Frank About Health "Dares To Care" with Dr. Jan Bonhoeffer in Switzerland while Frank will be here in New York discussing his book of the same name. This episode promises to awaken our consciousness about the Health Care System. He will discuss his background in pediatrics and emergency management in addition to Immunology on Infectious Diseases and Vaccine Safety.
He will provide highlights about his book that dares to challenge the assumptions that we make about the healthcare system and whether it is fit for purpose. It is an invitation to think, act and practice medicine in a whole new way. He has witnessed healthcare professionals around the world experiencing burnout and their suffering is having a negative impact on patient safety, especially during Pandemic circumstances.
The book dares to redefine the patient-doctor relationship and the book will teach with an approach not learned in medical school which is to infuse loving kindness and compassion into their training, education and eventual practice. Dr. Jan says it is time for all of us to Dare To Care!
Frank starts the episode by introducing his guest Dr. Jan Bonhoeffer, the two quickly talk about shared interests and shared experience the two connect with. Dr. Bonhoeffer shares his passions and what led him to this profession in life. Dr. Bonhoeffer gives his professional background and the different types of work he has been involved in over the past twenty years. The two talk about some of Dr. Bonhoeffer’s previous work in creating a better environment for the patients and their family when faced with tragedy. Dr. Bonhoeffer talks about how love is one of the most healing tactics he has seen. The two explain that compassion and this emphasis on healing through love is not spoken about nearly enough.
Frank brings to light a huge part of Dr. Bonhoeffer’s book on how to treat each patient as an individual and with compassion. Dr. Bonhoeffer talks about mindfulness and how that will give a sense of consciousness to interpret a situation in a different manner, and to bring a sort of awakeness to the medical care specialists. Frank talks about how when he was seen as a patient he appreciates it more when the doctor and him seem as if they are working together on healing the problem. The two talk about the decision of treatment should be based on what the patient wants rather than shooting to a single method.
Dr. Bonhoeffer talks about the difference between healing strictly from compassion and strictly from medicine, the two talk about the resilience that these two build when used together. Dr. Bonhoeffer talks about how important it is to promote your own health when pursuing a healthcare profession. He explains how an individual can promote themselves when they have nothing to back up their promotion. He further explains that a person has to find the balance where a person is not in a state of neediness. Dr. Bonhoeffer explains that there are different aspects of his book that are written to be workable for both the patient and the healthcare worker.
Frank talks about Dr. Bonhoeffer’s take on immunizations especially with being a professional in that field during the COVID19 pandemic. Dr. Bonhoeffer talks about how the vaccines should be viewed with the third booster dose coming out recently. The two talk about using inner strengths and gifts to own your healthcare. Frank focuses on empathy and its relation to healthcare workers. They share their understanding that everyone will have different opinions on the third dose of the vaccine and should be respected for each individual. With one last boast, Frank shares his admiration for Dr. Bonhoeffer’s book and thinks that many could benefit from making this reading course material for up in coming healthcare professionals.
00:00:52.830 --> 00:01:02.280 Frank R. Harrison: Greetings, ladies and gentlemen, my loyal listeners and viewers on Facebook live, this is frank are Harrison, right here on this episode of frank about health.
00:01:02.670 --> 00:01:15.420 Frank R. Harrison: On talk radio dot nyc and i'm here today still with our day of compassion healing if you've heard the last hour my guests Leo Tomlinson, two weeks ago was talking about what it was like.
00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:21.930 Frank R. Harrison: To understand the value of compassionate healing from his doctors, which prevented him from committing suicide.
00:01:22.320 --> 00:01:33.120 Frank R. Harrison: And today, we continue that spectrum with our special guest Dr yon been heifer who actually has experienced dealing more with a pediatric patient but.
00:01:33.510 --> 00:01:45.510 Frank R. Harrison: With his most recent research experience in immunology and vaccine safety with the NIH and with special committees, when he was working on the H1 and one virus, as well as becoming a teacher.
00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:54.150 Frank R. Harrison: from Switzerland this this show was actually my first international show he's at the University of bazell in Switzerland, where he teaches.
00:01:54.510 --> 00:02:00.000 Frank R. Harrison: About compassionate healing, which is something he learned during his research and during his practice.
00:02:00.420 --> 00:02:09.450 Frank R. Harrison: Today, on frank about health i'm going to be frank about what it's like to dare to care, as you can see, that is the name of his book.
00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:17.970 Frank R. Harrison: But daring to care is more than just medicine and more than just treatment methodologies it's actually about using your heart.
00:02:18.270 --> 00:02:29.820 Frank R. Harrison: In the ability to show love and compassion and empathy when treating your patient, regardless of their age, and so talk to you on bond that so i'm going to call you on your end but.
00:02:31.410 --> 00:02:39.540 Frank R. Harrison: Thank you for being here, this is a treat for me, this is my first international show, and I really interested to learn more about.
00:02:40.140 --> 00:02:50.790 Frank R. Harrison: Your book, as well as your immunology practice rather research and just in general, thank you for coming that's, all I can say at the moment, welcome to frank about help.
00:02:51.480 --> 00:03:06.150 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Well, thank you so much, frank it's a great honor to be here, this is probably the most heartwarming introduction i've had in 20 years of talking at you know, conferences and there's all very kind of objectified so thank you it's beautiful it's a great honor to be here.
00:03:06.690 --> 00:03:14.250 Frank R. Harrison: Oh it's my pleasure at as I people have listened to my previous shows, I mean I personally am an epilepsy survivor.
00:03:14.550 --> 00:03:22.620 Frank R. Harrison: I know what it was like to treat my father during cancer, and I mean during Colvin when he was actually recovering from cancer and doing what I can well.
00:03:23.010 --> 00:03:29.370 Frank R. Harrison: In quarantine preventing him from getting that you know the disease, which could have made his cancer recovery.
00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:40.380 Frank R. Harrison: In the negative direction, so I have just developed from my own experience the understanding that empathy and advocacy first for yourself and then for others.
00:03:40.770 --> 00:03:55.260 Frank R. Harrison: But that has been that has made me a natural healer of sorts but i'm not a professional doctor, but when I read snippets of your book in the last few days, I I just identified with you completely so it's my pleasure to have you here today.
00:03:56.700 --> 00:03:57.240 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Why didn't you.
00:03:57.270 --> 00:04:08.010 Frank R. Harrison: Tell me a little oh you're very welcome why don't you tell me a little bit first about what interested you in medicine, was it the research or was it treating patients.
00:04:10.290 --> 00:04:10.920 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: i'd was.
