The Edge of Everyday

Monday, November 22, 2021
Facebook Live Video from 2021/11/22 - The Earth on Edge: The Climate Movement with Harriet Shugarman

Facebook Live Video from 2021/11/22 - The Earth on Edge: The Climate Movement with Harriet Shugarman


2021/11/22 - The Earth on Edge: The Climate Movement with Harriet Shugarman

[NEW EPISODE]  The Earth on Edge: The Climate Movement with Harriet Shugarman

Harriet Shugarman is a multiple award-winning author, influencer and connector in the climate movement. Harriet is the Executive Director of ClimateMama, an on-line community she founded in 2009, that reaches individuals in over 110 countries and all 50 states.

As a leader and mentor with The Climate Reality Project, Harriet established the Climate Reality New York City Metro Chapter, and served as its first chair. She was the recipient of the prestigious Climate Reality Alfredo Sirkis Memorial Green Ring Award in 2017 and is also profiled in former US Vice President Al Gore’s book: An Inconvenient Sequel, Truth to Power.

We will talk about her 2020 book: How to Talk to Your Kids About Climate Change, Turning Angst to Action, and the large edge of overwhelm and anxiety for ALL of us in relation to climate change and the actions and adaptations we must take and implement.

Tune in for this edgy conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Today marks the sixth episode of The Edge of Everyday! Bargman gives us a quick direction to find out more about her and where to tune into past episodes, the Talk Radio NYC website, or

Sandra introduces today's guest as Harriet Shugarman, "a multiple award-winning author, influencer, and connector in the climate movement." Ms. Shugarman is the 2021 recipient of the WATER SPIRIT Suzanne Golas Award, a 2020 NYC Climate Hero, and a 2019 featured speaker at the Global Engagement Summit at the UN Headquarters. 

"Harriet is the Executive Director of ClimateMama, an online community she founded in 2009 that reaches individuals in over 110 countries and all 50 states. As a leader and mentor with The Climate Reality Project, Harriet established the Climate Reality New York City Metro Chapter and served as its first chair. She was the recipient of the prestigious Climate Reality Alfredo Sirkis Memorial Green Ring Award in 2017 and is also profiled in former US Vice President Al Gore’s book: An Inconvenient Sequel, Truth to Power."

Bargman also adds that Ms. Shugarman's writing and thought pieces of climate solutions appear in international, national, and regional publications online and in print. Additionally, Shugarman's "2020 book: How to Talk to Your Kids About Climate Change, Turning Angst to Action is a national finalist for the 2020 Forword Indie's Books Award."

Ms.Shugarman's repertoire also includes "25 years of work with governments, international organizations, and educational institutions on climate and sustainability issues as an economist, policy analyst, informal educator, and adjunct professor, including 13 years with the international monetary fund as representative of the IMF at the UN."   

Ms. Shugarman serves on various boards that focus on climate, public policy, youth, gender, families, and justice. This includes having worked as a senior advisor for the organization, Our Kids Climate.  

Lastly, Sandra mentions that Ms. Shugarman resides in New York City. 

As always, we jump into Sandra's anecdotes and find out more about how she and Harriet met. In 2017, Sandra had participated in the Climate Reality Leadership Training, and Harriet was her  'glorious mentor.' 

In September 2017, Sandra booked a room in NYC to finish her solo show, The Edge of Everyday. As she was preparing everything for the show, Sandra and her husband went to see Al Gore's documentary An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power. During the film, Al Gore spoke a lot about the Climate Reality Project, which stuck with Bargman. As Sandra and her husband were making their way home, Sandra received an email notifying her of the theatre she had just booked, closing for good--this was a month later, at the end of September. Sandra says that instead of freaking out, the moment she got home, she researched more information on Climate Reality and found out there would be training, the weekend in which she would've been performing in her show. The training was going to be in Sandra's hometown of Pittsburg, and Al Gore would be leading it. It was at that training that Sandra and Harriet met!

Now moving on to Harriet, Sandra asks that more information be detailed about the Climate Reality Project. With Al Gore's first film, An Inconvenient Truth, and its success, Al Gore decided there would be a project to train people within six months and send them out into their communities. It was successful and the first training, 2006,  was in Al Gore's home barn in Tennessee. Harriet mentions that the purpose of the Project's training' is to help people learn how to talk about climate and climate change to be able to go back into their communities and initiate something beneficial for their communities. 

Sandra asks Harriet how she got into the mentorship position. Did she start as a mentor, or was she "recruited?" After they started having more trainings, Climate Reality Project needed more mentors to help with the trainings. Harriet says that she loved it from the beginning. Sandra asks how many local chapters there are, to which Harriet responded by saying there are more than 140 of them. And both women say that people don't have to be scientists to participate in the organization; it is open to all, and all are welcome to join!

Segment 2

We start off the second segment with a synopsis of a New York Times article that Sandra had read; it was written by an Israeli philosopher and historian who tied in philosophical concepts with the dire situation of Mother Earth. Both women talk about how climate change and the repercussions of human activity affect everyone, including those who deny it. 

To make sure our listeners know the differences in terminology, Sandra asks Ms. Shugarman to explain the difference between global warming and climate change. "Global warming, in its simplest terms, means an increase in the average surface temperature of the earth due to a build-up of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere," according to Harriet. "Whereas climate change, also a broad word refers to long-term changes in climate," that includes "temperature and precipitation over a long period of time." 

Sandra chimes in, saying that she thinks of the climate as systems. Bargman also adds that there is this massive human drama that the youth have grabbed onto to create a loud message about their lives being sacrificed because of greed. 

Harriet says that the organization was started with the elders in mind, so they could talk and have conversations about our planet and its changes. Both talk about the presence of the youth demanding change; Harriet says that back in 1992, they were already seeing young people protest the climate injustices. 

Turning the attention back to the focus of this segment, Sandra asks Harriet--how was ClimateMama started? After completing the training back in 2007, Harriet says that she came back to her community and started asking herself what her place was in the climate advocacy movement. She admitted that the facts, the science data isn't what really convinces people to take action (well, at least, not in many cases). During that time, Harriet had young kids and wanted to have them make sense of the stuff she had learned about. That is how ClimateMama began.

Segment 3

In this segment, Sandra asks Ms. Shugarman to talk about COP26. COP26 (Conference of the Parties), as Harriet describes it, is the decision-making body of the United Nations Framework on Climate Change--a product of the 1992 climate change summit. The 26 in COP26 stands for the 26th time the parties have met; the names of the agreements usually follow the names of where the COP is being held. In Ms. Shugarman's opinion, she thinks we should have "cautious optimism coming out of the COP." We can't expect the things agreed upon in COP to happen successfully. 

