, ladies and gentlemen, please stay tuned as we are being frank about patient centered care, right here on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook live we'll be back in a few states.

01:00:12.720 --> 01:00:16.770 Frank R. Harrison: Welcome to the second hour of this special episode of frank about health.

01:00:17.550 --> 01:00:24.960 Frank R. Harrison: we're getting a lot of questions on Facebook, I want to before we actually introduced sheila Warnock from share the

01:00:25.350 --> 01:00:33.030 Frank R. Harrison: We want to continue answering some of the questions about patient centered caregiving that we've heard in the last hour and one particular person Melanie.

01:00:33.570 --> 01:00:41.820 Frank R. Harrison: is starting to ask about burnout I know phyllis that's one of your favorite topics, and I know that it's pretty much what all of us have been dealing with on many levels.

01:00:42.990 --> 01:00:54.990 Frank R. Harrison: And I think Dr young you're probably best to answer this question Melanie asks is the burnout starting in MED school i'm thinking of my sister in law and watching her journey to become a physician.

01:00:56.790 --> 01:01:12.990 Jan Bonhoeffer: yeah short answer is absolutely so it's more than 50% of medical students who at the time of their final exams are actually showing signs of burnout, which is very interesting so by the time you're actually called or labeled certified.

01:01:14.340 --> 01:01:24.750 Jan Bonhoeffer: To be a health care, professional and start to see patients that's the time when you're already half empty so that's a that's a very interesting and quite disastrous, to be honest, finding.

01:01:25.080 --> 01:01:25.740 Frank R. Harrison: right that.

01:01:26.340 --> 01:01:29.310 Jan Bonhoeffer: we're not starting with our cups full but half empty.

01:01:30.630 --> 01:01:40.080 Jan Bonhoeffer: The other question that relates to, that is, what are the consequences of this so does burnout actually affect our ability to.

01:01:40.830 --> 01:01:45.870 Jan Bonhoeffer: relate to patients in a harmful way and in a compassionate way and it absolutely does.

01:01:46.320 --> 01:02:03.600 Jan Bonhoeffer: Because when we're in burnout it means we're in a state of exhaustion we're in a state where in a survival mode we're in a fight and flight mode we're in a that turns our analytic brain on and it gets us into Problem Solving mode, which turns patients into problems.

01:02:03.930 --> 01:02:21.450 Jan Bonhoeffer: To be solved it make turns as into detectives but it doesn't actually activate our heart so in when we're in in fight or flight the priorities, not to connect and to bond and to share and to resonate and to receive and see the world through the patient's eyes it's about my own survival.

01:02:21.900 --> 01:02:22.260 Frank R. Harrison: Right.

01:02:22.770 --> 01:02:30.600 Jan Bonhoeffer: The real problem about this is that, and I can speak from experience, unfortunately, the real problem about this is that.

01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:42.960 Jan Bonhoeffer: it's a little bit like an alcoholic right if you ask an alcoholic or any of the addict for that, for that matter, if you ask them like do you have a problem with alcohol, it says no, I don't have any broad without your.

01:02:44.100 --> 01:02:47.220 Jan Bonhoeffer: So so that's the same with with physicians.

01:02:47.310 --> 01:02:54.330 Jan Bonhoeffer: When when you asked like do you feel you're burned out do you feel like oh no Of course not, you know I mean who would be burned out i'm a professional right.

01:02:54.720 --> 01:03:00.210 Jan Bonhoeffer: So there is actually it turns into a blind spot is really hard to see the.

01:03:00.870 --> 01:03:12.900 Jan Bonhoeffer: burnout and it's in kind of protection and defense of of those working there, why do health care professionals going to burn out it's because what we have mentioned a couple of times already, is that.

01:03:13.530 --> 01:03:22.770 Jan Bonhoeffer: Healthcare professionals, want to help, they want to be there and it's so strong that kind of anything that speaks against that or any other part of us.

01:03:23.460 --> 01:03:34.530 Jan Bonhoeffer: That isn't aligned with the wanting the the well intending healthcare professional is ignored, so we don't see that part in us that actually feels exhausted and actually feels needing help.

01:03:36.120 --> 01:03:37.470 Lee Tomlinson: You have one thought to that.

01:03:37.770 --> 01:03:49.170 Lee Tomlinson: Sure um what I mean obviously since providing compassionate care, in addition to competent care has been deemed to be absolutely necessary for the best outcomes.

01:03:49.560 --> 01:04:03.000 Lee Tomlinson: what's also true is that when our health care professionals are burned out they're incapable of being compassionate and medical errors are increased 600%.

01:04:04.110 --> 01:04:12.300 Lee Tomlinson: With burned out medical professionals of any kind, doctors, nurses, you name it so when a professional gets burnt out.

01:04:13.290 --> 01:04:21.720 Lee Tomlinson: Not only are they killing themselves and their colleagues and the bottom line at the hospital they're killing their patients as well and.

01:04:22.290 --> 01:04:33.420 Lee Tomlinson: either by medical error, with increased percentage, as well as an absolute lack of compassion so solving the problem of.

01:04:34.200 --> 01:04:53.250 Lee Tomlinson: Was it 50% of Americans today this is astounding 50% of Americans today say they experience zero compassion in their medical interactions and given the compassion, is essential to the best practice outcomes in long term health.

01:04:54.960 --> 01:05:02.490 Lee Tomlinson: that's the problem 50% of patients they're being deprived 50% are not being given a critical element.

01:05:04.020 --> 01:05:04.410 Lee Tomlinson: here.

01:05:04.890 --> 01:05:08.730 Jan Bonhoeffer: Although probably also probably close to 100% one to give it.

01:05:09.780 --> 01:05:09.930 Lee Tomlinson: away.

01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:19.470 Lee Tomlinson: And they do I understand I love that kept me alive more times than I can remember, I love my doctors and nurses, most people in that hospital gave me such terrible care.

01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:31.050 Lee Tomlinson: I have empathy and compassion for them now having studied the difficulties they fit who wants to be a doctor and blood or nurse blood and guts and bedpans and.

01:05:31.140 --> 01:05:31.860 Phyllis Quinlan: A lot of people.

01:05:32.970 --> 01:05:52.050 Lee Tomlinson: I understand, and thanks God, they do, but I couldn't, and so I actually think their gods and goddesses and they hurt to my job for the rest of my life is to see how I can help them heal so they can better heal themselves and their patients that's all of our right.

01:05:52.230 --> 01:05:53.610 Reatha Grey: And then, when they.

01:05:53.850 --> 01:05:58.050 Reatha Grey: I remember when they used to teach doctors bedside manner.

01:05:58.380 --> 01:06:02.430 Reatha Grey: yeah and and they had compassion yeah.

01:06:03.150 --> 01:06:09.000 Lee Tomlinson: Well, most of them still do have it it's just been covered up by all the pain they're experiencing.

01:06:09.630 --> 01:06:19.440 Lee Tomlinson: And so we because we've got a system values profit over patients and profit over caregivers healthcare professionals we've got to reverse that.

