Employment Law Today

Tuesday, July 13, 2021
Facebook Live Video from 2021/07/13 - Addressing Grief In The Workplace

Facebook Live Video from 2021/07/13 - Addressing Grief In The Workplace


2021/07/13 - Addressing Grief In The Workplace

[NEW EPISODE] Addressing Grief In The Workplace

Recognizing and properly addressing grieving employees has often been a sensitive yet crucial part of running a business. With the individual and collective grief that has followed the Covid-19 pandemic, how can employers expand their awareness of their employees' mourning, have compassionate policies which allow workers the time and space to heal, while further helping the company to have healthier, more engaged workers?

On July 13th, we will be fortunate to have - a business coach / specialist in grief and recovery. Nesreen Ahmed will discuss grief and loss after Covid, how it looks, and what approaches companies can take when employees are grieving. A must-see show for businesses as we rethink the workplace.

Tune in for this informative conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Eric Sarver introduces his show and guest, Nesreen (Mahmoud) Ahmed, MS, PCC, CPQC CEO of Harbor Light Coaching. She is a professional life and grief coach. Nesreen goes on to share her background and how she got involved in grief recovery coaching. She talks about how the passing of her sister turned her whole world upside down. She explained that while going through the stages of grief and therapy, she was training as a business and life coach and through that she found out about grief coaching. Nesreen shared that working as a coach helped her heal and accept her relationship with her sister.

Segment 2

After the break, Eric continues the conversation about some common misconceptions around grief. Eric mentions how it’s helpful for employers to realize that everyone processes grief differently. He continues, explaining that grief is not often talked about in the workplace, likely because people don’t know how to approach the situation. Nesreen shares her experience with how COVID-19 impacts unresolved grief in employees. She mentioned that employees can become much less invested if they don’t have proper compassion from their employer. She has seen when employees have gone through grief and requested time off just to be denied. She said it makes the employee feel less valued and turns them off from performing to the best of their abilities. Eric shares his own experiences with this, citing times clients have come to him asking for advice about giving minimum time off. His advice is often that workers who get the bare minimum don’t feel inspired and tend to leave. Eric believes it is best to treat your employees better in order to receive a consistent quality performance.

Segment 3

Eric continues the conversation of addressing grief in the workplace. He believes it is important for the employer to work with the employee that is in distress. It could be helpful to involve the employee’s doctor or counselor when discussing a leave of absence. Eric mentions employee assistance programs, which can offer help for employees who are struggling with mental health issues. He encourages programs and policies alike to ensure employees feel supported and guided.

Segment 4

After the break, Nesreen shared the unique approach that Harbor Light Coaching uses for their clients who are on their journey of healing and recovery. She thinks it's a positive approach to remind those in the process of grieving, of all the small obstacles they overcome everyday; like getting out of bed or taking a shower. Nesreen cautions however, that a person in grief has to show up and put the work in if they want to see a positive change in their life. Towards the end of the show, Nesreen tells the audience how she can be reached and how you can set up a one- on-one if you are interested in grief training.


00:00:30.720 --> 00:00:48.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Good evening, welcome to employment law today i'm your host Eric solver i'm an employment law and business law attorney at the law office of Eric i'm sovereign and I have this show every Tuesday evening at 5pm here on talk radio and yc where I have guests and we talked about.

00:00:50.550 --> 00:01:10.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Small and midsize business owners today, including issues around employee wellness legal matters I come up business and and so forth, and so this evening i'm very pleased to have as my guest tonight Nasreen MN founder and CEO of harbor light coaching that's been welcome to the show.

00:01:12.540 --> 00:01:14.760 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Thank you, thank you so much for having me here tonight.

00:01:15.150 --> 00:01:25.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah great to have you on i'm glad you can be a guest this evening and i'm going to give you their proper introduction of course as one of our topics, so that our listeners know what to expect this evening.

00:01:26.190 --> 00:01:32.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Next week I will be addressing the topic of addressing grief in the workplace and we talked about this and that.

00:01:33.300 --> 00:01:41.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Recognizing and properly addressing grieving employees has often been a very sensitive yet crucial part of running a business.

00:01:41.790 --> 00:01:47.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And so, with the individual and collective grief that has been building up and following the coven 19 pandemic.

00:01:48.330 --> 00:01:57.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: We asked questions like, how can employers expand their awareness of their employer employees morning, and how can they have compassionate employment policies in place.

00:01:57.990 --> 00:02:17.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: which allow is a time and the space to heal while further helping the company it's at healthier more engaged workers and so on the savings episode where as again fortunate to have miss Nasreen amen NSPCC CP QC and co founder of her life coaching.

00:02:19.140 --> 00:02:28.410 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The screen is a business coach specialist in grief and recovery and we'll be discussing grief and loss after coven how it looks and what approaches companies can take.

00:02:29.430 --> 00:02:36.120 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I know I said a mouthful there, I want to say one more mouthful and then turn the floor over to the questions for you, and so i'm going to hear from you, for sure.

00:02:37.200 --> 00:02:45.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But I want to give you a proper introduction, as I mentioned, and so my guest tonight folks is that screen i'm ED, as I mentioned harbor like coaching.

00:02:46.140 --> 00:02:55.110 Eric Sarver, Esq.: that's really specializes in grief loss and major change she is committed to providing transformational coaching to clients around the world.

00:02:55.710 --> 00:03:05.010 Eric Sarver, Esq.: that's means coaching is focused on helping clients find peace after a loss a divorce or an illness and she supports them in addressing their mindset.

00:03:05.580 --> 00:03:09.870 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Overcoming the hurdles of grief and completing what's unfinished.

00:03:10.590 --> 00:03:22.410 Eric Sarver, Esq.: This real hold see professional certified coach credential from the International coaching federation, and she earned a master's of science degree in communication from Walden university.

00:03:23.160 --> 00:03:39.450 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Recently industry became a certified positive intelligence coach and it's just enrolled in her newest certification per man decreed educator training program with renowned grief expert David kassar so really great stuff that's really good to have you tonight on the show.

00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:41.700 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Thank you, thanks again for having me.

00:03:42.510 --> 00:03:57.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Sure thing yeah so one question I often ask by my guest special guests with interesting topics and field is, if you can tell our listeners a bit more about yourself and what inspired you to become a coach specializing in grief recovery.

00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:09.360 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: yeah you know my story unfortunately it starts with the loss of my sister so she passed away at the end of 2013 and it was very sudden very shocking.

00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:16.680 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Dramatic experience for me, as you can probably imagine my whole world went upside down and I.

00:04:17.490 --> 00:04:29.820 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: At the time, had no tools in terms of grief and loss to cope with what happened, and so I moved back to New York and I used to work previously on broadway and.