00:04:11.970 --> 00:04:32.730 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: I believe it the first spark was the fascination about the nature of the human being, about life, and it was looking down the microscope and seeing this amazing just unfolding of this creation and it was I was just enthusiast and wanted to know more and.
00:04:34.290 --> 00:04:46.740 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So that was certainly what really kept me going and the other part, was that I worked as a paramedic before I studied and so i've seen a lot of things that I don't really wish anybody needs to see.
00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:52.230 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And i've learned a lot of tricks about saving lives and.
00:04:52.680 --> 00:05:06.510 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: At some point, I felt well you know it's nice to know the tricks, but I really wanted to dig deeper and understand better what is it that i'm actually doing here, and how does this actually work, how does the human body work, so there was a really deep interest and.
00:05:07.770 --> 00:05:20.190 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: The third element was that I always love to be with people being with people and in a heartfelt open trusted environment was always it always gave me energy.
00:05:20.820 --> 00:05:24.210 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And it was always energizing enthusing it felt alive.
00:05:24.630 --> 00:05:41.610 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So in medicine, I thought wow both of those parts actually come together, I can be with people, and this we can share this beautiful experience of being alive and and then, in my studies, I can learn about how does all of this work and kind of you know play the mental sudoku here.
00:05:41.820 --> 00:05:43.170 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: But Dr house game.
00:05:44.010 --> 00:05:58.380 Frank R. Harrison: understood understood now, as I, as I looked through your background you first were in P of emergency management and pediatrics and then pivoted towards immunology research or was it all combined.
00:05:59.280 --> 00:06:07.950 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: But it started with kind of working as a paramedic and then I went into the pediatric training and then, as I evolved in the pediatric training I added the research part to it.
00:06:08.580 --> 00:06:18.270 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And that led me to work in infectious diseases and vaccines, and so I worked and built, one of the larger.
00:06:19.200 --> 00:06:34.860 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Independent vaccine safety networks, where we were bringing together researchers from all around the planet from all professional backgrounds and we're striving to see can we really get vaccine arrive at vaccine safety data that we can trust.
00:06:35.280 --> 00:06:44.250 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Right, and so this was the last 20 years of my work and then this was good, this is what got me to work with the CDC in the US and the FDA and then ah and.
00:06:45.330 --> 00:06:51.480 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: With with the World Health Organization to ECC in Europe and many other national health company authorities.
00:06:52.050 --> 00:06:55.620 Frank R. Harrison: So is this already post graduate from Medical School or where.
00:06:55.620 --> 00:06:55.980 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: you're.
00:06:56.130 --> 00:06:57.570 Frank R. Harrison: going through training, at the same time.
00:06:58.020 --> 00:07:06.540 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: No, no, this was kind of as it started during residency I started with some kind of similar studies and then we're building up this network and.
00:07:07.890 --> 00:07:12.840 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Then they went through attending and until I became a professor and kind of the usual.
00:07:14.010 --> 00:07:15.300 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Academic accolades.
00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:17.250 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: yeah this is.
00:07:18.390 --> 00:07:18.900 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: awesome.
00:07:19.230 --> 00:07:27.930 Frank R. Harrison: Now I was reading also in the book about how while you were coming up with the concept of treating your patients and doing your research.
00:07:28.380 --> 00:07:45.420 Frank R. Harrison: You came up with the understanding that in Medical School a lot of the training just skips the part of the empathy, which is the most crucial part, so what triggered you to really master that missing link and turn it into a book that is now available on amazon.com I get it right.
00:07:46.050 --> 00:07:46.920 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Yes, correct.
00:07:46.950 --> 00:07:47.910 Frank R. Harrison: yeah so.
00:07:51.270 --> 00:08:04.290 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: There were many points many sort of small pivoting points there were then kind of building up so as I was getting deeper and deeper into research and I got deeper and deeper into kind of objectifying life and people.
00:08:05.310 --> 00:08:18.660 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And I felt increasingly great about you know, making a diagnosis and until I realized at some point that actually making a diagnosis, particularly helps me to understand and categorize life.
00:08:19.170 --> 00:08:26.970 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: right but it very rarely actually helps the patient it rarely actually does much for the patient, other than kind of having a stamp on it on the front.
00:08:28.020 --> 00:08:40.050 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: and actually not knowing what it means, and so from the patient perspective I realized that whatever whatever we're looking at together really looks very different and.
00:08:41.340 --> 00:08:51.990 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: There was one moment that was that really kind of completely changed my life, while I had seen so many people die in as a paramedic and then, when I worked in India.
00:08:52.500 --> 00:09:02.070 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: During the measles outbreak and I worked in in the UK, during a meningitis outbreak and so i've seen lots and lots and lots of kids die, but there was one moment.
00:09:03.030 --> 00:09:12.450 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: With a nine month old baby girl here in Basel and she had a muscular disease, so a neuromuscular disease and so basically.
00:09:13.350 --> 00:09:25.860 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: She had not a lot of force and not a lot of muscle strength so she had a common cold what is a common cold to to us, and she couldn't get rid of the phlegm because you didn't have a cough impulse you couldn't really get rid of it.
00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:32.520 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And for many babies with this illness, it means we don't really know if they're going to survive or not.
00:09:33.660 --> 00:09:45.090 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And so here was this baby that that then ultimately I was fortunate, I was privileged to actually be there when she was leaving her body.
00:09:46.560 --> 00:09:51.570 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And it was a really, really deeply moving moment because.
00:09:53.430 --> 00:10:15.630 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Not just because it's a baby boy a baby girl dying, but it is, it was the way that everything was set up, so we knew that this was pending, and it was a real possibility that she was going to die, and so we created an environment for the family to be there in the hospital that.
00:10:17.400 --> 00:10:28.320 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: was a little different to the regular hospital environment so very much In contrast, or in learn from covert right now, where nobody was allowed to be there when their beloved were alone and struggling and possibly dying.
00:10:28.980 --> 00:10:32.850 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So we tried exactly the opposite, so we were actually kind of switching off the.
00:10:33.270 --> 00:10:40.770 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: The neon lights were ringing in candles and we had adult beds and recreated this little area where the parents could be with their baby girl and.
00:10:41.310 --> 00:10:58.800 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: We had sense in the room, and we created that was very gentle music as really, really beautiful and the parents were there very good friend of them was there a beautiful setting, and this has it was beautiful passing as tragic, as it was that moment.
00:10:59.880 --> 00:11:11.130 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: was actually very beautiful, it was a transition that everybody felt like while this was a moment of death of a party, it was in a way, a healing moment for everybody involved.
00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:27.090 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And this has connected me with the family, and it has started the family to start a foundation to actually be there for other parents who are losing their children, so this was a very strong moment where I felt I really.
