On this week's show we will take a historic stroll along two storied, and at times notorious downtown avenues: The Bowery and Allen Street.
My guests will be Joyce Gold, Founder of Joyce Gold History Tours, and Bob Brenner, Founder of Pig Feet Walking Tours.
Tune in for this fascinating conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.
Joyce gold is a tour guide who for the past 40 years has lead private tours as well as group tours through New York’s City streets. She is also a published writer, with books such as From truck street to Bohemia, and From Windmills to the World Trade Center: Lower Manhattan, a Walking Guide Through History. Joyce Love for New York city streets began in the mid-70s when she discovered a 100 year old guidebook. That helped paint a picture of New York rich history. Today we were taking a look at the battery, A street that Got its name from Dutch settlers. During the 19 century the battery became Posh up-and-coming place, But when the Civil War came It’s crime had increased and become a place where people were told not to go, but that didn’t stop it from being a melting pot for different ethnicities to gather with Irish on the east and German on the west. The battery was becoming a place where people wanted to be with its diverse theaters and shopping areas.
During the 1890s Bowery became a please where the LGBT Community would gather. For social environment. Sailors also gathered at the battery to get tattooed as it became a hotspot where tattoo shops would open up. Tattooing got banned in New York from 1962 to 1967 because of fear of hepatitis being spread by needles. As the battery became a place for the misfits of New York it was also the birthplace of the YMCA in 1978. The Barry mission was an Organization to help the New Yorkers Who were down and out people whether it was food or providing clothing. 1920 affected the battery as it lost much of its Business to the prohibition as it was no longer the only place with bars and clubs, and because of that it became known as the battery bum, For many decades, But the Bowery is up and coming as They open up hotels and art galleries which is a clear sign of it the rebirth of the Bowery.
Robert Brenner is also a Tour guide who started pig feet walking tours in 2015 because he wasn’t able to Find towards the cater to his interest so he started his own. Bob has created tours for the Historic district council and New York public library and Many more. Robert is not a native New Yorker, he grew up in Nyack New York , but that in no way Lessons his love for the city, As he began exploring the city as a young teen in the 1970s. Bob takes us to a trip down memory lane as he talks about the rich history of Allen Street. Which got his name from a famous battle that took place in 1874 naming it after War Hero. By the 1830s it was a very prosperous place for the upper middle class, But that all changed when the elevator train made its way to Allen Street.
The train made Allen Street an definitive Street for Dive bars Prostitution. . It is very diverse with many different people lining the streets with its Greek and Romanian Jews. Bob came up with the Name for pigs feet walking tour from his adventurous eating as he sampled many different styles of pig feet. His include Times Square in the 1970s and Tenderloin in the 1890s, he’s also doing a tour of Yorktown in 1930 when it was a Center for naughty activity. Because of Covid he is now doing ventures virtually. on January 15 he will be doing a webinar of New York City in the 1970s, Time Square, Canal Street, and much more.
00:00:43.080 --> 00:00:44.400 Jeff Goodman: Hello everyone.
00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:51.840 Jeff Goodman: Welcome to our listeners of the Big Apple from across the US and around the world. I'm Jeff Goodman and you've tuned into rediscovering New York
00:00:52.530 --> 00:01:01.200 Jeff Goodman: It's good to be back on the program. We took a couple of weeks off for the holidays, but it's the first week of the new year and we are here, back in the studio at least virtually
00:01:02.070 --> 00:01:08.460 Jeff Goodman: Professionally I am a real estate broker with brown Harris Stevens, and as my listeners know I love New York
00:01:09.210 --> 00:01:24.960 Jeff Goodman: rediscovering New York as a weekly program about the history texture and vibe of our amazing city and we do it through interviews with historians local business owners tour operators nonprofit organizations preservationists local musicians and artists in the occasional elected official
00:01:26.010 --> 00:01:33.990 Jeff Goodman: On some shows we focus on an individual New York neighborhood we explore its history and its current energy. What makes that particular New York neighborhood special
00:01:34.710 --> 00:01:40.260 Jeff Goodman: And on some shows we host episodes about an interesting and vital color. The city in its history.
00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:47.970 Jeff Goodman: That's not focused on one particular neighborhood prior episodes have included topics as diverse and exciting and illuminating
00:01:48.510 --> 00:01:54.240 Jeff Goodman: As American presidents who came from lived in. We're had some interesting history here in New York, about half of them to believe it or not.
00:01:54.960 --> 00:02:00.750 Jeff Goodman: Including the soon to be former president the history of women activists and the women's suffrage movement in the city.
00:02:01.380 --> 00:02:06.660 Jeff Goodman: We've looked at the history of African Americans in the city. They've actually been here since the time, but the Dutch
00:02:07.350 --> 00:02:18.270 Jeff Goodman: We looked at the history of the city's LGBT community, the gay rights movement, we've explored the history of bicycles and cycling. We've looked at the history of punk and Opera in New York. Those were separate shows
00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:27.120 Jeff Goodman: We've looked at our public library systems, New York, being the great place that we are, we don't have one or two. We have three public library systems.
00:02:27.660 --> 00:02:33.390 Jeff Goodman: We've looked at some of our greatest train stations and even some of our bridges. Yes, New York has fabulous bridges everybody
00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:40.530 Jeff Goodman: After the broadcast each show is available on podcast. You can hear us on Apple Spotify SoundCloud Stitcher and other services.
00:02:41.100 --> 00:02:46.950 Jeff Goodman: Tonight we're doing a little bit of a hybrid. We're not really looking at a neighborhood would looking at two streets two streets in downtown
00:02:47.370 --> 00:02:55.110 Jeff Goodman: One is the famous Bowery, and the other is a little less well known, except for the people who live in New York. And that's Allen Street. They're all both downtown
00:02:56.400 --> 00:03:02.400 Jeff Goodman: My first guest is no stranger to rediscovering New York it's returning guests Joyce gold.
00:03:03.180 --> 00:03:12.660 Jeff Goodman: Of choice cold history tours choices, a recognized expert and educator in New York history and for over 40 years has been guarding New Yorkers and visitors alike to rave reviews.
00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:22.530 Jeff Goodman: Through private walking towards as well as towards open to the public choices published to guidebooks from windmills to the World Trade Center or walking guide through the history of Lower Manhattan.
00:03:23.100 --> 00:03:27.840 Jeff Goodman: And from trout stream to Bohemia, a walking guide through the history of Greenwich Village.
00:03:28.530 --> 00:03:37.800 Jeff Goodman: Choices contributed entries to the Encyclopedia of New York City and if all this wasn't enough. The New York Times has called Joyce quote the doyen of new york city tour guides
00:03:38.130 --> 00:03:45.300 Jeff Goodman: A level of recognition that any tour guide would relish and we welcome choice back to rediscovering New York. Welcome back. Joyce.
00:03:45.600 --> 00:03:47.400 Joyce Gold: Thanks, Jeff. It's great to be here.
00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:48.330 Jeff Goodman: And Happy New Year.
00:03:48.660 --> 00:03:49.230 Joyce Gold: Same to you.
00:03:50.160 --> 00:03:52.320 Jeff Goodman: You're not originally from New York, are you
00:03:53.100 --> 00:04:03.870 Joyce Gold: Know, just to marry my presentation. I'd like to say I'm from a settle in Azerbaijan, but that would not be true. I'm from a small town in Pennsylvania Hazleton Pa.
