We have seen great progress in the journey to racial equality in the past few decades. There are more black students and students of color entering and graduating from institutions of higher education than ever before.
But true racial equity in higher education does not mean inserting BIPOC into systems built on ideals of white supremacy and celebrating when they survive those systems. It means building institutions with values and procedures that are meant to give everyone an equal chance to succeed and thrive.
Join Rev. Dr. TLC and her guest, Rev. Michael A. Hunt as they discuss what needs to be done to eradicate racism in higher education. They will examine Rev. Hunt’s journey to developing the Holistic Critical Mentoring theoretical framework, including The McNair Scholars Program & dismantling the GREs (Graduate Record Examinations).
A key to dismantling racism in higher education is to remove barriers that were created to limit racial diversity in higher education and that maintain the status quo of white supremacy.
Rev. Dr. TLc introduces her guest Rev. Michael Hunt. Hunt is an educator and holistic critical mentor. Hunt works with students at the McNair Scholars Program with the University of Maryland. Hunt is studying to obtain his PHD at UMBC for Language Literature and Culture. Hunt shares what keeps him grounded while fighting for justice. Hunt talks about his ancestors and how he looks to them for guidance. Rev. Dr. TLC and Hunt talk about the importance of knowing your ancestors and where you came from. Before the break, Hunt talks about the Mcnair program and how it is geared towards first generation and low income students.
Coming back from the break, Hunt shares what fills his passion in his profession. Connecting with the students' lived experiences brings him back to when he was a student at the program and the mentors who were invested in him. Rev. Dr. TLC and Hunt talk about Hunt’s passion to help others. They went on to discuss the progression of the students and how their test scores are affected. Hunt begins to talk about creating a space where students learn to advocate for themselves. Rev. Dr. TLC and Hunt connect cultural differences and how black children are brought up and conditioned not to advocate for themselves. Before the break Rev. Dr. TLC and Hunt discuss trauma and how it follows and affects you throughout life unless you acknowledge it and learn to do the personal work.
Rev. Dr. TLC and Hunt continue their conversation on stereotype threat. They go on to talk about how trauma can affect a black student's performance and why we should recognize some tests should be out of the curriculum. Hunt talks about UMBC and the resources they are providing for their students to succeed. Before the break, Rev. Dr. TLC and Hunt discussed the importance of understanding the depths of systemic racism.
In this last segment, Rev. Dr. TLC and Hunt discuss more on Hunt’s holistic mentoring model. Hunt talks about how it requires self reflection. He says it centers the voice of the mentee and teaches the mentor. Rev. Dr. TLC and Hunt discuss Hunt’s definition of white supremacy. Before the end of the show, Hunt talks about his silent protest and his disappointment in the education system. Hunt ended the show with wise words: “For all those listening, go knowing that you are more than enough. That you have what it takes. You are surrounded by a community of people that not only loves you but are rooting for you and will also help you in dismantling those things that are hindering your blessing. Go forth knowing you are loved.”
00:03:01.770 --> 00:03:15.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: hello, and welcome to dismantle racism, where our goal is to uncover dismantle and eradicate racism, we really aim to create a world where racial equity is the norm.
00:03:15.300 --> 00:03:36.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc and today we're going to be taking a look at equity in higher education, but before we get started, and I introduce you to today's guest, I want to invite us into a centering moment and, as always, I want you to just take a moment to find your breath.
00:03:37.980 --> 00:03:41.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And to tune in to that which gives you life.
00:03:43.650 --> 00:03:55.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: take a moment to connect with divine wisdom and your sacred intelligence, which is that divine part of you that helps you to make intelligent choices.
00:03:56.850 --> 00:04:00.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in breathe out.
00:04:01.260 --> 00:04:14.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and breathe in the knowledge that these choices manifest your greatness, while helping other people to manifest their greatness, knowing that there is enough abundance and the world for all of us.
00:04:16.500 --> 00:04:25.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and breathe in and breathe out reminding yourself that you are loved and you are love itself.
00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:41.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and breathe out the knowledge that you are a part of the shared humanity and carry within you the power to heal and to be a part of changing the status quo.
00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:59.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in breathe out acknowledging the power of one contributes to the power of Community i'll take a deep breath in sight out and release it and enjoy the show.
00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:17.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we've made a lot of progress in the journey to racial equity in the past decades there are more black students and students of color who are entering and graduated from institutions of higher education than ever before.
00:05:18.090 --> 00:05:29.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But true racial equity and higher education does not mean inserting black indigenous people of color into a system built on ideals of white supremacy.
00:05:30.630 --> 00:05:43.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And celebrating when they survive those systems, it means building institutions with values and procedures that are meant to give everyone an equal chance to succeed and thrive.
00:05:44.190 --> 00:05:52.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, today we're going to be taking a look at institutional practices and some of the things that will help students of color.
00:05:52.500 --> 00:06:07.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Not only just surviving institutions but to really thrive so i'm delighted to have my guest today the Reverend Michael hunt, yes I seem to have a lot of clergy, who come on this show, but he is coming today, in his capacity.
00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:18.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: As an educator and we are really going to examine holistic critical mentoring and he's going to talk about his framework for that he works.
00:06:19.230 --> 00:06:29.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: With students in the McNamara scholars program with the University of Maryland, so we are delighted to have him to come and really take a look at how do we dismantle.
00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:42.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Racism and higher education, particularly as it relates to the programming, that is set up to maintain the status quo, as I said to you, he works for the University of Maryland at baltimore county.
00:06:42.900 --> 00:06:54.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In the mcnair scholars program he is a native of baltimore Maryland and his work focuses on radical inclusion through social justice engagement.
00:06:54.300 --> 00:07:05.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and interfaith meaning making partnership, I think if we're going to engage in social justice, it has to be radical, it cannot be passive, we have to be out here doing the work and so.
00:07:06.270 --> 00:07:19.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am delighted, because he bridges spirituality and science and technology and entered engineering and math stem education by providing culturally nuanced resources.
00:07:19.890 --> 00:07:36.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for increasing self esteem and promoting holistic critical mentoring, as I mentioned, and he is also a PhD student at UN bcs language literacy and culture Reverend Michael welcome welcome welcome to the show today.