00:11:28.110 --> 00:11:37.290 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: I realized that the most important healing force that we have the most important healing power that we have on the planet is love.
00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:47.040 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And I hadn't heard anything about this in medical school and there wasn't anything on the web page of the World Health Organization.
00:11:47.400 --> 00:11:50.310 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And so I started to question that's why, why is that.
00:11:51.540 --> 00:11:57.630 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And the more I started asking and talking to other colleagues to patients to friends.
00:11:59.490 --> 00:12:01.500 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Everybody said yeah you actually you're right.
00:12:03.660 --> 00:12:13.800 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Actually right and actually when I started to ask kids when they were in hospital I said what was the most important moment for you, while you were here in hospital and now you're better.
00:12:14.340 --> 00:12:31.050 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Right, it was never like oh doctor, you know when you actually gave me that injection with the antibiotic or Oh, thank you for that morphine at the time when I was in pain Yes, that was all appreciate it, I was like the just scratching the surface, it was just the.
00:12:33.060 --> 00:12:34.200 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Just the na the.
00:12:35.400 --> 00:12:37.050 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: The enabling condition.
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.050 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Today, are the healing process, and then it was.
00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:48.870 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: My mother's hand, or you know the moment when I was when I felt so poorly and there was this night guard and.
00:12:49.410 --> 00:13:01.320 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: This nurse, and she just put her hand on my friend and then she had a little cooling something and then I could really let go, so it was the loving attention that the kids had pointed out.
00:13:02.010 --> 00:13:10.050 Frank R. Harrison: So, not only was it cathartic but you were basically under an Epiphany during a transition in life and for an infant.
00:13:11.160 --> 00:13:19.530 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: yeah and then I then I started working with the coach this is this is our June arda who I then worked wrote the book, together with.
00:13:20.010 --> 00:13:20.850 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Right and.
00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.000 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And he helped me go through a vision quest.
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:31.560 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: To to see what is it what is my future path, going to be, and this became very clear to me that.
00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:40.380 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: I cannot do differently was like a calling, you know, like, I tried to save life through vaccines, which is very meaningful thing to do.
00:13:40.830 --> 00:13:42.000 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: and run aliens of lives can.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:48.690 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: be saved as a vaccine so that's a very meaningful thing to do, and yet I felt as much there's one virus.
00:13:49.980 --> 00:14:06.960 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: As one pandemic of a virus that is way more infectious than delta what we're seeing right now is one virus that is spreading far better and more and is actually affecting every house or let's say almost every healthcare professional certainly me and it's the non love virus.
00:14:07.950 --> 00:14:17.130 Frank R. Harrison: Well, actually, we are about to head for our first break, but this is the perfect point to say that that's when you learned, it is time to dare to care and we will discuss that book.
00:14:17.430 --> 00:14:29.760 Frank R. Harrison: When we return, ladies and gentlemen, stay tuned for the next couple minutes, we will be back with Dr jaan been heifer where we will dare to care, right here on frank about health on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook live state to.
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:46.050 Frank R. Harrison: hey everybody welcome back to this special episode of frank about health I find every episode special these days.
00:16:46.470 --> 00:16:54.060 Frank R. Harrison: Especially the nature of the quality of guests, as far as i'm concerned you're definitely one individual that i'm going to have a follow up with because.
00:16:54.480 --> 00:17:02.160 Frank R. Harrison: I see you literally being an example of not only a doctor and a researcher and a professor.
00:17:02.550 --> 00:17:11.820 Frank R. Harrison: But someone who's really in touch with his consciousness as you heard in the break just know assembly bill wits our our network in.
00:17:12.360 --> 00:17:19.110 Frank R. Harrison: Our station producer, he has his own show on Thursdays, the conscious consultant our awakening humanity.
00:17:19.560 --> 00:17:26.970 Frank R. Harrison: And you just described, an entire scenario about an infant who was passing on was dying because of a.
00:17:27.390 --> 00:17:39.630 Frank R. Harrison: degenerative neural neuromuscular disorder and you found yourself awakening your inner humanity to understand that what is missing, unfortunately, in most healthcare.
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:44.400 Frank R. Harrison: toolkits for the for the health care professional for the medical student.
00:17:44.850 --> 00:17:54.960 Frank R. Harrison: Is the ability to use that point in your heart and in your consciousness, to really help the individual still heal them, even though they're passing on.
00:17:55.290 --> 00:18:03.750 Frank R. Harrison: That is something that I can truly agree with your your statement that it's not taught in medical schools, I think, medical schools are just an educational system that.
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:12.300 Frank R. Harrison: teaches you how to treat the living individual they don't really get to the point of knowing that there is that middle of the road place.
00:18:12.840 --> 00:18:16.980 Frank R. Harrison: That actually has to also be engaged with, especially if their child I presume.
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:32.280 Frank R. Harrison: You know, so it sounds like to me that that book dare to care is becoming now not only a book that everyone must buy it's a must read as far as i'm concerned but it's not going to be probably taught in schools correct or use a methodology.
00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:53.550 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: I wish it was i'm sure that many that many schools are looking into compassionate looking into mindfulness, so this is increasingly embraced by schools and universities, which is beautiful and mindfulness is a is to me is like the gate opener is like the is the threshold into.
00:18:55.530 --> 00:19:00.210 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: It is the beginning of a process where you can find eventually dropped from your mind into your heart.
00:19:01.230 --> 00:19:03.780 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So being mindful as a way to be.
00:19:03.870 --> 00:19:11.640 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: cognizant to be awake I like the the term of wakefulness a little better than mindfulness mine sounds like a little bit of monkey chatter.
00:19:13.590 --> 00:19:20.940 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: kind of a wakefulness being conscious awake alert to actually different aspects and possibilities to perceive the present moment.
00:19:21.540 --> 00:19:39.480 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: right that may allow us to drop into our hearts eventually and and that's what I really that's where I feel true authentic meaningful and deep connections happen and that's what I believe is the only thing that really matters at the time we die.
00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:44.550 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Right and it's the way it is what matters most at times when we suffer.
00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:45.510 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:19:45.570 --> 00:19:49.050 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And it is what elevates me most when i'm joyful.
00:19:49.830 --> 00:19:50.820 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Yes, yes.
00:19:51.690 --> 00:20:04.260 Frank R. Harrison: yeah I think again, like in my in my whole experience in watching personal, family members and friends go through traumas whether they're you know mental traumas or physical traumas.
00:20:04.800 --> 00:20:15.720 Frank R. Harrison: What is very interesting about me is, I find that I instinctively know what's happening, maybe the lot has to do with my my research, especially in the areas of neurological and mental health but.