00:04:04.980 --> 00:04:13.320 Jeff Goodman: How did you get involved in the work you do specifically bringing new york's history to life for the people who were lucky enough to to go on your tours.
00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:20.220 Joyce Gold: Well by the mid 1970s. I was a computer analyst at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York downtown
00:04:20.760 --> 00:04:27.300 Joyce Gold: And I just picked up an old book hundred year old guidebook of New York about 100 years earlier than that.
00:04:28.020 --> 00:04:34.680 Joyce Gold: And it was just fabulous because it talked about streets 17th and 18th century is that I walked
00:04:35.310 --> 00:04:42.150 Joyce Gold: Through every day between the subway in my office. So it started making new york much more interesting to me.
00:04:42.810 --> 00:04:54.660 Joyce Gold: Places that I walked, I began to see in terms of levels of time. I could imagine, what does it look like when the Native Americans were there when the Dutch were there when the British were there, etc.
00:04:55.170 --> 00:05:06.240 Joyce Gold: And I thought that that approach would be very interesting to other people who lived in New York. So that's when I started reading and I've been really, really reading and studying ever since.
00:05:07.980 --> 00:05:23.040 Jeff Goodman: That takes us to the Bowery, the famous Bowery it conjures up all kinds of images, we're going to talk about its history. But the first thing I wanted to ask you is, how did the street get its name. And why is it called the Bowery, it's kind of like of the Bronx.
00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:26.130 Joyce Gold: That's exactly right. And for somewhat similar reasons.
00:05:27.210 --> 00:05:40.080 Joyce Gold: The bower Bowery is the Dutch word for farm and in the early 1600s, or mid 1600s along it were farms have some of New York's old families.
00:05:40.470 --> 00:05:54.180 Joyce Gold: And the Bowery went as far as the present weapons Street, which was the farm the Bowery of Peter Stuyvesant, our last Dutch company. He will for the last 18 of the 40 years
00:05:54.540 --> 00:06:00.690 Joyce Gold: And so it came. It had a couple of slightly different names. It was called the Bowery row would
00:06:01.260 --> 00:06:20.640 Joyce Gold: It was called the Bowery lane and then an 1811 when the grid plan of streets was planned for future. The future city of Manhattan of New York. That's when they changed it to the Bowery, but because the article had appeared on the previous two names they kept it
00:06:21.900 --> 00:06:28.650 Jeff Goodman: It's one of the. It's one of the biggest streets in downtown and when was the Bowery is a street first laid out when we
00:06:28.890 --> 00:06:34.710 Joyce Gold: See this thing because for many years. It was the only uptown downtown St. Surprisingly, I think.
00:06:34.950 --> 00:06:46.350 Joyce Gold: It predates Broadway as a street and it was the main road to get to downtown, which was basically where all the action of the city was especially during the Dutch 40 years
00:06:47.280 --> 00:06:53.100 Jeff Goodman: Was there anything along the Bowery in colonial times, aside from just farms, would we have seen anything
00:06:53.850 --> 00:07:01.800 Joyce Gold: Well, it was the place for the first free blacks to live in the city. Some of them lived in what is now Greenwich Village.
00:07:02.250 --> 00:07:12.360 Joyce Gold: But in 61st blacks comments 1626 two years after the Dutch arrived and 18 years later, some of them are given what's called have freedom.
00:07:12.690 --> 00:07:26.490 Joyce Gold: They were free their children weren't and along the Bowery was where some of them live. So that's some of the earliest people that we know to have been there. There was also a big mill believe it was Bernards mill.
00:07:27.270 --> 00:07:36.600 Joyce Gold: That helped make wheat for the community as well. So there were different things going on there was a rope walk some time and some point, for example.
00:07:36.930 --> 00:07:53.460 Joyce Gold: If they made rope. They needed a kind of a straight away to do it. And that was one of the things that happened early on, on the Broadway. It had started actually as the LEAP escapes path. It was an Indian path for basically the uptown Indians.
00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:56.640 Joyce Gold: It's also. Oh yes, I'm sorry.
00:07:56.850 --> 00:07:57.420 Jeff Goodman: No. No, go ahead.
00:07:58.080 --> 00:08:00.510 Joyce Gold: Sorry. No, no, I just wanted to say that
00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:08.160 Jeff Goodman: You know, one of the things that I find interesting about the barrier is something some streets, if they were laid out later on.
00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:20.730 Jeff Goodman: Their wider were in some streets like the secondary. We're going to talk about was actually widened, but the Bowery just seems like it was it was that it's it's really wide. I wonder why it's it was always that wide.
00:08:21.150 --> 00:08:33.750 Joyce Gold: Well, I think that traffic came through courses and carts and there was just so much activity on it that that's why it was laid out that way, by the way. A SCRATCH THAT ABOUT THE WEEK with speaks path that was something else altogether.
00:08:33.870 --> 00:08:34.260 Okay.
00:08:35.340 --> 00:08:42.210 Joyce Gold: But it's interesting to look at 16th century 17th century maps were the only street up there is the ballet very
00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:42.570 Well,
00:08:43.650 --> 00:08:58.230 Jeff Goodman: Let's fast forward a little bit to the 19th century you. One of the things that I was really interested to learn about was that streets adjacent to the Bowery sort of between helston and maybe fifth street that was considered the richest part of town at one point.
00:08:59.310 --> 00:09:03.150 Joyce Gold: Yes, this is the way things changed in Manhattan everything
00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:10.890 Joyce Gold: Commerce and Industry and residential was all at one part of the southern tip and then
00:09:11.400 --> 00:09:19.230 Joyce Gold: People have means began moving away from all that a little bit to the north and this process went on until the end of the 19th century.
00:09:19.530 --> 00:09:32.220 Joyce Gold: When the island was pretty well covered over so it was the Astor family john Jacob pastor and his brother, Henry, who owned the number, a lot of property in that area. So it's considered very posh.
00:09:33.930 --> 00:09:47.940 Jeff Goodman: We're going to go past that. But I do you want to mention one thing about that time is the neighborhood changed, and most of the families moved uptown one family stayed there long past the time that it was fashionable. Those are the treadmills
00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:58.440 Jeff Goodman: The fact there's there's a great house which which is beautiful. And to me, looks like it has all of its original detail on the facade that's now called the merchants house museum.
00:09:59.580 --> 00:10:08.730 Jeff Goodman: It's on East Fourth Street and Gertrude Treadwell who was born in 1840 she actually died in that house in 1933
00:10:09.210 --> 00:10:22.590 Jeff Goodman: And one of the great things about it is that it's the only house in the city old house that's open to the public that has all of its original furniture. It's almost like going into a time capsule. Even the rugs, it's it's really remarkable to go in there. I love visiting
00:10:22.830 --> 00:10:28.650 Joyce Gold: Yeah, the daughters are always said let's leave it the way it was it father's time so they changed their little
00:10:29.760 --> 00:10:38.520 Jeff Goodman: Um, let's move toward the time of the Civil War, when the Bowery became more of a place of entertainment. What would people have found along the street back in those days.
00:10:38.730 --> 00:10:48.990 Joyce Gold: Well, there were shooting parlors where you tried to shoot a moving kind of image of an animal, and you would get up things for that you would get rewards for that.
00:10:49.410 --> 00:10:59.130 Joyce Gold: There was increasingly more crime in the Bowery, I have an 18 copy of an 1870s guidebook and also an 1890s guidebook.