An important observation that Harriet has made has been that over the years, there has been more civil and company involvement in COP. These involvements are both good and bad. We see how corporations are announcing their tactics towards sustainability and wrong because there are actors who come out who want to stall the forward processes. Sandra brings up how incredible it was to see the "phase-out" of fossil fuels in COP26 and the mentioning of abandoning coal--especially by China. Bargman also points out that transparency is fantastic, primarily due to youth involvement, becoming more of a norm. 

Sandra asks Harriet what the relationship between the economy and the global climate crisis is. Harriet says that the relationship is everything. We can't run on a dead planet. She says that we need to solve the climate crisis to have an economy. Climate affects all aspects of the economy. An example are the eroded roads in British Columbia; as Harriet mentioned. Shugarman adds that we can't have a conversation about one and not the other. 

Sandra says that this conversation makes her think of the "finger-pointing" towards oil companies and capitalism in general. Sandra says that to see a change, we need to change some of the ways we live our lives. Bargman adds that it's not enough to say that we demand change from the big corporations; change also needs to come from every one of us. Ms. Shugarman humorously adds that Sandra's topics are questioned and answered in her book, How to Talk to Your Kids About Climate Change,Turning Angst to Action.

Segment 4

How to Talk to Your Kids About Climate Change, Turning Angst to Action Harriet says, is a culmination of the years after she took her first training. The book is to tell her story and share what she learned. Through her book, Harriet not only wanted to share her story but also share hope. 

The truth about our reality is that the climate crisis isn't something that will be solved with a few efforts; it's something that we will continue to rest for the rest of our lives. Climate change, global warming, etc., are issues that will affect the lives of our children. Young people are feeling grief and anxiety because they are uncertain of their existence on Earth. Harriet says that these feelings are not just being heard through anecdotes; they are being seen through data from young people in many different countries.


00:00:16.049 --> 00:00:18.150 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Welcome everyone i'm Sandra bars.

00:00:19.170 --> 00:00:29.430 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: A few years ago I wrote and performed a solo show called the edge of every day, which was an exploration of the rough edges and contradictions, we all face grappling.

00:00:30.510 --> 00:00:31.290 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Show fitting.

00:00:32.400 --> 00:00:33.630 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: A relevant topic.

00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:36.090 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: More than I could.

00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:37.650 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: So.

00:00:40.710 --> 00:00:42.660 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: People sharing stories and.

00:00:56.430 --> 00:00:58.500 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Hello everyone.

00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:10.500 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: We are live in the hive, thank you for joining me on this, the sixth episode of the edge of every day here on talk radio dot nyc.

00:01:11.580 --> 00:01:23.040 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: For those of you who are tuning in for the first time and for those of you who don't know me yet I encourage you to check out my bio on talk radio dot nyc or, of course, you can.

00:01:26.790 --> 00:01:27.870 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Or you can tune.

00:01:32.550 --> 00:01:38.880 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Do and the inspiration for this podcast or you can listen in on any of the previous episodes.

00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:47.760 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: In a nutshell, it's a show about celebrating triumphs pushing boundaries and exploring rough edges.

00:01:48.450 --> 00:01:57.120 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Through conversations and sharing stories with friends and colleagues it's my hope that we can begin to understand our edges.

00:01:57.600 --> 00:02:11.010 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And what I mean by edges is those places where we're fearful those places where we are resistant to change those places where paradoxes and contradictions live.

00:02:11.430 --> 00:02:26.850 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: In our beliefs and our understandings both internally and collectively listen, we live in edgy challenging times but life isn't black versus white it's an embrace of both.

00:02:27.330 --> 00:02:41.400 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And the more we recognize our own edges and get real about them, the more we can help others to do the same, and that I fully believe can help to change the world so thanks again for tuning in.

00:02:42.750 --> 00:02:47.610 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And without further ado, it is time to introduce our guest this evening.

00:02:48.900 --> 00:02:56.550 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Harriet sugarman is a multi award winning author influencer and connector in the climate movement.

00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:08.880 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: She is the 2021 recipient of the water spirit Suzanne goalless award a 2020 New York City climate hero, and a.

00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:15.870 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: featured speaker at the global engagement summit at United Nations headquarters.

00:03:16.770 --> 00:03:31.140 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Harriet is the Executive Director of climate mama an online Community she founded in 2009 that reaches individuals in over 110 countries and all 50 states.

00:03:31.860 --> 00:03:54.480 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: As a leader and a mentor with the climate reality project Harriet established the climate reality New York City metro chapter and served as its first Chair she was the recipient of the prestigious climate reality Alfredo circus memorial green ring award in 2017.

00:03:55.500 --> 00:04:03.870 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And there's also profiled in former US Vice President Al gore's book an inconvenient sequel truth to power.

00:04:04.950 --> 00:04:16.020 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: harriet's writing and thought pieces on climate solutions in appear in international, national and regional publications online and in print.

00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:33.570 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: harriet's 2020 book how to talk to your kids about climate change, turning against to action is a national finalist for the 2024 word Indies books awards and the silver silver award winner for both the.

00:04:35.250 --> 00:04:42.690 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Independent book publishers Benjamin Franklin book of the year and the 2021 novelist book of the year.

00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:58.050 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Harriet has worked for more than 25 years with governments, international organizations and education educational institutions on climate and sustainability issues as an economic an economist.

00:04:58.500 --> 00:05:10.860 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Policy analyst informal educator and adjunct professor, including 13 years with the Internet national monetary fund, as a representative of the IMF.

00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:29.400 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: at the United Nations Harriet serves on numerous boards that address climate public policy youth gender families and justice, including as a senior advisor for our kids climate and she lives in New York City welcome Harriet.

00:05:29.850 --> 00:05:36.030 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Thank you so much Sandra for that kind introduction and it's a pleasure to be with you think it.

00:05:36.030 --> 00:05:57.240 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Is such a pleasure to have you here Thank you so much for agreeing to come on i'm so excited as everyone will learn, I am a an enormous fan of you, and the work that you do so, as i'm starting all of my podcasts with my guests i'm telling how we met so I will do the same with you but.

00:05:58.350 --> 00:06:08.160 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: i'm going to just jump in and say that I attended the climate reality leadership training in 2017 and Harriet was my glorious mentor.

00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:18.360 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: At but I got a great little story that I want to tell that leads in and relates to the edge of every day so it's September 2017.

00:06:19.410 --> 00:06:31.830 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And I have booked in a room in New York City the follow up show to my solo show the edge of every day, which is this podcast is based upon so.