00:20:16.230 --> 00:20:24.360 Frank R. Harrison: Also, having been a patient multiple times for various issues throughout my life when I talked to my doctors, I talked to them as if we're.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:29.760 Frank R. Harrison: As if not we're colleagues but, as if we're Okay, we got a case here that we're going to work together on.
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:39.930 Frank R. Harrison: And I don't know if that ingrained in me an instinct for having empathy when people are going through health problems, but I can understand the joy that you derive.
00:20:40.260 --> 00:20:52.080 Frank R. Harrison: went like, for example, when you were dealing with a child this week i'll be straightforward my cousin had an emergency surgical procedure on her I that was completely unexpected.
00:20:52.620 --> 00:20:59.430 Frank R. Harrison: But within seconds, we got it accomplished very quickly, because I knew exactly what needed to be done when it had to be done, how quickly what.
00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:06.570 Frank R. Harrison: What financial resources we had who were the right doctors to do it, it was like an automatic response for me an automatic trigger.
00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:25.830 Frank R. Harrison: But you being a professional doctor, as well as a researcher and a professor of this field, I can see how you would be catalytic Lee able to bring about a new methodology that I believe dare to care is going to become, it has to become some platform.
00:21:26.850 --> 00:21:32.850 Frank R. Harrison: The reason why I say that is again my my guest two weeks ago lead Tomlinson was on the brink of suicide.
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:40.140 Frank R. Harrison: Until a doctor friend of his told him the benefits of fighting for his life from a compassionate point of view.
00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:49.620 Frank R. Harrison: It can't be just I mean it's unfortunate that it is a one on one circumstance, depending on the patient and depending on it on the treatment provider, but.
00:21:50.340 --> 00:22:01.230 Frank R. Harrison: It has to be introduced as a standard like a final checklist, if you will, if you know that the patient is about to die, what can you pivot from just.
00:22:01.590 --> 00:22:10.080 Frank R. Harrison: Physical and and medicinal treatments to spiritual treatments or some kind of linkages to that deep inner.
00:22:10.710 --> 00:22:28.140 Frank R. Harrison: Patients needs so that they can feel the calm when they are transitioning everyone, as we know, is always afraid of death, I mean we all want to live, but death is a part of life and if it's already understood in the way that you experience, such as with that young patient.
00:22:29.370 --> 00:22:41.640 Frank R. Harrison: I think people would not i'm not saying look forward to it, but they would accept it when it's about to happen, because they would know there is good happening during and hopefully afterwards, you know.
00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:50.580 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So interesting, thank you for your saying, initially, you said with your with the tragic events and sad events with your father.
00:22:51.690 --> 00:22:56.340 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: and your role in his as a caregiver for him.
00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:06.240 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: um you mentioned that you are, you are a kind of a health care professional in that regard just looking at this relationship.
00:23:06.630 --> 00:23:07.020 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And I.
00:23:07.050 --> 00:23:20.220 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Full heartedly agree that both your father as a patient, as well as you as a son are actually healthcare professionals, you may not have had the exact training for the kind of condition that he was suffering from.
00:23:20.970 --> 00:23:32.460 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: or actually probably know aspects about his condition and primarily him as a human being.
00:23:33.660 --> 00:23:37.800 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: That the physicians were not necessarily aware of, and maybe never were.
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.450 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And so weak at heart, based medicine, we will.
00:23:44.310 --> 00:23:47.370 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: we're saying let's see the patient before the disease.
00:23:47.790 --> 00:23:50.910 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, thanks and that's and that's where the patient.
00:23:51.450 --> 00:23:55.950 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: is actually the physician that's where the patient knows most.
00:23:56.490 --> 00:24:09.600 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And that's where the sun knows most and that's why this is so, so important that the family is there when we're suffering and that the that the health care providers so called health care professionals, then.
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:20.130 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: are, if you like, a supporting coaching yes circle around the family that is actually going through the healing process yeah.
00:24:20.970 --> 00:24:27.150 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: This is something i'd love to see as a as a change, you know we see ourselves more like coaches, rather than.
00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:38.520 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: The ones where the carrier of the solution, because we went to Dr school and we have lots of experience and the patient is kind of the carrier of the problem, what if we just change that paradigm.
00:24:39.030 --> 00:24:40.890 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Right actually the patient knows very well.
00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:54.630 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: What they need, and what is really important, and dear to them and our role is to find out how can we best support what what the patient actually want rather than assuming what they want, based on a diagnosis that we have made and the patient hasn't made it.
00:24:55.230 --> 00:25:04.170 Frank R. Harrison: Correct correct I would have to say that coven has truly been an exposure to many levels of transparency throughout.
00:25:04.560 --> 00:25:15.540 Frank R. Harrison: Our lives our countries are our health care, especially, and not just the focus on making sure you don't get covert or making sure you get tested or making sure.
00:25:15.870 --> 00:25:26.670 Frank R. Harrison: You say six foot apart, or whatever, but those are like techniques, the real element is think inward and then project outward and most people, unfortunately.
00:25:27.090 --> 00:25:32.670 Frank R. Harrison: are not only not taught that in Medical School said, if you don't go to medical schools, you have a lot of situations.
00:25:33.120 --> 00:25:40.590 Frank R. Harrison: Where it's not even tied in families you end up learning by default, and I think we're coven was actually helpful, is it put everyone on default status.
00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:50.670 Frank R. Harrison: No, and so I think that in the case of my father, which I find very interesting is no, I have no history and researching cancer.
00:25:51.030 --> 00:26:05.880 Frank R. Harrison: or things like that, and most of my training is in in business and psychology and and social media i'm more of a business and technology person, but the thing is, is that, while I was studying psychology.
00:26:07.020 --> 00:26:13.830 Frank R. Harrison: A lot of it was in relation to the brain because of my history with epilepsy, and looking at depression and co-morbidities with.
00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:23.310 Frank R. Harrison: with epilepsy, and then my research by default for my thesis was at nyu land going health, which is a excellent teaching hospital here in New York.
00:26:23.790 --> 00:26:35.670 Frank R. Harrison: And at that same time by using their resources, I felt like all of a sudden, I was just becoming a health care professional or advocate, and then the unique element of my father is that.
00:26:36.210 --> 00:26:42.150 Frank R. Harrison: The the vaccines, when he started taking them and bringing this up, because I know that's one of your expertise is obviously.
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:53.070 Frank R. Harrison: That actually helped to resolve his tumors but, again, that being a scientist myself i'm not able to validate approve that but from what I see.