01:06:20.010 --> 01:06:24.090 Lee Tomlinson: we've got to make them realize that if you're in the business of treating cheering and comforting.

01:06:24.510 --> 01:06:31.980 Lee Tomlinson: Not only do you have to take care of the mental physical and emotional needs of your patients, you have to do it with your staff as well.

01:06:32.790 --> 01:06:42.210 Lee Tomlinson: or it'll never happen for your patience, and that is a terrible tragedy because with this terrible shortage of doctors and nurses in the United States.

01:06:42.720 --> 01:06:57.120 Lee Tomlinson: it's getting worse because everybody is literally not everybody, most people are literally burned out they can't do it anymore, so there is a compassionate crisis in American healthcare without doubt.

01:06:57.600 --> 01:06:58.920 Lee Tomlinson: can speak around the world.

01:06:59.310 --> 01:07:03.750 Lee Tomlinson: But if you're from what you're saying it's not just here it's everywhere.

01:07:04.200 --> 01:07:13.740 Frank R. Harrison: yeah and Melanie on Facebook, who asked that question also asked the similar similar question which I think you answered that Dr yon about her compassion meter which he equated.

01:07:14.100 --> 01:07:21.840 Frank R. Harrison: As the relationship between the health care, professional and the patient now The irony is is that while everybody like risa said.

01:07:22.140 --> 01:07:30.210 Frank R. Harrison: used to take courses in bedside manner sort of you know or get trained in bedside manner, I guess what was never really taught until the crisis of the pandemic.

01:07:30.570 --> 01:07:41.370 Frank R. Harrison: Was the idea to own and be aware that you have a compassion meter and try to use it to your advantage, rather than let it go by the wayside because you were first taught to do no harm and enter the problem.

01:07:41.670 --> 01:07:47.340 Frank R. Harrison: without looking at the the human element which apparently we've all been forced into dealing with that correct.

01:07:48.240 --> 01:07:58.590 Jan Bonhoeffer: it's probably one of the most difficult situations for any health care professional if there is a critical incident and it becomes clear that oh my God, I made a mistake restaurant.

01:07:59.040 --> 01:08:05.730 Jan Bonhoeffer: With the one thing that nobody actually wants to experience and when you go through critical incident reporting meetings.

01:08:06.720 --> 01:08:17.430 Jan Bonhoeffer: Critical incidents occur, the medical errors that that legals report referring to actually occurs, the third common cause in the US of dying right now is it's actually being exposed to health care so.

01:08:17.940 --> 01:08:28.890 Jan Bonhoeffer: That means that means that everybody trying so hard and feeling incredibly bad about making a mistake, my experiences when I asked.

01:08:29.340 --> 01:08:40.290 Jan Bonhoeffer: In these meetings when I asked the person who made a mistake said, do you think you would have made the same mistake if it if the patient was your daughter or your mother.

01:08:42.390 --> 01:08:43.050 Frank R. Harrison: incredible.

01:08:43.440 --> 01:08:44.490 Phyllis Quinlan: And they are no.

01:08:46.080 --> 01:08:46.920 Phyllis Quinlan: Yes.

01:08:47.010 --> 01:09:02.730 Phyllis Quinlan: And no sorry to jump inductee on we call that second fiction syndrome and a big part of my coaching population is working with professionals who have unfortunately been involved in a in a medical error, whether it's a near miss and medical area with that injury or medical or with injury.

01:09:03.870 --> 01:09:14.370 Phyllis Quinlan: And it's really important, because these people these these really compassionate practitioners are devastated about what that what has occurred.

01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:26.880 Phyllis Quinlan: And you know in many times they wouldn't have to report they've self reported they walked in and said I just did this, and we have to rescue this patient, we have to do something to make sure that what I did.

01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:36.540 Phyllis Quinlan: is counterbalanced you know and they advocate for the patient, where you know a lot of a lot of people might say, you know, let me duck under here and, hopefully, nobody knows it.

01:09:36.900 --> 01:09:46.830 Phyllis Quinlan: But trying to put these folks back together when they are combating you know working conditions that are not necessarily healthy systems that are not necessarily seamless.

01:09:47.220 --> 01:09:54.060 Phyllis Quinlan: and work environments that are you know, sometimes on the toxic side in a focus on efficiency as opposed to caring.

01:09:54.540 --> 01:10:05.550 Phyllis Quinlan: And then, all of a sudden, you know they're they're struggling with that moral dilemma, and then they commit an error, it is catastrophic for that caregiver and that's one of the reasons why we call it second victim syndrome.

01:10:07.290 --> 01:10:11.820 Frank R. Harrison: amazing I think we lost lead, by the way, I don't see him here anymore.

01:10:12.630 --> 01:10:22.170 Frank R. Harrison: But I guess he'll find his way back, but I think the one thing that we're now about to talk about is a compilation of everything that was just spent in the past hour with.

01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:34.290 Frank R. Harrison: All the aspects of empathy and compassion and and the need for an educational model that needs to be introduced into the health care professional into the medical students and even to the patient's themselves.

01:10:35.220 --> 01:10:45.510 Frank R. Harrison: And that brings us now to sheila Warnock but phyllis i'd like you to do the honors and and really you know let's let's really start to share the care in the next 45 minutes well.

01:10:45.930 --> 01:10:59.340 Phyllis Quinlan: Thank you, frank, I have the distinct honor of being able to introduce to you sheila Warnock, who is a near and dear friend we've worked together over 10 years now she is the founder and the CEO of share the care organization share the

01:11:00.360 --> 01:11:07.050 Phyllis Quinlan: She is a beloved colleague and you talk about making lemonade from lemons she came up with her own care model.

01:11:07.470 --> 01:11:16.470 Phyllis Quinlan: Post discharge to keep patients and their families, patient and the family caregiver safe and comfortable and supportive in the Community.

01:11:17.280 --> 01:11:24.000 Phyllis Quinlan: Truly out of her own life experiences and she has written a book share the care, but what I.

01:11:24.750 --> 01:11:38.970 Phyllis Quinlan: know I certainly want to introduce sheila and let her speak, but one of the questions she lives you've been listening to all of this and how do you think share the care could be woven into some of our academic preparation for professional caregivers to help raise empathy.

01:11:40.020 --> 01:11:41.370 Sheila Warnock: Oh absolutely.

01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:53.040 Sheila Warnock: I think it offers the professionals, doctors, the nurses, the social workers everybody at the hospital something to offer.

01:11:53.550 --> 01:12:14.400 Sheila Warnock: Their patients and families who they see struggling with the caregiving job, it is a model that allows these people to create their own caregiving family out of friends neighbors co workers acquaintances faith communities, but it's it's unique um.

01:12:16.200 --> 01:12:23.970 Sheila Warnock: Maybe if I just kind of explain a little bit about how it again you'll get a better idea of what i'm talking about because.

01:12:26.040 --> 01:12:39.120 Sheila Warnock: Back in 1984 I became a solitary caregiver from my mother, for a period of four years, which was a quite an experience and talking about burnout I was totally wasted.