00:04:30.330 --> 00:04:33.930 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: TV and film production so we're going to find the scenes.

00:04:34.500 --> 00:04:48.300 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Doing wardrobe and costumes and I started working again in that field after my sister passed away and I had always sort of felt like this was not the right fields, from your mind forever career but didn't know what else to do at that point.

00:04:49.440 --> 00:04:59.910 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And I at that point really needed a bit of stability, I needed, something that I could just I could just go to work, and I can just do my job, and I can just come home like I don't I don't want to try to start something new, while i'm in the middle of also reaping.

00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:07.770 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And so I spent a lot of time sort of doing the things you're supposed to do when you lose someone so going to therapy and support groups and.

00:05:08.790 --> 00:05:16.560 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: They were all mildly helpful or helpful to a certain extent, you know I got something some benefits from them, but it was when my.

00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:30.000 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: counselor in the support group said, you know if you've been here for longer than two years, when we meet every week great if you've been here longer than two years, and we should talk about you know what else is going on for you and I remember, I had probably been in that group for about.

00:05:31.080 --> 00:05:35.250 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Three or four months at that point and I just was like you want me to spend another.

00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:37.050 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: year and a half or more.

00:05:37.320 --> 00:05:41.430 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Potentially you know being here every week that's it built.

00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:52.710 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: It felt overwhelming you know and it felt like an incredibly long time, even though there is no, you know timeline for grief it just for me personally was like that's more.

00:05:53.220 --> 00:06:06.690 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: than I want to spend you know, in a room for people who are still struggling with their loss and so by that point, I had already started training as a business and life coach a year long training program and through that.

00:06:08.460 --> 00:06:17.490 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I found out about brief coaching it was a few months into that program and somebody mentioned that they had recently met a grief coach and I was, like all right hold on.

00:06:17.940 --> 00:06:24.540 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: What is this all about you know tell me about grief coaching How does it work, what is it you know it's she was like, let me just introduce you to this person so.

00:06:24.870 --> 00:06:30.360 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: ended up Finally, you know, took a while i'll be honest, it took a while to make the call initially but.

00:06:30.870 --> 00:06:41.460 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I had a session with her, and you know really appreciate what she had to say and she basically you know coaching is all about moving you forward right it's all about reaching certain goals or.

00:06:42.180 --> 00:06:51.930 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Taking action and what I found was that my healing and healing in general I believe it's a proactive process right, we need to be willing to do the work and so.

00:06:52.500 --> 00:07:03.600 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I ended up working with her and through that it really just revolutionized my my relationship with my sister, you know how I was grieving and I really got to feel like the things that I was.

00:07:05.190 --> 00:07:11.700 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Holding on myself the things that I was beating myself up about about my relationship with my sister and about how I treated her how.

00:07:12.030 --> 00:07:21.570 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I wasn't as responsive or as compassionate at times, as I wish I had been you know all of that seem to melt away, and I really learned how to forgive myself and really learn how to.

00:07:22.230 --> 00:07:27.300 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Forgive her tease me forgive her for not being exactly do I wanted to be you know.

00:07:28.170 --> 00:07:37.650 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: At all times, and so it was about really understanding that i'm human she's human and we had a human relationship, you know, the whole of imperfections and ups and downs, and so.

00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:46.860 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: That alone was huge, you know that, alone, the fact that I could sort of quiet my mind and not you know beat myself up and not feel guilty and not.

00:07:47.970 --> 00:08:04.560 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: go over and over and over you know the things that happened was that alone was so big that I was like Okay, how do I do this, you know how do I get certified and trained and and that's what I did you know and i've been coaching for about six over six years now and and.

00:08:05.970 --> 00:08:10.410 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: love it absolutely love it and it's a it's a privilege and an honor and a pleasure every single day.

00:08:11.340 --> 00:08:21.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Yes, a lot there to really some solid deep stuff there seriously and I, you know again like I said before, but i'll say it again, my condolences on the loss of your sister.

00:08:22.200 --> 00:08:35.130 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Sure, I think it's just important to acknowledge and recognize people's grief and hardships and you know you said a few things, and so, when I heard the forgiveness of yourself and the person you lost and acknowledging the relationship being perfect.

00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:41.100 Eric Sarver, Esq.: From what little I know someone about grief and principles around the healing and some of his that.

00:08:41.430 --> 00:08:49.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: People we either relationship they lost or they read what they wish they had the prison or somewhere in between, and it sounds like.

00:08:49.740 --> 00:09:03.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The work you did talk about taking action being part of the process, you know being showing up being committed to that process I imagined helps to heal the relationship sort of retro actively is that is that accurate or is that.

00:09:05.250 --> 00:09:14.280 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: yeah yeah Certainly, there are a lot of hopes and dreams and expectations that we have about you know, especially when when a parent might lose a child something on those lines where we.

00:09:14.550 --> 00:09:27.660 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: We expect there to be a certain blow to life right and we expect to be able to witness certain events and beautiful memories and when those don't happen that that in itself is its own grief absolutely.

00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:38.730 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: yeah so and the work that I do really you know, like, I talked about it's it's about completing what feels unfinished right so much that feels unresolved.

00:09:39.030 --> 00:09:44.430 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And whether it is about you know, accepting that those you know I won't see my child get married or I won't.

00:09:44.760 --> 00:09:51.510 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, watch her drive a car, for the first time something like that or for me with my sister where we won't be able to have a conversation.

00:09:51.900 --> 00:09:58.410 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, to resolve some of the things that we had gone through at some of the you know things that are still are lingering in our relationship.

00:09:58.770 --> 00:10:17.400 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know so there's a very complex for sure, and I think the in my world grief has sort of two main aspects it's just the missing of your person right the deep longing the heartache that you won't get to experience, all these things with them in the future, and then also.

00:10:18.450 --> 00:10:30.900 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Again, that forgiveness piece really like being able to forgive yourself and forgive them and be able to say what happened in the relationship is just what happened, right now, a lot of judgment, not a lot of.

00:10:31.470 --> 00:10:42.390 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, wishing about more different better, but just really finding the piece of saying Okay, this is how it went again we're both human and I can I can really work to forgive myself and forgive them.

00:10:42.870 --> 00:10:54.060 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah sure you know, and I also hear a lot of my guys and a lot of times you know and people that often some something tragic or too much dramatic comes.

00:10:54.540 --> 00:11:05.970 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A change see change in the life or a change in their career and and often sort of a sense of turning that tragedy or trauma into something with meaning and purpose.

00:11:06.450 --> 00:11:15.150 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Having a purpose filled life, you know and i'm sorry to hear what happened to question your sister and i'm glad to hear it see you, you know just been you're.

00:11:15.990 --> 00:11:25.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Just having bloom and grow as it as a grief coach in your business and our Facebook friends, I see you post about you know your beautiful family and so it's scripted to see all that.