00:26:53.430 --> 00:27:04.410 Frank R. Harrison: He said, a point where it's in Resolution status with very little medical with very little medicine and that's because he had the support of me my mother by my sister.
00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:14.850 Frank R. Harrison: Some other friends of his, but we also would go to the doctor and show the compassion show the concerns of covert being a severe comorbidity.
00:27:15.450 --> 00:27:23.670 Frank R. Harrison: In the healing process, but it was making sure that what people need to learn and i'm sure the book dare to care references this.
00:27:24.060 --> 00:27:34.140 Frank R. Harrison: Is that when you are dealing with a family member or friend, that is going through a healthcare crisis what organically results is a team effort to treatment case.
00:27:34.560 --> 00:27:49.440 Frank R. Harrison: The patient is a case study you know not not to objectify or put distance from the patient, but if it's looked from a macro view, then people can probably dig deeper and inwards and learn to bring up the empathy when it's needed.
00:27:50.010 --> 00:28:04.410 Frank R. Harrison: It really becomes more of a self awareness process an awakening process like you say in and that's something no I don't think any educational institution can teach that it's like.
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:20.310 Frank R. Harrison: It you know it, or you don't and if you manage to become aware of it, once you know it like in the example of you taking care of that that infant then you've got yourself a corner there to really master and build an advocate for others.
00:28:21.780 --> 00:28:30.900 Frank R. Harrison: Well i'm sorry if i've kind of gone over and abort of we're about to head towards another break but, ladies and gentlemen, please buy this book dare to care.
00:28:31.830 --> 00:28:42.630 Frank R. Harrison: It covers about insight and awareness and love and compassion and understanding, of course, the typical illnesses and treatments available for the patient.
00:28:43.080 --> 00:28:54.450 Frank R. Harrison: But as Dr john had indicated with that young child, you have to reach inside your awareness your soul your heart and understand that when you are really helping.
00:28:55.140 --> 00:29:14.130 Frank R. Harrison: Patients and providing the love and empathy and compassion to them, it makes the whole journey, whether it's a transition of end of life, or even in healing much more worth it, I guess, is the right word right or much more of an opportunity in disguise, I gather.
00:29:15.090 --> 00:29:16.020 Frank R. Harrison: All right, we're about.
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:26.490 Frank R. Harrison: we're about to go into section three right here on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook live stay tuned for this episode of frank about health with Dr yan bonhoeffer.
00:32:00.360 --> 00:32:01.740 Frank R. Harrison: hey everybody welcome back.
00:32:01.770 --> 00:32:07.170 Frank R. Harrison: We are here with Dr young been hefford daring to care on this episode of frank about health.
00:32:07.770 --> 00:32:18.390 Frank R. Harrison: I think I went on a little bit of a diatribe about my views of the book, I just want to say, if you don't mind Dr yon about some of your topic lines for each chapter.
00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:35.370 Frank R. Harrison: I think this might also incite people to really go and get this book, because it really is about teaching yourself how to awake in yourself in times of crisis, for example, it says, listen to your patients, taking care of yourself is fundamental.
00:32:36.450 --> 00:32:49.770 Frank R. Harrison: Trust resonance question what is normal, of course, dare to care create loving relationships set the tone for the day learn from your mistakes choose your role models.
00:32:50.400 --> 00:33:04.020 Frank R. Harrison: and connect with the infinite I love that statement, you know so Overall, I think this is a something you mentioned about your you're going to develop a course or you probably thinking about doing that they're in Switzerland.
00:33:05.370 --> 00:33:17.040 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: yeah so, given the current times we're just right now actually developing an online course that should become should go live and probably end of February, so our end of January beginning of February.
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:31.140 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So this will be a course that is directed at healthcare professionals, that is nurses therapists physios ergo doctors like whoever is caring caregivers.
00:33:32.760 --> 00:33:49.830 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: of any kind, because it's it's challenging to actually stay authentic stay connected to our hearts not forget to have our head screwed on you know yo going harder and meditation doesn't heal meningitis right so.
00:33:51.570 --> 00:33:56.790 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: You know, like there's there's both parts of the spectrum that we have to keep balance but.
00:33:57.060 --> 00:34:02.790 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Right, we tend to kind of shift towards one balance and forget side of the equation and forget.
00:34:03.570 --> 00:34:18.540 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: about us, and this is what led me to to write the book is that this is written in in the form of letters to my goddaughter, who is a young resident, so I felt, what is it that I can pass on to her she's going to get all this knowledge from all these professors anyway.
00:34:19.860 --> 00:34:27.510 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So maybe there's something else I can pass on, and so I felt let's let's write about things that you don't learn at Medical School about actually.
00:34:28.740 --> 00:34:41.670 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: About a kind of resilience, that is not based on being tougher and harder, which is the kind of resilience that I was trained in when I was a resident, yes I kind of work for 90 620 hours non stop and.
00:34:42.030 --> 00:34:49.020 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: have your coffees all the time and run yourself, you know running fusions into yourself so you're kind of staying awake and be hydrated and.
00:34:49.410 --> 00:34:50.070 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: don't sleep.
00:34:50.160 --> 00:34:58.710 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And then even feel great about it can even come with this hero idea of oh I slept less than you did kind of competition.
00:34:59.790 --> 00:35:09.210 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: I totally ridiculous, can you imagine, would you would you go to would you if you want to learn to play the violin let's say Okay, would you go and.
00:35:10.080 --> 00:35:18.690 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: seek out a teacher that has learned everything about playing the violin but has never actually played the violin.
00:35:19.170 --> 00:35:24.810 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: No, you wouldn't right would you go to a fitness trainer who would would you hire a plumber, who has it, what do you hire a no.
00:35:25.140 --> 00:35:32.730 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: But you actually go and see a doctor who has learned about health but actually wasn't required it wasn't part of the training.
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:41.340 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: To take care of your own health and realize and recognize how difficult that is and what it actually takes to promote your own health.
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:52.830 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So what we've learned is to to fight disease and and just note the language we're fighting disease we're in a war against cancer wow, what are we doing here we're talking about nature.
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:58.110 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So what about actually promoting health, regardless of where you are.
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:15.960 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And so that starts at home it's it's, how can I promote health of somebody else if i'm just sleep deprived depressed frustrated on the brink of burnout and you mentioned it, the suicide rate among healthcare professionals is incredible and right now, during code is skyrocketing so.
00:36:17.040 --> 00:36:30.120 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: This is where I felt okay let's let's start fresh and see what are some really urgently missing elements in our training as physicians and also how can we really empower the patient.
00:36:30.570 --> 00:36:31.050 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And is.
00:36:31.200 --> 00:36:35.220 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: One of the key points is promoting health and another one, is that.
