Frank About Health starts to explore one of the key legal problems affecting everyone when it comes to healthcare and that is fraud. Whether it is insurance related or health related the fraudulent scheme always centers on mode of payment for prescriptions, testing and treatment.
In this episode, Frank interviews Chris Reidel who is known in the industry as a "Fraud Fighter" as exemplified by his book, Blood Money.
Chris is one of the top medical whistleblowers ever — and he’s still at it. He owned and was CEO of a highly regarded Northern California lab testing company, Hunter Labs, until he was squeezed out of business by the predatory pricing scheme of the “Blood Brothers,” Quest and LabCorp.
Their quid pro quo scheme, which involved loss-leader pricing to doctors and clinics to gain to their exclusive testing business, and then overcharging Medicare and Medi-Cal 20 to 40-fold, has cost taxpayers billions of dollars — and forced higher quality, but smaller labs like Hunter, either to fold or be absorbed by them.
The Blood Brothers’ scheme is one of the most nefarious in the medical fraud world that Chris fought to expose.
Frank starts off his show by introducing this week’s guest, Chris Reidel. Chris, Frank explains, was able to expose a huge case of medical fraud within the state of California, and has recently also written a book talking about medical fraud, Blood Money. Chris talks about how he never thought he would become a fraud fighter. He launches into his history, talking about how he founded five health care companies in Silicon Valley and served as the chairman and CEO of all of these companies. When he started his fourth company, Hunter Labs, he describes, they built a beautiful laboratory with one hundred fifty employees and the best lab equipment money could buy. However, after two years, Chris talks about how one of his salesforce informed him that, if he couldn’t match the prices of other lab companies, they weren’t going to secure business. This gives Chris the opportunity to talk specifically about two lab companies, Quest and Labcorp, and the ways in which they operate and run the lab industry.
Following the break, Frank and Chris talk more about Chris’ book Blood Money. In the process of creating his book, Chris needed to research fraud voraciously. And, according to Chris, if we eliminated medical fraud successfully, our medical costs would decrease by twenty-five percent. Chris discusses some reasons he had behind writing his book. Explaining, Chris says he wanted people to experience the legalling thrilling aspect of the book. Secondly, he wanted people to understand how little the Department of Justice cares about fraud. Chris talks about settlements he lost before his eventual win in California. This prompts Frank to ask Chris if his win in California gave him any kind of leverage. Chris answers that unfortunately, no, his win did not give him that much leverage for winning settlements and judgements in other states.
Frank spends some time explaining how he himself has been the victim of personal fraud in the medical field, leading him to talk about how his insurance was so expensive, because of his epilepsy, that he reached a point where he could no longer afford his insurance. Afterwards, Frank and Chris shift back to talking about institutional fraud. Specifically, Chris and Frank discuss how people can be more vigilant about institutional fraud in the medical field. They also discuss price gouging within the pharmaceutical industry and whether or not it falls into a type of fraudulent activity. Moving onto a new topic, Chris and Frank talk about the business Frank is a consultant for, a company devoted to cardiovascular disease management. Today, Frank explains, there is so much more medical technology to understand the causes of heart disease and to also treat heart disease.
Wrapping up the second break, Frank gives a brief summary of the past forty-five minutes. Frank asks Chris what kind of advice he would give someone dealing with suspected medical fraud themselves. Chris starts off his answer by saying he does not consider himself a professional fraud fighter because he is not in this for the money. However, he suggests that, if you think you have come across fraud, to contact him. If you’re outraged, like he is, he says, about the lack of serious prosecutions by the Department of Justice, to contact your congressman or your state representatives or attorney general’s office. As they finish the show, Frank lets us know that, for those who are interested, they can email Frank and he can get them in contact with Chris.
00:05:25.620 --> 00:05:26.760 Frank R. Harrison: Welcome everybody.
00:05:26.790 --> 00:05:32.100 Frank R. Harrison: To our first episode of what I dubbed the new season of frank about health.
00:05:32.790 --> 00:05:41.580 Frank R. Harrison: If you had a chance to hear in the past, our talk radio dot nyc had aired my compilation show that I did with my dear friend Danielle swanson.
00:05:41.850 --> 00:05:51.090 Frank R. Harrison: Highlighting the top 10 episodes that we had done to discuss the major health issues that plague us today, in other words, I was trying to just educate.
00:05:51.660 --> 00:06:05.580 Frank R. Harrison: My listeners out there by now viewers thanks to Facebook live on the various things that Al most of us coven 19 epilepsy cancer cardiac care where to get the best affordable medications The list goes on.
00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:17.640 Frank R. Harrison: But today I begin a new stage in the development of this show and that's when I begin to bring about the legal and financial aspects of the health care system.
00:06:18.570 --> 00:06:29.400 Frank R. Harrison: My guest today, Mr Chris right Dell, is a very influential individual, as you will soon here and how he was able, as a CEO of his own laboratory company.
00:06:29.880 --> 00:06:35.850 Frank R. Harrison: to expose a severe case of medical fraud with the medicaid system in the state of California.
00:06:36.660 --> 00:06:51.960 Frank R. Harrison: He is the author of his book, which we will discuss on this show blood money, which talks about two major laboratories that most of us use when we go get our annual physical quest labs and also, I think the other one is lab court.
00:06:52.560 --> 00:07:01.770 Frank R. Harrison: And the thing is that, while running his own lab company hunter labs he was seeing the transparency of how unethical.
00:07:02.520 --> 00:07:22.200 Frank R. Harrison: Biological systems which are necessary for finding out are a one C scores or liver count, whether or not, God forbid, you have HIV your PSA numbers, the list cholesterol, the whole thing is that people the taxpayer was being the fraud, it was being skimmed off the top in the name of profit.
00:07:23.250 --> 00:07:30.780 Frank R. Harrison: i'm going to let Chris when I further announce him and he introduces the book really go into the nuts and bolts it's an amazing story.
00:07:31.140 --> 00:07:38.490 Frank R. Harrison: And I will always been raised on the idea that insurance and other healthcare modes of payment have been state regulated.
00:07:38.880 --> 00:07:46.170 Frank R. Harrison: At least that's what i've always understood, but you'll learn you'll soon learn that it crosses states and in ways that we just don't see.
00:07:46.470 --> 00:07:55.770 Frank R. Harrison: So this is why I find that this episode is going to be very insightful and very inspirational because it's going to help to keep with the motto of the network, which is to empower.
00:07:56.250 --> 00:08:06.060 Frank R. Harrison: The listeners out there to try to find out when you feel or are having the sense that you're being defrauded when you're trying to get good quality care.
00:08:06.690 --> 00:08:14.400 Frank R. Harrison: So, Chris first of all thank you for being on this, what I what i'm already dubbing this special episode of frank about health it's the first time.