00:10:59.580 --> 00:11:05.400 Joyce Gold: And it's, it's more warnings in the 1890s on guidebook about why you shouldn't go there.
00:11:05.790 --> 00:11:28.050 Joyce Gold: There was all kinds of music. Now one thing that I find so fascinating about the Bowery which almost makes it an image of the city at large is that it was a for very long time, a division between different ethnic groups, the 1860s and 70s. It was basically Irish on the east side and
00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:43.140 Joyce Gold: And something else on the west side I'm blocking on that. By the 1890s. What had been Irish became Italian and it was German on the west side in the west of the Bowery
00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:58.470 Joyce Gold: Earlier on, and then by the 1890s, what had become GERMAN What have been German become Jewish and so there's such a mix of cultures that there's theater. There are many kinds of theater that appear on the Bowery
00:11:59.040 --> 00:12:12.090 Joyce Gold: Some of it was Ethernet. There was your dish dish theater, beginning in the 1880s, they are first place in the country to have your dish theater after last Eastern Europe, you had Italian theater Chinese theater.
00:12:12.630 --> 00:12:24.330 Joyce Gold: It was really quite wonderful. But you even had classical theatre, you had Shakespeare performed, especially at the Bowery theater. And it was just such a wonderful mix of things.
00:12:25.170 --> 00:12:27.180 Jeff Goodman: Vote feel get it start around the battery.
00:12:27.690 --> 00:12:42.360 Joyce Gold: Yes it did the Bowery was kind of a rough and tumble area for entertainment, but not too far north of it, say 10th Street and Broadway was the shopping district called the ladies smile of New York.
00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:54.480 Joyce Gold: Basically from about the 1870s 80s and 90s and one of the showman of the Bowery decided that he wanted to attract all the women that went to shop there.
00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:10.350 Joyce Gold: Was called the ladies mile because it was basically stores for women, men shocked north of that. And so he wanted to start a new kind of theater called Waterville where there was no swearing. There was no off color language or
00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:11.970 Jeff Goodman: Oregon other words not
00:13:13.140 --> 00:13:14.370 Jeff Goodman: Boring and other words not
00:13:14.490 --> 00:13:17.820 Joyce Gold: Paid for men, perhaps for women and their children.
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:28.350 Joyce Gold: And so that's where it all started. It was it was a combination of many different kinds of acts, though it could be an animal act, there could be all kinds of other things. And it was very appealing and
00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:41.250 Jeff Goodman: We're going to take a break in a minute. I have one question, though, you're talking about the ladies mile and and about retail. Was there a store that got it started the Bowery with 150 years ago that's still in New York today that's
00:13:41.310 --> 00:13:42.210 Jeff Goodman: Most people's or no.
00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:56.790 Joyce Gold: Yes, it happens to be one of my favorite stores Hammacher Schlemmer. It's now on 57th Street but hammock or was from Germany. And so it was started on the Bowery, it's a place of wonderful unusual kinds of items.
00:13:57.180 --> 00:14:08.250 Jeff Goodman: Um, well, we're going to take a short break and when we come back we're going to continue our conversation with Joyce gold in this double episode about downtown streets, the Bowery, and Alice tree will be back in a moment.
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:44.130 Jeff Goodman: We're back to rediscovering New York and this episode about two special downtown streets in Manhattan, the Bowery and Allen Street. They were a little notorious in their time for different reasons.
00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:55.260 Jeff Goodman: My first guest is returning guests Joyce gold of choice called history tours Joyce, of course, people in your business, like most of us have been impacted very much independent
00:16:55.710 --> 00:17:05.220 Jeff Goodman: But you are now back to giving private tours. Are there any ones, particularly that are coming up in the near future and that you're especially fond of that you'd like to share with our listeners.
00:17:06.120 --> 00:17:16.920 Joyce Gold: Well, I've taken this opportunity, not having as many tourists and so I usually have to design new routes and the very newest I think you've heard is Fort Greene in Brooklyn.
00:17:17.550 --> 00:17:37.230 Joyce Gold: I was asked to do it for years. And finally realized that I should find out more about what I've been rejecting and it is a fascinating neighborhood. So I'm really looking forward to giving that to people to real people, not just my neighbors. And that's my newest one
00:17:38.130 --> 00:17:38.940 Jeff Goodman: Well, I wonder who
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:40.380 Jeff Goodman: Proud of you to do that one.
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:42.330 Joyce Gold: green shirt.
00:17:43.530 --> 00:17:52.050 Jeff Goodman: Please denied Joyce if if our listeners wanted to find out more about your tours, where to see your images, maybe on Instagram. How could they do that.
00:17:52.800 --> 00:18:05.190 Joyce Gold: Well, my website is choice gold history tours.com and I lead over 40 different routes 40 different neighborhoods I merrily Manhattan, but also Brooklyn.
00:18:05.550 --> 00:18:12.690 Joyce Gold: And they can see what's possible in terms of a private tour which I'm offering right now. Private tours two groups of
00:18:13.050 --> 00:18:32.340 Joyce Gold: You know, up to 10 people to keep it nice and safe. I think in the end the summer, though, I'll be offering my public walking tours and people can just email me with their email address and when that schedule is ready. I'll be sure to get it to them. So it's joints gold history tours com
00:18:32.760 --> 00:18:36.360 Jeff Goodman: I have to say, from personal experience your private tours are great.
00:18:37.410 --> 00:18:51.660 Jeff Goodman: Not that you intended it this way, you did a new tour about Jewish history in downtown New York and it was a blustery day and I was the only one who showed up and I couldn't believe I had 100% of your attention on that. That was a THAT WAS A That was a tour to remember
00:18:51.900 --> 00:19:07.830 Joyce Gold: So I love to do private tours, because I'm able to pitch it to the particular interests of that private group. It could be an ethnic history or religious history and neighborhood history and it allows me to bring some variety and then when I usually do.
00:19:08.670 --> 00:19:11.970 Jeff Goodman: Speaking about variety. Let's go back to the Bowery, and it's a
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.730 Jeff Goodman: Variety of entertainment back in the 1890s.
00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:16.530 Jeff Goodman: Who was big Tim Sullivan.
00:19:17.190 --> 00:19:24.600 Joyce Gold: Well, big, you know, there was a boss run part of the Democratic Party in New York for many years and it was called Tammany Hall.
00:19:25.110 --> 00:19:33.480 Joyce Gold: Different people in Tammany Hall, pretty much control everything that happened in a neighborhood and big Tim Sullivan and controlled the Bowery
00:19:34.020 --> 00:19:51.330 Joyce Gold: He very generously gave people help if they had hard times. He brought gifts to people if they had a wedding or if at a funeral. He would give them rides on the Hudson River and you know you were supposed to vote early and often for Tammany Hall.
00:19:52.590 --> 00:19:54.390 Joyce Gold: So that was big Tim Sullivan.
00:19:55.560 --> 00:20:02.790 Jeff Goodman: did Mozart have a connection to the berry. You would think that that that Mozart of the battery would go along but but I heard there was some, you know,
00:20:03.570 --> 00:20:04.080 Jeff Goodman: Going on.
00:20:04.530 --> 00:20:10.470 Joyce Gold: Well, not sites wonderful operas. He did the music, of course, but then Lorenzo aponte
00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:20.400 Joyce Gold: Did the lyrics for it all and Lorenzo de Pont a lift on the Bowery in the 1820s and 30s, I believe he pedaled fruit.