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:48.690 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: healing has to do with a sense of nothingness a state of enough notice here if i'm actually in a state of neediness or a sense of incompletion.
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:58.470 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Which is very, very frequent very common I certainly I plead guilty of this so i'm just describing things that i've noticed in myself, and then I started looking around saying oops i'm not alone.
00:36:58.860 --> 00:36:59.070 So.
00:37:00.330 --> 00:37:18.450 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: sense of i'm not good enough, you know I need to work harder, I need to work longer hours, I may have not given justice to the patient's needs, these are all feelings that that healthcare professionals all now and so when we're living in a constant state of neediness and and and in incompletion.
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:27.600 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Then, how can we actually invite somebody else who is suffering in a safe place how, how do we don't radiate.
00:37:28.170 --> 00:37:39.060 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Behind of safety, what we may radiate is like i'm the professor, and I know what's good for you, for 30 and safety, but it rings, a very different resonance then actually saying i'm here as a human being.
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:45.960 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And I am with you in this process of not feeling well and and let's work it out together, because only together, we can do this.
00:37:46.530 --> 00:37:46.980 Frank R. Harrison: mm hmm.
00:37:47.040 --> 00:38:02.430 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So this is where daring to care comes in, this is where it actually takes courage to care, and particularly in the current environment and the current, if you like, the way the system is built in the way that kind of the Culture among healers is.
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:12.450 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: It actually takes courage to to actually feel into your heart to listen to your intuition and.
00:38:13.710 --> 00:38:20.520 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: to let that be part of the equation, and to let that be part of the guidance, not the only one, but part of it.
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:29.730 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So that we actually fully human beings, we have a heart, and we have a brain, why are we only using our brains we're missing out here we're not showing up in the best version of ourselves.
00:38:30.390 --> 00:38:41.940 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: into my mind when I look at myself at moments of frustration and despair when I look at my colleagues who are really you know burnt out and and at the brink of not wanting to live this life any longer.
00:38:43.350 --> 00:38:52.650 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Very often, this has to do with a sense of isolation, a sense of feeling alone, a sense of not being good enough essence of.
00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:56.280 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Being separate.
00:38:57.570 --> 00:39:01.020 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And this is the opposite of love.
00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:02.520 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So when we.
00:39:02.700 --> 00:39:13.140 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Dare to be vulnerable when we dare to open up suddenly we're energized suddenly we feel connected suddenly we feel the other person suddenly there's meaning suddenly there's there's purpose suddenly there's.
00:39:15.690 --> 00:39:21.390 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: isn't it that would most healthcare professionals actually went into this profession for in the first place.
00:39:21.750 --> 00:39:27.120 Frank R. Harrison: Correct correct, I mean I call it expanding the boundaries of your individuality.
00:39:28.650 --> 00:39:42.870 Frank R. Harrison: You know if you understand yourself first then it's able to do that, but i've been fortunate like you said, if you don't feel enough self esteem or self worth or you don't feel complete you can't expand what you already are restricted from To begin with, so that becomes the challenge.
00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:51.300 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: yeah, and so we have to bring this to the ground, so the book is very much about like Okay, this is kind of what we just talked about, we can say like yeah This is all nice philosophy, but.
00:39:51.570 --> 00:40:03.090 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: If i'm now actually working on let's say a covert icu can have been the my my my other shift partner is actually sick right now so i'm actually working double shifts right now and then.
00:40:03.630 --> 00:40:10.320 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: I listened to the two of us talking I probably got like guys, you know sorry I don't have time for this right now i'm actually suffering so.
00:40:11.190 --> 00:40:19.980 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So what we could do it was so what the point of the book is is to say okay so here's here's it here's an awareness that there's a need.
00:40:20.910 --> 00:40:31.080 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Now, how can we bring this to the ground in the way that it actually works up at the front line that it actually works in daily business, so how can I actually be with the family.
00:40:31.770 --> 00:40:36.720 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And with work and not feel like i'm torn in two directions and I can't manage both.
00:40:37.530 --> 00:40:51.540 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Right So what are the possibilities, what are the concrete little things that take one minute five minutes, maybe 10 minutes to be completely out there, so I can actually fit it into the day rinus so many important little things like.
00:40:52.710 --> 00:41:04.200 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: We were joking at the beginning of covert every everybody was talking about pee pee right personal protective equipment, and so we said what What about a different let's give this a different spin so he said, what about.
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:06.390 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: pause.
00:41:07.410 --> 00:41:09.180 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: presence engage.
00:41:10.050 --> 00:41:10.950 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And our P, p.
00:41:11.910 --> 00:41:12.870 Frank R. Harrison: very nice.
00:41:13.950 --> 00:41:30.360 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So, for example, before I open the door of a room when I go from one patient to the other one option is to walk out of one room and immediately go to the next one open the next door boom into the next room another one is to actually take like literally to breath pause.
00:41:31.530 --> 00:41:33.060 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Before I go into the room.
00:41:34.530 --> 00:41:43.650 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Just to Center myself just to really clear the table just to really kind of give myself permission to show up fresh and new again.
00:41:44.160 --> 00:41:54.960 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Right very simple no magic no whoo whoo just very simple, but if we actually do it, it makes a huge difference, what about getting up in the morning and.
00:41:55.470 --> 00:42:00.540 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: start with hydration start with a simple thing like a warm glass of water.
00:42:01.410 --> 00:42:11.700 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: With maybe a little bit of lemon in there and then actually just sit still for a few minutes while i'm drinking this and and just giving myself energy.
00:42:12.150 --> 00:42:24.900 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Before I give energy to everybody else, all that day correct makes a huge difference it's kind of sets the tone for the day and it changes, so much so, the book is full of these tiny little things that.
00:42:27.150 --> 00:42:33.600 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: That are workable and that are workable for both patients, as well as physicians so yeah.
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:43.170 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And then we try and take it one step deeper, and then we take it one step deeper and see so apart from the things you can do.
00:42:44.310 --> 00:42:46.470 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Is there also a way that we can look at.
00:42:47.550 --> 00:42:49.230 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: What are ways to be.
00:42:50.940 --> 00:43:04.320 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: yeah So what about not doing something, what about not adding something as oh now i'm already exhausted, and now I have to do this lemon thing in the more in the morning and I have to do the breathing thing on top of things and I have to do more, doing, because now it's spiritual doing.
00:43:06.990 --> 00:43:17.610 Frank R. Harrison: Like living outside of yourself and those people, unfortunately, would always be limited in terms of being able to really provide their best self towards help helping to heal others, you know.