00:08:14.790 --> 00:08:27.840 Frank R. Harrison: i'm actually going from the systemic point of view, and I wanted you to first tell me a little bit about how you got started in this business before you found your new career, by default, due to your circumstances.
00:08:32.280 --> 00:08:32.880 unmute.
00:08:36.900 --> 00:08:37.380 Frank R. Harrison: Okay.
00:08:37.710 --> 00:08:38.820 Chris Riedel: Brian can you hear me now.
00:08:38.940 --> 00:08:39.690 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, I can.
00:08:40.170 --> 00:08:42.900 Chris Riedel: it's it's very nice to be here with you today.
00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:44.100 Frank R. Harrison: Thank you, let me.
00:08:44.550 --> 00:09:04.230 Chris Riedel: I never thought I would become the fraud fighter I had founded five healthcare companies in Silicon Valley and served as the Chairman and CEO of all and when I started my fourth company hunter labs named after my youngest son hunter.
00:09:05.400 --> 00:09:07.590 Chris Riedel: Five at the time and is now six foot three.
00:09:11.100 --> 00:09:22.890 Chris Riedel: We built a beautiful laboratory we had the best equipment money can buy we had 150 employees and we service initially throughout northern California, but after two years.
00:09:23.940 --> 00:09:34.860 Chris Riedel: My salesforce came to me and said, Chris, these are the prices westies charging positions or the smallest part of their business, which is what they build directly to positions.
00:09:36.330 --> 00:09:40.080 Chris Riedel: And unless we match these prices we're not going to secure your business.
00:09:41.130 --> 00:09:44.190 Chris Riedel: And I immediately noticed that many of them were below cost.
00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:46.260 Frank R. Harrison: well.
00:09:46.560 --> 00:09:47.460 Chris Riedel: I thought well.
00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:55.080 Chris Riedel: This was the business model of the two blood brothers so name my Wall Street hamlet's but.
00:09:56.400 --> 00:10:09.750 Chris Riedel: What they would do is they would basically give these tests away for loss leaders in order to pull through the medicare insurance medicaid business was very problem.
00:10:10.410 --> 00:10:17.100 Chris Riedel: They lose money on the pricing of the doctors and they'd make a lot of profit, on the other business from the doctor.
00:10:17.760 --> 00:10:29.790 Chris Riedel: doctor, they have a busy office they don't want to have to thank God to send this person with this lab is this lab so you can hook them with a cheap price for portion of their business you're going to get at all.
00:10:31.020 --> 00:10:40.590 Chris Riedel: And so I said well either call my regulatory Council and see if I try to compete with these prices which I didn't think I could what I have legal liability.
00:10:41.970 --> 00:10:50.010 Chris Riedel: Is the answer was oh yeah first of all, these are both Federal and State kickbacks secondly in California.
00:10:51.150 --> 00:11:02.880 Chris Riedel: We have what's called a lowest charge more the medicaid program serving the most intelligent people who stayed isn't tied by law to the cheapest price these lads charged anybody.
00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:17.730 Chris Riedel: And they were often marking these tests up 20 to 40 full when they build the medicaid program you know, a direct violation of law it's open it shot that's what they were doing.
00:11:18.870 --> 00:11:23.040 Chris Riedel: And so I came to the closure I had really only had three choices.
00:11:24.330 --> 00:11:35.940 Chris Riedel: One not only violate Federal and State law and i'm going to close the lab lay off 150 people right off most of our net worth and.
00:11:37.560 --> 00:11:45.000 Chris Riedel: What go out of business free try to do something to stop these frauds in your legal business model.
00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.740 Chris Riedel: And after a lot of thought and research that's my choice.
00:11:50.790 --> 00:11:53.430 Chris Riedel: And the only way to do that was to become a whistleblower.
00:11:54.660 --> 00:12:09.750 Frank R. Harrison: But, in what way, would you become a whistleblower would it be, with the support of an attorney and in some kind of organized setup with your son perhaps or other individuals that you already working with at hunter labs.
00:12:10.470 --> 00:12:33.780 Chris Riedel: know I do this on my own, and I found a very fortunate to find a very good law firm near me that had done some key can work in the whistleblower work he stands a French term for on behalf of the King and that's how the whistleblower statues sometimes referred to.
00:12:35.610 --> 00:12:45.660 Chris Riedel: and Neil McCarthy the Attorney there that I was i've been working with it just settle the pharmaceutical case for a lot of money, I want to him and.
00:12:46.470 --> 00:12:57.630 Chris Riedel: After you know grilling me and grilling me and grilling the end demanding I go out and get more evidence and more evidence and finally said okay we're convinced.
00:12:58.260 --> 00:13:09.630 Chris Riedel: And they file a whistleblower lawsuit in this case, it was in the state of California right all of these muscle or losses are immediately sealed by a judge, nobody can see.
00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:23.490 Chris Riedel: And the purpose of that is so that the government attorneys can investigate the planes and potential crimes, without the bad boy companies, knowing what they're looking at.
00:13:25.230 --> 00:13:28.080 Chris Riedel: And in the state of California, we were very fortunate that.
00:13:29.670 --> 00:13:35.400 Chris Riedel: We were assigned to an assistant attorney general call us up one day and completely shocked us he says.
00:13:35.880 --> 00:13:42.240 Chris Riedel: I like this case i'm going to take it over we're going to prosecute it but here's how we're going to do it we're going to work together.
00:13:42.990 --> 00:13:57.480 Chris Riedel: You and your lawyers are going to look at all the documents right all the discovery requests do all the legal motions i'm going to buy a supercomputer and build damage claim on a patient pipe patient claim.
00:13:58.500 --> 00:13:59.280 Chris Riedel: So it's insanely.
00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:05.310 Chris Riedel: easy and we were very close together for three years and finally.
00:14:06.750 --> 00:14:09.840 Chris Riedel: It was settled actually four years and.
00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:19.110 Chris Riedel: settlement was for the most money ever for stateless of losses, it was for about $300 million.
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:36.780 Frank R. Harrison: So would that 300 million award was given to the individual patients that were working with those blood brother laboratories, or was it to the institution's themselves that were involved as intermediary.
00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:45.360 Chris Riedel: In the scheme neither went to state of California and they parceled it out between the Attorney general's office.
00:14:45.750 --> 00:14:55.380 Chris Riedel: And the Department of Health and human services, but a key feature of the whistle broke floor program and, by the way, that law was passed during the civil war.
00:14:55.830 --> 00:15:06.300 Chris Riedel: To try and stop fraud on the Union army, they were getting bullets that weren't wouldn't fire lane horses and Lincoln decided he had to do something to try and stop this.