00:06:32.220 --> 00:06:40.620 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: it's I booked the room it's a month before i've got all of my promotion in place all my PR is going out people are.

00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:52.920 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Are booking flights to come and see the performances i'm very excited it's politically inclined, and my husband and I go and see Al gore's new.

00:06:53.910 --> 00:07:08.610 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: movie the sequel to an inconvenient truth, the sequel, and so we go to our little local indie theater and we watch it and it's a we're completely jazz and he talks about the climate reality project so much in that version.

00:07:08.970 --> 00:07:16.980 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And it's so now it's really on my radar all jazz we you know we're out i'm in the car going off and how I want to check it out and.

00:07:17.490 --> 00:07:33.510 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And I just quickly check my email on my phone and there's an email from the venue where i'm doing my show in October 2017 it is closing for good the doors are closing for good at the end of September.

00:07:35.250 --> 00:07:36.960 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: So i've already.

00:07:38.280 --> 00:07:44.370 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: paid for things have gone out people have spent money to come and see my head's about to implode so rather than.

00:07:44.790 --> 00:08:02.040 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: address that immediately I come home and I pull up my computer in my bed and go immediately to climate reality project and Lo and behold the same weekend, as my show was to have been there is a training in my hometown of Pittsburgh Pennsylvania with Al Gore.

00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:10.080 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And within days, of course, I had signed up, and there I went back to Pittsburgh and matt Harriet sugarman.

00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:12.450 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: All reason and.

00:08:12.870 --> 00:08:20.100 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You never told me that story, I never knew that story before that is awesome and wonderful and meant to be to be.

00:08:20.430 --> 00:08:24.840 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And meant to be now had you had you ever been to Pittsburgh just quickly have you ever.

00:08:25.590 --> 00:08:31.230 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): ever been to Pittsburgh before, so it was my first time and I never knew that you were originally from Pittsburgh.

00:08:32.400 --> 00:08:49.140 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And it was a great it was great to be back it was great to see how that how the town had grown, but, most importantly, it was great to meet you and 1000 new friends who are attending learning how to go out into their universes in their.

00:08:50.490 --> 00:09:06.000 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: communities and speak about climate, the climate movement, climate change, etc, etc, so how let's talk a little bit about the climate reality project and how you, you came to be a part of it, what is the climate reality project, first and foremost.

00:09:06.210 --> 00:09:19.980 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): let's share that with our listeners good question and let's start right there too yeah so with Al gore's first film an inconvenient truth you, you are talking about the sequel that that came out in 2006 and.

00:09:21.810 --> 00:09:29.400 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know, he he has his own stories behind how he came up with developing that, but the basis for it was the slide deck actually.

00:09:30.750 --> 00:09:38.970 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And that he's started traveling with around the country and around the world, telling the story of the climate crisis and that film is interwoven with his personal story.

00:09:39.300 --> 00:09:50.070 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): But my understanding from that and that was out again in 2006 was that the success that I met with which was surprising to him because it won an academy award it actually.

00:09:50.640 --> 00:10:01.200 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): was very you know sort of resurrected the discussion around climate in the United States, and he said and I spoke to the first person who was the.

00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:05.160 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): executive director, for it was then called the climate project.

00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:12.960 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And I guess, he said in six months, we are going to train people and they're going to go back into their communities are going to take my slide deck and.

00:10:13.410 --> 00:10:23.400 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know they're going to talk about climate and we're going to make a movement and she said to him well six months I don't think so, and sure enough and.

00:10:24.210 --> 00:10:34.470 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): That he made that happen, and he started the first training was in the fall of 2006 i'm actually at his home in Tennessee in his barn.

00:10:34.950 --> 00:10:44.970 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And there were 50 folks that were there and then he helped six trainings in early 2007 in nashville so every other month, can you imagine having.

00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:55.950 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Those trainings actually it was a couple every month almost so I was in one of those very first trainings in 2007 not the one in his barn but shortly thereafter and.

00:10:56.490 --> 00:11:16.500 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): As you said, they have grown immensely since then we had 1000 people in Pittsburgh, which I actually personally think is the ideal size for an in person training big enough, but not as big as some of the other ones that we've had in person, up to 2500 which is kind of hard to manage.

00:11:17.850 --> 00:11:30.840 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): But, and now we've had some online trainings as covert has forced many things to happen, I think, in this regard, you know, for better and for worse because we haven't had the in person once but I think we'll have hybrids moving forward so.

00:11:32.070 --> 00:11:42.210 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): The long and the short of it, just as you said, Sandra it's a it's a place to come together to learn the science to learn how to speak about climate in a very condensed period of time in person.

00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:51.300 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Over two and a half days over 10 days online, you know certain hours over the day and to be able to feel confident to go back into your community.

00:11:51.750 --> 00:12:05.760 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And to take this deck or and to do many other acts of leadership, because that might not be the only one, and it wasn't the beginning, but now we have many, many other acts of leadership and to be part of this wonderful community to meet amazing people.

00:12:06.780 --> 00:12:15.780 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Like you, and I met, and so yeah it's wonderful and our next training hasn't been announced, yet, but look for it very soon and.

00:12:16.770 --> 00:12:23.310 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: You absolutely and i'll be we'll be announcing all of that information how, at the end of the show how people can find that.

00:12:23.670 --> 00:12:37.470 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: How did you step into the role of mentorship was it just were you asked when you were one of the initial trained or is that was that some an extra special thing that you wanted to do as part of the group.

00:12:38.610 --> 00:12:50.760 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Well, you know as we started to have more trainings after so we had that first year and then Mr garth took it internationally and he didn't do any more than us for three or four years after that.

00:12:51.870 --> 00:12:59.760 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): He actually did one which for faith based a faith based training and then that was the only.

00:12:59.790 --> 00:13:00.510 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): One wrote about.

00:13:01.560 --> 00:13:11.460 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And then he started having them come up again and yeah so they needed mentors and because I was in that first group, so I volunteered and I loved being a mentor.

00:13:11.940 --> 00:13:19.950 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): and have done it many, many, many times now, and each time it's different, but always rewarding and.

00:13:20.640 --> 00:13:33.180 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): So i'm pleased that I was able to move into that role, and then, as you said, when we started chapters that was when we moved into local because we didn't used to have those in until 2017 same time.

00:13:34.290 --> 00:13:46.020 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): So I was fortunate enough and we'd had informal work happening here in New York and the New York City area but was happy to be able to start the New York City chapter fantastic.

00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:51.540 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And how many how many local chapters are there across the United States, do you know offhand.

00:13:51.630 --> 00:13:55.470 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know what we're over 140 local chapters now mm hmm.