00:11:26.850 --> 00:11:35.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah and I want to ask you a video follow up question, in line with our topic that seems to flow we're talking about grief wondering.

00:11:35.550 --> 00:11:48.150 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So you know topic tonight being addressing grief in the workplace, and I feel like you have to know what the misconception door so i'm wondering what are some common misconceptions that start with that around grief and loss.

00:11:50.250 --> 00:11:54.090 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Well, I think the biggest misconception, is that we just need to give it time.

00:11:54.510 --> 00:12:02.820 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right time will heal all and we just need to wait kind of wait it out, you know suffer until suddenly we feel better.

00:12:03.900 --> 00:12:04.980 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Which is.

00:12:05.070 --> 00:12:17.760 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: A really unfortunate misconception because again if we're proactive, there are things that we can do to help ourselves move better or feel better and and move forward.

00:12:17.910 --> 00:12:25.620 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right i'm not saying it over, but certainly move forward and it's not just about time right it's not just about waiting and.

00:12:26.310 --> 00:12:33.330 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: So I think that's one thing and then there's an assumption that we're all kind of got to go through it the same way right we're all going to be upset for a while we're all going to be.

00:12:33.630 --> 00:12:38.580 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: A little out of it we might not be able to sleep we're not super hungry and then suddenly everything's fine again.

00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:40.410 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And there are.

00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:55.980 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know so many different ups and downs and waves of grief and everybody reacts to it differently right there's no one right way to grieve and there's no one no appropriate or or predictable way that it's going to go for us.

00:12:56.280 --> 00:12:59.610 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right and even if we grieve something before grief someone before.

00:12:59.970 --> 00:13:06.990 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Our next you know experience of grief might be very different right, and I think a lot of people are like Oh, I know how to deal with this and then it hits them and they're like.

00:13:07.470 --> 00:13:15.810 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Why is this so different right, so we really have to understand that every experience is unique every grievers unique and you know we can't assume that.

00:13:16.050 --> 00:13:28.020 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Just because you know so and so went through it this way before that that's reliable and they're going to be able to do it that way again right so definitely need to see each experiences unique.

00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:29.130 Right.

00:13:30.570 --> 00:13:30.990 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: yeah.

00:13:31.410 --> 00:13:31.560 No.

00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:34.410 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And then I think.

00:13:35.610 --> 00:13:43.530 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: The other misconception, and this happens, a lot in the workplace, too, but but in society in general it's like we can't talk about it.

00:13:44.190 --> 00:13:56.760 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, like part of why i'm so excited to be here today is, I think it is critical, especially now is especially now when work and home have become so relaxed and condensed.

00:13:56.760 --> 00:13:58.260 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And you know they're they're.

00:13:58.290 --> 00:14:10.110 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: commingling in so many new ways and we're all collectively going through grief right, I think we have to talk about it, I think we have to you know, the idea is that the misconception, is that.

00:14:10.590 --> 00:14:15.390 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: We should talk about behind closed doors, with a therapist at a support group with you know trusted professionals and that's it.

00:14:15.780 --> 00:14:17.280 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: there's nobody else we should talk about with.

00:14:17.580 --> 00:14:19.800 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And i'm really here to normalize the conversation.

00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:20.580 Eric Sarver, Esq.: right we.

00:14:20.670 --> 00:14:28.890 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: All grieve we all go through grief and multiple kinds and multiple times in our life We grieve and so why can't we talk about it.

00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:31.950 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right and why can't we talk about it in settings like this.

00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:37.890 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Where you know we have to think about it, and we have to consider it when we're talking about our employees when we're talking about.

00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:47.280 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Our business health and our business well being right, we have to take this into consideration, so I think it's really important that business owners really start to be open to talking about it more.

00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:53.100 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: and understanding, you know educating themselves so that they can understand and better support their employees.

00:14:53.700 --> 00:15:00.120 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Rights rights really good stuff and, as we know, we are going to talk about this topic, a lot tonight, between now and six.

00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:06.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And we do have our first commercial break when I come back with this reading Ahmed have harbor like coaching will be discussing.

00:15:06.990 --> 00:15:23.160 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Recognizing me from the workplace having policies that help employees to better heal and similar topics so stick around from pamela today your interpreter nyc i'm your host Derek solver my guest is you know men stick around we'll be right back.

00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:55.500 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to employment law today i'm your host erick solver business law and employment law attorney here with my guest tonight Nasreen Ahmed founder and CEO of harbor like coaching specializing in business coaching grief coaching grief and loss recovery.

00:17:56.700 --> 00:18:04.080 Eric Sarver, Esq.: really great topic for tonight, and you know before I get to this question, I mean I wanted to recap, something you said before the break I think was so important.

00:18:04.860 --> 00:18:12.930 Eric Sarver, Esq.: These three common misconceptions about grief, because if I feel like if people have this in society, they will take it into their workplace and so.

00:18:13.410 --> 00:18:21.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Employees might feel isolated and alienated when their employer things oh I better give you know mark or Joan.

00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:31.890 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Just time to heal so i'm going to leave them alone or maybe they think Oh, and three months, six months they'll be over critical over this in quotes or you know time heals all wounds is you sad or.

00:18:32.490 --> 00:18:43.170 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Just the misconceptions that you know if john from accounting lost his father's a coven sick, a year ago, then you know, Timothy in financial services, who lost his dad.

00:18:43.770 --> 00:18:56.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: and his dad was older, therefore, it should be a similar process, whereas it's very different in each situation and, finally, the idea that you know that we don't talk about grief, I think, often people know what to say and they're uncertain uncomfortable.

00:18:57.510 --> 00:19:04.800 Eric Sarver, Esq.: or they don't want to face the reality of grief and loss, so they just don't talk and I know that it can often lead the person grieving to feel.

00:19:05.100 --> 00:19:16.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Like they're not seeing or that their pain is a recognized, you know which can so be a challenge to healing, so I think so important to get those misconceptions no upfront and talked about.

00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:26.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And account easily as question about the pandemic and wondering like, how is it in your mind in your experience how is it covert 19 endemic.

00:19:27.300 --> 00:19:37.380 Eric Sarver, Esq.: impacted the way in which unresolved grief may show up in employees it hasn't made it harder or easier for employers to recognize grief and their employees.

00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:40.650 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I would say it's much harder.

00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.070 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: to recognize grief now because I mean, first of all we're not all in the same.

00:19:44.100 --> 00:19:50.370 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: room right we're not on the same building we're not all in the same office anymore, and so it can be much easier for somebody to sort of.

00:19:50.880 --> 00:20:01.470 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: fly under the radar a little bit right like or for all of us to be a little less conscious of the people, because we're not around them as much or we're not in front of them face to face.