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:15.270 Chris Riedel: He wanted to have a Public Private Partnership where citizens could come forward with evidence of crimes or fraud.
00:15:15.870 --> 00:15:36.720 Chris Riedel: and work with the government and to induce people to take the substantial risks to do this they award a whistleblower between 15 and 25% of all the money's received hmm so it can be, and you read about times when it's very lucrative monster very rare.
00:15:37.230 --> 00:15:43.320 Chris Riedel: The likelihood of success on a substantial scale is less than the likelihood of getting it right.
00:15:45.030 --> 00:15:45.300 Frank R. Harrison: Now.
00:15:45.930 --> 00:15:54.120 Frank R. Harrison: Based on the timeframe in which this occurred, I think I know the answer to the question, but I wanted you to kind of verify that, who was the Attorney General on the case.
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:56.310 Chris Riedel: it's that was Jerry Brown.
00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:59.070 Chris Riedel: going to become the governor and.
00:15:59.310 --> 00:16:08.640 Chris Riedel: It was settled, he was governor and Camilla Harris was the Attorney General at that point and she's the one that authorized so.
00:16:09.450 --> 00:16:28.440 Frank R. Harrison: it's almost as if she was already on her mission to be who she is today our nation's Vice President, but she was really concerned about the individuals that had been abused by the system and making sure that this came to light as a model to really let the healthcare.
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:37.680 Frank R. Harrison: The individuals, creating the fraud be put on notice that they can't get away with this for too long, or too much more.
00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:58.200 Chris Riedel: It has a journey that's exactly right and we assumed because of this great success we had in California, that this would follow us in other cases, and an assistant Attorney General asked us to file the same lawsuit against the same defendants, with the same facts, the innate other states.
00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:02.910 Chris Riedel: amazing or were we surprised to find out the different reception, we got.
00:17:04.770 --> 00:17:11.430 Frank R. Harrison: That already made you an influencer even even before the birth of zoom and they think Facebook and stuff like that.
00:17:12.540 --> 00:17:21.780 Frank R. Harrison: Either way, we are about to come to a break, but I want the listeners, to know that in the next segment of this very special episode of frank about health.
00:17:22.110 --> 00:17:31.230 Frank R. Harrison: we're going to see the book that was the impetus, based on this whole circumstance that Chris just outline for us it is actually.
00:17:31.530 --> 00:17:39.990 Frank R. Harrison: This episode is actually a lesson for all of us so we'll continue to educate all of you here at frank about health on talk radio dot nyc.
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:52.050 Frank R. Harrison: And for the viewers out there on Facebook live i'm frank are Harrison, with my special guest today, Chris right Dell, we will be back in just a few minutes to talk more about his book blood money stay tuned.
00:20:07.020 --> 00:20:19.290 Frank R. Harrison: hey everybody welcome back to this episode of frank about health i'm here with my guest Chris right del, who is the author of a very telling book blood money you could show the example here i'd like.
00:20:19.290 --> 00:20:19.620 Chris Riedel: to know.
00:20:23.040 --> 00:20:29.040 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly, and I can see there's a quote right there from our Vice President, who was then Senator California.
00:20:29.820 --> 00:20:40.110 Frank R. Harrison: Talking about how empowering that book is it's available on Amazon COM everybody can buy it right now, if they choose to it's it's a very exciting and very telling.
00:20:40.470 --> 00:20:56.130 Frank R. Harrison: and very inspirational from the few chapters that I had a chance to read so basically Chris I have to ask you this must have been the story you just mentioned in the last 15 minutes must have been your narrative that allowed you to put this pen to paper correct.
00:20:56.910 --> 00:21:09.510 Chris Riedel: On actually route, I went on to file a whole bunch of fraud losses there's so much fraud of his country and in health care it's Nancy.
00:21:10.050 --> 00:21:10.410 Frank R. Harrison: and
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:31.770 Chris Riedel: The FBI estimates that one out of every $4 spent on healthcare is stolen my fraudsters one individually, for now, your listeners and I in you, if we could eliminate the fraud our health care costs would go down 25% I mean it's it's amazing and.
00:21:33.210 --> 00:21:38.220 Chris Riedel: I wanted, I wanted to write the book for three reasons first is.
00:21:39.570 --> 00:21:43.050 Chris Riedel: I wrote it as a legal roller.
00:21:44.070 --> 00:22:03.270 Chris Riedel: And I wanted people to experience the journey, the rest, the court decisions that went our way the ones that didn't go our way how our life was almost ruined, we were two weeks away from losing our home losing our business when we finally had this big settlement in California.
00:22:04.410 --> 00:22:06.630 Chris Riedel: And secondly.
00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:14.250 Chris Riedel: I wanted people to understand that the Department of Justice.
00:22:15.330 --> 00:22:20.610 Chris Riedel: They can misnamed they are not serious about fraud.
00:22:21.690 --> 00:22:27.450 Chris Riedel: Ray probably proclaim last year they collected $1.3 billion for 2.3 billion.
00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:44.340 Chris Riedel: that's less than 1% of the FBI is fraud estimate now Mike people will draw their own conclusions when they see how we were treated by other state attorney general's and by the Department of Justice.
00:22:45.030 --> 00:22:57.750 Frank R. Harrison: So you mentioned eight other states where there's anything particular about those eight states that showed a commonality and what happened in California population, the type of illnesses.
00:22:58.350 --> 00:23:13.530 Chris Riedel: or no frauds and the officers were all saying what was different is how we retreated, for example, we filed in 2008 in New York, which has a lowest charge statute.
00:23:14.250 --> 00:23:33.450 Chris Riedel: And in 2010 we got a call from the Attorney general's Office say well these labs are clearly wiling law, we do have low charge law, but we think in the Attorney general's office it's bad public policy so we're going to dismiss it with prejudice, which means you can't refile it.
00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:45.960 Chris Riedel: But the story gets even better after our California settlement in 2011 we got a call from somebody else in the Attorney general's office in quote said when do we get our money.
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:49.710 Frank R. Harrison: Well, and that was within new yorker.
00:23:49.770 --> 00:23:50.610 Chris Riedel: One of the other day.
00:23:50.910 --> 00:24:03.000 Chris Riedel: That was within New York in another state of Michigan the Attorney General spent four years investigating and finally said Okay, we like it and we unsealed the lawsuit.
00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:16.740 Chris Riedel: sermon on independence and the judge immediately formed hearing and to our shock, he said, a trial date for three weeks mm hmm and it just never happens.
00:24:17.310 --> 00:24:27.300 Chris Riedel: So the defendants immediately filed summary judgment motion that's where they're saying is losses defective judge not worth the paper it's written on thrown out.
00:24:27.930 --> 00:24:35.160 Chris Riedel: To me, and we thought, well, we have these guys's bait you know we're not worried about that we get to the courtroom.