00:07:37.890 --> 00:07:53.310 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Thank you, thanks for having me being here i'm i'm excited to talk with you and our first conversation before we agreed to do this, you have me excited and us just connecting so i'm ready for the conversation a little bit further.
00:07:53.520 --> 00:08:09.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, and I know that that our audience is going to really benefit from the conversation that we are having today but rather Mike I always start the show by asking people what grounds, you in this work, because if you're like me, there are some days that i'm just.
00:08:09.870 --> 00:08:10.440 Tired.
00:08:12.990 --> 00:08:14.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: around you so what grounds.
00:08:15.180 --> 00:08:24.360 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): The ancestors I just can't I am I often tell our students is a phrase that i've heard growing up, we stand on the shoulders of giants.
00:08:25.230 --> 00:08:33.420 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And, and I always remind the students, though I add to that I say we stand on the shoulders of giants, but we are to be the shoulder to others, even now.
00:08:34.020 --> 00:08:40.770 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right and not waiting for the two for us to become ancestor so i'm reminded of those who show this evening yesterday.
00:08:41.520 --> 00:08:51.600 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And my the circle that has surrounded me the chain has been broken and and one has gone on, and so I lift his name in the space author welch.
00:08:52.170 --> 00:09:01.410 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Who was a part of my community in my home church that really grounded me in the work that I do and also pushes me to be even a better stuff.
00:09:01.770 --> 00:09:06.990 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And so I remember him and I remember my grandmother bhaskar whole time for me and I call these names.
00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:17.070 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Because these are folks who I know are sitting in the balconies of glory, as we say, you know telling me to keep running to keep fighting the fight even.
00:09:17.310 --> 00:09:28.740 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): When they are those who say that it is for not right there's folks will say that the system will never change and i'm like nah not they put into me what they themselves could not continue to be.
00:09:29.190 --> 00:09:33.030 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And so now and I is up to me, is up to other so we talk about grounded.
00:09:33.330 --> 00:09:53.670 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): All I know i'm on solid ground because of those individuals and I, you know up McMillan from the naacp in baltimore on just people that I know that i've either spent time with i'm growing up or those who, who I know that their their path sort of sets they set the path for me.
00:09:54.060 --> 00:09:56.910 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And so that's that's really what we are, I am grounded.
00:09:57.150 --> 00:10:02.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: wow rubber rubber Mike listen you didn't come to the show to preach but you already started out.
00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:03.030 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): With a sermon.
00:10:03.900 --> 00:10:07.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I know that some people are listening like wait, I want to go here that brother.
00:10:08.220 --> 00:10:09.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Already tell the way.
00:10:09.390 --> 00:10:20.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, and you know I really appreciate this idea of bringing our ancestors into the space because that's that's one of the things that we do.
00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:31.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: As African Americans often will actually as people of the diaspora, let me be very clear about that, where we have these times, where we pour libation to bring.
00:10:31.710 --> 00:10:33.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Those who came before us.
00:10:33.990 --> 00:10:39.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah as far as I know, if it were not for them, I wouldn't be sitting here either so.
00:10:39.120 --> 00:11:01.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, it is so essential to take a look back and say who are those people and how have those people helped to shape you so I so appreciate that grounding because I know for me that there are times when I am feeling weary in addition to my sacred grounding I have to say girl.
00:11:02.730 --> 00:11:04.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know what your people did.
00:11:04.470 --> 00:11:05.460 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): You know right.
00:11:05.820 --> 00:11:07.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So what you're going through.
00:11:07.860 --> 00:11:10.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right right it's like this much compared to.
00:11:10.650 --> 00:11:14.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What they're going through However, I do still honor the experiences that.
00:11:14.580 --> 00:11:17.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, that we go through as well.
00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:22.950 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And can I can I add to that that the students, so I do this with my students when when they first come into the Program.
00:11:23.280 --> 00:11:29.580 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): After they go through orientation they do a one on one meeting with me and my staff and we just sit and talk with the individual students.
00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:34.680 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): and the first thing we have them do is what we just did is to call the people on.
00:11:35.190 --> 00:11:38.250 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Their grounding moment when they first have that meeting with us is.
00:11:38.490 --> 00:11:44.460 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Who are those folks who have laid the foundation, but I want you to think about we often call ancestors, are we here ancestors.
00:11:44.670 --> 00:11:58.350 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And I think that's great, but I also say I want you to think about folks not your parents, because we always call out parents and when we talk about this and we respect and love that but who other other folks right because you got to realize that you are surrounded.
00:11:58.710 --> 00:12:05.400 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And when we recognize that and the enemy recognizes that too, and the enemy wants to make sure that you don't remember those things.
00:12:05.430 --> 00:12:16.560 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So moments come, you have to know who those folks who are grounding you on whether they are alive or have gone on to the other side and so that's a part of like.
00:12:16.950 --> 00:12:24.570 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Even my method of mentoring and teaching students to sort of start there because, like you just said there's gonna be days when you're like.
00:12:25.830 --> 00:12:29.100 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): days are coming yeah you need to be prepared.
00:12:29.550 --> 00:12:36.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know what I see I knew there was a way that we live, we had a kindred spirit here, because when I worked at the high school students.
00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:45.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I would actually do the same thing, just in our groups, we were having processing groups, and I would say, who are the people in your neighborhood or who are your.
00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:50.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: heroes and your she rows and rows because here's the thing.
00:12:51.090 --> 00:13:00.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Particularly from where we sit and we look at education, our stories are not always told, and so it is very important for us.
00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:07.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To help them to know the stories and for us to help them to say that maybe that man that's walking down the street who's cleaning the street.
00:13:07.710 --> 00:13:21.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: know what their story is because that could be the impetus for your greatness you just have to be able to realize that, so I love it because you're incorporating it already into your mentoring program but before we talk to your.
00:13:21.900 --> 00:13:23.250 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): mentors yes, yes, yes.
00:13:23.280 --> 00:13:28.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: there's there's there's so a little bit that I want to know, can you tell us.