00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:13.200 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: So I think in some ways, it can be a lot harder and also every person every single person has been impacted by covert in some way or another, and most of us in a more negative way or in the sense that.

00:20:13.470 --> 00:20:18.600 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: we've got way more on our plates way more you know juggling of work and life and the kids at home school and.

00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:20.820 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Not to be on calls ourselves and suddenly the.

00:20:20.820 --> 00:20:23.130 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: cats in the in the you know scream and.

00:20:23.610 --> 00:20:25.380 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: So you know it gets really.

00:20:26.430 --> 00:20:36.780 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: overwhelming really fast right and we start to feel like whoa okay there's a lot going on, and so we we as employers may not be as present to our employees as a result, right.

00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:45.180 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: But because everybody has something going on, you know it may not be obvious that Joan is in accounting is also breathing.

00:20:45.780 --> 00:20:56.190 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right, so I think I think employers, you know, in some ways, have to be all that much more diligent all that much more willing again to go there to have these conversations to offer something.

00:20:56.430 --> 00:21:03.660 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: To their employees who may not be so willing to ask for it up front, you know, especially if the employee is really struggling.

00:21:04.320 --> 00:21:13.470 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, it can be very easy to say i'm just going to kind of put my head down and and go through this alone and not kind of not reach out and not get the support that I actually need.

00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:21.570 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah I think that's very accurate, I think you know that, with everyone being sort of far away, you know as a reminder anything people weren't home.

00:21:22.260 --> 00:21:27.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Then, as soon as when it comes to the office and, as you pointed out, you know when people are overwhelmed themselves.

00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:35.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Sometimes they just don't have the awareness, to look to others with a bandwidth or maybe they don't think did you did you actually do have the bandwidth but.

00:21:35.910 --> 00:21:44.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I can see how to say this word three or four years ago and say one employee lost them and putting them in, say, a terrible accident.

00:21:45.570 --> 00:21:53.610 Eric Sarver, Esq.: It might be a different situation then when people in the employer, the business owner and sayings is underwater trying to get PPP loans.

00:21:53.970 --> 00:22:03.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: wanting to get open and it's not as a as an excuse right because you know they're ultimately their employees wellness it's a compassion issue right to be compassionate with the employees.

00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:10.380 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Is for their health and well being it's also for the company's health and well being you know I had to talk with you about this in preparation for the show.

00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:18.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: For those listeners that might say, you know well i'm a nice person i'm not so warm and fuzzy and years, but for me business, the bottom line.

00:22:18.690 --> 00:22:25.530 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Well, your bottom line is a business owner, and I think you know can be seriously impact in a negative way.

00:22:25.950 --> 00:22:31.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: right if your employees are grieving and I quite peasant there they're feeling sick or exhausted not sleeping.

00:22:32.670 --> 00:22:40.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So you know all good points, I think you know there's pandemic really has, I think, made it harder with everybody living different ways and.

00:22:41.430 --> 00:22:45.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: people wanted to just sort of move on, you know pretend it's done it's over.

00:22:46.320 --> 00:22:52.890 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But getting back to work, even as i'm even just reading what we lost, you know, in the 1516 months, who are home.

00:22:53.310 --> 00:23:06.720 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Maybe for some of the start to venture out post vaccination and seeing some some rates go down certain areas, so I appreciate that you know I do and just I think it's so important to again get this out there for people here.

00:23:08.790 --> 00:23:12.180 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: yeah absolutely I mean again I don't think it's about.

00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:16.500 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I don't think it can just be about the bottom line.

00:23:16.860 --> 00:23:19.350 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: yeah you know what I mean because, like you said you know.

00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:26.160 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: If if your employee is not well, for whatever reason, right like if there's an illness if there's a.

00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:33.240 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Divorce going on, if there's a grief going on, you know that employees, going to be less focused they're going to be less.

00:23:33.840 --> 00:23:45.000 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Potentially right potentially less invested in their work brain i've talked to people who are really bitter about their employer and the situation that they're put in.

00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:54.780 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Because they can't take time off right they can't and so they're much less invested and they feel much less valued and they're not as consider it with the clients they're not as.

00:23:55.110 --> 00:24:04.170 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, considered about going above and beyond, as the employer would want them to, and so I think we really have to think about this, if you are just a numbers person right.

00:24:04.170 --> 00:24:11.820 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And, and it is just about bottom line you still have to consider that your employee is severely you know distracted and severely.

00:24:14.520 --> 00:24:16.560 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: what's the word compromised.

00:24:16.860 --> 00:24:18.780 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Yes, your employee is compromised.

00:24:18.810 --> 00:24:27.360 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: brain and you cannot have your employee, you cannot ask and expect your employee to do the same level and quality of work it's just unrealistic.

00:24:27.870 --> 00:24:37.560 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, and I worked with a lot of people to who have said, I need this job right like suddenly they are much more invested, because there are suddenly a single parent or the only breadwinner you know they've got.

00:24:37.770 --> 00:24:45.090 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Some some real investment in making this job work but they're still compromised they're still stuck if they're still having trouble really focusing.

00:24:45.330 --> 00:24:58.110 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And so they're going to do the best they can, but they're not going to be, at the same quality or same output, you know as they were before, so I think we really have to think about this in terms of the human aspect of it to even if it's just about bottom lines.

00:24:58.590 --> 00:25:06.630 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah yeah and I agree totally I mean my you know approached always been that I think employers should look at things more compassionate effective from a customer perspective.

00:25:07.050 --> 00:25:13.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I know that when I get clients who are employers and they will ask me about drafting the employee handbook for them a set of policies and they asked well.

00:25:14.250 --> 00:25:24.330 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Some some national in the past, a few of you have asked me what's the minimum modification things that need to get under the law for paid time off or simply and what's the minimum and to pay i'll say you know.

00:25:24.870 --> 00:25:30.630 Eric Sarver, Esq.: From a legal standpoint, this is what you're required to do this, what you want to do, but, but you know business advisor role.

00:25:31.290 --> 00:25:39.600 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The human point of view, I think that you know workers who get the bare minimum, often don't feel inspired they don't feel they are you don't feel inspired.

00:25:39.930 --> 00:25:45.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: and making it resentful and depressants hearts and that he focused and they might just leave and go somewhere else and.

00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:54.180 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And so it's worth So even if you are looking at it as like it's all about money, which I don't think is the only.

00:25:54.720 --> 00:26:03.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: factor but that's your philosophy, then you know you would want to invest in your employees treat them better and though performance, I think.

00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:14.400 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A lot of businesses are coming process that have seemed obvious but almost newfound corporate philosophy, so I appreciate your mind in some tonight if you're out there, if you are an employer.