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:23.730 Frank R. Harrison: I mean you have me fully engaged if this is, for example, your first lecture in your course I will be there.
00:43:24.750 --> 00:43:25.170 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Great.
00:43:26.490 --> 00:43:32.610 Frank R. Harrison: But some a actually I think we're about to head for another break, but before we go I did want to ask you, you said something about.
00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:42.810 Frank R. Harrison: continuing education relative to this course you're developing Is this something that you anticipate people will become eligible to actually earn continuing education credits.
00:43:43.110 --> 00:43:43.950 Oh absolutely.
00:43:45.090 --> 00:43:56.040 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Absolutely, we want this to be we want this to be a CME accredited continuing medical education accredited course and because it's basically, why not, you know.
00:43:56.460 --> 00:44:07.200 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Like if we if we accredited courses for anatomy and surgery, and also i'm ology and you name it all the good things, and why should we not accredited courses that are actually about taking care of our own House.
00:44:07.470 --> 00:44:09.330 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: and making sure that we can provide.
00:44:09.660 --> 00:44:12.180 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: The kind of health in the best version of ourselves.
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:20.760 Frank R. Harrison: Right now, ladies and gentlemen, we will wrap up and we will talk more about the future of dare to care the book and the future course as well as some other.
00:44:21.120 --> 00:44:33.390 Frank R. Harrison: questions about the future that I actually would like to know, based on his experience with immunology That being said, stay tuned right here on talk radio dot nyc and Facebook live, and we will be frank about daring to care in just a few.
00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:37.440 Frank R. Harrison: hey everybody welcome back we're about to wrap up this episode of frank about health.
00:46:37.830 --> 00:46:49.470 Frank R. Harrison: It has been an interesting 45 minutes with Dr young I feel like it has been cathartic for me on many levels validating a lot of the work that i've been doing, both on this show, and in my own personal life but.
00:46:49.950 --> 00:46:53.370 Frank R. Harrison: There is the aspect of coven that continues to linger on.
00:46:54.120 --> 00:47:04.740 Frank R. Harrison: Not only in our society, but on most of the episodes where we talked about, for example, how coven has changed the paradigm for many people, health professionals patients families, the list goes on.
00:47:05.130 --> 00:47:23.700 Frank R. Harrison: But you are Dr young an immunologist and concern with vaccine safety, what is your take on the Pfizer and Madonna vaccines, the reason why pick those two is because they are the genome, the genomic vaccines, I, what is the proper term that they referred to them as.
00:47:25.290 --> 00:47:26.310 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Mr a vaccine.
00:47:26.490 --> 00:47:33.630 Frank R. Harrison: And that's right that's right and that now there's talk about starting next week or the week after they're going to require.
00:47:34.740 --> 00:47:48.300 Frank R. Harrison: The third booster for those people who have six months out since their second shot, as well as for those that are immunocompromised you know, but my father would fit that case being that he had to deal with with cancer recovery.
00:47:49.200 --> 00:47:58.230 Frank R. Harrison: Do you think it is something that people should dare to care about I mean because of the nature of it being genetic in compound.
00:47:58.770 --> 00:48:09.780 Frank R. Harrison: It kind of implies that it could become the new vaccine treatment modality for other illnesses like maybe even cancer or or HIV, AIDS or.
00:48:10.140 --> 00:48:19.560 Frank R. Harrison: Diabetes or anything that most people have relied upon the system to say once you have it that's it, I mean we now see opportunities for a curative correct.
00:48:21.330 --> 00:48:23.250 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: yeah well you're you're touching on many points.
00:48:26.190 --> 00:48:29.220 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So maybe start with the last bit.
00:48:29.910 --> 00:48:38.100 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Better yes, the Mr in a vaccine technology is a kind of technology that we know for 20 years and research there's nothing much new.
00:48:39.210 --> 00:48:46.320 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: That it's like it's a little bit like a sledge you can you can think about it like a sledge and then then there's somebody writing the sledge right.
00:48:47.070 --> 00:49:01.410 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: The sledge is always the same, the basic constructors and same and then you can click on to that sledge one little protein or one little piece that can be recognized by the immune system, and this time we call it spy protein and it's an important part of this coronavirus.
00:49:02.010 --> 00:49:13.650 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So, but other virus elements or other let's say particles of micro organisms have been already plugged into the same sledge are very similar legends.
00:49:14.550 --> 00:49:32.940 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: vaccine constructs and So yes, we will see more and, as you say, and because it actually this kind of technology emulates the natural infection in many ways it will, it will be used for other infections and it may well be used for other applications absolutely yes.
00:49:33.540 --> 00:49:40.230 Frank R. Harrison: So you, then you are believing that the third booster is something that we should all be serious about when it's finally issue correct.
00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:52.410 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Well that's a whole different question is so and I think there's a bit of a confusion out there, so let me make sure that I understand what exactly you mean there's one one indication for three doses, is that you're.
00:49:53.820 --> 00:50:05.460 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: That you are immunocompromised in some way and so it's actually a good idea to have, if you like, not one priming dose and then one booster dose but to kind of have to priming doses in one booster dose.
00:50:05.850 --> 00:50:13.800 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So that you have three doses together so that your immune system will actually respond in a way that is similar to those with with the competent immune system.
00:50:14.220 --> 00:50:24.000 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: that's one indication for three doses, and another indication for three doses that you're basically healthy person and you had both doses you your two shots.
00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:38.010 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And then, and then what we're seeing now is that there is waning immunity so for different people is different for different age groups is different, but somewhere between sort of six to 12 months for most probably nine to 12 months.
00:50:38.340 --> 00:50:56.010 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: It looks like immunity is waning and so here, the question is, as with other vaccines do we need a third dose to boost, so what is there a need to say Okay, we have two doses that are actually priming doses, and then there is a boosting those after six months, nine months 12 months.
00:50:56.490 --> 00:51:05.640 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And this is what's worked out in different countries in different ways, right now, but the the basic theories understood everywhere that probably a booster dose a third dose.
00:51:06.120 --> 00:51:15.270 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: As a booster is is a good idea for one to provide long term protection now all over that is said just related to delta because that's as far as we know.
00:51:16.230 --> 00:51:18.750 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: When we talk about London and moon others well.
00:51:19.950 --> 00:51:31.230 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: I don't know the future will tell so we're just about like as we speak, this is kind of being understood better and what that might mean for other writing variations of virus.
00:51:31.410 --> 00:51:39.750 Frank R. Harrison: Right we're going with the flow so In essence, the reason why we're thinking of talking about the third booster for delta is because we're seeing that it's a combination of those that were never immunized.