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:52.200 Chris Riedel: Who a judge looks at the Michigan Attorney General who is there, but not the actual AG, but system AG, it says, this is the oldest case on my docket if you can't get it to me in less than four years i'm not gonna waste my time.
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:55.800 Frank R. Harrison: Case dismissed amazing.
00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:57.090 Chris Riedel: it's truly amazing.
00:24:58.020 --> 00:25:06.450 Frank R. Harrison: So what was your win in the state of California kind of your leverage to be able to further develop winning judgments and these other states.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:16.470 Chris Riedel: Well, it should appear, but it did not work out that way, we got some relatively inexpensive settlements, but nothing like.
00:25:16.950 --> 00:25:27.090 Chris Riedel: What we should have, for example in Georgia, this is one that really galls my attorneys they understood they kept telling us, they were going to intervene and take it over and prosecute.
00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:41.430 Chris Riedel: And after three years, we had a call say well we're not interview, which means we were actually delighted that, if the government chooses not to prosecuted, then we're free to prosecute so we're happy.
00:25:41.850 --> 00:25:44.400 Chris Riedel: We got really good lawyers, we start to prosecute it.
00:25:44.670 --> 00:26:06.450 Chris Riedel: And, of course, after it was unsealed independence, while they're saying stop motion motions to dismiss and it was based on we gave them no evidence of how much was actually paid an invoice by invoice claim so that Georgia and the Attorney General had that information in space.
00:26:07.620 --> 00:26:09.330 Chris Riedel: And she refused to give it to us.
00:26:10.800 --> 00:26:20.610 Chris Riedel: don't tell her if you don't give us this this is going to be thrown out and your state is going to lose 10s of millions of dollars and the broad will continue.
00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:27.360 Chris Riedel: She wouldn't budge and the judge did exactly what we told her to do He threw it out.
00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:38.100 Frank R. Harrison: Okay, so in that regard, there would be what a 5050 ratio of wins two losses or would you say you one more times than the others.
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:42.180 Chris Riedel: We actually secure smaller judgment.
00:26:43.260 --> 00:26:51.870 Chris Riedel: In Albany New York, you know you can consider it a win I don't consider to win because the practice continues brand.
00:26:53.100 --> 00:27:07.710 Chris Riedel: And then the best of all, as Florida Florida like California and work with us three years they their whole whistleblower office was dedicated full time to this, and so lack for INQUEST full metal stuff.
00:27:09.060 --> 00:27:09.630 wow.
00:27:10.860 --> 00:27:22.110 Chris Riedel: rick scott's former person lawyer was a lobbyist for lab core and he convinced a 26 year old freshman legislator to author of bill.
00:27:23.190 --> 00:27:26.880 Chris Riedel: Eliminating the lowest charge and making it retroactive.
00:27:28.080 --> 00:27:41.460 Chris Riedel: Basically, getting their plants off the hook, and so this is hysterical story during the hearing for this in the Assembly there the Attorney General herself Pam bondi hit out in the bathroom.
00:27:42.030 --> 00:27:55.410 Chris Riedel: Until the hearing was underway it so she strokes in as the hero is already going on, and you know she'd never been in any of these like administrative or Assembly meetings, and so the chairman said oh.
00:27:56.280 --> 00:28:01.920 Chris Riedel: This is Attorney General would you like to address you know our Members, the time would.
00:28:02.760 --> 00:28:15.210 Chris Riedel: She said, this is the most fun ethical thing I have ever seen, we have active litigation here and it's going to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars that have been stolen.
00:28:15.630 --> 00:28:24.600 Chris Riedel: From Florida taxpayers this isn't the place to settle it should be settled in the courtroom and so Fortunately they tabled the amendment.
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.170 Chris Riedel: But this this lobbyist wasn't done.
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:35.970 Chris Riedel: Next, he goes to rick Scott, the governor the guy who's not Chairman of the Republican national committee and.
00:28:36.990 --> 00:28:42.510 Chris Riedel: rick Scott sent some type of or memorandum to the Department of Health and Florida.
00:28:43.590 --> 00:28:55.140 Chris Riedel: forcing them to testify that they didn't know about the law and it had never been enforced, and it would be unfair to the defendants to enforce it now.
00:28:56.580 --> 00:28:58.590 Chris Riedel: The pretty general's office was just.
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:10.860 Frank R. Harrison: Incredible So then, would you say it's more politically motivated that determines whether or not the judgment wins at the massive level that it did in California.
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:24.150 Frank R. Harrison: Or is it just in terms of where the government may or may not be too much involved in allowing the scheme in some ways to be a revenue driver for the state is that that's what it seems to me.
00:29:24.150 --> 00:29:36.510 Chris Riedel: Surely what's your state representative or attorney general's office wouldn't want to reduce fraud and reduce their expenditures by 10s or hundreds of millions of dollars makes no sense.
00:29:37.080 --> 00:29:46.740 Chris Riedel: But other than Georgia and Florida there weren't really political things what what I what I found over the last 15 years like in California.
00:29:48.600 --> 00:30:00.990 Chris Riedel: When attorney general's offices work with you, they get free Labor they're getting very good attorneys and you know they have to approve and sign everything when that happens things went very well.
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:01.950 Chris Riedel: Right it.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:13.770 Chris Riedel: didn't happen and the Attorney General and particularly the federal Department of Justice they don't like to work with whistleblowers when they say thank you very much we'll take it from here, not much happens.
00:30:14.790 --> 00:30:32.040 Frank R. Harrison: Incredible so that your book itself, which I guess it's still a best seller on Amazon is that being served to the people who purchase your book as an educational tool or as a tool to help people try to win other kinds of relative civil suits in the area of health care.
00:30:32.970 --> 00:30:46.620 Chris Riedel: it's for several reasons, one of whistleblowers lives will never be the same, which you find many of them end up bankrupt divorced unemployable and.
00:30:47.250 --> 00:30:55.680 Chris Riedel: You know it's what happens to them is awful when the defendants find out who filed a lawsuit and they will they do everything they can to destroy.
00:30:56.550 --> 00:31:16.890 Chris Riedel: In the book are true stories of attempted murder I faced extortion, money laundering, I mean really bad things one whistleblower with his young family drove up to his house one evening after dinner and found their dog nailed to the front door and written the dogs blood.
00:31:19.470 --> 00:31:20.220 Frank R. Harrison: wow we.
00:31:20.490 --> 00:31:21.000 Chris Riedel: love you.
00:31:21.030 --> 00:31:23.730 Frank R. Harrison: See you've been protected, I can see that.
00:31:25.290 --> 00:31:33.660 Chris Riedel: Well, no request and laugh or attacked we almost lost our business, it was that said two weeks away from personal financial ruin.