00:26:15.690 --> 00:26:21.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: With employees come back here to the PepsiCo but 19 you know to be mindful of these issues and.

00:26:22.290 --> 00:26:28.470 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think it also brings us to another sort of part of our topic tonight, which is we're talking about right the challenging issue.

00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:45.510 Eric Sarver, Esq.: misconceptions around grief wondering, so now that we know some of the issues most important to focus on grief in your employees, what are some good workplace policies that you believe an employer can implement to help their breathing boys to get well and heal.

00:26:47.310 --> 00:26:59.910 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I mean, I would say basic bottom line first thing you can do is give a generous bereavement leave yes right like really allowing the person some time you know, very often, it.

00:27:00.780 --> 00:27:04.740 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Like I said, some people really want to work, whether it's because they need that.

00:27:05.100 --> 00:27:12.570 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Or whether it's because the work distracts them right work is there, one thing that they could just go to and not think so much right.

00:27:12.930 --> 00:27:22.020 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Well, but giving giving the option or the opportunity for people to have a generous bereavement leave I think is key, and I think it did when.

00:27:23.010 --> 00:27:29.160 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: When needed can make a huge difference in what you're saying, which is the employee suddenly feels like oh my employer actually cares.

00:27:29.490 --> 00:27:39.180 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: right there you know what a generous gift during a time where I feel so low or I feel so chaotic or I feel so you know, unable to.

00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:47.160 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: function properly right here's an opportunity for me to take a little time off and I had to kind of get back to some kind of level ground.

00:27:47.430 --> 00:27:53.130 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: so that I can return to work, you know, so I think I would say that would be the first you know and most important.

00:27:53.970 --> 00:28:06.450 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I know I offer, but I know plenty of other organizations that offer like sensitivity trainings so whether that's just for your HR team, or at least just for your HR team, but you know, ideally you're going to be giving.

00:28:07.260 --> 00:28:11.910 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: some kind of training or some time some kind of presentation to the entire company.

00:28:12.270 --> 00:28:23.610 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right and really helping them understand what are the best practices, what are these misconceptions what can we do as an organization to support any one person or multiple people who have gone through free.

00:28:26.070 --> 00:28:34.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You are really good points there, you know as we really think and I love to dress a new order, some of the more we get back from the break but it's time for our second.

00:28:35.040 --> 00:28:46.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Commercial break so folks here tonight, my guest next mean i'm in co founder farmer like coaching when we come back we'll talk a little more about these workplace policies around grief and loss talk about.

00:28:48.060 --> 00:28:54.870 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Dreams philosophy and approach to helping to heal and Rome so stick around we'll be right back.

00:31:28.290 --> 00:31:30.510 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to employment law today.

00:31:30.750 --> 00:31:39.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: i'm your host erick savoured employment law business law attorney at the law offices American soccer here tonight, my guest and that's when I met of Harvard like coaching.

00:31:40.110 --> 00:31:47.370 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Business coach grief coach and we're talking about addressing grief in the workplace directly in light of coven 19.

00:31:47.820 --> 00:31:52.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So a couple of things that you said that during the break, if I can just give my thoughts on there.

00:31:53.370 --> 00:31:59.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: In terms of like the policies that employers can have in place, I tend to agree that I think you know, like the.

00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:12.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: riemann policy can be key and there's different states various of employers and multi state say offices operations some do require a certain bereavement period be allowed, three days, five days.

00:32:13.590 --> 00:32:21.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know other states are silent on the issue, others say right depends upon what you choose as an employer and then, once you choose those policies, you have to abide by them.

00:32:22.320 --> 00:32:29.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But it's interesting because they can find a pto and what general generalized paid time off, it can be its own separate policy but.

00:32:30.420 --> 00:32:42.390 Eric Sarver, Esq.: This is one of those issues, I think, where it's similar to the client I had ones, who asked me, you know what's the minimum amount of vacation time sick time and and I sort of encouraged her.

00:32:42.870 --> 00:32:50.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And sort of I did I encouraged her to expand that because really happier healthier employees make your world better and you just feel better being a better person.

00:32:50.850 --> 00:33:02.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So I think it's also important to that employees can work with the person to design that lead, you know they can consider maybe where the person's doctor says, or a counselor or therapist.

00:33:03.300 --> 00:33:14.010 Eric Sarver, Esq.: To be a multifaceted plan, I know that a lot of companies have employee assistance programs or employees are struggling with mental health issues or addiction substance abuse.

00:33:14.670 --> 00:33:28.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Employees with issues around depression or anxiety and so I think it's really important to have those policies in place, and I think you know employers might look to their state for the minimum but thinking about the maximum privacy so important.

00:33:29.670 --> 00:33:36.120 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I know you mentioned earlier it's hard to know the timeline on grief so it's a tricky issue Oh, how much leave.

00:33:36.510 --> 00:33:51.810 Eric Sarver, Esq.: is enough is two weeks enough for Barry who's itching to get back to work, but not for Susan who wants more time, so I think it really is important to individualize it as for your earlier point about grief being a very individualized personalized experience.

00:33:52.980 --> 00:34:04.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: wondering, do you do counsel employers about or encourage them business owners to take to implement or even policies or is that something you work more with employees on negotiating for themselves or.

00:34:06.450 --> 00:34:10.590 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Mostly it's the latter so it's mostly been about advocating or.

00:34:10.650 --> 00:34:15.480 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: asking my clients pushing my clients, encouraging them to advocate for themselves because they don't have.

00:34:15.510 --> 00:34:25.320 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Good bereavement leave, so what you're talking about in terms of like two weeks, you know, even if more if possible i'm like well, that would be a dream for a lot of people, I know you know, and I think there's so many people that.

00:34:25.890 --> 00:34:40.680 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: really appreciate having a little extra time right because two weeks is maybe not even enough to have the funeral and service, you know what I mean like depending on coven depending on what's been going on, you know, like everything has been so prolonged and extended.

00:34:41.100 --> 00:34:42.840 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: that people are finding that.

00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:47.280 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: There, that the actual bereavement or the actual starting of grief, you know.

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:56.520 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: is even delayed in some ways, you know, I have a friend, in particular, who lost her father and she wasn't even able to go down to see her family.

00:34:57.150 --> 00:35:05.700 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, for months, because of covert and the lockdown you know and so she lost her father and then that was it for about six months until she could actually go down that.

00:35:06.180 --> 00:35:14.670 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, so it really like two weeks, you know when you think about the experience that people are having is really like you know.

00:35:16.290 --> 00:35:17.340 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: A drop in the bucket.

00:35:17.520 --> 00:35:19.110 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And three days is an insult.

00:35:19.170 --> 00:35:29.430 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: As far as i'm concerned, you know, and so I always and I love what you're saying about Personalizing it and allow it to be an individual choice and a conversation between you and the employee so.