00:20:20.760 --> 00:20:28.530 Joyce Gold: And did not make a lot of money doing that, but he became friendly with the son of the head of Columbia University and
00:20:28.950 --> 00:20:46.530 Joyce Gold: Thereby got a job as the first professor of the Italian language in New York. So it's so interesting to hear the guy who wrote the words for Don Giovanni. And many of Mozart's other other works was peddling fruit right downtown
00:20:46.890 --> 00:20:52.590 Jeff Goodman: You found his life in the Bowery, I love that, right, or the libretto to Don Giovanni. In the
00:20:52.590 --> 00:21:06.420 Joyce Gold: Barrel that interests me so much about the bower each of me. It's the most diverse contrasting street in town, you still have up rather poor immigrant people largely Asian American people there.
00:21:06.780 --> 00:21:20.250 Joyce Gold: And you have some of the newest things happening and in even in its history, as we're talking about it. You have down and out things and you have people who are prosperous like the asteroids and Lorenzo de basanti with this fruit stick
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:32.910 Jeff Goodman: They have to the Bowery when town started to get to the more distributable adjectives. You still had uptown people and tourists come to the Bowery, why did they come. What did they come for
00:21:32.970 --> 00:21:41.820 Joyce Gold: Well then, like things that they can't get home, whether it's uptown or out of town, and people did strange things they had, they
00:21:42.210 --> 00:21:49.680 Joyce Gold: It was crooked. It wasn't crooked. It was colorful. They had all of these performances. They had a mix of people
00:21:50.100 --> 00:21:55.500 Joyce Gold: And that was something that you didn't get so much elsewhere. So those were some of the things they came for.
00:21:56.100 --> 00:22:08.790 Joyce Gold: You know, there's a very famous song called the Bowery that came out in the 1890s, and it's a song about a tourist in New York and I think it really tells it all of the 1890s on the block.
00:22:09.630 --> 00:22:14.850 Joyce Gold: He said, Everybody said don't go to the Bowery go to Broadway, but there was the Bowery
00:22:15.270 --> 00:22:25.830 Joyce Gold: So with lights and I had one of the devil's own nights and everything that could happen to you know it's like the movie The out of towners with jack Lemmon everything that could happen to him happen to him.
00:22:26.760 --> 00:22:38.520 Joyce Gold: Everything from he wasn't he wasn't an option, and he wanted to buy socks. And the guy said, How much for the box. So he outbid the other bitters, and he only got the box. There were no socks in it wouldn't. Got it. And
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:47.910 Joyce Gold: When he was getting his haircut and the barber talk too much. And he said, cut it out and the guy cut off all its air and, you know, terrible things
00:22:48.990 --> 00:22:55.500 Jeff Goodman: Was, you know, you mentioned people going to places where they can get things when I asked you a moment about about sailors.
00:22:56.280 --> 00:23:03.540 Jeff Goodman: Already a really wonderful friend of mine, I think, whom you've met his name is Jan Ewing, he was in the Navy in the 60s AND HE WAS AN OFFICER.
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:17.160 Jeff Goodman: And he used to go around. He used to sort of supervise the Marines. The MP, is it points of call and he said all the sailors were told by their offices were not to go and of course they all went
00:23:18.510 --> 00:23:18.810 Jeff Goodman: You know,
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.420 Jeff Goodman: Especially in Naples, I won't tell you some of the things he
00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:23.190 Jeff Goodman: told me they were saw on the street there but
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:35.040 Jeff Goodman: I was really also pleased to learn. Not too long ago that the Bowery was a place in the 1890s were gay and lesbian people went to hang out to entertain themselves and be around each other and businesses in a social environment.
00:23:36.060 --> 00:23:44.430 Jeff Goodman: And why did Sandler's go to the Bowery, and what was it about the Bowery that had so many tattoo businesses, open up there.
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:53.220 Joyce Gold: Yes, some advances in the tattoo business happened there. And it was also only a couple of blocks from the East River where a lot of sailors docked.
00:23:53.550 --> 00:23:59.160 Joyce Gold: And they heard it was colorful and they heard that, you know, things happen there that didn't have any place else.
00:23:59.670 --> 00:24:05.490 Joyce Gold: And so tattooing was a sign of what they wanted to basically were on their arms on the ships.
00:24:05.910 --> 00:24:23.880 Joyce Gold: But one of my favorite stories about that is that that that tattoo parlors got a lot of business when the feds say we will not allow nude women on the arms of our site or US sailors. So all this hours had to go to get the tattoos covered over with clothing.
00:24:26.190 --> 00:24:26.790 Joyce Gold: Business
00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:34.320 Jeff Goodman: I want to fast forward a little done a related question not specifically related to the value of it about tattoos New York City ban tattooing.
00:24:34.650 --> 00:24:37.140 Jeff Goodman: From the 1964 to 1997
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.420 Jeff Goodman: Why, what was the reason for that.
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:50.970 Joyce Gold: Well they feared hepatitis from the needles and so it was a health issue and I guess they did something about it. I imagine they made sure that the needles were clean and, of course, now it's it's the rage.
00:24:51.600 --> 00:24:57.930 Jeff Goodman: Well, speaking of sailors and gay and lesbian people the first YMCA started on the Bowery didn't
00:24:57.930 --> 00:25:15.870 Joyce Gold: Yes. Did in the 1880s in a building that's just gorgeous. Though the YMCA. I think started in New York because country boys would come to town to the big bad city and they wanted a good Christian place for them not to go astray. I think that's how it became popular
00:25:16.470 --> 00:25:19.530 Jeff Goodman: And thanks to the village people we know how popular really
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:21.660 Jeff Goodman: Coming into the city.
00:25:23.310 --> 00:25:29.040 Jeff Goodman: Do you want to talk at all about the Bowery mission and what it how it was founded and were moved to
00:25:29.550 --> 00:25:40.140 Joyce Gold: Well, the Bowery mission was one of a number of missions on that on or write your that street to give soup or to give clothing or to help
00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:46.650 Joyce Gold: The people who are just down on their luck and down and out. And in some ways, couldn't fall any further down
00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:54.300 Joyce Gold: Often there was some Christian message connected to it. You might get soup. If you listen to the message.
00:25:55.140 --> 00:26:00.690 Joyce Gold: But this was this was what they did. They've now moved to they have a wonderful stained glass.
00:26:01.290 --> 00:26:09.840 Joyce Gold: window on the front of it on the Bowery, and it's the biblical verse of the prodigal son, which I think is right there very heartening
00:26:10.170 --> 00:26:21.240 Joyce Gold: But they now are in Chelsea, they moved the mission to what is it less 29th street or something like that and Much to the consternation of some of the people on that block.
00:26:21.930 --> 00:26:27.660 Jeff Goodman: And were recently after the Second World War, the Bowery developed a reputation for people
00:26:28.620 --> 00:26:34.530 Jeff Goodman: A lot of people around there being down and out. In fact, I can remember when we used to drive from new jersey on the way to the Brooklyn Bridge.
00:26:35.040 --> 00:26:42.240 Jeff Goodman: That always be down and out people, you know, begging for cigarettes begging for change from the car right on Bleecker Street on the corner Bleecker Street in the Bowery
00:26:42.840 --> 00:26:49.920 Jeff Goodman: Right before CB jeebies opened up. I think when, when did that happen on the battery and when did that start to to change.
00:26:50.340 --> 00:27:02.520 Joyce Gold: Well, as I say in the 1880s it was colorful by the 1890s. It was a little more illegal and people were being held up but it really started changing to be something of what it was.