00:31:35.250 --> 00:31:45.210 Chris Riedel: But there are things whistleblowers can do to protect themselves and there's a chapter rules for whistleblowers I wanted anybody thinking of it.
00:31:45.840 --> 00:32:07.920 Chris Riedel: To have a better understanding of these are the things I really ought to do and and I also have concluded the book with a summary of do jay's performance in stopping fraud and then nine simple things they can do very simple that would change their fight from using squirt guns to tax.
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:23.010 Frank R. Harrison: So you heard it right there everybody, this is a book that I believe is necessary for everybody on both sides of the whole medical fraud issue that continues to go on, and I believe all 50 states but.
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:31.530 Frank R. Harrison: That being said, if you are either a whistleblower in disguise let's just say an educated healthcare advocate.
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:42.720 Frank R. Harrison: or a patient who is subjugated or subjected to fraud, from your doctor or your insurance company, this is a must have, and I would say, go to amazon.com right now.
00:32:42.990 --> 00:32:51.510 Frank R. Harrison: and buy your copy, we are about to take another break but, just like some of the stories that you've just shared about the other states, you were involved in.
00:32:51.930 --> 00:33:05.490 Frank R. Harrison: I want you to do have a discussion in the third section about how people can really learn from you, almost like a model that will empower people to be able to be at least in their small corner of the world.
00:33:05.910 --> 00:33:21.750 Frank R. Harrison: The best advocate for their health care so everybody, this is frank are Harrison and my special guest Chris right del we're being frank about medical fraud on this episode here on talk radio dot nyc and on Facebook live, we will be back in a few.
00:35:51.510 --> 00:35:57.210 Frank R. Harrison: Everybody welcome back this is section three of this episode of frank about health, but my guest Chris right del.
00:35:57.510 --> 00:36:07.140 Frank R. Harrison: We just had a moment to discuss his book blood money which is on email@example.com and we were also talking with Chris about examples of cases of medical fraud, not just.
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:14.220 Frank R. Harrison: In the state of California, where the book is pretty much founded on but also in other states like here in New York in Georgia.
00:36:14.520 --> 00:36:23.130 Frank R. Harrison: As well as others that I gather we're going to learn more about now, as I mentioned to you, Chris this network goes by the mantra of uplift educate and empower.
00:36:23.520 --> 00:36:30.750 Frank R. Harrison: And when reading your book, I was certainly educated and what i've already had known had been going on, especially during times like co bit.
00:36:31.080 --> 00:36:42.660 Frank R. Harrison: But at the same time, I think I mentioned to you that I have a history of epilepsy, and I was noticing a different type of fraud going on, particularly with my insurance company, where I was considered a risky.
00:36:43.020 --> 00:36:49.830 Frank R. Harrison: candidate for healthcare where my premiums were like bread from 200 a month to 3000 a month, making it.
00:36:50.190 --> 00:36:59.760 Frank R. Harrison: Being costed out, in other words not able to afford my insurance anymore, and having to search for alternative means of maintaining a neurological issue.
00:37:00.090 --> 00:37:07.620 Frank R. Harrison: That I pretty much have for the rest of my life, but that in itself is an example of personal fraud versus I guess.
00:37:08.070 --> 00:37:16.410 Frank R. Harrison: You know institutional fraud, which is what your book is about so I wanted you to take this time to explain to the listeners and viewers out there, what.
00:37:16.890 --> 00:37:28.470 Frank R. Harrison: And how to empower people and how dealing with the fraud that they experience what would you say, are some of the major lessons you've learned in actually becoming a whistleblower or even.
00:37:29.040 --> 00:37:39.000 Frank R. Harrison: To those people out there that continued to be victims in the fractured system, it is what would you share with people out there, as to how they can be more alert and more vigilant.
00:37:39.450 --> 00:37:46.110 Chris Riedel: Yes, I get calls from people who think they found a serious fraud.
00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:57.840 Chris Riedel: And you know they want to talk to me about it and I encourage people to call me, and in fact we filed many lawsuits over the last few years where.
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:09.180 Chris Riedel: People have found something they don't know what to do, they're afraid of the whole process, so I walk them through the whole thing, and if they choose to go forward, then we filed a lawsuit the other.
00:38:10.230 --> 00:38:27.270 Chris Riedel: As for individuals and, probably, you may suffer, I would say it's a pain, but you have to learn to look at the explanation of benefits the insurance company sends you every time they pay or deny.
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:38.730 Chris Riedel: A bill look at how much they paid how much they say your obligation is for deductible and a copay and, if you think that's excessive.
00:38:39.390 --> 00:38:57.060 Chris Riedel: then get on the phone with the insurance company and, in particular, if they deny a service and they want you to pay the whole thing yet on the phone and our experience, probably half of the time when people take the trouble to call and question they just write it off.
00:38:58.620 --> 00:38:59.310 Frank R. Harrison: On credit on.
00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:03.660 Chris Riedel: Be vigilant with your own yo bs or explanation.
00:39:05.130 --> 00:39:15.240 Frank R. Harrison: Well i'm sure you must have heard, even in your time of renting of running hunter labs about all the ongoing price gouging that goes on the pharmaceutical industry.
00:39:15.630 --> 00:39:15.900 Now.
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:27.030 Frank R. Harrison: I know the United States is notorious for making prices on generic or even you know patented medications for anything diabetes, cancer.
00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:39.630 Frank R. Harrison: epilepsy so forth, and so on, I always thought that, from a legitimate standpoint that was because the pet put a value on the medication, but it sounds like to me that as a as an industry.
00:39:40.020 --> 00:39:47.520 Frank R. Harrison: I would you classify that as fraudulent activity at the same time, or is that more just looking at healthcare is a commodity.
00:39:48.120 --> 00:39:52.350 Chris Riedel: Where we put it this way, I heard assistant us.
00:39:53.430 --> 00:40:08.730 Chris Riedel: At the taxpayers against fraud Conference a few years ago refer to Merck probably, if not the largest health company in the world, one of the largest as quote organized crime masquerading as a pharmaceutical company.
00:40:10.110 --> 00:40:20.880 Chris Riedel: There is so much fraud in the pharmaceutical industry there, the government is now focusing on it it's what attracted me when Neil McCarthy got a settlement against all these companies.
00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:27.720 Chris Riedel: When what they called average wholesale price they were manipulating it and the government was getting suckered.
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:43.410 Frank R. Harrison: Incredible incredible now, what about cardiac care, I think you mentioned to me that you had worked or are working with a cardiac care company that is both I guess trying to launch its new model of.
00:40:43.830 --> 00:40:54.210 Frank R. Harrison: Qualitative health care for those suffering cardiac problems against this model that exists in the fraudulent spectrum, can you be more share more about that.