00:13:28.950 --> 00:13:49.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You work with mostly first Generation Students as the RON mcnair program first, can you tell us a little bit about what that program really is, and then, if we have time before our first break tell us what fuels your passion in working in this program.
00:13:49.470 --> 00:14:02.730 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): yeah so the rhino III mcnair baccalaureate program scholars program is geared towards getting first gen low income and students who are from excluded racial ethnic groups.
00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:08.670 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And I say historically excluded that's a term that i've starting to us now, instead of minority.
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:26.910 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): That historically excluded and getting them into graduate education, ultimately, to get their PhD and so i'll reach search the green basis and is named after Dr mcnair you know the physicist, the one who perished in the.
00:14:27.930 --> 00:14:36.360 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): The challenger explosion and 86, I believe, and he was, I believe the second to intend to space, I mean just a phenomenal.
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:47.550 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): person scholar extraordinary one of the things people don't know is that you know I wanted to stories that he lost his whole dissertation and has to rewrite it.
00:14:47.640 --> 00:14:50.070 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Again yeah yeah you know doctor.
00:14:51.420 --> 00:14:52.830 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): I know what that means right.
00:14:53.100 --> 00:15:07.830 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So this was that that phenomenal person and so Congress, this was done by an act of Congress and even an act of Congress were strom thurmond was was behind the solute of that and folks if you don't know what that is oh look that up.
00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:10.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right that was that was the act of God.
00:15:10.290 --> 00:15:11.490 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right act of God right.
00:15:11.790 --> 00:15:12.360 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right like.
00:15:12.390 --> 00:15:13.500 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): He was behind that.
00:15:13.710 --> 00:15:29.070 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right so but we literally get them from undergraduate and to graduate school and and they got 10 years is the goal and out we provide them mentoring, we provide them research opportunities so they get funding for research.
00:15:29.640 --> 00:15:38.010 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): They get to travel to conferences and presented conferences, all those things on that helps them to get into graduate school we so sort of.
00:15:39.090 --> 00:15:48.270 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Our program is set up to do that, we have 186 right now, of those funded programs across the country, but each one is individually.
00:15:48.510 --> 00:16:02.070 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): done so it's not like we all do the same and manage this, and we have the main four goals that we all are responsible for, but as grantees are as the the grantees and is each each the way in which we function is different.
00:16:02.190 --> 00:16:04.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Different I do all come together at some.
00:16:04.470 --> 00:16:14.430 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Point so we we have conferences and things were different programs do different things, but we want this to phrase, we often use is talking about us as the mcnair family.
00:16:14.610 --> 00:16:30.150 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So their students know that as they travel their meeting folks in the McMahon family, but then also once a month now, always mcnair and so, even after you graduate on even if you don't go on to graduate school right away, you know there's a sense that you're still a part of the Community.
00:16:30.690 --> 00:16:33.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Okay, so we actually do have to take a break, but when.
00:16:33.300 --> 00:16:33.630 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): We come.
00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:42.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Back I really want to know what what fuels you in this work and how you got interested in the mcnair program itself so.
00:16:42.420 --> 00:16:50.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're going to be right back with dismantle racism i'm your host the Reverend Dr tlc my guest today is the Reverend Michael hut we'll be right back.
00:19:05.040 --> 00:19:12.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with dismantle racism i'm your host Reverend Dr tlc my guest today Reverend Michael hunt.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:28.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Is my guest, and before the break, we were talking about the Ronald mcnair program and all the wonderful work that you do there tell us a little bit about how how you got started in this work, or what fields your passion to work with first gen students.
00:19:29.310 --> 00:19:35.490 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Well, I think the first thing that really say is that I am first gen right, and so, so this population.
00:19:36.060 --> 00:19:42.060 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): I hit all the categories that we serve we serve first gen we serve low income, we serve those from.
00:19:42.780 --> 00:19:55.020 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Historically excluded racial groups and so those three categories I I, I am a living poster of that but, again, it was my mom you know who really surrounded me.
00:19:55.620 --> 00:20:10.650 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): With Community and with people and I often I say it's it was for her sake and my sake right that that was done right and from that I was actually a my a mcnair scholar.
00:20:11.190 --> 00:20:21.270 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): When I was at ubc, and so one of the people there Cynthia hill who the director at the time, and still stays in my life but she's.
00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:36.270 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And she's retired now but she's she's she was one who always connected to the lived experience of our students to and so all my life longevity look she she came to my my.
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:47.730 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): trial sermon she was at my ordination she was when I had my graduation stuff she was there when I got married a few years ago she was there and that kind of connectedness.
00:20:48.300 --> 00:20:57.150 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): was what I knew what was important for me to sort of continue on in the world, and so, although we do things a little differently than our generation.
00:20:57.900 --> 00:21:04.080 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): it's those moments again we stand on the shoulders of giants and that reminder for me that the work that she.
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:18.420 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): has done is something that I want to be a part of, and then I had another mentor Lamont tava, who is now and the gates of glory as well, where, where he was the director of the meyerhoff program that I was a part of which is a similar.
00:21:18.600 --> 00:21:20.220 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): scholar support program at.
00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:26.370 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): ubc, and so I was in both programs, and I remember him, he was a bigger than life person right.
00:21:27.150 --> 00:21:33.150 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And we will just have conversations and there was always these Tyler ISM we will call it will he will say these things.
00:21:33.630 --> 00:21:51.210 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): That we now remember we when we get together or talk to folks and folks remember those things because he care, and so I think a lot of what I do and fueled by is knowing that I was surrounded by a community, but then, also in these kinds of programs I had people to who really cared.
00:21:51.540 --> 00:21:55.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And it actually shows your passion for you NBC for one.
00:21:55.560 --> 00:21:56.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, still.
00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:57.330 coming through.
00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:07.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Your passion for wanting to help more and more and more students so so so let's talk a little bit about.
00:22:08.610 --> 00:22:16.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What you're noticing with the students and what you're noticing surrounding gru scores and and the like.
00:22:18.090 --> 00:22:24.060 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): One of the things that that really hits me when I when I talk about this topic is that.
00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:36.450 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Our students and really think of the populations that I just talked about i'm thinking about all the barriers that are placed on them, even before we talk talking about the gru.