00:13:55.590 --> 00:14:01.680 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And you don't have to be a climate reality trained person to be a part of these these.

00:14:01.710 --> 00:14:03.030 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): organisms Absolutely not.

00:14:03.060 --> 00:14:06.810 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): it's open to anyone and everyone absolutely.

00:14:07.350 --> 00:14:17.340 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: it's a fabulous fabulous resource to find ways to educate yourself and to just dive in you just can't feel overwhelmed about the information you just have to start.

00:14:17.610 --> 00:14:33.330 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: just have to take that first step forward and dive in you don't have to think of yourself as a scientist Just think, as somebody who's ready to learn and make some changes and it's time for our first break and when we come back, we will talk about.

00:14:34.350 --> 00:14:39.360 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: harriet's organization climate mama, among other things, so when we come back.

00:14:40.680 --> 00:14:41.250 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Thanks Sandra.

00:16:55.890 --> 00:17:07.650 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And we are back with our guest climate mama Harriet sugarman on the edge of every day, so I want to talk for a second about this article that I read.

00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:25.260 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Harry and it's by an Israeli historian and philosopher you Vol Noah Harare, and it was in the New York Times, and it was interesting because it he talked about the narrative of climate change.

00:17:26.370 --> 00:17:41.850 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And so, his key theme, as of course as a philosopher is the idea that human society has been driven by our capacity to believe in what he calls fictions yes fictions I would agree with that.

00:17:42.930 --> 00:18:01.740 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: The stories that capture our collective imaginations and whether that's god's or nations or our cultural beliefs, etc, but our belief in them contributes to our societal cooperation and he was asked how this relates to climate change.

00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:12.840 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And the scientific community has communicated clearly about the scale of the climate crisis and the urgency of the problem and.

00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:28.980 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: You know, so when we're thinking about all of this, why is there a lack in the global political will to address this this issue this crisis, these catastrophes and his answer was this is fast, and it was fascinating to me.

00:18:30.570 --> 00:18:37.950 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: it's important to have human enemies in human and enemies, to have a catchy story.

00:18:38.820 --> 00:18:50.730 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: With climate change, you don't he says, our minds didn't evolve for this kind of story we evolved as hunter gatherers and it was never the case.

00:18:51.150 --> 00:18:58.380 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: That we would somehow change the climate in ways which were bad for us so it's not a story we're interested in.

00:18:59.310 --> 00:19:12.060 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: You know the tribe, we all can get down with a tribe that wants to kill us or the other person that but this existential idea of something out in the world that's going to it somehow we can't wrap our brains around that.

00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:20.130 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And that's why we don't have a good narrative that was his his belief i'm not so sure that I mean that's as good of a reason as any.

00:19:20.370 --> 00:19:25.740 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Certainly, our evolution, but I yeah I think that's a really interesting actually analogy and.

00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:37.770 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): It is something that's not only it's too big for many of us to get our arms around and our brains around and it until recently, and you and I were talking about this earlier.

00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:51.240 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know where Mother Nature is now saying it pay attention to me i'm not your enemy, but look what I can do and where every one of us has been part of a climate emergency some kind of extreme weather event.

00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:59.370 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Or if it's not us personally it's our and it's our cousin it's our dear friend and it's happening everywhere it's not only happening over there.

00:19:59.670 --> 00:20:05.610 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And he talked about all you still work at the UN, and I started working on climate for the UN back in 92.

00:20:06.150 --> 00:20:16.740 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): When we were having our first Earth Summit, when we first were sort of defining sustainability, looking at the climate crisis and to me back then, it seemed way over there, wherever that was.

00:20:16.770 --> 00:20:20.220 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Totally but I don't think we can.

00:20:21.450 --> 00:20:25.440 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): It to anyone it's over there anymore it's us.

00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:40.800 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Exactly well and even though the last people who are dragging their feet and way to kick this dumb street are going to be yanked into it, I mean because it's here there's no getting away from that, but even today i'm shocked at so I want to back up.

00:20:40.860 --> 00:20:50.910 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: With terminology one because, even now, we have a spectrum of people i'm sure that are watching this that under that didn't know about this and.

00:20:51.360 --> 00:21:06.030 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: We can never over educate ourselves enough, so I want to talk about global what is global warming versus climate change what is climate What are those terms, global warming, was the first that I remember, and it was so easily manipulated.

00:21:06.510 --> 00:21:14.340 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And stories created around it, for this article so tell us what those terms mean let's get clear.

00:21:14.370 --> 00:21:22.920 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Clearer and and you're right words matter and those words were were manipulated to say Oh well, it's cold today so global warming isn't happening.

00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:25.410 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): yeah let's not be true, but so.

00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:31.920 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Global warming and its simplest term really means an increase in the earth average surface temperatures.

00:21:32.670 --> 00:21:39.930 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Due to a build up of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and so, then people roll their eyes litter greenhouse gases, what does that mean but.

00:21:40.290 --> 00:21:49.320 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And though it, you know and we'll talk more about that, but that's what it is in its simplest terms, the average surface temperature of our planet is increasing that's happening.

00:21:49.620 --> 00:22:07.590 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): and actually we're causing it to happen, but that's global warming, whereas climate change is also a broad term but it refers to long term changes in climate and it can be temperature and precipitation over a longer a long period of time, so over decades so.

00:22:09.270 --> 00:22:13.890 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): We are changing our climate science is telling us that we are seeing that.

00:22:14.250 --> 00:22:24.090 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know, and those people that say it isn't happening or it's happening in a different way, you can cherry pick different times, but when you look over long term trends our climate.

00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:34.650 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): is changing right it's getting more extreme it's changing and the average temperatures are increasing so global warming is happening is actually happening too yeah.

00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:38.460 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And I always think of it in climate in terms of systems.

00:22:39.030 --> 00:22:52.980 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: So I tried to explain it when i'm asked and thinking in terms of the long term understanding of how the systems, the global systems work on the planet and how those are shifting and opening up and tightening.

00:22:53.370 --> 00:22:55.230 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): etc, etc, but.

00:22:55.710 --> 00:22:59.430 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: You yeah you mentioned the story of things so.

00:23:00.450 --> 00:23:04.110 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And how eyes roll back with the two and.

00:23:04.560 --> 00:23:18.450 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: The jury of you know that's just such a weird story and it's I can't relate to it and I can't wrap my brain around this idea of CO2 what's that it's this hazy story, but now in 2021 we have a story, we can really relate to.

00:23:18.630 --> 00:23:19.020 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): mm hmm.

00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:25.650 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: We have this story acumen drama that the youth are now grabbing on to.