00:27:02.970 --> 00:27:12.870 Joyce Gold: Afterwards in the 1920s 1920s, of course, we have prohibition in the United States and illegal clubs were all over town.
00:27:13.230 --> 00:27:24.030 Joyce Gold: Now, people used to go to the Bowery to drink, but now there were all kinds of other places during Prohibition that they could go and so it lost a lot of their business, you know, all the other
00:27:24.600 --> 00:27:34.350 Joyce Gold: Institutions there and Entertainment's were fed to some extent by the bars that were there earlier. So in the 1920s, it really started deteriorating.
00:27:34.650 --> 00:27:54.390 Joyce Gold: And in the 1930s, with the depression. So many people have lost any money that they had that they started more flocking to that street and that's what it became known for the Bowery ballroom was a New York kind of person. And that was the institution that described it for decades.
00:27:55.320 --> 00:28:06.060 Jeff Goodman: Well, let's talk about the revitalization. We're almost at a time in the couple minutes that we have left you want to talk a little bit about what the Bowery has seen in the last 15 years or so in terms of construction and new institutions.
00:28:06.210 --> 00:28:17.670 Joyce Gold: Yeah, well I think starting from the northern end every time you pass the large cross street. It got a little bit more updated and there's the new museum there.
00:28:18.630 --> 00:28:30.900 Joyce Gold: A very famous of the Atlantic gardens, just below Canal Street Atlantic gardens theater site was recently demolish they even did an archaeological dig there and it's now a brand new hotel.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:39.000 Joyce Gold: You have art galleries art galleries in New York. You know, pardon me, are also often the sign that everything's changing
00:28:39.690 --> 00:28:53.490 Joyce Gold: And becoming more gentrified so it is very much changing, you know, artists often bring other people in to look at the art or to buy the art and then then museums follow. And that's what's been happening on the
00:28:54.630 --> 00:28:59.340 Jeff Goodman: Back. There's a lot of beautiful residential development down there.
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:02.610 Jeff Goodman: Which, by the way, I can show any of our listeners to if they wanted some point
00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:15.120 Jeff Goodman: Choice. It's always great to have you on the show. It's always fascinating to speak to you about your knowledge and your perspective and the color you bring to illuminating the history of this great place that we live in.
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:26.520 Jeff Goodman: Our first guest on this show about to downtown streets has been Joyce gold of choice called history tours. You can read about choices tours at Joyce gold history tours com
00:29:26.910 --> 00:29:35.070 Jeff Goodman: We're going to take a short break and when we come back we're going to speak with our second guest about another famous New York Street Allen street will be back in a moment.
00:31:55.770 --> 00:32:05.250 Jeff Goodman: We're back in your back to rediscovering New York support for the program comes from our sponsors the mark Miami team mortgage strategist at freedom mortgage
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:13.230 Jeff Goodman: For assistance in any kind of residential mortgage mark and his team can be reached at 646-330-4735
00:32:14.010 --> 00:32:21.000 Jeff Goodman: And support also comes from the Law Offices of Thomas the ACA focusing on wills estate planning probate and inheritance litigation.
00:32:21.690 --> 00:32:32.610 Jeff Goodman: Tom and his staff can be reached 22124950317 our show was about New York. It's neighborhoods its history and the myriad textures of this great place
00:32:32.970 --> 00:32:40.830 Jeff Goodman: There's another great show on the air about New York and specifically about the business of real estate. Good morning, New York with Vince Rocco. And my friend and colleague brown Harris.
00:32:41.520 --> 00:32:47.040 Jeff Goodman: Vince's show airs live on Tuesday mornings at 9am you can hear him on voice america.com and also on podcast.
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:53.520 Jeff Goodman: You can like this show on Facebook and you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter. My handles. There are Jeff Goodman NYC.
00:32:54.210 --> 00:33:01.380 Jeff Goodman: If you have comments or questions or if you'd like to get on our mailing list, please email me, Jeff at rediscovering New York dot NYC.
00:33:02.100 --> 00:33:06.570 Jeff Goodman: One of the note before we get to our second guest, even though rediscovering New York is not a show about real estate.
00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:13.380 Jeff Goodman: When I'm not on the air. I am indeed a real estate agent. Now we're amazing city where I help my clients buy sale lease and run property.
00:33:14.130 --> 00:33:25.860 Jeff Goodman: If you or someone you care about is considering a move into active or within New York. I would love to help you with all those real estate needs. You can reach me and my team at 646-306-4761
00:33:26.490 --> 00:33:35.220 Jeff Goodman: Well, our second guest is also in the touring business but a little bit different. And we're going to speak with him also about some of his tours hits Robert Brenner.
00:33:35.970 --> 00:33:44.190 Jeff Goodman: Bob is a new york city tour guide a certified member of the guides association in New York City and a lifelong New York City history buff and adventurous eater.
00:33:45.150 --> 00:33:52.830 Jeff Goodman: Bob started PIG FEET walking tours in 2014 because he was not able to find towards that covered the subjects that he was personally interested in
00:33:53.610 --> 00:34:02.070 Jeff Goodman: Since creating the company. He's led walking tours and created tours for a whole coterie of organizations, including the Historic District Council of which I'm a member
00:34:02.340 --> 00:34:18.030 Jeff Goodman: James walk the municipal art Society of New York and the New York Public Library, as well as many others is published works have appeared in New York Magazine. The Huffington Post salon and many other publications Bob Brenner a hearty welcome to rediscovering New York
00:34:18.690 --> 00:34:20.730 Bob Brenner: Audi and thanks for having me on.
00:34:21.090 --> 00:34:23.130 Jeff Goodman: My pleasure. It's always great to have people
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.100 Jeff Goodman: Who are passionate about sharing this great city with other people on
00:34:26.160 --> 00:34:29.730 Bob Brenner: Yeah choices are going to be tough act to follow. Si, si, si does her stuff.
00:34:30.120 --> 00:34:38.850 Jeff Goodman: I think you'll do just fine, especially with the content and some of the questions that have lined up for you. I'm homeless, where the heart is and you live in Chelsea now. Are you from New York originally
00:34:39.120 --> 00:34:44.340 Bob Brenner: No, no, I was, I was born. And much to my shame. I was born and raised in Nyack New York
00:34:45.870 --> 00:34:46.110 Jeff Goodman: Pretty
00:34:46.770 --> 00:34:54.570 Bob Brenner: Nice. Well, it's nice time but I remember distinctly the day, my parents told me they had moved out of the city to raise a family.
00:34:55.050 --> 00:35:06.090 Bob Brenner: I thought that was a stupidest thing I've ever heard. And I spent all my all my early youth trying to get back into the city. I started exploring the city on my own.
00:35:07.170 --> 00:35:15.330 Bob Brenner: The teenage teenager in the mid 1970s and I moved here permanently in the early 1980s, when a lot of people will moving out.
00:35:16.890 --> 00:35:17.670 Bob Brenner: Of life love New York
00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:21.900 Jeff Goodman: Yeah, no, no. Of course you know and and I know your your parents are from the Lower East Side.
00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:28.260 Jeff Goodman: You know, we share that in that I grew up in Manhattan Beach from Brooklyn, but it was in the 70s when I was a teenager.
00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:34.530 Jeff Goodman: That I was able to take the subway and sort of get, you know, an increased level of my freedom and it was a tough time in New York.