00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:48.180 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right right and and preparing for graduate school and the stories that I have to I navigate with my students and the challenges that they have faced where where.
00:22:49.530 --> 00:22:56.220 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): They had times new people one well two things one we're teaching them how to self advocate.
00:22:57.450 --> 00:23:04.830 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): which I, which is one of the things i'm noticing that students don't do and we're and i'll be honest with you our students don't do because other students.
00:23:05.040 --> 00:23:12.660 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): From the majority background or they those folks are advocating for themselves left and right mom and and told told them how to do that.
00:23:12.930 --> 00:23:13.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right right.
00:23:14.310 --> 00:23:15.840 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): We suffer in silence.
00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:23.490 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): right we even in our the black culture Community there's just tons of keep your business in the House right you don't.
00:23:24.090 --> 00:23:24.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You don't.
00:23:24.330 --> 00:23:38.460 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Tell me don't tell folks on business and even as kids were told to stay out of grown folks business right and so we're trying to figure out that the students are growing up in that, and then like so who do I talk to like i'm suffering.
00:23:38.670 --> 00:23:40.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, so I I.
00:23:40.620 --> 00:23:41.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: want to just jump in here.
00:23:41.850 --> 00:23:42.900 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Please, please, please.
00:23:44.010 --> 00:23:57.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I want to tell you this whole advocacy piece it goes, really, really deep and I love that you said other folks have told their students, like in fact other folks think well, I have the right.
00:23:57.750 --> 00:23:59.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, I have the right to guess.
00:24:00.120 --> 00:24:11.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so you're talking about racism, I think we, we really do have to kind of think about the ways in which our students may not think that they're supposed to go and as now in all fairness i've seen.
00:24:12.750 --> 00:24:22.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: All students have difficulty going to advocate for themselves, but there's something about us as well and it's across institutions.
00:24:22.230 --> 00:24:23.250 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Because I.
00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:30.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: know my my kids and other kids I know who go to hbc you sometimes i'm like did you go and talk to the Professor about this.
00:24:31.110 --> 00:24:38.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Did you, you have to go you can't just make assumptions that your Professor is reading your mind about things, and they don't know.
00:24:38.550 --> 00:24:44.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If you're having difficulties, so I just really want to be very clear and for those people who are listening out here.
00:24:45.690 --> 00:24:56.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You have to have to advocate for yourself and get your children to advocate now I mentioned htc us, but when students are at predominantly white institutions.
00:24:56.730 --> 00:25:05.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And their students of color it's even more difficult for them to find themselves in those spaces, where they go and advocate so if we're going to.
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:15.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: advance the conversation is important for professors, to know that you might have to make a special effort when you're talking to your students.
00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:25.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: invite them into the conversation to invite them in when you're in the classroom and you're even talking because we actually become invisible.
00:25:25.890 --> 00:25:39.900 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): yep yep yep yep yeah and and what I also find is that one that self advocacy and we're trying to do that, to give give that to them, but also there's the sense of i'm.
00:25:40.590 --> 00:25:57.090 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Remembering that, as I stated earlier, that the layers there's layers of stuff that there and I call and be honest with you, I try to be mindful how I use this word, but I want to be honest about it, those layers is trauma.
00:25:57.810 --> 00:26:03.930 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And those layers are things that they themselves don't understand what's happening.
00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:23.580 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): For them, and I say that even as one who had to deal with those layers and multiple communities in my church community in my work community of dealing with trauma, even with from mentors and folks that that that that I had to be able to do self work for myself.
00:26:24.030 --> 00:26:29.670 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): As a staff member before I could even deal with their trauma.
00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:32.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right so so we just need to We just need to breathe.
00:26:32.850 --> 00:26:46.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that one is because here's what I want to say about trauma, particularly as a psychologist is that we often think of trauma, as this, this may be traumatic event that.
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:47.130 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right your.
00:26:47.340 --> 00:26:53.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Experience that's happened, but for us as people of color we get trauma on trauma.
00:26:53.070 --> 00:27:01.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: On trying every single day, and I look, and I see my black brother over here being shot or with a knee on their neck.
00:27:01.170 --> 00:27:07.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That drama, for me, is trauma that i'm living through when I have to see you know.
00:27:07.800 --> 00:27:12.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: stories of injustice is happening, it doesn't have to be someone getting killed.
00:27:12.690 --> 00:27:25.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's trauma, because what it's doing is this reminding me not only of my history is reminding me of my presence it's so if we, as people of color black people in particular would just.
00:27:25.890 --> 00:27:38.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Understand that there's a need for us to do the personal work, then we also can deal with because I heard you say even the trauma from your mentors we can deal with our own internal wise.
00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:44.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, yes, go out on on our kids without knowing right.
00:27:44.760 --> 00:27:55.590 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Yes, yeah and I remember one of my mentors been saying you know, be careful, especially as a pastor that that you you're not pulling your blood out on to the people.
00:27:56.250 --> 00:28:00.450 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right, and so you you've got to you, you have to be mindful of.
00:28:00.600 --> 00:28:14.400 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): That often and and and it's work right but but, but you also got to know that what how you just described, it is important, because I think we want to deal with trauma from the event.
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:32.550 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): But not really seeing it as life essence and how we're journeying um So those are the two things that even for me was important, as I do this work, I had to ground myself in ways and and and and that we'd be honest.
00:28:33.690 --> 00:28:36.240 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): It was my students who often called me out on.
00:28:36.630 --> 00:28:51.930 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): wow right and yet I had but I had to have an openness to hear it, and an openness to change it, yes right because also what we were told to do is when when when when is that because I said so right.
00:28:52.200 --> 00:29:02.670 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): It is what we're used to hearing like that far today and even for me, I was in that space and again when I talk about mentoring and the work that I do, and why this is this work and even the GR reason is important.
00:29:03.060 --> 00:29:14.310 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): is because our we're taught to keep a system in place because that's what we used to and not is it benefiting who is it benefiting and was it not.
00:29:14.580 --> 00:29:34.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So tell us a little bit then about you know the that the gra like what you're noticing about the scores work with your students to maybe even improve or change those those scores because really those scores, are they are keeping a systemic a system of racism right.