00:23:25.950 --> 00:23:39.150 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Because I mean it's all of our stories but they're so loud about it and they're make they're making this great claim that is making everyone snap to about how they're being sacrificed on the altar of the greed.

00:23:39.570 --> 00:23:48.690 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Of the elders that have systematically chosen to keep their head in the sand to stay willfully ignorant or not make the the hard decisions.

00:23:48.990 --> 00:24:05.490 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: To solve this so they are, they are going to have a very different future than us so This brings me to your climate mama organization which is it started, for, as I understand, for what you'll tell us started for kids but for kids of every age.

00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:17.940 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): yeah Well, no, and actually it was started for the adults, the elders to be able to find the words to be able to talk to young people and to be educated, to be able to help.

00:24:18.600 --> 00:24:22.260 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Explain what's happening, and you know and but to your point about.

00:24:23.010 --> 00:24:27.540 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Youth voices in youth rising even back in 1992 you know when I.

00:24:27.810 --> 00:24:38.880 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): worked on this first Earth Summit we had young people that came to that it was in Brazil that came from all over the world and raised their voices and said you're not doing enough, you know wake up you.

00:24:39.330 --> 00:24:56.700 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Politicians i'm all over the world, but but we didn't have social media then and the story the science that we roll our eyes back it was it wasn't it was evident but it wasn't as clear as it is today, and I, personally, I think that it was the.

00:24:58.260 --> 00:25:10.350 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): There was a report that came out from the UN that really said, we have till 2030 until we pass these tipping points so as a first time said it really bluntly was on the cover of all your newspapers all over the world.

00:25:11.100 --> 00:25:25.140 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Every web page you turn on and that to me seem to have woken people all over, but especially the youth movement came together that's you know, right after that, when credit tember were hear a lot about her as a youth leader.

00:25:25.470 --> 00:25:38.610 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know sat in front of her Parliament by building and Sweden by herself other young people were inspired by that, so I would, I think that's been building since then, and so I think.

00:25:39.930 --> 00:25:47.280 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Even though we they were there before those young people it sort of wisdom that all of a sudden, we started listening, you know your.

00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:59.310 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): podcasts and your stories about deep listening and telling stories and I think use were not deeply listened to on their concerns prior to that in the way that they are being.

00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:08.970 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): heard and and and invited to the table, I think, in a real way, not just here we have a youth sitting at the table with us kind of way.

00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.940 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): So so tell us about climate mom yes sorry, so I, you see, I can get.

00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:16.380 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Good.

00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:17.910 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: It is good.

00:26:18.180 --> 00:26:26.910 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): So I did the climate reality training, as I said in 2007 and I came back to my community and we're like well what what do I do and where's my space and place in this.

00:26:27.120 --> 00:26:35.850 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Because it has to be personal right about your story it's not just showing you know the science, because that doesn't seem to move people right that's where we see is rolling.

00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:45.540 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): So for me, I had young children at the time, and I was looking for answers as a mother to be able to talk to my kids talk to my Community I.

00:26:46.170 --> 00:27:00.120 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): went back and said, nobody knew what I was talking about, or what I had learned it just was so far removed from their lives and I couldn't find anything specifically talking to me, so I started climb a mountain and that was back in 2000 and.

00:27:01.080 --> 00:27:08.880 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Now there are many others, but I believe we were the first parent focus climate organization anywhere fantastic so tell.

00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.980 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: us what we can find on that website.

00:27:12.150 --> 00:27:19.770 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: As you know, will reiterate this again at the end of the show as a resource, but talk to us at what what you can find on that website.

00:27:20.310 --> 00:27:32.730 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): yeah you know it there's a lot of stories that we share of other people other parents around the world that are taking action on climate that are doing things in their own communities.

00:27:33.210 --> 00:27:45.210 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): There are resources books, you know ideas, so we share things that are focused around the lives of young people, and you don't have to be a parent it's you know if you have a or an aunt your uncle your caregiver.

00:27:46.560 --> 00:27:56.910 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Those kind of stories are things that you'll find on the website and links to resources and other organizations fantastic and and your own personal story.

00:27:57.210 --> 00:27:59.370 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And I love I love your.

00:28:00.930 --> 00:28:01.800 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Your motto.

00:28:02.910 --> 00:28:11.820 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Is tell the truth, actions speak louder than words and don't be afraid, and something right that probably was shared to us by.

00:28:12.690 --> 00:28:25.080 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Someone in our lives that may be on something completely different, but I think when it comes to the climate it's relative and very important and for us to be able to tell the truth, no matter what age, our children and our at.

00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:42.900 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): To show through our actions to them that way, we are doing things and to move through our fear right through it from the edge to be able to continue to be hopeful and move forward, even when we know we're dealing with an emergency yeah.

00:28:42.930 --> 00:28:47.130 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: We are truly at the ultimate edge, that it is moving through our fear.

00:28:48.510 --> 00:28:56.940 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Our ultimate edge well it's time for us to take a break, and when we come back we're going to talk about COP 26.

00:28:58.050 --> 00:28:59.640 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: When we're back, thank you.

00:31:06.630 --> 00:31:16.920 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And we are back with climate mama Harriet sugarman and in this portion i'd like to talk about COP 26 you know, there are.

00:31:17.580 --> 00:31:36.690 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: A lot of people who are reading about this that don't even know what it is they've they've read that they may have seen Greg attenborough talk about you know it's business as usual they might have seen john Kerry talk about that was a lot of great hopeful move forward.

00:31:38.100 --> 00:31:50.490 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Please tell us what is first and foremost, what is COP 26 what what's it in relation to, and then, when you're finished with that let's get into your thoughts about how this this year.

00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:59.130 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Sure thanks Sandra and I think it's a great question right because there are so many acronyms when it comes to the United Nations, and this is one of those many.

00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:16.770 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): acronyms that even when you know what it is, which it's the Conference of the Parties, the 26 meeting what does that really mean right, it is and it's, so it is the decision making body of something called the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, which was one of the.

00:32:17.940 --> 00:32:28.140 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Agreements and outcomes of what I talked about before that first first summit in 1992 goes way back till then so actually i've had a history with it, since way back then.

00:32:28.620 --> 00:32:43.080 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And it it's the 26th time it's met right so that's the end you know, we know that Paris Conference was and they usually have the names after them, so the Paris Agreement, which many of us would have heard about was a cop.

00:32:44.400 --> 00:33:01.020 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And then the agreements that come out of it now, we have the Glasgow pack pack, because it was this meeting happened in Glasgow just recently, and so so that's what it is, in a nutshell, and in my opinion.