01:12:39.540 --> 01:12:56.280 Sheila Warnock: After that, for years, my father was deceased my brother lived in Japan, and at that time in 1984 there was absolutely nothing in the world to help caregivers In fact I don't even think it was an acknowledged word.

01:12:57.090 --> 01:13:02.850 Sheila Warnock: caregivers so it was desolate at the same time I had.

01:13:02.850 --> 01:13:02.910 A.

01:13:03.930 --> 01:13:07.650 Sheila Warnock: divorced working mom with two young teen teen agers.

01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:24.180 Sheila Warnock: Who was diagnosed with a rare terminal cancer of the parotid gland and so when I wasn't helping my mother who lived long distance from me and running back and forth, I was trying to help her emotionally.

01:13:24.690 --> 01:13:40.080 Sheila Warnock: After she went through surgery and radiation treatments her friends knew about this case but they figured it was all fine when she went back to work, my friend Susan was a very tough lady, and she was going to fight this.

01:13:41.130 --> 01:13:49.170 Sheila Warnock: over the four years while i'm caring for my mother and trying to help her her cancer progressed she had more radiation more surgeries.

01:13:49.800 --> 01:14:00.210 Sheila Warnock: And she kept it a secret again that was another thing that was very common back then that nobody talked about their illnesses, it was like hidden under the rug.

01:14:00.870 --> 01:14:10.620 Sheila Warnock: But, finally I reached a point with my mom where I had to resort to a nursing home where should we have for the next seven years, and I continued on as my mother's mother.

01:14:11.190 --> 01:14:21.540 Sheila Warnock: But my friend, reached a crisis, when she thought that she was going in for another test to see if the cancer had gone to her spine, and she wouldn't be able to walk.

01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:35.850 Sheila Warnock: Thankfully, she was seeing a therapist Dr suki Miller, who strongly suggested that she called her friends get them to her office, the next night, just so we could figure out how we could help her.

01:14:36.450 --> 01:14:40.170 Frank R. Harrison: I have to say i'm so sorry we're about to go into another break but.

01:14:40.290 --> 01:14:53.250 Frank R. Harrison: Okay, great and it leaves us for a lot of food for thought so, ladies and gentlemen, please stay tuned as we hear more from sheila Warnock as she shares the care with all of us, right here on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook live.

01:17:05.760 --> 01:17:08.250 Frank R. Harrison: Welcome back everybody to this episode of frank about health.

01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:19.860 Frank R. Harrison: Warnock was just talking about the experience that she was having in dealing with a personal friend of hers that I believe was dealing with a quality of care issue.

01:17:22.140 --> 01:17:30.570 Sheila Warnock: So anyway yeah hurt their up is suggested that she called her friends get them to her office, the next night and we'll figure out how to help you.

01:17:31.320 --> 01:17:43.410 Sheila Warnock: Unless than 24 hours notice 12 of US showed up we didn't know each other We walked into the room, and you know they were strangers, because they all came from different parts of our friends life.

01:17:44.100 --> 01:17:57.120 Sheila Warnock: And the reason that i'm going into this meeting is because it was it turned out to be the keystone for what share the care is all about it's the heart of what share the care is, and it goes it happens in this.

01:17:57.930 --> 01:18:03.120 Sheila Warnock: Meeting that's very essential when you bring a group of people together, who don't know each other.

01:18:03.810 --> 01:18:16.860 Sheila Warnock: First of all, everybody was introduced to each other what we did for a living, etc, etc, but then, importantly, our friend told everyone in the room, exactly what was going on with her so that.

01:18:17.400 --> 01:18:36.900 Sheila Warnock: Nobody was you know guessing or hearing rumors or you know, ignoring the fact that this was really happening, I mean this was a wake up call, and everyone arrived in different states of emotion fear terror skepticism I for one was.

01:18:36.930 --> 01:18:37.920 Phyllis Quinlan: very grateful.

01:18:38.430 --> 01:18:41.490 Sheila Warnock: that other people were going to be involved and.

01:18:42.390 --> 01:18:53.100 Sheila Warnock: began, and as we work through the evening we all agreed, where we're going to be there for our friend, no matter what it took and that night we actually came up with a system.

01:18:53.460 --> 01:19:08.520 Sheila Warnock: That was to be the key system for share the care and it's called the rotating Captain system, and there were 12 of us, we decided to work in teams of two so that we had six teams that would rotate.

01:19:09.810 --> 01:19:14.820 Sheila Warnock: Week after week with one another, so never burned out, but the captains of the week.

01:19:15.210 --> 01:19:26.160 Sheila Warnock: would find out what our friend needed call everybody else get the jobs handled and then rotate with a new team, this also took away the need for our friend to have to ask for help.

01:19:26.520 --> 01:19:33.090 Sheila Warnock: Because that's the hardest thing in the world to do when you need help, so we started in the very next day.

01:19:33.900 --> 01:19:47.220 Sheila Warnock: And for the next three and a half years we did everything under the sun, the moon, and the stars to help our friend and in fact we became widely known in New York City as susan's funny family.

01:19:48.960 --> 01:20:00.690 Sheila Warnock: And after after our friend passed away, we were asked by others who were in similar circumstances if we could help their friends organize like we had done.

01:20:00.930 --> 01:20:11.340 Sheila Warnock: To help them the fact the first woman was about to have a bone marrow transplant, and she had 20 friends men and women, this time, who, who showed up.

01:20:11.940 --> 01:20:22.350 Sheila Warnock: And they showed up this was what was fascinating they showed up just like we had in our first meeting terrified or am I getting into oh my God I don't know if I have enough time.

01:20:23.190 --> 01:20:33.960 Sheila Warnock: But as they listened and we spoke to them about the way we work, we shared responsibilities we had become like family, even though we didn't know each other.

01:20:34.740 --> 01:20:44.880 Sheila Warnock: That we saw them trance warm before our eyes and that is what inspired myself and the late Kappa Kappa sela.

01:20:45.300 --> 01:20:59.100 Sheila Warnock: to write share the care, which is a step by step, organized way on how people can replicate exactly what we did with all the forms the principles, the systems and then the rest of.

01:20:59.520 --> 01:21:13.110 Sheila Warnock: The book is about teamwork we don't teach homecare we don't teach you know anything about all timers or ALS we teach teamwork and that's what this is all about.

01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:19.470 Sheila Warnock: So the first meeting is actually scripted so that the two friends.

01:21:20.010 --> 01:21:35.910 Sheila Warnock: Because this is not a job for the caregiver or the care receiver to have to do or worry about, but their two friends will follow the directions that are written specifically to them to organize this first meeting that gets everything going.

01:21:36.870 --> 01:21:37.710 Sheila Warnock: Even have.

01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:39.660 Phyllis Quinlan: example.

01:21:40.530 --> 01:21:48.180 Sheila Warnock: When a second meeting might be needed and that usually happens when there has been a dramatic change.