00:29:35.370 --> 00:29:48.030 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Well i'll say this because I know we're going to break in a moment, but that there is a a a when you're looking at the barriers students are often dealing with there's sort of like four areas of various dealing with.
00:29:49.050 --> 00:30:04.950 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): The having to take the test in general, so finding the financial resources right to take it now here's here this to mcnair program and just listen to How crazy, this is by the regulation, the Federal regulations we can't pay for test preparation.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:22.050 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So i'm just gonna let that sink in for a second right, so we have to find other alternatives or working in as a workshop or something else, then, providing them direct support for test preparation, but schools are using it for graduate.
00:30:22.560 --> 00:30:25.650 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Practice, you know as well, getting them into graduate school right.
00:30:25.950 --> 00:30:34.110 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So financially so even for us our students have a leg up making their scholars, to some degree, because we have to find funding for them to do those things.
00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:53.460 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): But they have to pay for prep they have to pay to take the test, and they have to pay the 10 send the scores right now here's The other thing, it was the deems right and and the graduate schools that actually went to ETS, to create the test, but guess who's paying for the test.
00:30:55.290 --> 00:31:05.100 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): See that's that's where we're folks you gotta you got to follow the money in this kind of situation right, and then you look at ETS a multibillion dollar.
00:31:06.270 --> 00:31:08.850 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): ready for this nonprofit.
00:31:13.260 --> 00:31:13.830 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And so.
00:31:14.850 --> 00:31:17.460 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So I just so that financial.
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:18.630 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): is huge.
00:31:19.050 --> 00:31:28.560 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): When you look at the stereotype threat where students are trying to perform to their top ability and don't want to be seen as lower or causing you know.
00:31:29.370 --> 00:31:44.130 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): or meeting the what stereotypes say about their particular grouping right so they're dealing with that the stress of test preparation test anxiety all that that's tied into it so there's a multiple of barriers.
00:31:44.340 --> 00:31:51.060 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Then, how students are facing and now with depend dimmick happening, and they couldn't take the test now institutions.
00:31:51.720 --> 00:32:02.520 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Before know we got to have the grb but now they break down now they're saying Oh well, because you can't get to the test we're not going to do so now they're finding alternatives, or why couldn't you.
00:32:03.060 --> 00:32:18.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: couldn't find them before, so we do have to take a quick break, but I want to come back to it, so that you can talk about the other layers as well, and then I also want to just explain that little stereotype threat just a little bit more, because this is a very serious issue that.
00:32:18.930 --> 00:32:36.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Class has talked about for years, whether it's related to race or gender or any of these things and very serious, but I love where we're going with it so we're gonna be right back i'm your host this the dismantle racism show the Reverend Dr tlc we'll be right back.
00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:52.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with dismantle racism and i'm talking today with Reverend Michael hunt, who has really been sharing with us about some of the in equities, as it exists.
00:34:52.710 --> 00:34:56.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for students who are trying to get into graduate school and so before the break.
00:34:57.420 --> 00:35:06.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Reverend Mike you spoke a bit about the GR ease you talked a lot and enlighten us around the financial limitations and who's really making the money.
00:35:07.410 --> 00:35:22.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: From test, taking as well as talking about stereotypes threats and the stress that's also there for students of color and, interestingly enough how we've suddenly decided that we don't need those tests in war.
00:35:23.430 --> 00:35:33.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The thing that I want folks to really kind of understand about stereotype threat and you did you mentioned this and you talked about what goes into it, but.
00:35:33.630 --> 00:35:42.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it's important for folks to realize that even students of color cool have hat and i'm going to talk about.
00:35:42.630 --> 00:35:54.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Black students in particular because they've shown the research that even middle class black students are outperformed by poor white students on standardized tests.
00:35:54.720 --> 00:36:02.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and presumably they've had the same sorts of training as middle class white folks but what stereotype threat is is the amount of.
00:36:03.450 --> 00:36:12.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The additional stress that we take into the situation when we're taking a test and some of that has to do with like.
00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:22.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Am I going to pass this test what are they going to think of me as a black person if I don't pass it says it's like the extra stuff that we carry with us, and I think.
00:36:23.220 --> 00:36:33.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that most people don't realize the extra stress that we carry around all people experience it, but we experience about 25 to 50% more stress.
00:36:34.350 --> 00:36:55.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: than whites do, and so I thank you for bringing that out in terms of the stereo type threat piece, as is so significant, which is why we got to have alternatives to getting into graduate schools, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, so there were there other things that you were going to add about.
00:36:55.710 --> 00:36:59.190 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So I think the only other thing was that.
00:37:00.990 --> 00:37:14.910 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): When I was talking about the pandemic and us being able to change it's not necessarily that they're realizing we don't need the test, but it is that they're recognizing, why do we have the test.
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:34.320 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right and and and I am working with departments on our campus on one in particular where we're trying to find funding for for this particular project, where they are wanting to they know that quantitative skills is important and and even over the break over this over the summer.
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:45.930 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): This past year, what they did was they for the incoming PhD students, and this is all public policy and i'm just so proud of what they are doing with this work.
00:37:46.530 --> 00:37:58.230 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): That they they actually sent a email or information to incoming students, so they didn't count that era, but they said hey, this is what we know the need quantitatively.
00:37:58.560 --> 00:38:01.320 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Where do you fit on the scale and it was a self assessment.
00:38:01.770 --> 00:38:12.390 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And then they provided them resources online YouTube or on Khan academy type things those online resources say Okay, if you need help with this, this is what you need to do right.
00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:22.830 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): On top of that they now also, I believe, have a tutor that works with students and those particular classes that they coming in that were struggling in certain areas.
00:38:23.430 --> 00:38:33.090 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So again, they remove the barrier from the student right and so we're going to help you with bring you in, and we want you to finish so that's The other thing that people talk about.
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:43.470 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): As well just because and again gra doesn't test whether they do well in graduate school, as opposed to be a correlation between their first year grades, is what they're saying.
00:38:43.770 --> 00:38:55.080 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): But oftentimes We know, and this is one thing that i've heard often and and and we talked about, especially to be a black man there's a saying that black men don't finish.