00:33:02.250 --> 00:33:17.160 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): I, and I just wrote a post about it on climate mama so people can go back there to see more details, but I think that we should have cautious optimism coming out of the of the COP because what we need to remember as a baseline is that this is.

00:33:18.330 --> 00:33:33.660 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): A Convention, a meeting of the United Nations basically all these countries of the UN over 190 countries but and the UN has no enforcement mechanism and no mechanism to do that so anything that comes out of there.

00:33:34.830 --> 00:33:47.670 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And then goes back to each country has to be agreed upon in that country, so we want what as it relates to climate strong decisions, but then it's us it's through moral suasion it's through.

00:33:48.780 --> 00:33:53.160 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): individuals and organizations and companies saying you agreed to this.

00:33:53.640 --> 00:34:04.530 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): At this meeting, you who went to the UN meeting now you have to stick to it, and do it, so we can't expect and that's I think the disappointment of many people.

00:34:05.100 --> 00:34:15.780 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): That what happens there then just means okay it's going to happen, just like that, because it then has to go back to each individual member of the COP each country.

00:34:16.080 --> 00:34:26.460 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): and be implemented, but what i've seen happen over the years, with these meetings there's a much more involvement by civil society there's much more involvement by companies and corporations.

00:34:27.030 --> 00:34:34.080 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): In a good and a bad way in the good way where they come and they make big announcements on what they're going to do around climate and sustainability.

00:34:34.350 --> 00:34:40.650 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): In the bad way we're seeing more and more of those actors that are trying to slow things down also have here at those meetings.

00:34:41.520 --> 00:34:54.840 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): But I think that there was a lot that happened in and around this cop, it was the first time that we saw a reference to phasing out coal and phasing out fossil fuels that we've never seen that those words.

00:34:55.620 --> 00:34:59.610 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): yeah and, as you said, language matters and words matter so to see that.

00:35:00.090 --> 00:35:10.950 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): that's important and then again we saw outside of that a lot of other agreements and agreement on that vein and agreement on deforestation, but have a lot of signatories, so a lot that has to be done.

00:35:11.250 --> 00:35:21.360 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): In a short period of time we said, China and the United States have a bilateral agreement, we saw companies and investment banks get together saying they're going to give trillions of dollars.

00:35:22.410 --> 00:35:33.180 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): towards climate action, so there were things that happened now, we just need to make sure that those countries stick to it, and it was company stick to it absolutely.

00:35:34.380 --> 00:35:42.660 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Yes, and some of the desert I do did want to talk just quickly about the disappointment of there was the complete phase out.

00:35:44.040 --> 00:35:51.990 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Fossil fuels the complete phase out and there was a big push from China to to change that language in two.

00:35:54.450 --> 00:35:55.830 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: or phase phase down.

00:35:56.100 --> 00:35:58.980 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): not always yeah and.

00:35:59.220 --> 00:36:05.130 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And another thing that I was just speaking of us as we did in our last good you know this, what what is it Fridays.

00:36:05.370 --> 00:36:06.600 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Fridays for future.

00:36:06.600 --> 00:36:08.250 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): For future this do this.

00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:23.550 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And having the youth there to again really drum home that bring it to the streets in that that these kinds of discussions have been in behind closed doors and that we don't always.

00:36:24.330 --> 00:36:33.660 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: or haven't paid attention I shouldn't say it's completely behind closed doors it's up to us to pay attention and and to make the effort to.

00:36:34.170 --> 00:36:51.570 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: educate ourselves, but having those kids there and having the all all of that surrounding it all the youth pounded on the drums and getting the word out really you know, making it more feels like it was way more accessible, the information.

00:36:51.690 --> 00:36:59.130 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): is getting there more and more so, I remember going years ago in 1995 actually to that it's called the Fourth World Conference, and women in China.

00:36:59.490 --> 00:37:08.340 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And I was there with the IMF, so I ought to go into those blue zones and into those you know into the meeting side of it because we're a specialized agency of the UN.

00:37:08.640 --> 00:37:21.600 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): But that was one of the very more first times, where you saw civil society outside like really start to put pressure on and that's only been building, you know, over the last almost 20 years now, and so.

00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:26.760 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): That outside those outside events that happen the youth voices.

00:37:27.450 --> 00:37:33.000 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Those are really important but remember that COP is a government it's made up of government.

00:37:33.210 --> 00:37:42.210 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): that's who sitting, you know who's there, and so, to be able to influence that you have to get to the government representative, so you know there's a lot of stuff that goes into.

00:37:42.510 --> 00:37:51.780 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): That that from the outside it's like well why can't they just make a decision, or why can't we be sitting there and it just isn't set up that way, so when you have to maybe make a new something new.

00:37:52.680 --> 00:38:06.960 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): It should be that climate crisis is top on everyone's like that it's an emergency, we should all be working on it and everything should be binding so maybe absolutely you know new an important.

00:38:07.200 --> 00:38:09.570 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: International global government.

00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:12.240 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): yeah there'll be a lot of problems in that.

00:38:12.270 --> 00:38:12.960 In this country.

00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:16.320 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Well, back to those stories those stories we love to.

00:38:16.410 --> 00:38:20.010 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: know about ourselves in our nation's and our cultural heritage is.

00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:33.360 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: yeah so let's let's i'm not sure how much time we have left and so i'm hesitant to dive into this next question but i'm going to go for it so as an economist.

00:38:34.770 --> 00:38:47.610 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: it's the relationship between our economy and the global climate crisis weigh in a little on that for us, because I know that that's a confusing thing thanks I we've got six minutes to go thanks Sam.

00:38:47.670 --> 00:38:49.980 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Okay, no problem, we can cover that in six minutes.

00:38:52.770 --> 00:38:58.560 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Well, you know it's everything it's completely related you know any on a dead planet is.

00:38:58.590 --> 00:38:59.850 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): yeah I know so.

00:39:00.240 --> 00:39:01.260 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: I can't eat that.

00:39:01.560 --> 00:39:02.130 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Yes.

00:39:02.370 --> 00:39:07.590 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): I can't intro right exactly, and so we you know you can't you can't.

00:39:08.610 --> 00:39:17.820 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Put one over the other, I mean you can actually we have to solve the climate crisis or there's no economy there's nothing will happen we've seen in covert right how.

00:39:18.630 --> 00:39:38.820 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Things have broken down or stopped working when people can't work when people you know can't get to their jobs in this case because of illness, because of inability to to be able to come to your place of business or work right at what happens when kind of breakdown happens and we can't.

00:39:40.290 --> 00:39:45.690 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): get to work when food can't get to the store or to the supermarket when.