01:21:48.630 --> 01:21:58.110 Sheila Warnock: In the care recipient they're getting better they're getting worse, whatever so on and so forth, how it started off for someone with cancer, but ever since.

01:21:58.950 --> 01:22:12.090 Sheila Warnock: We wrote the book, it was published in 1995 so it's 25 years, this is working it again it's very grassroots it spreads mostly word of mouth by people who have used it.

01:22:13.200 --> 01:22:25.740 Sheila Warnock: And the thing is, and this is, this is what gets gets me riled up and going when you're talking about education, I didn't come at this being.

01:22:26.430 --> 01:22:39.090 Sheila Warnock: A professional a health care person I my mother was a nurse, and my father was a teacher and those were the last two things on earth, I wanted to do, because I was a creative person so guess what.

01:22:40.170 --> 01:22:42.300 Sheila Warnock: You get put where you're needed but.

01:22:42.420 --> 01:22:42.750 Frank R. Harrison: Right.

01:22:43.230 --> 01:22:48.360 Sheila Warnock: The thing the thing that that I tell people, especially caregivers.

01:22:49.530 --> 01:23:01.290 Sheila Warnock: Somebody someone is suddenly a caregiver there is no training, no one teaches us how to be a caregiver we end up in the lion's den much like rafe is.

01:23:01.710 --> 01:23:17.340 Sheila Warnock: But you know, having to deal with all these things, and all these circumstances, and especially at discharge you sat home with a laundry list of what you have to do, and you barely can hear what they're telling you because you're so frightened.

01:23:19.110 --> 01:23:38.250 Sheila Warnock: I am totally committed to seeing share the care being taught to nurses, social workers Community colleges even high schools, because everybody on this planet will be touched by caregiving at some point in life and.

01:23:39.270 --> 01:23:48.330 Sheila Warnock: As you've all said, you know we're running out of nurses we're running out of doctors, you know they're burning out there, they can't do everything I can't be everything to the patient.

01:23:49.320 --> 01:23:56.430 Sheila Warnock: But their friends who know that can come in and really carry the flag and I have seen.

01:23:57.360 --> 01:24:14.340 Sheila Warnock: Over the course of 25 years from a difficult pregnancy, all the way up to end of life, how friends can keep your life running how they take care of the entire family, because when someone is ill, their whole family hurts.

01:24:15.510 --> 01:24:16.020 Sheila Warnock: and

01:24:18.510 --> 01:24:28.740 Sheila Warnock: we've got to get over this phobia in this country of fear of caregiving and death and dying, you know it's probably one of the most.

01:24:29.820 --> 01:24:33.300 Sheila Warnock: Incredible experiences to journey with someone.

01:24:33.990 --> 01:24:39.570 Phyllis Quinlan: Through, so I think frank, you can you can understand why sheila had me at Hello 10 or 10 plus years ago.

01:24:41.670 --> 01:24:53.640 Phyllis Quinlan: So when we were introduced by a mutual friend and you know here I am I care for caregivers she comes up with this and has no clinical nursing medical background comes up with this model of care.

01:24:54.090 --> 01:25:01.200 Phyllis Quinlan: And you know, at first, I said well you know, in full disclosure, I am a member of the board of directors of this not for profit organization.

01:25:02.250 --> 01:25:06.030 Phyllis Quinlan: You know, the first thing I said to her is this needs to be taught to discharge planners.

01:25:06.300 --> 01:25:17.430 Phyllis Quinlan: This should be something that is a model option for discharge now, when we we talked about discharge planning, we say discharge planning should happen at the time of admission alone great.

01:25:17.850 --> 01:25:25.770 Phyllis Quinlan: And I think that we should you know have that each hospital long term care facility sub acute care facility home care.

01:25:26.520 --> 01:25:37.950 Phyllis Quinlan: organizations should have a their own share the care protocols to be able to hold family meetings planning meetings before the patient goes home.

01:25:38.430 --> 01:25:48.480 Phyllis Quinlan: To to try to impart to them the techniques of the first meeting the techniques of teamwork, the techniques of creating care captains and.

01:25:49.110 --> 01:26:10.470 Phyllis Quinlan: The calendar that works, so that you know we can keep the patient more safely in their chosen place of care, which is, by and large, their home and and and you know, and not just care for the person who's being cared for, but to care for that caregiver because we're held to a database of.

01:26:11.730 --> 01:26:17.640 Phyllis Quinlan: Trying to make sure that we don't have avoidable readmissions within 45 days of discharge from an acute care facility.

01:26:18.330 --> 01:26:29.220 Phyllis Quinlan: And the two main reasons why that does happen if somebody doesn't understand their medication administration and they mix them stuff that makes them medications up or you have caregiver fatigue burnout or fear.

01:26:29.460 --> 01:26:29.940 Phyllis Quinlan: yeah.

01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:34.290 Phyllis Quinlan: You know, because they're not prepared so all of a sudden somebody gets shorter breath.

01:26:34.710 --> 01:26:41.730 Phyllis Quinlan: And instead of saying okay let's let's let's take a look at your medication let's do this let's do some mindfulness or something.

01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:57.450 Phyllis Quinlan: The poor family caregiver only looking to advocate for the safety of your family is calling 911 and the patient goes right back to the hospital, the whole cycle starts over again so sheila's sheila's care model, I think, is a gift to the planet.

01:26:58.170 --> 01:27:03.780 Frank R. Harrison: And at the moment, it appears to be not just a website, but also a movement that has a curriculum.

01:27:03.780 --> 01:27:05.160 Phyllis Quinlan: and international movement.

01:27:05.460 --> 01:27:08.790 Frank R. Harrison: But is there a curriculum in development or has it already been developed.

01:27:09.390 --> 01:27:23.430 Sheila Warnock: When I first started the nonprofit organization which wasn't until 2003 after I lost my co author to a brain tumor we have 33 of us taking care of her, she was totally helpless.

01:27:25.320 --> 01:27:33.150 Sheila Warnock: That that propelled me into starting the organization to get the word out about share the care and a much bigger level.

01:27:33.420 --> 01:27:34.590 Sheila Warnock: And so, my first.

01:27:35.070 --> 01:27:42.930 Sheila Warnock: My first reaction was to get out there and talk to caregivers by caregivers are too tired they think they can't hear anything they've just.

01:27:43.560 --> 01:27:54.390 Sheila Warnock: Forget about it, so I figured the best way to reach them would be through the health professionals and also the faith Community people that you know clergy.

01:27:54.690 --> 01:27:55.890 Sheila Warnock: So I developed a.

01:27:55.890 --> 01:28:06.150 Sheila Warnock: curriculum for that very purpose it's called seeding share the care in your community which i've done all over the US and in Canada and.

01:28:07.470 --> 01:28:17.970 Sheila Warnock: it's a way of getting the concept of helping each other kindness compassion, you know all of this and using.

01:28:18.840 --> 01:28:34.320 Sheila Warnock: I also need to point out that it's very, very beneficial to everyone involved, not just the caregiver or the care recipient, but to each and every participant in this group, because they get to give within comfortable doing.