00:40:54.420 --> 00:40:58.890 Chris Riedel: Sure i'm it's not my company i'm a consultant to this company.
00:41:00.090 --> 00:41:03.990 Chris Riedel: But it's a cardiovascular disease management Program.
00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:17.790 Chris Riedel: heart disease has been the number one killer around the world forever, it seems, but today, there are newer diagnostic tests to identify the specific cause of a risk.
00:41:18.270 --> 00:41:26.760 Chris Riedel: and newer treatments to treat this specific cause and virtually everybody can eliminate having heart disease.
00:41:27.390 --> 00:41:34.320 Chris Riedel: Or, many people can reversed, once they have it, so you don't have to get the number one killer.
00:41:34.950 --> 00:41:45.450 Chris Riedel: And what this company does is you go online you sign up for it, and then they send you a kid to have your blood drawn actually they they sell it for bottom right to your cell phone.
00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:50.970 Chris Riedel: Eight the blood they send it in, and then you set up a zoom call with a physician.
00:41:51.510 --> 00:42:02.190 Chris Riedel: who walks you through what your specific risks are and the treatment plan designed by we have an algorithm where we went to a world class cardiologist.
00:42:02.490 --> 00:42:20.820 Chris Riedel: And we said, given all this information about the patient in these tests and the risks that we've calculated how would you treat and he wrote an algorithm, which is very specific such that primary care physicians can now treat with the expertise of a world class cardiology that neat.
00:42:21.240 --> 00:42:22.560 Frank R. Harrison: yeah amazing.
00:42:22.890 --> 00:42:25.440 Chris Riedel: yeah so you're going to get the right treatment.
00:42:27.120 --> 00:42:35.730 Chris Riedel: And you know, sometimes status work sometimes they don't sometimes diet works, sometimes it doesn't it doesn't why bother going on a diet.
00:42:37.230 --> 00:42:50.490 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly now I was the impetus for this company at all related to all the schemes that are out there, including the ones that you had been able to attack in the legal system, or is it just.
00:42:51.030 --> 00:42:58.470 Frank R. Harrison: looking at ways of being able to reduce even using your existing insurance or other federal programs that are helping you pay for your care.
00:42:58.950 --> 00:43:09.330 Chris Riedel: break the answers both I have found is a cardiac disease lynchburg companies, my last business and there were about six companies that came out when I did.
00:43:10.080 --> 00:43:11.250 Chris Riedel: All the others.
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:18.360 Chris Riedel: Basically bribed physicians they handed them envelopes, full of cash every time they ordered a panel.
00:43:18.930 --> 00:43:24.690 Chris Riedel: And they never build patients copay or deductible it's not from a patient's point of view that's fantastic.
00:43:25.140 --> 00:43:34.560 Chris Riedel: But from the government and insurance carriers point of view, these were clearly bribes to get people to order the doctor store have these huge panels and test.
00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:51.930 Chris Riedel: which often costs medicare three to $4,000 each so government when you know I filed whistleblower lawsuits against them, as did a few other people and there's only one way they all went out of business and the one that's left is you know.
00:43:53.550 --> 00:43:53.970 Chris Riedel: So.
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:55.050 Chris Riedel: Our model, though.
00:43:56.850 --> 00:43:59.610 Chris Riedel: Is is direct to the consumer.
00:44:00.810 --> 00:44:02.370 Chris Riedel: So there's no room for.
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:12.690 Frank R. Harrison: amazing so where did hunter labs eventually evolve, or is it still in operation on a smaller scale.
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:17.580 Chris Riedel: No, we were forced to sell it or close the doors so we sold it to a larger laboratory.
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:30.030 Frank R. Harrison: Oh okay all right, so in the whole market of laboratories, I mean, I know that when I do my annual lab corp draws my blood every every year, you know, to get all of my metrics on my metabolism and.
00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:41.580 Frank R. Harrison: and the list goes on How have they been able to sustain themselves, given their public history of fraudulent medicare pricing and medicaid pricing rather.
00:44:42.540 --> 00:44:48.150 Chris Riedel: i've learned about too big to jail and too big to fail.
00:44:50.010 --> 00:44:50.730 Chris Riedel: i'm blessed.
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:52.260 Chris Riedel: As had 10.
00:44:54.240 --> 00:45:03.150 Chris Riedel: Broad settlements over the years, no one got fired no one lost their bonus, upon which their profits regenerated.
00:45:06.240 --> 00:45:09.690 Chris Riedel: that's how forgiving the Department of Justice it.
00:45:10.770 --> 00:45:15.540 Frank R. Harrison: So when you were selling hunter labs I know that they were not the people that acquired it but.
00:45:15.570 --> 00:45:15.900 Frank R. Harrison: you're.
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:17.220 Chris Riedel: Always really wasn't quite sure.
00:45:18.060 --> 00:45:35.160 Frank R. Harrison: No, I totally understand that, but how were you able to find a partner, considering what's going on in their marketplace that was able to absorb your company, but at the same time continue to run ethically and sustain itself, given the circumstances of these blood brothers.
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:46.440 Chris Riedel: resold to a regional laboratory and it was a very significant lab but two years later it couldn't sustain itself, and it was sold to the third largest land in the country.
00:45:48.030 --> 00:45:49.770 Frank R. Harrison: which I gather, is not one of the blood brothers.
00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:52.110 Frank R. Harrison: No okay.
00:45:52.290 --> 00:45:53.460 Chris Riedel: And we have never sued.
00:45:53.580 --> 00:45:56.190 Chris Riedel: them we haven't found that they're doing these things.
00:45:57.510 --> 00:46:08.580 Frank R. Harrison: amazing I guess you know, not knowing how the the inner circle works when it comes to fraudulent activity and federal programs, I mean.
00:46:09.270 --> 00:46:15.900 Frank R. Harrison: it's just I guess we're all going to continue to try to learn to be advocates while still being blindsided.
00:46:16.230 --> 00:46:25.140 Frank R. Harrison: and try to learn how to live with that, even though it can be frustrating and can, at the same time, especially for the people, committing this fraud can be.
00:46:25.590 --> 00:46:39.270 Frank R. Harrison: You know not satisfying their profit line, but the thing that i'm trying to understand is you know, while you're continuing to advocate and do a lot more professional whistleblowing when you see fraud in action.
00:46:39.900 --> 00:46:45.870 Frank R. Harrison: you're still looking at something that is like you have to live with it anyway it's like live with the evil.
00:46:46.410 --> 00:47:08.700 Chris Riedel: lighting is real until the Department of Justice perp walks CEOs of big companies to prison it's going to continue, because the risks our own favor of the fraud in the unlikely event, you get caught DOJ tends to stab, at least in law, my Casey for 20 to 30 says in the door.