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:42.420 Jeff Goodman: But you know when you're a kid and growing up, all you remember is the is the access and the good things in the adventures, so we we share that
00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:52.710 Jeff Goodman: How did you first get interested in creating tours that were really unusual, compared to what other people offer, and we'll talk a little bit about some of those a little later on in the program.
00:35:53.010 --> 00:35:56.880 Bob Brenner: Well, I kind of fell into it, really. I met some people from
00:35:57.750 --> 00:36:07.620 Bob Brenner: The Time Square lions and we started talking about what Time Square was like in the 1970s, because they, you know, they seem like Midnight Cowboy and taxi driver, but they
00:36:08.010 --> 00:36:15.000 Bob Brenner: They were there were young people who have not experienced it firsthand. I said, and I started trying to describe it to this. Wait, hold on, I could do a whole tour.
00:36:15.600 --> 00:36:33.330 Bob Brenner: And I could tell you show you exactly what was like and talk about what Time Square. The Real Time Square was like in the in the in the 1970s and from there it just, it just snowballed from there and then each of the tours. I've subsequently developed my own personal interest.
00:36:34.650 --> 00:36:39.570 Bob Brenner: Neighborhoods that I've explored. Back in the day, or had or had other connected to
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:52.620 Jeff Goodman: All right, well I'm gonna ask you about some of your unusual towards little bit later. For now, getting to Alan street Allen's treats a little bit below the Bowery, um, when was it first actually laid out. What was their first street there.
00:36:53.310 --> 00:36:58.050 Bob Brenner: Well, um, you know, it was originally part of the Delancey farm.
00:36:59.670 --> 00:37:22.200 Bob Brenner: But by the beginning of the 19th century, you have Alan street which is named after a famous a war of 1882 David naval hero, and it was at one point that again. But at 13. It's kind of like a prosperous, you know, middle class, upper middle class Street.
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:29.940 Bob Brenner: Until of course the the coming of the dreaded elevated tray and the second avenue out
00:37:30.390 --> 00:37:34.800 Jeff Goodman: What was howling street like right before they built the L Train on Elm Street.
00:37:35.070 --> 00:37:36.750 Jeff Goodman: And that would have been the Second Avenue. Well that right
00:37:36.810 --> 00:37:37.140 Bob Brenner: There. Right.
00:37:38.190 --> 00:37:50.490 Bob Brenner: The second avenue which which the same thing, which is quite strange because Allah Street is first step is ties into first we'll talk about that later. It was a property, it was a it was a prosperous middle class.
00:37:52.140 --> 00:38:01.980 Bob Brenner: Neighborhood the street and then the. And then the second avenue ALCS came and it really came and it really changed everything.
00:38:02.430 --> 00:38:16.230 Bob Brenner: within a generation Allen street was a very different street and I saw that you described in the opening as a famous story. It became an infamous Street, it became the center of the Jewish red light district.
00:38:18.150 --> 00:38:22.980 Jeff Goodman: So what was the thing I heard about if you were being called in by young lady wasn't for it.
00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:32.250 Bob Brenner: Right, right, is a famous, famous God's gonna go see. So if you if you saw a woman beckoning to you on Alan speed. She wasn't calling you to to a minion.
00:38:33.750 --> 00:38:42.960 Bob Brenner: Became filled with what they called cider students, which were, you know, basement dive bars and what they called Colin's
00:38:43.590 --> 00:38:56.760 Bob Brenner: Which was, which was, you know, slang for for prostitutes calendar, of course, is you know this, do that. You keep hot and ready to serve on the Sabbath. You get the idea. Always hot and ready to serve. That's where the slang came from.
00:38:57.300 --> 00:39:01.680 Jeff Goodman: You know, we have we have elevated trains. Now, not in Manhattan will actually that's not true in
00:39:02.100 --> 00:39:09.840 Jeff Goodman: The upper Manhattan, the one train is elevated for a short stretch, but you know there are elevated trains and lots of other parts in the city. And I grew up around them in Brooklyn.
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:23.610 Jeff Goodman: With the Brighton line in Bensonhurst, you see them now and in Brooklyn and Queens. But I took a look at the picture that's on your website of the L Train on Delancey Street. I have never seen a darker Street.
00:39:24.030 --> 00:39:27.450 Jeff Goodman: You know, under, you know, under an L Train before
00:39:27.750 --> 00:39:41.190 Jeff Goodman: Did Allen street changing ways, Bob. After the L Train or was built in ways, different from streets for other old transports and structured like further the second avenue for the uptown. The Third Avenue. Well, the sixth and the Ninth Avenue else
00:39:41.520 --> 00:39:47.400 Bob Brenner: Well, first of all, you have to say. Alice feet was actually one of the narrowest streets in New York City.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:58.080 Bob Brenner: And normally, you would never put an L and elevated train down a narrow street like like Allen street a second avenue el which did go down. Second Avenue.
00:39:58.590 --> 00:40:07.560 Bob Brenner: Was mysteriously rerouted at 23rd STREET. THEY PUT IT. They put it over one block East and it went down. First Avenue and then it went into Allen Street.
00:40:08.040 --> 00:40:23.010 Bob Brenner: And Allen speed was completely covered by the elevator train and it became known as the street where the sun never shines, and it would just existed in perpetual darkness and there is a correlation
00:40:24.150 --> 00:40:31.470 Bob Brenner: Between vice crimes and that kind of that kind of elevated train that totally covers the streets.
00:40:32.490 --> 00:40:41.310 Bob Brenner: They go historians have looked at the data tracking vice arrest and drugs, gambling prostitution.
00:40:42.600 --> 00:40:46.080 Bob Brenner: Some, some pickpocketing and mugging, of course.
00:40:47.670 --> 00:40:53.220 Bob Brenner: You find that all you find that around elevated trains that like totally covered Street, um,
00:40:53.940 --> 00:40:59.790 Jeff Goodman: We're going to talk about the dark side of Alan street history, but first I want to ask you a question about the people who move there.
00:41:00.300 --> 00:41:08.940 Jeff Goodman: before all this happened. Lower East Side was home to hundreds of thousands of German immigrants in the middle of the 19th century, and later in the 19th many Eastern European Jews.
00:41:09.240 --> 00:41:22.650 Jeff Goodman: One thing that was particular about the Lower East Side was that the Jewish immigrants from different places in Europe actually concentrated themselves in parts of the neighborhood where other people from where they were from did we call them landsman you know
00:41:23.670 --> 00:41:30.150 Jeff Goodman: Do we know if there were concentrations of Jewish immigrants along Allen's treat from any specific parts of Europe would you have heard different
00:41:30.150 --> 00:41:30.900 Jeff Goodman: Languages on our
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:39.330 Bob Brenner: Street. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I'm up around Rivington there is a there's a Romanian synagogue mosque synagogue.
00:41:41.070 --> 00:41:45.030 Bob Brenner: anymore it's it's it's it's private. It's a private housing now.
00:41:46.740 --> 00:41:59.490 Bob Brenner: So that was a remaining Jewish center. I'm a little further south. I'm blocking on the cross street now there is a Greek synagogue, which is still in which is still in
00:42:00.600 --> 00:42:01.050 Bob Brenner: Use
00:42:01.830 --> 00:42:02.490 Jeff Goodman: Orchard Street.
00:42:02.790 --> 00:42:06.270 Bob Brenner: Yeah. So look for that African the forget the cross three
00:42:07.290 --> 00:42:15.630 Bob Brenner: But yeah, there were Greek and Romanian Jews and those sections, a balanced Street and and for, for better or worse.