01:28:35.160 --> 01:28:41.580 Sheila Warnock: They give the amount of time they can give and they bond and make real family.

01:28:41.850 --> 01:28:47.640 Sheila Warnock: Yes, difference between bringing dinner on Thursday and creating a family.

01:28:48.390 --> 01:28:52.230 Phyllis Quinlan: So when you when you when you walk a mile in someone's shoes.

01:28:52.260 --> 01:28:56.370 Phyllis Quinlan: Which is, which is, if we can get this into the academic areas.

01:28:57.420 --> 01:29:05.370 Phyllis Quinlan: or even into hope you know healthcare organizations to not only be taught to be taught to discharge planners, but maybe we've done is.

01:29:05.820 --> 01:29:19.650 Phyllis Quinlan: As continuing education to the healthcare organization, when you start to think about what does it take to plan for discharge you start to walk a mile in that patient and family members, shoes, which is a pathway to compassion and empathy.

01:29:20.100 --> 01:29:25.560 Frank R. Harrison: Right, by the way we teach this to people too, because they need to keep their.

01:29:25.560 --> 01:29:26.340 Reatha Grey: tried.

01:29:27.300 --> 01:29:31.470 Reatha Grey: To keep people around them, I know I know you're on a break.

01:29:31.680 --> 01:29:42.990 Frank R. Harrison: Where you were already do but, believe it or not, I have the answers to every comment that each of you said and plus Dr jada want you to talk about your online course and see how this potentially integrates with share the care.

01:29:43.980 --> 01:29:53.190 Frank R. Harrison: Ladies and gentlemen, stay tuned we'll be back in a few minutes, right here on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook live, we are being frank about patient centered help.

01:31:55.740 --> 01:31:58.410 Frank R. Harrison: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this episode of grey's anatomy.

01:31:58.770 --> 01:32:00.150 Frank R. Harrison: Sorry frank about health.

01:32:02.190 --> 01:32:08.820 Frank R. Harrison: Know honestly i've just reflecting on the fact that the last 90 Minutes have been very thought provoking insightful.

01:32:09.480 --> 01:32:13.980 Frank R. Harrison: reflective as most of you know i've had an issue for the past year and a half.

01:32:14.400 --> 01:32:27.060 Frank R. Harrison: Of not just all of us, dealing with coven but my father has been recovering for prostate cancer, I became by default his caregiver and recently i've gotten involved in my my cousin's care, she has.

01:32:27.630 --> 01:32:34.800 Frank R. Harrison: A history of brain bleeds through to a cardiac cardiac procedure that she had 10 years ago that has left her.

01:32:35.670 --> 01:32:44.670 Frank R. Harrison: In a dementia state but she's very cognitive cognitive about things as i'm dealing with her, but to be mindful of her while i'm not around her is challenge.

01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:56.550 Frank R. Harrison: And that's where I work with her son, who is for CDP ap worker so assigned caregiver through the medicare system here and then i'm also still working with my parents and making sure they're getting their booster shots.

01:32:57.300 --> 01:33:07.230 Frank R. Harrison: In addition to a lot of other things going on with my own health recently I just came from a CT scan yesterday to the trying to see if I potentially have heart disease, of course, these are scary moments.

01:33:07.650 --> 01:33:15.540 Frank R. Harrison: But i've learned from just doing my show by talking to you guys by noticing, to have a very essential support system around you that you can deal with it.

01:33:16.110 --> 01:33:22.830 Frank R. Harrison: You can have the compassion, you can also give it to yourself, when you don't have it around you as much as we would all like to have it, you know.

01:33:23.460 --> 01:33:30.750 Frank R. Harrison: I wanted to wrap up a lot of what sheila just mentioned about the shared care organization, because I think it crosses a lot of what.

01:33:31.050 --> 01:33:34.500 Frank R. Harrison: Dr john's been talking about across is definitely what research has been dealing with.

01:33:34.920 --> 01:33:42.120 Frank R. Harrison: It actually Lee you were telling me about how you have a story about a brain cancer situation which, I think.

01:33:42.480 --> 01:33:48.390 Frank R. Harrison: You and sheila could discuss further, but I also want to give a shout out to our Facebook question here today.

01:33:48.720 --> 01:34:03.960 Frank R. Harrison: Melanie who actually just I think got her question answered the question was how can we give medical and nursing students, the tools, training and resources to cope with burnout before it harms patients and providers, I think the answer is share the care.

01:34:05.010 --> 01:34:07.140 Phyllis Quinlan: I think that's I think it's part of it.

01:34:07.800 --> 01:34:13.830 Phyllis Quinlan: frank, but I also think that we have to start creating a culture where caregivers can actually.

01:34:14.610 --> 01:34:26.940 Phyllis Quinlan: feel safe have a psychological safety around accepting care for themselves or saying that they need to promote some self care, there is no psychological safety around that in many in many healthcare cultures today.

01:34:27.900 --> 01:34:38.910 Phyllis Quinlan: There is a movement, more than a movement there there, there is a i'm going to call it a movement in acute care hospitals today to try to put not just empathy but good leadership.

01:34:39.360 --> 01:34:50.370 Phyllis Quinlan: And, and to give nurses more of a voice in the healthcare organizations, and that is called the magnet designation movement, it is where the healthcare organization championed by the.

01:34:50.970 --> 01:34:58.650 Phyllis Quinlan: department of nursing has to meet certain criteria, and also to show that nurses are getting back their voice that nurses are.

01:34:58.950 --> 01:35:08.190 Phyllis Quinlan: Being able to reconnect with your heart in their compassionate nature that nurses are truly performing at the level that they should be, and not just worried about the financial things that.

01:35:08.640 --> 01:35:15.330 Phyllis Quinlan: Other highly educated more qualified financial people should be worrying about that, indeed, nurses, are doing caring.

01:35:15.780 --> 01:35:21.990 Phyllis Quinlan: When we need to to answer melanie's question promote that that that nate that.

01:35:22.920 --> 01:35:37.260 Phyllis Quinlan: Culture, where, if you say you need a break you're not looked at as being broken or less than or damaged or incapable or incompetent, because that is that in many cases is the culture, we have out there, what one of the.

01:35:39.060 --> 01:35:51.780 Phyllis Quinlan: antidotes I believe for burnout, and this is something i've been championing now for a while, is is the development of individual emotional intelligence, so the recipe for success.

01:35:52.350 --> 01:36:04.080 Phyllis Quinlan: In yon stay in mind day is academic preparation and very, very honed clinical skills and if you do those things, and maybe publish, you will have a successful career.

01:36:04.440 --> 01:36:16.860 Phyllis Quinlan: And we know now that what's the secret sauce that is missing is that ability to make an authentic connection with another, and the only way to make that authentic connection with another is to first make that authentic connection with yourself.

01:36:17.190 --> 01:36:19.590 Phyllis Quinlan: So while emotional intelligence.

01:36:19.650 --> 01:36:28.710 Phyllis Quinlan: Is you know used as a training tool or training methodology for many people, to be more successful or I use it as a remedy.