00:35:29.730 --> 00:35:30.420 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know I would.

00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:44.700 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I honestly encourage people to take or to offer a month right to any employee, depending on their situation, depending on their choice they might take the full month they may not right and how can we work that out, what are the.

00:35:45.660 --> 00:35:50.280 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know considerations that need to put in place, can they work from home right, it can they do some work.

00:35:50.520 --> 00:36:00.330 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: But maybe not to the same extent that they would be had they if they're working full time you know So what is it that we can work out, as you know, employer employee and.

00:36:00.930 --> 00:36:11.640 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: and come to a kind of a happy medium right, you may not be fully satisfied your employee may not be fully satisfied, but at least you've come to an agreement, where you both feel like you're getting something right and isn't that the ideal.

00:36:13.080 --> 00:36:22.110 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Absolutely necessary anything so true and and I think that employers made your they don't have the quote unquote time to spare, but in reality.

00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:28.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: As we talked about earlier, the person's going back they're not and the grieving and they're still traumatized not.

00:36:28.830 --> 00:36:31.440 Eric Sarver, Esq.: In a space to work them they're not really going to produce.

00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:43.440 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Few anyway, and the cost and expense treating someone else again this is for those a singularity might be thinking well that might cost me to watch my employee think about a class not to have those policies in place.

00:36:44.010 --> 00:36:58.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And really you can do it, I mean I shouldn't say I guess that's also individualized based on the employers staff have people they have, but you can their their template you can hire to fill in for somebody you know when somebody gets sick with a serious condition.

00:36:59.250 --> 00:37:15.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Some companies have a certain size they're required and definitely to give on a lead and get the job of the person is back 12 weeks right so it's it's possible to do just have a question of knowing what your employees need and yeah working with them individually.

00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:25.530 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think the three days i've I see states and having that as a policy or certain cities for the employer must give that I think, to me it sort of reflects the lack of.

00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:33.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: understanding about how long the process is and the crowds desire to sort of tied into a box in a really you know you sort of.

00:37:34.410 --> 00:37:43.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Just cried for three days and you're more than, then you kind of come out of the ashes you don't heal the way to move on and, as I think you mentioned grief is.

00:37:43.710 --> 00:37:51.840 Eric Sarver, Esq.: not linear it comes in waves and such, so I think that's really good you know place to start you also talked about earlier just been.

00:37:52.500 --> 00:38:00.930 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Listening you mentioned sensitivity trainings is beautiful, you know because that's something where you can actually encourage somebody to.

00:38:01.530 --> 00:38:11.370 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Do maybe he'll even more quickly, or even just in a better way because people actually talking to them, he bore not sort of just giving them pat's on the back and you know.

00:38:11.790 --> 00:38:21.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Prior to that, actually, can make the situation worse, you know I think we've all known someone a bit in there will be reading and someone who is grieving and somebody said the wrong.

00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:27.840 Eric Sarver, Esq.: thing, maybe not know what to say or just you know in hindsight, you look back and see what was pretty insensitive person, you know.

00:38:29.730 --> 00:38:44.640 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: yeah fortunately there's so many cliches that come along with grief and 90% of them, if not all of them are insulting or you know can damage the relationship if said in the wrong way said at the wrong time to the wrong person right so.

00:38:45.060 --> 00:38:46.620 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, things like Oh well just.

00:38:46.620 --> 00:38:49.920 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, be grateful that you know you had that much time with him.

00:38:49.950 --> 00:38:53.430 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know or or, thank goodness, he didn't suffer, or at least he's not suffering anymore he's.

00:38:53.430 --> 00:38:54.120 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: In a better place.

00:38:54.390 --> 00:38:58.260 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right, what does that mean what does that mean to me and my broken heart today.

00:38:58.350 --> 00:39:03.210 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Knowing how does that help me today, and I know like what you're doing is basically saying.

00:39:03.720 --> 00:39:13.020 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: don't feel bad i'm not going to give you the space, you know to feel safe to feel her to feel seen and this conversation, basically, is over, and essentially the relationship is over.

00:39:13.470 --> 00:39:27.360 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right and people of course don't intend for that, but they don't like you said they don't know what else to say they don't know how to handle this specific situation with this specific person and they may not know how to handle grief period right they may not be very emotionally.

00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:35.670 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: open to you know to to grief to their own mortality rate is a lot of things that people get triggered by.

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:42.000 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: When it comes to grief and so that really impacts their ability to be with somebody who's gone through a loss right.

00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:44.610 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: So I think we have to be a bit.

00:39:44.730 --> 00:39:59.640 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: sensitive and understanding patient, you know as the grievers with the people around us and understand that that might be their own limitations, however, if we can have across you know across the board and understanding of what, not to say.

00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:00.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right.

00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:07.170 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: of things that might you know are things that you can say, or you can offer as a as a source of comfort right.

00:40:07.650 --> 00:40:12.990 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: To not be judgmental to not you know jump to conclusions to not assume this person can compartmentalize.

00:40:13.560 --> 00:40:25.830 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, I think that is very helpful and that's why I really advocate for the sensitivity, training, because I think they give your employees a sense of like okay my workplace is going to be at least this level of safe.

00:40:26.130 --> 00:40:39.810 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right right, I know that i'm not going to have to encounter these really ridiculous comments from so, and so you know in this department and i'm not going to have to endure a meeting where you know I get five people saying i'm so sorry for your loss right like.

00:40:39.990 --> 00:40:41.550 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And then they move on with the meeting so.

00:40:42.150 --> 00:40:43.080 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I think that there's.

00:40:44.100 --> 00:40:46.260 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: It gives people as a baseline it gives.

00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:54.750 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: A baseline of like here's what should what I should do what I should say here's what to avoid and you know this makes for a more you know sensitive and more.

00:40:55.230 --> 00:41:00.390 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: connected and employees right like if you can actually be vulnerable and have a conversation.

00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:06.960 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Even if just with one person, you know, in your workplace like what does that open up for you and what does that allow how much more you.

00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:12.510 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: willing to go to work and and wanting to go to work because you know that it's going to be this level safe.

00:41:12.750 --> 00:41:22.560 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, so I think there's a lot of value in doing the sensitivity trainings and again because employers and traditionally like this is a mental health issue and we can't talk about mental health and we don't want to.

00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:25.590 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: bring it into the workplace, because it's too triggering or it might do something.

00:41:27.060 --> 00:41:33.660 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: yeah look, I think we really need to normalize this like we 100% every single person on this planet.

00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:37.740 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: is going through grief or will go through grief at some point in their life period.

00:41:38.070 --> 00:41:45.780 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right, we have to be able to talk about it, we have to be able to talk about it in a way that actually helps people instead of against using these platitudes.