00:39:45.990 --> 00:39:57.750 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Roads are audited when roads don't work well you know i'm originally from Canada, I saw it horrible pictures from British Columbia just recently of roads that have completely fallen apart all over the climate all over the.

00:39:58.350 --> 00:40:09.360 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): province, because of extreme weather just recently, so this happens all the time, and so, how you know as we stop and.

00:40:10.020 --> 00:40:18.180 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Find out ways to reduce our emissions, we also have to learn to adapt and build resiliency because the climate crisis is here forever and so.

00:40:18.420 --> 00:40:30.270 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): it's not only, and I know you're all about, and you have to build that internal resiliency true and figure out how we're going to adapt to be able to deal with the sadness that's coming ahead.

00:40:30.750 --> 00:40:41.460 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And are we have the jail and the changes so though it has to happen internally, it also has to happen in our cities in our towns, if a company wants to survive so.

00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:53.760 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): It we can have no economy without understanding and addressing the climate crisis so yeah you can't talk about them separately and.

00:40:54.090 --> 00:41:09.000 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): or put you know we can't have our economy and not work care about the environment, the harm that the climate crisis is doing to our environment is equally harmful to our economy absolutely and well and I.

00:41:09.150 --> 00:41:10.200 Think about.

00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:22.140 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: This makes me think in terms of all the finger pointing which is rightly so finger pointing at oil companies and and capitalism in general.

00:41:22.650 --> 00:41:30.240 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And you know, but we have to engage with this capitalistic society that we're so attached to.

00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:41.190 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: really take a look, and yes, we want to point the finger at them and we want their behaviors to shift dramatically, we have to have them shift dramatically but it's also up to us.

00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:57.270 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: to your point of looking internally what actions you know I i'm used to having certain things and yeah I can I can switch to paper bags and, but there are some big shifts coming down the pipe that we have to.

00:41:57.750 --> 00:42:09.450 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: embrace and learn about and and understand that this will be the new normal because we will not be going back so so it's a what is my relationship to.

00:42:10.110 --> 00:42:28.080 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: You know I want big corporations to change, but I have to change to the things that I want the the amount of electricity that I want the amount of power, I want when I want it, when I jump in my car when I want it, you know all of these all of these shifts.

00:42:28.770 --> 00:42:31.080 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And that's where my book is something that everybody should read.

00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:32.250 talked about.

00:42:34.650 --> 00:42:35.520 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): But also.

00:42:36.690 --> 00:42:45.720 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know, we can do many things as individuals, but there's this whole and it shouldn't be a conflict, because we need the system to change so that.

00:42:47.130 --> 00:42:52.650 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know, you can get on the train and it all runs by electricity or so does your car.

00:42:53.670 --> 00:43:05.910 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): But we need all those systems to change, and you know that that sacrifices, you can make as an individual in this moment of time, you know might make your world seem Okay, but.

00:43:06.540 --> 00:43:16.710 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): it's not you know you have to also I think what we can do externally, to tell our stories to change people's minds, so that they vote in you know for for people that support.

00:43:17.370 --> 00:43:24.780 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): actions on the climate crisis recognize it as an emergency only support companies that have those same recognitions.

00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:44.010 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): that they are not just talking the talk they're walking the walk and ourselves to mentally in our heart if we live through our passions and see the climate crisis there, what we can do we can all be part of the solutions amen and that's a perfect time to break.

00:43:44.460 --> 00:43:48.270 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And when we come back, we will talk about that glorious book.

00:43:48.900 --> 00:43:52.320 For resources when we come back thanks Harriet.

00:45:54.120 --> 00:46:06.120 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: And we are back with Harriet sugarman author of the award winning book how to talk to your kids about climate change, turning angst into action, tell us about your book.

00:46:07.560 --> 00:46:18.390 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Inc Sandra you know it is a combination of those years since I took my first climate reality, training and I started climate mama and it was.

00:46:19.290 --> 00:46:29.040 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Written over the 10th anniversary of climate mama and to tell my story and to share what i've learned so.

00:46:29.580 --> 00:46:40.620 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): I think that it brings together the story of climate reality from understanding the science behind what's happening, and I share that understanding.

00:46:41.130 --> 00:47:03.420 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): The politics, just as it is understanding our feelings and coming to terms with once you understand the science and the politics behind the sadness that can be there and moving through those stages of grief and then it offers you know, once you are prepared for that.

00:47:04.650 --> 00:47:16.620 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Some ideas on how to speak to your kids or children in your life at different ages and it has my voice, but I also was fortunate enough to be able to an honor to include other.

00:47:17.910 --> 00:47:26.430 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): friends and colleagues in the climate movement who share how they speak with young people about the climate crisis as well, and then it takes it.

00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:39.330 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know, to those next steps, how do we not only share the story, but share active hope not just hope because hope in a vacuum is what what good is that anything right.

00:47:39.750 --> 00:47:51.930 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And so we need to how can we, and what is that definition what is active hope and So how do we pursue that and how do we, as you said before live by that motto from climate mama telling the truth.

00:47:52.290 --> 00:48:00.060 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Actions speak louder than words and not being afraid to move through it and my you know sort of final message in that sense is that.

00:48:00.510 --> 00:48:11.580 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): for ourselves and for our children, if we see everything through that lens of we're living a climate emergency we're going to be living up for the rest of our lives, what are you truly passionate about.

00:48:12.270 --> 00:48:24.330 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Because we need everyone, and we need everything that anyone can do that they're passionate about if you see it through that lens on the climate crisis, then you can.

00:48:25.230 --> 00:48:44.460 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): be part of the solution, part of our journey, because the climate crisis is something that we will be living for the rest of our lives science tells us that it's not something that we're going to solve and be done with it, we are you know, however, saying yeah we are planet in a way that.

00:48:45.810 --> 00:48:53.850 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): It seems like a long time for us, perhaps in it's happened in one person's life, but in the billions of year history of our planet, what we've done is happened like that.

00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:58.530 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): blink of an eye what are some of the things that you're you know in in.

00:48:59.190 --> 00:49:09.540 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: My reading i'm so enthralled and you brought this up about the grief what, what are the some of the things that you're encountering with some of the young people in your life.

00:49:11.250 --> 00:49:13.920 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: You know I just saw in a tweet someone I follow.

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:31.560 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: what's her name I forgot anyway, she asked she asked what's one thing that you hope to see in a lower carbon society, and one of the one of the answers was no anxiety ridden children.

00:49:33.330 --> 00:49:33.690 And I.

00:49:35.700 --> 00:49:38.550 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Of course, you know we just.