01:36:29.910 --> 01:36:44.850 Phyllis Quinlan: To give a safe space to help people reconnect with, why are they acting in a manner or speaking in a manner that they're going to regret 10 minutes after they do it mm hmm and walk those things back.

01:36:45.570 --> 01:36:49.530 Phyllis Quinlan: And you do use the the competence of self awareness and self.

01:36:49.530 --> 01:36:58.920 Phyllis Quinlan: management as really the chewing of the glass kind of methodology that has to happen to break up what's going on inside of.

01:36:59.610 --> 01:37:09.780 Phyllis Quinlan: caregivers to help them be able to make that authentic connection with the social competencies of emotional intelligence which are social awareness and relationship management.

01:37:10.230 --> 01:37:17.760 Phyllis Quinlan: The premise that I put out there, and of course emotional intelligence practitioners put out there is that if you first.

01:37:18.300 --> 01:37:25.230 Phyllis Quinlan: lean into your challenges you become that much more aware of how difficult it is to be a professional adult in the 21st century.

01:37:26.010 --> 01:37:34.830 Phyllis Quinlan: And then you lean into that boot camp moment you lean into that moment that's shows you where you're strong but, more importantly, shows you where you need to do a little work.

01:37:35.310 --> 01:37:56.520 Phyllis Quinlan: And if you can find the loving kindness and the that the personal courage to lean in as opposed to shut down we've been told to shut down burn out into our heads, we need to lean in and be more sensitive to that, then when someone says to you says, I have pain.

01:37:56.940 --> 01:37:58.260 Phyllis Quinlan: I may not know what that.

01:37:58.260 --> 01:38:08.550 Phyllis Quinlan: person's pain is but i've experienced pain and I now connect with that patient on a similar experience, not the same experience the similar experience.

01:38:09.090 --> 01:38:26.010 Phyllis Quinlan: And in there, I can find common ground, which is the root of empathy and compassion that for me is the pathway back in the secret sauce that's missing and as a coach that's really what i'm hoping to offer and have been offering professional and family characters.

01:38:26.310 --> 01:38:28.200 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly yeah and is that similar to the course that you.

01:38:28.200 --> 01:38:30.360 Frank R. Harrison: Currently, have online over there and Switzerland.

01:38:31.770 --> 01:38:42.420 Jan Bonhoeffer: is probably cloud orange is complimentary, so I think what it may help from at least from an international point of view, when I hear the word caregiver.

01:38:43.680 --> 01:38:46.890 Jan Bonhoeffer: Data that I think has very different meanings in different cultures.

01:38:47.970 --> 01:38:52.140 Jan Bonhoeffer: So it may include everybody giving care, you know caring.

01:38:52.830 --> 01:39:05.160 Jan Bonhoeffer: Right, it may include nonprofessionals in some countries is non professionals who are from the Community, providing care like what you've outlined like as a son now become a default caregiver and, of course.

01:39:05.580 --> 01:39:15.090 Jan Bonhoeffer: What could be more valuable than a good friend, or a neighbor or somebody in your community to actually care for you right and then that there is one group of caregivers.

01:39:15.720 --> 01:39:33.330 Jan Bonhoeffer: That are professionally trained as a nurse or a doctor or as a physiotherapist or, as I call it, whatever the kind of the the name of the trade or the profession might be, and so I think it's it's helpful for us if we think of a culture change that is across all the different.

01:39:34.740 --> 01:39:37.470 Jan Bonhoeffer: capacities and professions that are needed.

01:39:38.490 --> 01:39:46.920 Jan Bonhoeffer: I think it's helpful for us to recognize that the needs some of the needs everybody has in common, like basic skills.

01:39:47.580 --> 01:39:58.200 Jan Bonhoeffer: there's a basic courage at you know, a basic yeah encouragement and a permission to care and to dare to care and to be harmful right so.

01:39:58.650 --> 01:40:06.360 Jan Bonhoeffer: there's a lot that all professions are benefiting from, and then there are some specifics were actually the culture.

01:40:07.110 --> 01:40:19.710 Jan Bonhoeffer: Of physicians surgeons nurses psychic psychologists is actually quite different, where we might learn from each other and where the educational approach might be a little bit different and then.

01:40:20.250 --> 01:40:34.350 Jan Bonhoeffer: Our course that heart based medicine is developing right now is really, if you like, trying to actually go one level deeper than fixing problems or teaching skills so that's also part of it.

01:40:35.040 --> 01:40:42.390 Jan Bonhoeffer: It has to be applicable tomorrow ATM we could actually ask a little bit of a deeper question, we could actually ask.

01:40:44.220 --> 01:40:48.330 Jan Bonhoeffer: Do we believe that love whoo don't talk about.

01:40:51.180 --> 01:40:58.890 Jan Bonhoeffer: Did I just say that right, we could actually say that that love as a human to human basic interaction.

01:40:59.970 --> 01:41:10.770 Jan Bonhoeffer: Is not the result of speech and action, it is not the result of speech in action, it is a underlying and German and if field.

01:41:11.580 --> 01:41:21.480 Jan Bonhoeffer: That we can tune into, and we can only make ourselves available to this if we are relaxed, if we take care of ourselves if we open our hearts if we, that is like.

01:41:21.930 --> 01:41:28.500 Jan Bonhoeffer: Becoming an antenna rather than a problem solved problem solver and if we explore this.

01:41:29.370 --> 01:41:40.800 Jan Bonhoeffer: I think we can make progress, and it seems to me, with all the amazing progresses and compassion and empathy and all the things that are now being explored and are part of a wave moving into healthcare.

01:41:41.370 --> 01:41:49.020 Jan Bonhoeffer: That we could actually learn way more I believe we're just scratching the surface, when it comes to kind of healthcare as a system.

01:41:49.650 --> 01:41:51.600 Jan Bonhoeffer: So we have to provide more insight there.

01:41:52.350 --> 01:41:52.740 Frank R. Harrison: And he.

01:41:52.800 --> 01:42:02.070 Frank R. Harrison: Had you Lee yeah I wanted to know also have you you're working on something in relation to spearheading the compassionate heels movement.

01:42:02.400 --> 01:42:04.920 Frank R. Harrison: Through podcast platform that you're developing correct.

01:42:05.760 --> 01:42:09.600 Lee Tomlinson: Well, we are mean we're gonna be talking to people who both have received it.

01:42:10.260 --> 01:42:18.360 Lee Tomlinson: Those who give it the challenges the impact all of those sorts of things we're also working on a feature length documentary series.

01:42:18.930 --> 01:42:31.140 Lee Tomlinson: to reveal what we call the heart, science and business of compassion to look at all elements of it and reveal its necessity, not just for healthcare, we are genetically designed.

01:42:32.190 --> 01:42:41.430 Lee Tomlinson: For compassion it's how we survived the age of the dinosaurs was by innately coming together in a community and when we're separated.

01:42:42.450 --> 01:42:46.470 Lee Tomlinson: Maybe at birth from human contact and human touch and maybe.