00:47:09.180 --> 00:47:14.640 Chris Riedel: So you're keeping 70 to 80% of the money you stole.
00:47:16.530 --> 00:47:18.540 Chris Riedel: And how's that going to deter fraud.
00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:25.410 Frank R. Harrison: You leave me you leave me speechless when it comes to that question.
00:47:26.100 --> 00:47:35.220 Chris Riedel: that's one of the reasons I wrote the book people were contact their Congressman say you need to look into this, yes, yes.
00:47:35.550 --> 00:47:42.060 Frank R. Harrison: And, ladies and gentlemen, out there, where we're headed for another break, but if you've got more questions about the book and about fraud itself.
00:47:42.420 --> 00:47:54.210 Frank R. Harrison: In your own health care issues, whatever they may be, with your provider with your pharmacy or with your insurance or whomever you can reach me and Scott and Chris as well at frank about health.
00:47:54.810 --> 00:48:08.820 Frank R. Harrison: At gmail COM in the next segment Chris is now going to empower all of you, in a way that's unique to him, but i'm what i'm looking forward to it because he's going to be helping to empower me as well, so stay tuned about.
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:17.040 Frank R. Harrison: being frank about health about medicare fraud, right here on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook live, we will be back in just a few.
00:50:47.580 --> 00:50:52.080 Frank R. Harrison: Everybody welcome to the final segment of this very special episode of frank about health.
00:50:52.620 --> 00:50:57.450 Frank R. Harrison: i'm here with Chris right Dale author of the book blood money available on amazon.com.
00:50:57.900 --> 00:51:05.640 Frank R. Harrison: He has been talking for the last 45 minutes about how first being a CEO of his own laboratory he learned to become a professional fraud fighter.
00:51:06.030 --> 00:51:16.860 Frank R. Harrison: And i'm sitting here literally inspired because I know what i've been trying to advocate for on my show are ways for everybody to be individual advocates of your own health care issues.
00:51:17.220 --> 00:51:26.850 Frank R. Harrison: We have the constant issues of finding the right treatment provider the right medications the right treatments, but the one lingering issue that all of us have to contend with as we've just discovered.
00:51:27.240 --> 00:51:36.990 Frank R. Harrison: Is the ongoing underpinnings of fraud that continue to exist now, we will have fighters like Chris continuing to advocate for all of us.
00:51:37.410 --> 00:51:49.620 Frank R. Harrison: But at the end of the day, we have to be our own advocates as local as we can get, especially when seeking a new provider when exploring alternative medications like cannabis, for example, or when dealing with coven.
00:51:50.220 --> 00:51:58.020 Frank R. Harrison: So, Chris i'm going to give you the floor, right now, if you could just look into the camera and tell all my listeners out there, as if you're talking to them in the room.
00:51:58.590 --> 00:52:08.520 Frank R. Harrison: How can you help instruct people or empower them to advocate for themselves, given an argument, they might be having with their insurance or their doctor.
00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:17.070 Frank R. Harrison: What kinds of things, would you like us to know how we can take ownership of our own healthcare minutes it's all this fraud that continues to exist.
00:52:19.080 --> 00:52:29.640 Chris Riedel: First of all, I don't consider myself a professional fraud fighter okay i'm not doing this for the money it's just the way i'm wired I hate to see brooks.
00:52:29.940 --> 00:52:42.660 Chris Riedel: getting away with it, and I want to stand up for taxpayers and lab industry or the level the playing field so that smaller labs could could compete, and we would have a much more vibrant industry.
00:52:43.230 --> 00:52:53.250 Chris Riedel: Right now, as far as what people can do it's just be alert you know if he Ob looks funny call it the insurance company, if you think you found a fraud.
00:52:54.270 --> 00:53:02.250 Chris Riedel: You know contact me and i'll be happy to go over with you, if you're outraged as I am about the lack of.
00:53:03.690 --> 00:53:15.540 Chris Riedel: Serious prosecutions by the Department of Justice contact your Congressman or sort of the godfather of the whistleblower status, you today, which is Senator chuck grassley.
00:53:16.950 --> 00:53:28.680 Chris Riedel: What I think we really have to have are humans in Congress we've got me and maybe a whistleblower attorney on one side and somebody from the Department of Justice on the other side.
00:53:29.790 --> 00:53:43.170 Chris Riedel: I think that would be the best way to go about getting the Department of Justice pressure from Congress, but look to change them with their ways and doesn't have to be make changes with my changes are simple, for example.
00:53:44.220 --> 00:53:45.090 Chris Riedel: If a company.
00:53:46.740 --> 00:53:57.150 Chris Riedel: signs of settlement agreement and paste money, I think the government should demand as a part of that settlement agreement that the Board of Directors and the senior management.
00:53:58.050 --> 00:54:04.590 Chris Riedel: or go over all the money they've been paid, all the fraud is going on, which is oftentimes seven to 10 years.
00:54:05.310 --> 00:54:20.970 Chris Riedel: If you do that you're going to find a board of directors themselves taking responsibility for ethical behavior and hiring compliance experts to work for them not management for them, and I think it doesn't trust taxpayers anything to do that.
00:54:22.590 --> 00:54:24.030 Chris Riedel: To me it's it's a very.
00:54:25.740 --> 00:54:28.680 Chris Riedel: Nice system it's just one day.
00:54:29.790 --> 00:54:43.050 Frank R. Harrison: What would you say about advocating for yourself if you're dealing with individuals out there who find themselves always on the intimidating side of things, they just become intimidated and they accept what they cannot change, I mean to.
00:54:43.560 --> 00:54:44.760 Chris Riedel: me that's that's sad.
00:54:44.940 --> 00:54:46.620 Frank R. Harrison: that's a challenge, I know we can.
00:54:46.650 --> 00:54:47.370 Chris Riedel: do some point.
00:54:47.520 --> 00:54:58.650 Chris Riedel: Well, hopefully they'll get angry enough but want to do something, you know contact your Congressman contact your State Representatives contract the Attorney general's office.
00:54:59.880 --> 00:55:07.290 Frank R. Harrison: But at the same time, one would recommend that for those type of individuals, especially if they're living with a comorbidity that is probably even limiting.
00:55:07.650 --> 00:55:18.480 Frank R. Harrison: Their ability to reach out and and and complain about what is being done to them, they probably would be best to have a lawyer on their side to continue to advocate for them as well, a mouthpiece of sorts correct.
00:55:18.750 --> 00:55:25.230 Chris Riedel: Well, lawyers, typically cost money now whistleblower lawyers, when you take your case they don't charge it's a contingency.