00:41:46.020 --> 00:41:57.510 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And just patting them on the back and you know, maybe, making a donation every now and again from organization right there needs to be something more meaningful more useful and that's actually going to make a difference, for your employees so.

00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:02.160 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: sensitivity trainings are a huge step in the right direction.

00:42:03.180 --> 00:42:09.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think, so too, you know I mean I think about as you're talking that's been a brand new transition, how many organizations.

00:42:09.660 --> 00:42:18.150 Eric Sarver, Esq.: hired me as an analyzer need besides the compliance and Defense work to train them around issues of sexual harassment or you know this training now.

00:42:18.660 --> 00:42:22.410 Eric Sarver, Esq.: These companies have trainings around diversity, inclusion and around.

00:42:23.370 --> 00:42:29.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: How to prevent sexual harassment, I recognize it having you know, make sure that there are micro aggressions of racism in the workplace.

00:42:29.670 --> 00:42:36.870 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So it almost seems naturally follows, why not have these trainings around an issue like week, which is very pervasive.

00:42:37.200 --> 00:42:48.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And as you pointed out, mistreated hits everyone at some point in their lives, and right now with coordinating them endemic I think people going through it a lot and just before 911 themselves mission.

00:42:48.570 --> 00:42:59.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: To agree because there's a look at that you know deference and loss, you know this this this, and this, you know encoded so who am I to quote unquote i'll put it in quotes airports complain, you know that you know I just.

00:43:00.510 --> 00:43:12.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I just right now didn't see relatives for a year didn't see friends or you know there's all that, I think we sometimes tend to minimize our grief if it's not acknowledge that will be important, I think.

00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:18.210 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Absolutely there's different layers different levels to grief and we should never try to compare but.

00:43:18.870 --> 00:43:25.320 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I absolutely agree, I feel like i'm part of why i'm here tonight and part of what i'm doing in general, with all of my.

00:43:25.590 --> 00:43:34.590 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: efforts and my passion is to advocate for this right to normalize this like I said earlier, we need to talk about this, and we need to make it a normal conversation that everybody is.

00:43:34.890 --> 00:43:42.030 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Having these days, and so I love what you're saying that it's just a natural progression of everything else that we've already talked about and and are currently talking about.

00:43:42.750 --> 00:43:50.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Certain absolutely speaking and talking about things, but figures much break let our sponsors and other close talking about their shows and other issues.

00:43:51.390 --> 00:44:00.570 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But folks you're listening to employment law employment law today I know it's over employment law business attorney my guest tonight is this arena ma.

00:44:01.890 --> 00:44:13.440 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Co founded probably coaching great conversation more to come back we're talking about the screens philosophy and approach and harper like coaching how they can help clients to heal and recover so stick around we'll be right back.

00:46:48.900 --> 00:46:57.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Here we go welcome back to employment law today i'm your host erick solver speaking today with my guests unemployment lot today necessary and i'm ED.

00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:04.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: founder and CEO harbor like coaching and as we're talking about today, the issue of grief and addressing grief in the workplace.

00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:19.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The screen really so far, I must say some really great insights and not surprisingly insights for you and information and just your observations are really on point I want to, I thank you for what you shared so far, you know with our audience tonight.

00:47:21.150 --> 00:47:26.490 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Thank you, like I said i'm really passionate about this and I love talking about it every chance I get so I really.

00:47:27.540 --> 00:47:28.920 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: really appreciate the opportunity.

00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:40.920 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Sure that's my feeling about the climate like to talk about it and say I love it it's great and I had to remind myself none of my clients care about as much as I do, so I tried it but, but this is a great topic and.

00:47:41.430 --> 00:47:51.060 Eric Sarver, Esq.: What I want to do it, I want to ask you about you know your immersive is ready, but your unique perhaps philosophy or approaching, what do you impart like coaching might do.

00:47:51.540 --> 00:48:00.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: To help your clients, whether their employers, employees to heal and recover and grow as we emerged from this pandemic kind of approach, do you take.

00:48:02.430 --> 00:48:04.440 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know I I really believe that.

00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:11.100 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: If you're grieving right now, and you wake up every day, that means you're a superhero.

00:48:11.490 --> 00:48:25.620 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You have superhuman strength, my friends period right we don't give ourselves credit, we are so busy beating ourselves up again, you know worrying about all the things we didn't do we didn't say you know how can we be this way.

00:48:25.950 --> 00:48:26.970 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: we're so busy trying.

00:48:26.970 --> 00:48:38.220 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: To take care of our kids starting you know, taking care of our clients and the work that we have to do we forget that we should give ourselves a lot of grace and a lot of space and.

00:48:39.390 --> 00:48:44.610 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, really understand that it requires superhuman strength, just to get up out of bed.

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:49.290 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Right and if you do that most days, not every day, but most days you're doing great you know.

00:48:50.100 --> 00:48:55.350 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: So I really you know hold my clients as superheroes their whole they are complete.

00:48:55.680 --> 00:49:07.560 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: They are absolutely capable of handling all that they're going through you know, and I know it's heavy I absolutely understand and appreciate, you know how heavy it is, but it doesn't mean that they can't walk with it doesn't mean that they cannot deal with it.

00:49:08.100 --> 00:49:14.760 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And so that's really my approach and that's how I hold all of my clients that's really, what I want to instill in them.

00:49:15.090 --> 00:49:24.540 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: As much as possible, because I think, very often, especially when we're when we're in grief, you know we tend to feel so low that we forget that we can stand up, we forget, you know.

00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:29.820 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: We kind of feel like we're on our knees and we're forgetting to put our Cape on and actually start.

00:49:30.270 --> 00:49:45.660 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Building up our needs and so really my intention is to help them see how strong, they are and how capable, they are, and you know, even if they don't want to be strong and don't want to be capable, you know just being able to get up out of bed that's a great start.

00:49:46.200 --> 00:49:55.800 Eric Sarver, Esq.: i'm glad it's really you know I think moving and true, I mean you think about it, if somebody had like the same kind of shopping physical event like.

00:49:56.550 --> 00:50:07.110 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A massive heart attack you know or a very severe as the cancer, you know if they were going through a lot of that rigorous treatments and surgery if they could just get up and.

00:50:07.530 --> 00:50:16.860 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know just take a shower and get through part of the day right, you know that's that's heroic and it's brave is courage, no invasive you know hardship and I think.

00:50:17.190 --> 00:50:27.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: We often don't give ourselves that scene grace when the wound is emotional spiritual you know, psychological and mental and not something you can see.

00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:37.620 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, in a Catholic arm or in a big scar where the surgery was so that's an interesting I think interesting approach to take with your with your clients.

00:50:38.430 --> 00:50:49.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And yeah I think that's pretty great you know to just share that with you know all of us, other other approaches that you find really work with your client when you work with clients on issues agree.