01:42:48.030 --> 01:43:02.970 Lee Tomlinson: They die, so it is absolutely necessary that each of us express that innate nature in order to be our healthiest happiest most successful self so at the end of all of.

01:43:05.190 --> 01:43:15.840 Lee Tomlinson: My love for a challenge, otherwise it's just talk and that's simply this, it has been proven that if you give people say I have compassion fatigue know you go.

01:43:17.310 --> 01:43:24.570 Lee Tomlinson: out, you may be burned out but it's not from giving compassion compassion is only.

01:43:25.500 --> 01:43:35.310 Lee Tomlinson: Positive giving love to your doctor is only positive, not just for the receiver with immense medical emotional and spiritual benefits.

01:43:36.060 --> 01:43:46.500 Lee Tomlinson: what's the giver so I offer to all of the people in my audience is what we call the compassion heels challenge and here's all it is.

01:43:47.100 --> 01:44:00.780 Lee Tomlinson: Is you agree to sign up and say I will promise that every day, I will give one small kind act doesn't have to be in the hospital doesn't have to be can be anywhere anytime and if you're burned out.

01:44:01.920 --> 01:44:04.260 Lee Tomlinson: give it to yourself, because you deserve it, you.

01:44:04.260 --> 01:44:13.980 Lee Tomlinson: need to be healthy, but to get them literally sign up it's available on my website just go and i'm not promoted him just saying take the challenge.

01:44:14.520 --> 01:44:32.340 Lee Tomlinson: Be more compassionate if each of us agreed to do one kind act today for a week for a month for a year, I promise you that the medical benefits of that for each of us would be enormous and the more burned out, we are.

01:44:33.480 --> 01:44:47.880 Lee Tomlinson: don't do it anyway, go to the dog shelter and walk dogs, you know given talent to a homeless person help that person with the door, whatever it is, you will get the benefits, even if the person receiving it doesn't acknowledge it so.

01:44:48.330 --> 01:44:49.470 Frank R. Harrison: We now need to take.

01:44:49.740 --> 01:44:56.190 Frank R. Harrison: Another final break I am so sorry but you're absolutely right during the break everyone should go out there and get a dog.

01:44:58.740 --> 01:45:10.890 Frank R. Harrison: compassionate animal support animal i'm kidding all right, ladies and gentlemen, we will be right back with you, right here on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook live, where we will be frank about patient centered healthcare, the future state to.

01:47:08.610 --> 01:47:22.680 Frank R. Harrison: Welcome back everybody to the final segment of this special to our share the care movement that we've collaborated on together today I know Lee you were just talking a lot about the future with your podcast but you wanted to.

01:47:23.790 --> 01:47:27.150 Frank R. Harrison: Talk about the compassion heels challenge again, please go on.

01:47:27.990 --> 01:47:39.360 Lee Tomlinson: What I want to do is whether you're in healthcare or not, the world needs more compassion, we need more connection we need more love between it rather than the fraction of the fighting and the violence between us.

01:47:40.170 --> 01:47:51.390 Lee Tomlinson: And that's a choice, it is a choice to be compassionate so i'd like to give our listeners, the opportunity to do that if you go to my website, when I go sell your information or anything else.

01:47:51.870 --> 01:48:13.680 Lee Tomlinson: just go to Li E Tomlinson to m Li n s O www Thomas calm and you'll see the compassion heels challenge, all we asked you to do is commit in writing to saying I will do one more kind act.

01:48:13.800 --> 01:48:14.310 Lee Tomlinson: A day.

01:48:14.670 --> 01:48:26.340 Lee Tomlinson: On purpose intentionally every day for seven days that's it will encourage you every day will remind you will poke you if you know if you haven't checked in.

01:48:26.910 --> 01:48:36.510 Lee Tomlinson: But at the end of it, I promise you those kinds of acts will have an a significant positive mental physical and emotional benefit for you.

01:48:37.050 --> 01:48:51.780 Lee Tomlinson: And we will give you as a reward for completing it a free copy of my compassion yields from self care and healthcare, a free copy for those seven kind back so we're going to bribe you.

01:48:52.890 --> 01:48:55.590 Lee Tomlinson: More kind of sounds like it's too much.

01:48:55.770 --> 01:49:06.630 Lee Tomlinson: No it's not no it's not you know there's a story about a guy who wrote a suicide note said if anybody smiles at me as i'm walking to the bridge to jump off I won't jump.

01:49:07.770 --> 01:49:11.490 Lee Tomlinson: guess what it found his body, the next day in the Bay.

01:49:12.240 --> 01:49:13.860 Lee Tomlinson: Nobody smiled at him.

01:49:14.760 --> 01:49:35.310 Lee Tomlinson: that's the power of compassion when it's not present and the power of having given that smile would have saved the LIFE that's how simple and small and powerful kind acts are we've got to demonstrate it before we can expect others to correct.

01:49:35.340 --> 01:49:39.000 Reatha Grey: I think, because of Colbert we've been so separated.

01:49:39.180 --> 01:49:40.800 Reatha Grey: yeah i'm not a hugger.

01:49:41.340 --> 01:49:43.980 Reatha Grey: And I I love Doug E.

01:49:49.770 --> 01:50:01.260 Phyllis Quinlan: Fresh frank i'd love to hear more from Dr yon about his program and perhaps how he thinks share the care could dovetail into this program to enhance current academic preparation.

01:50:01.530 --> 01:50:02.430 Sure absolutely.

01:50:04.380 --> 01:50:13.680 Jan Bonhoeffer: Thank you so um we're moving training to online, as we are in the times that we are, and because we're not for profit.

01:50:14.340 --> 01:50:24.030 Jan Bonhoeffer: It takes a little bit time it's time quality and money right, so it takes time to get high quality online, so the first course will be online probably February now next year.

01:50:24.750 --> 01:50:34.380 Jan Bonhoeffer: And this will be a six week course that is called essential skills course and it will include six modules they will look at.

01:50:37.260 --> 01:50:46.290 Jan Bonhoeffer: tendering minor spark it will be, it will include cultivating presence, it will include heart brain coherence.

01:50:46.740 --> 01:51:03.030 Jan Bonhoeffer: So dropping from the head to the heart, which i've discussed it will be, including deep listening the blessing, not as active reflective listening, but deep listening by a different where my listening actually changes the way the story is told because there's a sense of trust and.

01:51:04.530 --> 01:51:10.200 Jan Bonhoeffer: intuition so intuitive questioning listening to what is my first impression something i'm teaching.

01:51:10.560 --> 01:51:22.890 Jan Bonhoeffer: Every resident is I make a little note your first line in your note is not presenting complaint, please your first notice what is the first one or two seconds, when I enter the room.

01:51:23.370 --> 01:51:34.350 Jan Bonhoeffer: What hits me what gets me what touches me, it may be completely irrational an image that is that I don't understand, yet, but there's something happening, when I meet another person that can actually be.