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:56.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: mm hmm.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:05.430 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right, particularly when you think about graduate education and, if you look at the numbers it tells that story that we get them in but do they actually complete.
00:39:06.180 --> 00:39:21.510 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right and so, so the work that needs to be happening is not just the entrance to the to the institution right but it's the retention and the follow through and Ottoman and, ultimately, the degree of the giving of the degree.
00:39:23.100 --> 00:39:29.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I have to ask you there then then two things from this until if the gru are not used.
00:39:30.120 --> 00:39:38.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What are some of the guidelines, then for students get in So how will they distinguish what we don't have this to us.
00:39:38.580 --> 00:39:53.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: As a qualifier So what are they doing, and secondly, what would be some of the things that are needed to help people stay in school, and I imagine that your holistic critical mentoring program speaks about that.
00:39:53.790 --> 00:39:59.460 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So part part of the work in this for us is to get institutions.
00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:02.490 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): To see that.
00:40:04.770 --> 00:40:09.180 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): The way I phrase, it is that higher education is full of smartphones.
00:40:11.070 --> 00:40:15.480 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): can't we just sit down and have conversations, instead of relying on etfs to do it.
00:40:16.590 --> 00:40:31.620 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right and that's what happened last week, I met with the graduate program directors at ubc I also met with our research department or research committee on campus and gave her a presentation on on this, and from that you started hearing people throwing out ideas.
00:40:33.030 --> 00:40:38.760 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And when I met when I first brought this up to our institution, I brought it up because of several things black lives matter.
00:40:39.540 --> 00:40:51.720 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right, the death of George Florida i've always been an activist growing up, I was a part of the naacp did didn't major work as a student, but you know i'm not in the streets like I used to be.
00:40:52.230 --> 00:41:02.310 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): right with that kind of work and but, yet this work is that work right and I had to figure out what could I do so i'm not pushing this discontinued into your ears.
00:41:02.640 --> 00:41:10.320 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): also send it my students voices, because these are the stories i'm not saying what I went through i'm telling you their experiences.
00:41:10.590 --> 00:41:12.120 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And, based on what they're going through.
00:41:12.150 --> 00:41:23.700 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Even in this moment not 20 years ago when I was going through the situation right i'm talking about today, and so from all of that institutions need to really do a soul searching.
00:41:24.270 --> 00:41:35.760 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Ryan and figure out what is what are they seeking right, what are the skills they're looking for so that's why I loved our public policy was doing like they literally centered the voices of their students.
00:41:36.060 --> 00:41:43.440 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): To say Okay, what do you need I and then what they need to do, which they haven't been able to do because they the university.
00:41:44.010 --> 00:42:01.320 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Funding for credit Fund money needs to be allocated right and once they start realizing where the money is again they're not paying ETS anything but our students are paying them close to three $400 just to get the test and the test scores.
00:42:02.430 --> 00:42:04.650 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right already like you said or.
00:42:05.040 --> 00:42:08.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: equity right there because Where are you getting $300 from.
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:09.030 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right.
00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:13.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If you are coming from poverty, already Where are you getting that from.
00:42:13.740 --> 00:42:22.800 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right right right and tell me that stereotype threat like multiple my students taking tests, the day before, where they had to work 12 hour shifts.
00:42:22.890 --> 00:42:25.620 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Yes, right or where they had to.
00:42:26.970 --> 00:42:27.960 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): find a babysitter.
00:42:28.890 --> 00:42:37.440 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And even had to reschedule test because they couldn't find a babysitter canceled on mm hmm right, these are stories from from our students nationwide.
00:42:38.040 --> 00:42:51.720 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): right that they're not listening to but they when they decided to make changes to policies they decided to talk to the deans right and to even though McMahon directors right and the thing the Games, you know i'm making six figures.
00:42:51.930 --> 00:42:54.960 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): mm hmm and when was the last time they took the test.
00:42:55.290 --> 00:42:56.010 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right.
00:42:56.400 --> 00:43:06.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know what I will say, one of the things that i'm encouraged about that you are speaking on today with with what you all, are doing with your public policy.
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:11.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: One of the things that we witnessed in 2020 was people throwing money.
00:43:12.120 --> 00:43:29.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: At situations, but not understanding the depth and the level of systemic racism and what needs to happen in order to change a system money doesn't do everything listen when we came out of enslavement they they promised us 40 acres and a mule right.
00:43:29.370 --> 00:43:30.840 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): and wait wait.
00:43:31.140 --> 00:43:35.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But, but it means that 40 acres and a mule they understood that maybe you could do a little.
00:43:35.640 --> 00:43:36.750 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): bit of something.
00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:45.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right yeah when when you throw money at a situation, but then you don't prepare the people.
00:43:45.240 --> 00:43:59.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: As you say, tension after how many stories have we heard of students who got full funding to college $200,000 to get to college and then got to college and we're not retained because.
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:05.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They didn't know they were they were like a fish out of water so talk to us a little bit then about your.
00:44:07.020 --> 00:44:09.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know your historical critical mentoring.
00:44:10.140 --> 00:44:19.200 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Progress so so so part of the work that i've been doing, to be honest with you has been changing changing the conversation.
00:44:19.890 --> 00:44:31.290 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And part of changing that conversation requires us an essence to rethink what we did, and it really honestly It started with me when I first came into the institution.
00:44:32.160 --> 00:44:41.820 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): I did not, I did not send her my students and I was mentoring, the way I was, I was being mentored and it wasn't necessarily the what they actually need it.
00:44:42.330 --> 00:45:01.620 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And so, as i've been began doing my PhD work, I just want to share with you my definition of how i've defined holistic critical mentoring is defined as a network of inclusive reciprocal relationships between mentees and mentors that centers the voices and values, the mentees whole being.
00:45:03.390 --> 00:45:21.330 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): A holistic critical mentoring htm is what I refer to it as is an ongoing process of learning from the mentees and mentors collective lived experiences, while challenging and disrupting white supremacy and racism exhibited within wife normative interpretation of professionalism.
00:45:22.590 --> 00:45:24.510 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And so, this isn't just about.