00:49:39.750 --> 00:49:54.510 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: I don't think about that because I don't have my own children and i'm not around other children enough to notice that they would be really anxious about their future of on earth, what are some of the things that you're encountering what.

00:49:54.930 --> 00:50:00.870 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): yeah absolutely well, and now you know, finally, to we're getting some some data, because everything.

00:50:01.290 --> 00:50:09.720 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): You know, we need we need data we need studies that show us this because anecdotally absolutely i'm hearing that and i'm seeing that, and you know, in the last.

00:50:10.080 --> 00:50:18.330 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Two or three years through actually colleagues of ours, with climate reality there's now a climate psychiatry association, there is a North American.

00:50:19.170 --> 00:50:36.630 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): version of climate psychology association or so they are professionals that work on mental health that are addressing this, but now, some of those professionals have done data and studies and I think and i'll talk about that in a minute, but one thing that.

00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:48.540 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): As we recognize the anxiety and the grief that our young people are feeling is to validate those feelings because right what they're feeling they shouldn't be feeling it.

00:50:48.540 --> 00:50:49.410 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: They should be.

00:50:49.560 --> 00:50:51.060 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: We should all be feeling this.

00:50:51.120 --> 00:51:10.980 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Absolutely, and so we have to help them see it, they don't have a psychosis there's nothing wrong with them that they're angry that they're just you know distress that they're feeling despair, because we have now changed that they will never live the kind of.

00:51:11.940 --> 00:51:21.900 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): We did life that we did or the planet and it's it's balanced we set the planet out of balance is what we've done with the climate crisis, so our.

00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:37.710 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): earth, which was this you know being that operated in balance factually right and we have upset her balance and she's showing us that, through extreme weather events through.

00:51:38.730 --> 00:51:42.570 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): So many different impacts that are related to the climate crisis that.

00:51:43.830 --> 00:51:51.540 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): If you aren't aware of that and our youth are tuning in right there really active there's finding that information everywhere so even when we think that.

00:51:51.930 --> 00:51:59.430 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): our youngest children are too young to hear that they're probably hearing it they're seeing it, you know in different ways, so we have to have the words to help share.

00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:07.680 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): That information with them, and now we have to the data there's studies that have been done with thousands of youth in in.

00:52:08.430 --> 00:52:11.790 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): More than 10 countries there's other studies coming out that way that.

00:52:12.180 --> 00:52:19.950 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): show that young people right they're feeling stress they're feeling concerned about having children have their own if they're old enough to make those decisions.

00:52:20.250 --> 00:52:26.370 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): they're feeling concerned about continuing with higher education, why should they you know when their futures.

00:52:26.700 --> 00:52:36.120 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): just going to be terrible they're worried about climate justice issues they recognize the unfairness of the climate crisis it doesn't impact us all equally.

00:52:36.930 --> 00:52:47.730 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And we end it on a country basis, or in our own neighborhoods right those beliefs responsible for the climate emergency are are regularly the first biggest price exactly.

00:52:48.150 --> 00:53:05.370 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): And so we're seeing that and we're hearing that from young people, and we should have answers about I think validating first and foremost that those feelings are real and important and that they can articulate them and share them is critical.

00:53:08.610 --> 00:53:09.690 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Oh.

00:53:11.700 --> 00:53:14.520 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: So the in this portion I want to.

00:53:15.570 --> 00:53:25.020 Of course, offer some resources your book is an extraordinary resource, as is your organization climate mama.

00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:48.150 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: In terms of some of the the things that you offer in your book just let's I want to quickly talk about before I get into some of these other resources just a couple of things that people can expect in your book of ways that they can begin to make some changes.

00:53:49.830 --> 00:54:02.160 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Sure at well again, as you said, there's a whole resource look there's a conversation starters, that even if you don't have the book and there's a download of.

00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:17.370 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): A book club guy that helps you, through your feelings and have those conversations about things that were discussed and brought up in the book, again, there was a chapter in the book on the science of.

00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:24.810 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Climate and so and it shows over more than 100 years that scientists have been telling us.

00:54:26.640 --> 00:54:35.670 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): The science behind it, if we put human created greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, we are going to change the climate, so we can look back well over 100 years and so.

00:54:36.900 --> 00:54:46.950 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): It takes us through that the book, it takes us through some of these stories that have been told, where we put the blame on.

00:54:47.940 --> 00:54:56.520 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): ourselves because we are told that by everyone right, we have to reduce, we have to reuse, we have to recycle those are good ideas, but where did that come from.

00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:12.090 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): That came from bottling companies from packaging companies who started, you know that trends, so that information is there in the book excellent yeah It shows you it shouldn't be divided by politics yeah, it has to be really yeah.

00:55:12.450 --> 00:55:14.520 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: So I sorry to interrupt.

00:55:14.580 --> 00:55:15.210 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): No, no, please.

00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:22.110 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: So you're the website climate

00:55:22.140 --> 00:55:23.220 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Just how it sounds.

00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:31.050 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Yes, the book again how to talk to your kids about climate change, turning angsty into action and you can.

00:55:31.530 --> 00:55:44.190 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Find links to that on your website and i'm sure you can find it in your local bookstore, but if you have to get it online, and you can, there are other places, you can get that another great.

00:55:45.570 --> 00:55:57.330 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: resource also for those artists out there that i'm aware of is Arctic cycle and the climate change theater action led by Sean tall building do.

00:55:57.540 --> 00:56:04.410 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Which i'm i've been a part of, and I just had a friend on who is directing some plays with that so full or if.

00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:09.930 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Artists street and climate change is up your alley that's a fantastic resource.

00:56:11.340 --> 00:56:15.030 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Another resource climate

00:56:16.740 --> 00:56:31.560 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: These are all fantastic places for all of us to to come to over and over again, to continue to educate ourselves and again share that out in the world and climate reality project.

00:56:34.080 --> 00:56:43.260 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Alright i'm so we I could talk for another hour with you, thank you so so much for your time your wisdom your insight Harriet.

00:56:44.490 --> 00:56:57.270 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: You are a hero a hero, and I am an inspired fan for life of you and i'm so grateful you're in my life, and thank you for coming on the show and sharing all of this.

00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:04.740 Harriet Shugarman (she/her): Thank you, I feel the same way, thank you for hosting sexual wonderful program and i'm honored to be on one of your guests Thank you Sandra.

00:57:05.070 --> 00:57:19.500 Sandra Bargman, The Edge of Everyday: Thank you and to all of you listening in you can find me again at Sandra bartman calm and until the next time remember we're always at the edge of the miraculous take good care.

download this episode of