01:51:35.310 --> 01:51:47.100 Jan Bonhoeffer: can be grasp and it's highly valuable information so self reflection, then i'll learning so can we actually turn from an attitude of arrogance that we've all shared and I already pleaded guilty for that.

01:51:48.000 --> 01:52:02.400 Jan Bonhoeffer: Can we actually turn to an attitude of learning can we actually take a beginner's mind, rather than the professor's mind right knowing everything about the patient and actually not even having asked so that's that's kind of a first course and.

01:52:02.850 --> 01:52:10.500 Jan Bonhoeffer: There will be a built a building up of that and that will go really deeper, this will call this the healers way probably.

01:52:11.220 --> 01:52:16.620 Jan Bonhoeffer: And this will be looking at integrity, it will be looking at sovereignty.

01:52:17.160 --> 01:52:26.100 Jan Bonhoeffer: And it will be looking at building a resonance and what does it actually take what does it actually mean to build resonance and how can we measure resonance between people in ourselves.

01:52:26.550 --> 01:52:35.490 Jan Bonhoeffer: And in in other people so it's not a whoo whoo kind of thing it's very scientific it's very down to earth very simple human things that we can do, and include.

01:52:36.210 --> 01:52:45.750 Jan Bonhoeffer: So this is what we hope to bring online, and I hope that, having worked in international health and public health and advising international you know health.

01:52:46.170 --> 01:52:55.470 Jan Bonhoeffer: bodies, I hope that we can actually bring this back at some point, you know we're talking 10 1520 years usually takes a generation for these things.

01:52:56.790 --> 01:52:59.250 Jan Bonhoeffer: To actually bring this into the university's make it.

01:52:59.250 --> 01:53:07.260 Jan Bonhoeffer: Part of the standard curriculum bring it into the World Health Organization right now on the website of the World Health Organization, the world love doesn't even exist, can you believe it.

01:53:07.830 --> 01:53:08.610 Phyllis Quinlan: Well Rita.

01:53:08.790 --> 01:53:14.640 Phyllis Quinlan: Rita said, you know we have to stay connected to our tribes, and I am sincerely hoping, because you.

01:53:15.120 --> 01:53:23.610 Phyllis Quinlan: Dr Leon and she'll are are the member of the same tribe, and I am sincerely hoping that you know this forum has introduced you to.

01:53:24.060 --> 01:53:35.280 Phyllis Quinlan: A new member of your tribe, so to speak, and that you can collaborate in some way, because you are you both have so much to offer and it couldn't be more timely.

01:53:36.180 --> 01:53:43.080 Phyllis Quinlan: What it is you have to offer, and I, you know I believe in top down organizations it starts with the leader.

01:53:43.380 --> 01:53:55.770 Phyllis Quinlan: And if we're going to do anything to improve the health care system it's going to have to be starting with professional caregivers and then having a different mindset around what caring actually is.

01:53:56.340 --> 01:54:03.120 Phyllis Quinlan: weaving in love i'm, all in all right into that into the curriculum and then.

01:54:03.570 --> 01:54:19.110 Phyllis Quinlan: You know, really having the compassionate nature of understanding what it's like to be sick and maybe what it's like to be a family caregiver once they leave the capable hands of the clinical practitioners and are now home and on their own, I think this is a synergy made to happen.

01:54:19.920 --> 01:54:20.880 Frank R. Harrison: Well, we are.

01:54:21.840 --> 01:54:27.840 Frank R. Harrison: yeah we have three minutes left, so I want to have some final wrap up talking points and plans for the future.

01:54:28.200 --> 01:54:35.490 Frank R. Harrison: First of all, I want to thank every one of you for coming back, and thank you sheila for coming in to tell your story about share the

01:54:36.090 --> 01:54:46.770 Frank R. Harrison: What I have already spoken to Dr yon about and I also hinted to you Lee when we had our conversation a couple days ago is i've already had discussions with nyu lingo and health.

01:54:47.220 --> 01:54:54.300 Frank R. Harrison: As well as the school of professional studies at New York university that is offering a new integrated hospitality.

01:54:55.200 --> 01:54:59.880 Frank R. Harrison: Healthcare certificate program where they would like to have courses and what both.

01:55:00.510 --> 01:55:08.010 Frank R. Harrison: Dare to care and share to care are offering these could be for both healthcare professionals, or people who want to get into the healthcare space.

01:55:08.640 --> 01:55:19.110 Frank R. Harrison: And so i've also talked to Hilton hotels, who is operating with me on a preliminary sponsorship agreement but are willing to actually get involved in training.

01:55:19.620 --> 01:55:28.110 Frank R. Harrison: Their hotel staff in the area of health care, especially since here in New York, they turned a lot of their brands into essential work or hotels.

01:55:28.410 --> 01:55:28.800 Frank R. Harrison: or even.

01:55:28.860 --> 01:55:37.080 Frank R. Harrison: homeless shelters for those that were displaced during the pandemic, and so this is something that I think would be an offline conversation for all of us to collaborate on.

01:55:37.590 --> 01:55:38.850 Frank R. Harrison: But I am hoping to.

01:55:38.850 --> 01:55:50.880 Frank R. Harrison: actually do more exposure for you lead to take your show again on the road help launch your podcast risa all the advocacy work that you do in fact you just recently did a little ad for Hilton.

01:55:51.210 --> 01:56:01.830 Frank R. Harrison: which I haven't fully seen yet, but I did get the link from you, thank you for that and then of course phyllis you and I have already spoken about how you will be coming more active on frank about health.

01:56:01.890 --> 01:56:03.090 Frank R. Harrison: In the coming weeks, see.

01:56:03.090 --> 01:56:03.690 Phyllis Quinlan: My honor.

01:56:04.230 --> 01:56:16.080 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, i'm looking forward to you being my my advocate co host and, as you know, as you all know, this show began as a way to advocate for epileptics but, after a disease like Kobe.

01:56:16.410 --> 01:56:23.700 Frank R. Harrison: And after the change that has occurred across the spectrum with caregivers family members healthcare workers medical students.

01:56:24.270 --> 01:56:33.150 Frank R. Harrison: This is just an expanded platform that needs a group, like the five or six of us today to continue moving forward with in the New Year.

01:56:33.480 --> 01:56:47.700 Frank R. Harrison: So, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being here for the last two hours stay tuned for planet pot, the low low get your dose of that crazy herb known as cannabis that 6pm right here on talk radio dot nyc.

01:56:48.210 --> 01:56:55.410 Frank R. Harrison: And thank you to Melanie on Facebook live today, for your questions, the question about leadership or management.

01:56:55.860 --> 01:57:07.410 Frank R. Harrison: They are not the same thing, because you need a good leader to be a good manager, but if you would like to ask me further questions you can reach me or any of our guests today at frank about health.

01:57:08.400 --> 01:57:22.680 Frank R. Harrison: At gmail COM, and please stay tuned for planet pack a low low at six and i'll be back next week with another episode of frank about health right here on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook life, thank you all for coming.

01:57:26.400 --> 01:57:28.560 Frank R. Harrison: My pleasure to see you all soon.

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