00:45:25.560 --> 00:45:38.790 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And what i'm trying to get institutions to see is that this holistic critical mentoring, the model that we have isn't just about the one on one mentoring experience it's a collective experience that even we, as institutions can begin to dive into.
00:45:40.170 --> 00:45:46.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: mm hmm so you know we're at a break, I want you to say more about that as.
00:45:47.190 --> 00:45:54.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you mean by the institution really diving into the mentoring program and I thank you so much, because I believe I said historical as.
00:45:54.900 --> 00:45:57.630 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): yeah yeah no no and that's why this is going to be historical.
00:45:57.660 --> 00:45:57.870 I.
00:45:59.490 --> 00:46:01.230 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Think about it, and I believe, yes, think.
00:46:01.230 --> 00:46:15.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: About even just the history of needing that to be a part of the holistic program so you're going to come back and talk a little bit more about your program after the break this is dismantle racism i'm Reverend Dr tlc we'll be right back.
00:48:16.140 --> 00:48:33.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are back with dismantle racism, I have been delighted to talk today with Reverend Michael hunt and we've been talking about in equities in higher education and Dr hunt well soon, soon to be Dr hot i'll put it.
00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:35.220 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): name it claim it come on out.
00:48:35.310 --> 00:48:36.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why me right now.
00:48:36.390 --> 00:48:50.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah you were talking about to heal this take mentoring program before the show so continue to tell us a little bit about that program and how you see institutions as the mentor.
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:57.180 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So so so i'm one of the things i've been intentional about there's not calling it a program.
00:48:58.050 --> 00:49:12.000 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Okay, and more so, a model for folks to and and and the conceptual model in that sense, but i'm for folks to be able to consider how they weave in aspects of this into their programs right.
00:49:12.660 --> 00:49:25.260 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So it's not a cut and dry like, here we go let's do this thing it really requires what we did this whole conversation is what what my process was in this which you had us doing some self reflection.
00:49:25.650 --> 00:49:31.530 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right and this there wasn't a let's just get down to work right it's like we gotta we gotta build up.
00:49:32.310 --> 00:49:38.280 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): To where we're going and that's what this model calls you to do so, first thing is there's several tenants, and I just want to.
00:49:38.550 --> 00:49:45.090 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): highlight the tenants it acknowledges that race and racism and white supremacy impacts mentees.
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:57.600 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And mentors on programs and institutions right so it's not just me that is there's aspects of the mint tea or the mentor right all of us are impacted by this.
00:49:57.870 --> 00:50:04.680 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Is centers the voices and experiences of a mentor mentee right so oftentimes is top down with a mentor voice.
00:50:04.950 --> 00:50:14.520 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Is you go and talk to the mentor to see what they can give instead of know it with flipping this dynamic right i'm supposed to holistic needs of the mentee right.
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:23.670 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And so it understand their mental physical spiritual financial academic career all of that is important part of the mentors mentees experiences.
00:50:24.030 --> 00:50:32.490 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): But then it requires reciprocity right, where we are sharing of ideas and engaged and and giving and taking and.
00:50:32.730 --> 00:50:43.830 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And really building something, and not one where i'm just taking from the mentor as a mentee or the mentors just giving etc know we're all in this together, and then advice, the mentees and mentors.
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:57.720 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): To collectively bring their culture and lived experience to the mentoring relationship we don't leave that at the door we bring that all to the table, while also challenging the white normative interpretation of professionalism.
00:50:58.110 --> 00:51:10.650 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right and and we get stuck on what is professional right and what professionalism looks like etc, and we force our mentees to do that and I was forced into that and I forced my students into it, I was like oh wait.
00:51:11.130 --> 00:51:20.100 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): something's gotta change, we need to rethink what this means to be professional right, and then it creates that network so again, this is a lot of work, but you can't do it on your own.
00:51:20.490 --> 00:51:27.570 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): So creates a network of mentor relationships to support the mint mint tea right so it's not just all on this one mentor.
00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:35.280 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Or that we do this, but then it finally it recognizes the mentee as a budding expert within their content area.
00:51:35.700 --> 00:51:48.720 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right so, is it again they they're coming with their lived experience and not just the live experience I when i'm looking at my mentees and some of the stuff that they do I mean I learned so much from them that i'm like wait, how you do that.
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:51.750 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): You know teach me.
00:51:52.020 --> 00:52:00.090 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And you know this right and i'm open to that and they know oh yeah I have a teaching session with Michael right, I even tried to move away from saying, Mr hunt.
00:52:00.420 --> 00:52:02.610 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): At times, you know to say Michael right let's.
00:52:02.610 --> 00:52:07.620 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Just let's just talk, because I, you know I got I know people who call me, Mr hunt and don't respect me.
00:52:08.010 --> 00:52:09.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right right.
00:52:09.810 --> 00:52:18.240 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And so the name thing isn't about the respect to me this The relationship is what we have there that matters to me, and these are all lessons that i've learned.
00:52:18.570 --> 00:52:28.860 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): As i'm mentoring and I believe institutions can can institute these even as we talk about the GL reason, for instance, are they being mindful of the needs of the students, that they are.
00:52:29.520 --> 00:52:40.320 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): they're doing this with Are they really thinking outside the box, so they recognize that first thing that how race and racism and white supremacy is is i'm Todd all up in the standardized testing.
00:52:40.530 --> 00:52:42.990 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right um so i'll stop there.
00:52:43.200 --> 00:52:48.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, each of those tenants, I mean that's it's fantastic I mean, even if you just think about the first one.
00:52:48.600 --> 00:53:00.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: For institutions to think about how it's impacting them because often people don't think about white people don't think about how white supremacy and.
00:53:01.020 --> 00:53:09.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: systemic racism are impacting them they're losing out to now, one thing I think that I would love for you to do, because I know.
00:53:09.990 --> 00:53:20.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This is one of the challenges I have when i'm teaching or when i'm writing and I use phrases like white supremacy and people will go well i'm not a white supremacy i'm wearing a white blood.
00:53:20.640 --> 00:53:25.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: rob tell us what your definition of white supremacy is.
00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:29.220 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): For me why supremacy is.