00:50:51.180 --> 00:50:58.170 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Well, I always say like I said, you know healing is proactive and so you have to show up and do the work right so as a coach.

00:50:58.470 --> 00:51:10.590 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: from week to week you know, there are things that i'm going to give you to do right there's going to be some interest in reading involve some writing involved there's some things some practices that you're actually doing from week to week from when we meet.

00:51:10.620 --> 00:51:11.940 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know from session to session so.

00:51:12.210 --> 00:51:17.880 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You have to be willing to show up and do the work right i'm not a traditional talk therapist i'm not a counselor.

00:51:18.120 --> 00:51:27.000 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: In that regard, where we just go we're going to do a lot of talking and that's it right you're going to be doing a lot of learning you're going to do a lot of processing and it is deep work, and I say that it is.

00:51:28.020 --> 00:51:30.450 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: It is simple, but it's not easy.

00:51:30.750 --> 00:51:31.590 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Sure right.

00:51:31.770 --> 00:51:40.590 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And so you really have to be willing to show up and do it, you really have to be, allow me to push you when when necessary right i'm your coach that's that's my job, and so.

00:51:40.950 --> 00:51:41.790 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: we'd love love.

00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:43.140 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know i'm also.

00:51:45.240 --> 00:51:56.460 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Pretty rigorous, you know with my clients about about making sure that they're doing what they said they were going to do, and having each session be valuable and having each session, be a step forward right so.

00:51:57.870 --> 00:52:06.840 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Obviously there's situations and circumstances, but overall, you know I really encourage my clients to not work with me until they are ready to actually do the work.

00:52:07.230 --> 00:52:16.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: hmm sounds fair enough, you know I mean you want to make sure they're actually getting the benefit of the assistance and doing their partner on the in this heavy lifting that.

00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:21.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: i'm sure they didn't ask I didn't ask for, but they're now called upon to do.

00:52:22.020 --> 00:52:31.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah I think that's all great stuff and I think we can take a lot out of this for employers as well to recognize that.

00:52:31.410 --> 00:52:42.390 Eric Sarver, Esq.: They can hire someone like yourself as a grief counselor maps to guide them with the training that they can send their employees out, you know, once you get the help they need.

00:52:43.290 --> 00:52:48.120 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think this is great, you know stuff to hear you know because I know there are people that do.

00:52:48.570 --> 00:52:58.650 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Well, each deal with people who have climate lobby with their practice and do with coach counseling but what do you do it's a little unique and it's good to hear that from you and your own words.

00:52:59.580 --> 00:53:09.120 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So this is a timely issue you know lighten the pandemic and I think in the beginning of Kobe 19 that people weren't giving themselves much more space.

00:53:09.510 --> 00:53:15.000 Eric Sarver, Esq.: and employers were to let's let's get through this new was just you know gets it up and show on the best we can.

00:53:15.450 --> 00:53:31.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And then I think, like many, maybe, perhaps a metaphor for grief it got to a point where people were saying okay well that's enough of that you know we're all vaccinated and now we're back to normal and it's just not a light switch right they can turn on this it's not really reports.

00:53:33.180 --> 00:53:35.610 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: I think so many people wish it was right.

00:53:35.640 --> 00:53:40.110 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Like if you will get your turn it off and be like today i'm good you know from now on i'm good.

00:53:40.410 --> 00:53:43.620 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: For now, and I think the idea of going back to normal is.

00:53:44.730 --> 00:53:46.350 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: unrealistic at best.

00:53:46.620 --> 00:53:54.180 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, like I think there's a lot of lot of ripple effects that we are not going to see are only just starting to see right now.

00:53:54.840 --> 00:54:01.710 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: that are going to you know carry on for quite a while, so I think the idea of just like getting over it, or going back to normal, you know.

00:54:02.220 --> 00:54:08.820 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: And and kind of pretending that none of this happened or or pretending that I should be good, right now, because.

00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:19.740 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know we've gone this far we've gotten this for whatever it is, you know I think those are again some platitudes that that really don't apply, you know when it comes to the human experience and.

00:54:20.430 --> 00:54:28.140 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: If we can be more patient and more realistic, you know, I think, in the end we're probably doing everybody a great service.

00:54:29.460 --> 00:54:44.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: attends are agreeing and speaking of services and your services, I think we have about three minutes left why don't you take about a minute and a half or so, to share how people can contact you any webinars we have upcoming events or and the floor is yours.

00:54:45.690 --> 00:54:47.130 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Oh, thank you, thank you so much well.

00:54:48.030 --> 00:54:59.040 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: First of all, if anybody wants to reach out, they can go to my website harper light coaching calm and from there, they can set up a one on 130 minute complimentary session, you know, and that would be.

00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:06.420 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Either somebody who's going through grief specifically and they want to check in more about what coaching is like, and you know how I can support them.

00:55:06.720 --> 00:55:13.650 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Or if that's somebody who's interested in offering the grief training, you know sensitivity training to their employees and we can talk about what that looks like and.

00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:25.380 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: You know, and hopefully set up a at least one session right that's going to support your clients or your employees so reach out to me there you know i've got a number of different things going on.

00:55:26.430 --> 00:55:39.330 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: In terms of healing circles and group programs group coaching programs, so if anybody's interested again just reach out to me via the website and i'll share more about that information and make sure that it's a good fit depending on what their needs are.

00:55:40.860 --> 00:55:50.280 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Excellent wonderful well Thank you so much that this dream i'll just and people can again go to their website harbor like coaching calm.

00:55:51.000 --> 00:56:01.920 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I will say that you're listening to or watching one blog today and, if you like, the topic feel free to write in the comments and contribute and also if you'd like to show you can tune in.

00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:12.000 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Tuesday nights 5pm to 6pm Eastern standard time and we have three guests have talked about these very important issues to employers and business owners.

00:56:13.140 --> 00:56:19.890 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Once again we're on target radio nyc at Facebook live stream or the website target nyc.

00:56:20.310 --> 00:56:34.800 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Calm so want to thank you so much, once again, this Rien Ahmed folks from Harvard like coaching and thank you for joining us, thank you for sharing your experience, wisdom and I really appreciate your condition tonight.

00:56:35.850 --> 00:56:37.980 Nesreen @ Harbor Light Coaching: Thank you, thank you so much, I hope this was helpful.

00:56:38.490 --> 00:56:49.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah I think it might be was many guests so wishing everyone out there, a good rest of the weekend that evening and again, you can find out more about the show.

00:56:49.650 --> 00:57:04.230 Eric Sarver, Esq.: ads you know targeted nyc or savoured se rv our dashboard calm and the resources, but we talked about reaching the workplace and couple is helpful and I think with that word at our end so have a great evening, thank you.

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