00:55:25.740 --> 00:55:37.500 Chris Riedel: I see they take a percentage, or they can you know contact me through my website Chris Roy deal don't author.com and i'm more than happy to help anybody who has been concerned.
00:55:38.340 --> 00:55:44.760 Frank R. Harrison: Okay, so that's ch ri s ri E D l.author.com.
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:54.000 Frank R. Harrison: rick great great Okay, at the same time, if anybody out there has ongoing questions after this show is completed airing.
00:55:54.990 --> 00:56:00.900 Frank R. Harrison: You could reach out to me and Chris at my gmail account frank about health one or two at gmail COM.
00:56:01.140 --> 00:56:07.170 Frank R. Harrison: So we can have follow ups, I gather, like you said, people can contact you if they're facing a fraud situation.
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:17.370 Frank R. Harrison: And if they just need someone to talk to, they could email me and I could pass that person over to you, and they could reach you that way by phone or just by email yes.
00:56:17.910 --> 00:56:24.900 Frank R. Harrison: Okay, so ladies, gentlemen, what we have here, and this episode of frank about health is a guest that wants to engage with you.
00:56:25.230 --> 00:56:32.700 Frank R. Harrison: Even beyond the show, so I hope all of you out there who are concerned about fraud that might be going on in your own individual circumstance.
00:56:33.060 --> 00:56:43.560 Frank R. Harrison: will take action to try to resolve what is definitely a financial loss, I mean we have all been trying to recover from the financial losses that co bit has struck upon us, but.
00:56:43.830 --> 00:56:49.230 Frank R. Harrison: that's one of the many different types of financial losses that many of us are going through at this time.
00:56:50.070 --> 00:57:01.530 Frank R. Harrison: In addition, is there any other information you want to share with the listeners about other projects, you might be working on that you can share, I mean I gather, if you are working under the lawsuits that remains private until.
00:57:02.070 --> 00:57:03.120 Chris Riedel: They start I would.
00:57:03.180 --> 00:57:04.470 Chris Riedel: I would just say this.
00:57:07.500 --> 00:57:19.290 Chris Riedel: If you get a laboratory tests, like a PSA that suddenly jumps up and you're concerned about prostate cancer, yet another test right away rapidly from a different.
00:57:20.220 --> 00:57:20.700 Frank R. Harrison: mm hmm.
00:57:21.630 --> 00:57:23.490 Chris Riedel: Most things you know do happen.
00:57:25.650 --> 00:57:27.930 Chris Riedel: So just you know be conscious.
00:57:28.650 --> 00:57:39.690 Frank R. Harrison: it's funny you say that I lot of personal note, my father just had his PSA done today he has a quarterly because he's resolved he's resolved his bout with prostate cancer, and they are consistently.
00:57:39.930 --> 00:57:50.700 Frank R. Harrison: Low so i'm glad to say he's not a victim of potential fraud, but what i've also seen is that, yes, you have to take a second opinion, not only with your doctor, but with your laboratory.
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:58.290 Frank R. Harrison: yeah you know I had a hearing test on yesterday and it showed me something that I don't like so i'm already making an appointment.
00:57:59.190 --> 00:58:10.080 Frank R. Harrison: For a second opinion about how to resolve it in a way different from just letting the year go by and see if my hearing improve you know it has to be a very aggressive stance when it comes to any metrics.
00:58:10.380 --> 00:58:11.670 Frank R. Harrison: That anybody is receiving.
00:58:12.120 --> 00:58:25.560 Chris Riedel: We actually found in our laboratory we use Siemens equipment senior the huge company made that a Germany very reputable and make very good equipment and they had two instruments or majoring PSA.
00:58:26.490 --> 00:58:27.810 Chris Riedel: And they didn't agree.
00:58:30.090 --> 00:58:30.750 Chris Riedel: So.
00:58:31.140 --> 00:58:42.600 Chris Riedel: Once we prove this, we call them in and they were you know very sheepishly it was like a dog, with its tail between his legs we go how the hell, can you sell these and which one is right.
00:58:44.790 --> 00:58:45.720 Frank R. Harrison: Oh, my God.
00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:57.930 Frank R. Harrison: There is just more to explore in this whole aspect I guess the the whole focus of empowering the listeners out there is definitely first by buying your book but second.
00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:07.020 Frank R. Harrison: By at the same time owning like what I said on my last show owning the awareness that when you're dealing with a medical professional.
00:59:07.410 --> 00:59:11.940 Frank R. Harrison: it's like you're dealing with a colleague, anyone who puts themselves in the vulnerable spot.
00:59:12.300 --> 00:59:20.340 Frank R. Harrison: of thinking that their doctor is almost like their authority figure saying you need to get this test, you need to have this medication, you need to have this surgery.
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:32.070 Frank R. Harrison: Everybody should be having an instant red flag just use their knowledge and awareness and research to be able to get second opinions to get the best affordable treatment methodology.
00:59:32.580 --> 00:59:47.310 Frank R. Harrison: To get alternative care of eligible i'm just I again I was inspired by your book, I feel empowered moving forward with my own health care modalities using both in mind, the quality of care and the quality of the system.
00:59:48.390 --> 01:00:05.940 Frank R. Harrison: Ladies and gentlemen, we're about to end today's show, I want to thank everybody out there for tuning in please buy chris's book blood money it, it is a necessary read through it's on Amazon COM and next week, we are going to encore.
01:00:07.110 --> 01:00:15.090 Frank R. Harrison: Nathan cranes episode on holistic treatment for cancer as you heard Chris mentioned an example of prostate cancer.
01:00:15.390 --> 01:00:25.950 Frank R. Harrison: I was mentioning on that episode, a month ago, that there is a holistic way of treating illnesses more beyond the idea that it is a death sentence and.
01:00:26.220 --> 01:00:34.470 Frank R. Harrison: It is already from what i've heard been the most watched episode of frank about health on Facebook live so for that reason alone.
01:00:34.830 --> 01:00:38.790 Frank R. Harrison: I definitely look forward to you hearing that episode and seeing that episode again.
01:00:39.330 --> 01:00:47.070 Frank R. Harrison: And then I will be back in two weeks, with a new live show that will be focusing on a returning guest, which I will leave silent for now.
01:00:47.670 --> 01:00:56.610 Frank R. Harrison: Chris Thank you very much for being on this episode of frank about health, I have a lot more to talk with you about I will reach out to you, as I mentioned earlier.
01:00:57.720 --> 01:01:04.770 Frank R. Harrison: Everybody out there, stay tuned now for Johnny tsunamis planet paga low low all about that crazy tobacco, known as cannabis.
01:01:05.820 --> 01:01:14.400 Frank R. Harrison: And if you have any more questions again frank about health one or two at gmail COM stay tuned and stay in touch and stay safe.