00:53:30.240 --> 00:53:34.830 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): When white people don't let me rephrase it is when.
00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:41.160 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): We are set up in a situation that empowers white people over others.
00:53:41.310 --> 00:53:51.840 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): hmm right, and so, and so, sometimes when when when I explain this to folks i'm not saying like you just said, I i'm not saying that you.
00:53:52.290 --> 00:54:08.790 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Are the cause, or you are, you know, could we like to tie it into racist you're being received your your White supremacy know there are things that you benefit from right that that we continue to continue continue to perpetuate even as black folks.
00:54:08.850 --> 00:54:14.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, I was going to say that it's also important for us to know that we perpetuate.
00:54:14.190 --> 00:54:17.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Those things as well, because we, we think, why does better.
00:54:18.930 --> 00:54:21.720 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Well, well well and we unintentionally thinking.
00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:22.980 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): To the exact right so.
00:54:23.850 --> 00:54:25.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And that's a whole nother show.
00:54:25.200 --> 00:54:25.740 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Another show.
00:54:27.300 --> 00:54:30.540 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): When you just said, like my sign up here so y'all see the white white.
00:54:31.590 --> 00:54:44.490 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Dismantling Weiss, it goes on the side there we go dismantling white supremacy right, I put this up, I was in a meeting over the summer last summer around with after the July 4 thing a group of us got together to talk about.
00:54:45.930 --> 00:54:53.670 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): What we're going through, and these are really black folks in a group i'm in and one of the sisters in the group had this up, so this is not even mine initially right.
00:54:54.120 --> 00:55:03.810 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): She had it up and we like, but we in the zoom were like oh my gosh you got to send us that so she sent it to us and At first it was my silent protest right in every meeting.
00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:11.820 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): I was in whether on here on zoom, whether in webex on Google wouldn't let me be great cool with it and let you add your own thing.
00:55:12.150 --> 00:55:17.970 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): At the moment, right going back around right but, but all the other places I headed up, and it was just solid protests.
00:55:18.750 --> 00:55:28.140 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): But then over the summer, as i'm working with my students I realized how much even as the director of a program.
00:55:29.100 --> 00:55:42.450 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): That I am empower and that I can either continue to hold up white supremacy in the the rules and the deadline things that are set up to manage the program and even how I.
00:55:42.840 --> 00:56:00.300 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): advocate for the students and what I advocate for a walk take on, am I, and so it became really like a what I call a mirror every time I look at this now every meeting I men is not about Joe and some of your some folks in and things about them know it's about me.
00:56:00.510 --> 00:56:02.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What what you need to do what.
00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:03.030 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): I need to do.
00:56:03.390 --> 00:56:13.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right that is so so powerful and you know, I think that what folks have to understand is in this work to dismantle racism.
00:56:13.380 --> 00:56:22.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It is about the individual looking inward to say what do I need to do to be a part of changing the system.
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:29.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And like you said nobody's saying well you're the races you're this you're that know what do you need to do, and so.
00:56:29.820 --> 00:56:45.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I think if we take that fear out of taking a look at ourselves and I think that institutions can do a better job and institutions would would benefit more if they began to take a look at themselves so listen up you know rather Mike.
00:56:48.720 --> 00:56:50.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To the end here.
00:56:51.210 --> 00:56:58.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Are their final things that you want to add either about the program that the mcnair program or.
00:56:59.850 --> 00:57:05.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Your holistic critical mentoring program in our in our final few seconds here.
00:57:06.270 --> 00:57:20.310 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): I often tell people that the work that I do i'm happy I love my job I love the students that I work with their lived experiences learning from them, I grow every day, and yet i'm disappointed.
00:57:21.990 --> 00:57:24.600 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): i'm disappointed because we still need mcnair Program.
00:57:26.250 --> 00:57:31.770 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): we've been around for this is our 30th year at ubc and i'm like, why are we still relevant.
00:57:33.240 --> 00:57:48.660 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Right, so we are, like you, you cannot take this program away from these institutions like i'm grateful for us in all the trio the federal atrial program upward bound and and talents are all of that is needed in this moment but.
00:57:50.130 --> 00:58:00.270 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And so that's the work of the institutional leadership and one of the thing my my my professor, we talked about this semester we're reminding folks that institutions is made up of people.
00:58:00.600 --> 00:58:06.870 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): yeah so sometimes we feel this word institution around and just lay oh institution to that, and no one changes anything.
00:58:07.680 --> 00:58:09.780 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And we're we're i'm trying to push folks to think of.
00:58:10.050 --> 00:58:20.370 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Okay, you are in power and in leadership let's have the conversations let's make some changes let's do something, because we represent the institution.
00:58:20.790 --> 00:58:28.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, well you know forever Mike i'm so glad that you were with us today, and so glad that you're calling us to raise it up.
00:58:28.500 --> 00:58:28.740 Right.
00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:30.180 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Yes.
00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:39.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And that you're calling on institutions and individuals to recognize the individual so remember Mike if you would tell us how we can get in touch with you.
00:58:39.540 --> 00:59:05.460 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): um I would love i'm on all social media platforms and so you can look me up there, and if you want to take a look at my my link tree i'm link tree slash Michael a punt on it has all my information, there link Li n K te R dot E backward slash Michael a hunt you'll find me there.
00:59:05.850 --> 00:59:08.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Okay, and could you please just leave us with a blessing for.
00:59:09.510 --> 00:59:17.190 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): Yes, yes for those are listening and and for us in this space go, knowing that you are more than enough.
00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:20.490 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): That you have what it takes.
00:59:21.600 --> 00:59:39.660 Michael Hunt, (he, his, him): And that you are surrounded by a community of people who not only love you but are rooting for you and will also help you in the dismantling of those things that are hindering your blessings will go forth knowing that you are loved.
00:59:40.200 --> 00:59:44.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah Thank you so so much, thank you for joining us today.
00:59:44.700 --> 01:00:00.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Reverend hot i'm delighted that you were with us, this has been dismantle racism with your host the Reverend Dr tlc please stay tuned for the conscious consultant hour with Sam liebowitz, we will see you next time be well be safe, be encouraged bye for now.