00:42:16.470 --> 00:42:29.220 Bob Brenner: Because they were probably a minority within a minority people will say, oh, you know, those Greek and Romanian Jews, you know, there are there. They're all tied up with the with the with the Vice trade on the analysis Street.
00:42:30.030 --> 00:42:33.600 Jeff Goodman: Well, so not only selling monsters.
00:42:33.930 --> 00:42:35.730 Bob Brenner: Yes, they're selling a few other things possibly
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:44.550 Jeff Goodman: All right, well, we're going to take a short break and when we come back we're going to continue our conversation with Bob Brenner of walking sorry pic feet tour.
00:42:44.910 --> 00:42:50.250 Jeff Goodman: walking towards a pig feet walking tours and I'm gonna ask you about those tours. When we come back. We'll be back in a moment.
00:45:06.660 --> 00:45:15.120 Jeff Goodman: We're back and you're back to rediscovering New York and this episode about the Bowery and Allen's treat my second guest is tour guide Bob Brenner.
00:45:15.570 --> 00:45:25.170 Jeff Goodman: He's the founder and owner of pig feet walking tours, Bob, I gotta ask you the first question about your company, how did you come up with the name it's it's it's certainly original
00:45:25.620 --> 00:45:32.460 Bob Brenner: Oh, and it came up as, you know, kind of, as I said, I'm interested in history and an adventurous eating and then
00:45:33.030 --> 00:45:40.410 Bob Brenner: When I was thinking about walking tours and well i really like pick feet and pick thing is one of the things that cross many different
00:45:41.010 --> 00:45:54.660 Bob Brenner: cuisines. I've had kinase pick up Japanese Dominican French, Spanish, etc, etc. So I said, All right, let's call it pick the walking towards um it's a memorable name is he's stick in people's mind. So I've stuck with it.
00:45:55.980 --> 00:46:02.370 Jeff Goodman: What if you with the chores that you created that you offer that are your favorites. I mean, I'm sure they're all your favorites but
00:46:02.370 --> 00:46:06.390 Bob Brenner: They're all they're all my children. They're all they're all there. They're all
00:46:07.560 --> 00:46:23.160 Bob Brenner: They're all my children, you know, I do. Time Square in the 1970s. Of course I do. I do. The Tenderloin in the in the 18 in the 1890s.
00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:26.460 Bob Brenner: You make sense. It's kind of theme here little holidays.
00:46:26.970 --> 00:46:31.410 Jeff Goodman: Well, we'll have you back on the program where we will have an episode about about that.
00:46:31.560 --> 00:46:44.820 Bob Brenner: What I'm most proud about branching out. I do. I'm doing a tour of Yorkville in the 1930s when York bill was the center of Nazi activity.
00:46:46.650 --> 00:46:57.810 Bob Brenner: You know, I, when I do tours. I like to do things about stuff that people maybe uncomfortable talking about or I don't know that much about. And this is a period that
00:46:59.520 --> 00:47:06.120 Bob Brenner: People, people try to brush over in your head. But I think there's a there's a fascinating part of New York history and
00:47:07.110 --> 00:47:14.130 Bob Brenner: There was lots of pro and anti Nazi activity in that in that neighborhood in that in the run up to World War Two. And I think that's that's the story. They should be told.
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:20.730 Jeff Goodman: Absolutely. We actually a last year and this is on podcast we had an episode about Yorkville and we do talk about
00:47:22.020 --> 00:47:24.780 Jeff Goodman: Nazi sympathizer so and also the Bund which was very
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:29.070 Bob Brenner: Yeah, yeah. The German American been had their headquarters on the east 85th Street that's
00:47:29.310 --> 00:47:31.770 Bob Brenner: Like all of this. That's the whole episode, though.
00:47:32.370 --> 00:47:36.480 Jeff Goodman: I'm, I'm, I guess you're offering some online programming that as well.
00:47:36.990 --> 00:47:41.850 Bob Brenner: Right, right. Well actually writing right now basically table. My, my physical touring
00:47:42.990 --> 00:47:54.390 Bob Brenner: For the duration, you know, once once the vaccine because widely distributed revaluate but I've been doing webinars for New York adventure club a method to have two webinars.
00:47:55.590 --> 00:47:56.160 Bob Brenner: Coming up
00:47:57.780 --> 00:48:07.020 Bob Brenner: In January, on January 15 I will be doing New York City in the 1970s and 1980s, a covering.
00:48:08.070 --> 00:48:17.700 Bob Brenner: You Time Square Canal Street Lori side Greenwich Village and the Meatpacking District, because those were the neighborhoods that
00:48:18.060 --> 00:48:37.500 Bob Brenner: In my misspent youth. I spent a lot of time in those neighborhoods. I'll be talking about that and on January 22 I will be doing a tour of a be doing what I call Nazi New York, they call it war two Homefront spies saboteurs and sympathizers, most of which is
00:48:38.640 --> 00:48:40.740 Bob Brenner: setting yourself. So we have coming up.
00:48:41.430 --> 00:48:44.820 Jeff Goodman: And people can find out about your programming at PIG FEET walking tours com
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:58.650 Bob Brenner: For a GM to pick. They come to me. I pick the walking tours com or on my Facebook page was also called pick the walking tours com and, of course, these two webinars are of course also upon a New York adventure clubs page.
00:48:59.790 --> 00:49:09.300 Jeff Goodman: Well, going to the dark side and the dark side of Alan stream. Let's talk about the the gun battle. There was a famous gunbattle in 1903 along Allen street what happened.
00:49:09.810 --> 00:49:15.180 Bob Brenner: Oh, yes, yes. The, the five pointers versus the the Eastman
00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:23.010 Bob Brenner: This was a running gun battle between two rival street gangs is started.
00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:35.400 Bob Brenner: The northwest corner of house than an allen Street and culminated at at Rivington and house in st and net result.
00:49:36.240 --> 00:49:51.120 Bob Brenner: Two people killed three people wounded, which doesn't sound like a lot to us. Today's a 14 we become we become very jaded about gun violence, we're used to, you know, mass shootings were dozens, if not hundreds of people, but this was like a really big deal back then.
00:49:52.230 --> 00:50:02.370 Bob Brenner: It made all the local news. It made the national news. It made the international news and it really sealed Allen's streets reputation.
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:18.240 Bob Brenner: As you know, a dangerous street a bad street a bad, bad neighborhood. These two gangs involve the five pointers and Eastman they were fighting for control over the vice business on Allen Street.
00:50:20.070 --> 00:50:28.080 Bob Brenner: The five pointers. They were primarily in a tank gang and they control the territory. Most of the west of the Bowery
00:50:29.160 --> 00:50:42.180 Bob Brenner: The Eastman were primarily a Jewish gang and they control most of the territory to the east of the Bowery, and they were having a disagreement about who was going to control Alan's Street.
00:50:42.720 --> 00:50:52.860 Jeff Goodman: Well, let's talk about the Rosen for murder. There was a pretty a grizzly murder gone down on Alan street around this time and they were Jewish gangsters what happened.
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:59.130 Bob Brenner: Well, um, I should say, Herman Rosenthal wasn't actually killed on Alan's street he was murdered.
00:51:00.420 --> 00:51:04.440 Bob Brenner: He was murdered up on 42nd Street, uh, but Turman
00:51:05.550 --> 00:51:08.190 Bob Brenner: He, he ran what's called a status house.
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:15.000 Bob Brenner: And non his wasn't up on on our speakers further, further uptown but impacted on the street.
00:51:15.450 --> 00:51:32.280 Bob Brenner: And stuff. What's his game sometimes called Jewish Pharaoh. I've never played this card game apparently was very popular at the time, and he ran this stuff house and like most people running stuff, hasn't he paid off the cops who look look the other way.
00:51:33.540 --> 00:51:39.660 Bob Brenner: But for some reason, and maybe the cops didn't like him. Maybe there are other brother rival gangsters trying to force him out of his
00:51:40.080 --> 00:51:57.150 Bob Brenner: His status has kept getting raided by the police. And so I set up, you know, I've had it. I'm going to go to the press. I'm going to tell them the whole story. I'm going to go to the district attorney. I'm going to turn states with it. I'm gonna blow the whole lid off the whole rotten.
00:51:58.530 --> 00:52:11.220 Bob Brenner: Jewish gangster police connect in and he was gunned down in the street, before we could testify, he was he was shot multiple times he did he die and
00:52:11.970 --> 00:52:24.930 Bob Brenner: This was frankly huge embarrassment to the Jewish community because just about everyone involved in this incident was Jewish, Roman Rosenthal, the Hitman the getaway car driver.
00:52:26.400 --> 00:52:39.000 Bob Brenner: The rival mobsters with, let's say, put the contract out on Rosenthal. So this was a huge embarrassment to the Jewish community. And this is when they felt like they had to
00:52:39.660 --> 00:52:50.430 Bob Brenner: get tough on Jewish gangsters and try and clamp down on on Jewish advice rackets on the on the Lower East Side, including on especially on Allen Street.
00:52:50.790 --> 00:52:52.890 Jeff Goodman: And who was detective Abraham Schoenfeld
00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:59.040 Bob Brenner: Oh, yes. Do you wake up is detective. First, there was this organization called the healer.
00:53:00.600 --> 00:53:18.120 Bob Brenner: Which basically was trying to bring together all the, all the different sort of you know rival Jewish fact in German Jews Russian Jews religious to secular Jews capitalist tues communist Jews were very fractious bunch
00:53:19.260 --> 00:53:27.870 Bob Brenner: But the key here was for trying to be the brother organization and after the Rosenthal, a murder. They hire Abraham show and failed.
00:53:29.010 --> 00:53:35.430 Bob Brenner: As a detective and basically what he does is he goes undercover, and he starts visiting all these different
00:53:37.560 --> 00:53:50.910 Bob Brenner: brothels and gambling joins whatever and carefully collecting evidence and then turning that over to the Mayor and as a result the closing down a lot of a lot of these businesses.
00:53:52.110 --> 00:53:53.190 Jeff Goodman: Were losing and Maddie.
00:53:53.910 --> 00:53:55.440 Bob Brenner: Oh, Lizzie, Matty. The yes
00:53:56.820 --> 00:54:05.040 Bob Brenner: Before before Rosa before Schoenfeld I close them down. They were the known as the two hardest working whores on the Lower East Side.
00:54:07.860 --> 00:54:20.760 Bob Brenner: If I may put it bluntly, trying keep trying to keep it somewhat clean. I don't know if it's a family show. Um, but yeah Schoenfeld was shocked to discover that they had each been turning
00:54:21.990 --> 00:54:26.100 Bob Brenner: 10 tricks, a day, every day, except for Saturday, of course.
00:54:26.580 --> 00:54:29.430 Jeff Goodman: For like the last Saturday, Saturday.
00:54:31.020 --> 00:54:31.560 Jeff Goodman: Right, right.
00:54:32.580 --> 00:54:35.310 Bob Brenner: And they've been doing this for like 25 years and he
00:54:35.550 --> 00:54:44.910 Bob Brenner: Did the math and they say, oh my god. They've done 50,000 tricks in there in there in there in there in there long and they're long illustrious career.
00:54:47.010 --> 00:54:56.250 Bob Brenner: So you set them down. Yeah, unfortunately, probably came to a bad and as we sit in this. They were probably a confine on on black will island.
00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:11.640 Bob Brenner: And they were probably buried in a pauper's grave on hearts island if hard island never goes forward with their project to make you know to look into the records. I'd like to try and go track track them down.
00:55:12.720 --> 00:55:15.360 Bob Brenner: And see, and see what happened to them.
00:55:16.080 --> 00:55:27.390 Jeff Goodman: Well, we're almost at a time bomb but I want to briefly ask you, Alan street was widened and then also the L Train came down. Did that change the nature of what Alan street was
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:46.620 Bob Brenner: Well you you think it would. But it didn't LSD was widen in 1941 a the second half of the l was torn down and send me. Why did 1931 the second avenue l was torn down in 1942 IS WHEN WAS THE LAST else to come down and Manhattan.
00:55:47.910 --> 00:55:58.470 Bob Brenner: But, and we're even doing on that Alan street still remain a center of the prostitution into the into the 1990s, uh,
00:55:58.890 --> 00:56:03.930 Bob Brenner: The, the Jews and the Titans moved out the Chinese and the Puerto Ricans moved in, but
00:56:04.470 --> 00:56:23.280 Bob Brenner: It was still a you know a immigrant poor immigrant Strieber neighborhood and Allen street was still a center of prostitution mostly streetwalkers and then of course I'm along comes a certain serial killer by the name of Joel Rifkin infamous serial killer.
00:56:24.390 --> 00:56:25.050 Jeff Goodman: Well, it
00:56:26.220 --> 00:56:39.420 Jeff Goodman: Seems like them. What happened on Allen street beginning of the 1990s is similar to what happened on the Bowery, whereas the neighborhood changed for the better. And there was some city projects to beautify the median, Bob, I would love to talk to you more about this, but we're at a time.
00:56:40.980 --> 00:56:46.860 Jeff Goodman: We'll have you back on the show, especially to talk about the tenderloin will have a really juicy, no pun intended episode.
00:56:47.520 --> 00:56:58.410 Jeff Goodman: About that. Well, everyone. Our second guest on the show about the Bowery and Allen Street has been bombed Brenner Bob IS THE FOUNDER AND CREATOR OF PIG FEET walking tours.
00:56:59.370 --> 00:57:05.820 Jeff Goodman: If you have comments or questions about this show would like to get on our mailing list, please email me, Jeff at rediscovering New York that NYC.
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00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:22.350 Jeff Goodman: Once again, I'd like to thank our sponsors the mark mind and team mortgage strategies that freedom mortgage and the law. This is of Tom sciatica focusing on wills estate planning probate and inheritance litigation.
00:57:22.860 --> 00:57:30.270 Jeff Goodman: One more thing before we sign off, I'm Jeff Goodman, a real estate agent did Halstead I'm sorry a brown Harris Stevens now in New York City. We consolidated.
00:57:30.600 --> 00:57:38.640 Jeff Goodman: And whether you're selling, buying leasing or renting including downtown and around Allen Street. My team and I provide the best service and expertise in New York City, real estate.
00:57:39.180 --> 00:57:48.900 Jeff Goodman: To help you with your real estate needs. You can reach us at 646-306-4761 our producers Ralph story or our engineer is Sam Leibowitz
00:57:49.740 --> 00:57:54.390 Jeff Goodman: Our special consultant is David Griffin of landmark branding. Thanks for listening.
00:57:54.570 --> 00:57:55.470 Jeff Goodman: We'll see you next time.