00:51:40.050 --> 00:51:44.640 Frank R. Harrison: With the vaccine that are carrying the delta mutation and then those people who have been.
00:51:45.030 --> 00:51:54.660 Frank R. Harrison: Given their two doses, who are now having breakthrough cases, so I can see that immediate response, but then like you said the other mutations that are totally vaccine resistant.
00:51:55.320 --> 00:52:10.920 Frank R. Harrison: I mean that that tells me that, regardless of how many doses we get this year alone, being vaccinated for coven is going to become an annual event, just like the way it is for the flu, I mean that that's that's pretty much as transparent as I believe.
00:52:10.950 --> 00:52:19.710 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: It looks like it, many people would say so I have working with infectious diseases and biologicals I have become a little bit hesitant predicting the future.
00:52:20.310 --> 00:52:21.480 Frank R. Harrison: Right right.
00:52:21.690 --> 00:52:27.090 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: So I think it's prudent to just say our current state of ignorance is.
00:52:27.720 --> 00:52:29.310 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: And then continue the sentence.
00:52:31.260 --> 00:52:39.900 Frank R. Harrison: Pretty true, I mean it's like from the perspective with your book and the course and guarantee care, something that taught in schools and.
00:52:40.290 --> 00:52:48.330 Frank R. Harrison: From the perspective of vaccines for a pandemic that no one ever ever expected in this lifetime to actually see compared to 100 years ago.
00:52:48.690 --> 00:53:00.930 Frank R. Harrison: We are all pretty much I guess flying blind is one way of putting it flying by the seat of our pants learning more about our inner strengths and how to use them to maximize the best results.
00:53:01.350 --> 00:53:13.290 Frank R. Harrison: This is where all of us, I mean healthcare professionals advocates patients all of us are really learning that it is imperative, as i've said in previous shows to own your healthcare.
00:53:13.710 --> 00:53:14.040 Frank R. Harrison: that's.
00:53:14.130 --> 00:53:26.940 Frank R. Harrison: It has to be and for healthcare providers to really learn empathy as a critical tool amongst the others that they've learned in MED school and so forth, and so on, but I gather, maybe my.
00:53:27.570 --> 00:53:37.710 Frank R. Harrison: My wish is that the Mr any vaccines could actually lead to cures for such what have been considered in the past fatal illness it's like AIDS and cancer and.
00:53:38.010 --> 00:53:45.420 Frank R. Harrison: and others but that's something that I think is probably a big undertaking for anybody to really consider until we really finally get.
00:53:45.750 --> 00:53:51.030 Frank R. Harrison: A hold off this coven virus in the next year or two or however long it takes hopefully sooner than later.
00:53:51.660 --> 00:53:58.440 Frank R. Harrison: All right, so, ladies and gentlemen, that was my own little take this this week, I know that there's going to be a lot of decisions in the media.
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:04.650 Frank R. Harrison: about whether or not people should be taking their third booster shots and whatever the vaccine efficacy is going to be.
00:54:05.010 --> 00:54:17.190 Frank R. Harrison: But going back to the future of dare to care and of the work that Dr yan is doing, I already know, Dr yon i'm going to put you in touch with people at nyu lingo and health.
00:54:17.520 --> 00:54:27.030 Frank R. Harrison: But that'll take a couple months but we'll be in touch and i'll be able to do my best efforts to see that this book becomes a required course material, if not yet, of course.
00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:33.660 Frank R. Harrison: i'm looking forward to learn more about the development of this course I would love to get CU credits.
00:54:34.350 --> 00:54:38.880 Frank R. Harrison: On something like this, considering this show has become a platform to communicate those issues.
00:54:39.660 --> 00:54:50.670 Frank R. Harrison: Recently here in New York in New York state our former governor Andrew Cuomo had offered through cornell university to get public advocacy credits.
00:54:51.030 --> 00:55:00.180 Frank R. Harrison: for free, it was state funded in order to be a helper in times of pandemic crises and I participated I got my certificate in July.
00:55:00.540 --> 00:55:12.060 Frank R. Harrison: And now i'm actually using it as a credential in my own research and things that i'm doing Besides this, show so it's something that I can tell you already have someone here that's going to participate in the course when it finally comes out.
00:55:12.540 --> 00:55:23.550 Frank R. Harrison: Is there a website or other media channels or other resources that you could tell the viewers and listeners out there, where they could reach you or where they can learn more about other things that you're working on.
00:55:24.660 --> 00:55:33.030 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: yeah sure, thank you, so the book is available on Amazon and it's also available like that there are free chapters for download if you want to take a sneak peek on.
00:55:33.390 --> 00:55:49.110 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: heart based medicine.org, as you say, at heart, based medicine.org one word and you will also see us on social media on linkedin and Facebook and Twitter and we were just i'm learning about social media I didn't know how to spell Facebook, three years ago, so.
00:55:51.060 --> 00:55:56.550 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Seven learning about this and and we're we're increasingly building these platforms to inform and to share.
00:55:57.030 --> 00:56:07.440 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: valuable information that that is kind of short snippets digestible and interviews podcasts and those are also also available to heart based medicine or heart based MED.
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:18.630 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: That different handles in the different social media we're also starting on clubhouse now, which is a really interesting platform to really get together and to co create this field further as well, I just feel like an in.
00:56:19.170 --> 00:56:31.860 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: An inspiration I don't have a solution to share here to say like Okay, this is, you know follow me here i'm just trying to i'm seeking the conversation and see how can we actually co create something among like hearted yes.
00:56:31.950 --> 00:56:36.870 Frank R. Harrison: yeah that's what that's again what Sam leibowitz would say we are all co creators in our.
00:56:37.170 --> 00:56:38.700 Frank R. Harrison: In our in our awakening.
00:56:38.730 --> 00:56:45.210 Frank R. Harrison: And, as well as in our health care, all right, ladies and gentlemen, we are about to end this episode of frank about health.
00:56:45.540 --> 00:56:54.570 Frank R. Harrison: Stay tuned to next week, when I will have what I will be frank about autism spectrum disorder with my returning guest Solange pillars ODA.
00:56:54.900 --> 00:57:04.710 Frank R. Harrison: In addition, stay tuned it's six o'clock for her own Johnny tsunami, who will be talking about that crazy we'd known as cannabis on planet paga lolo.
00:57:05.100 --> 00:57:12.570 Frank R. Harrison: Everyone who wants to reach me or Dr yan with any questions can email me at frank about health one or two at gmail COM.
00:57:13.140 --> 00:57:24.030 Frank R. Harrison: Thanks for listening on Facebook live and talk radio dot nyc and we will be back next week and stay tuned for Johnny thanks for being here, Dr john I will be in touch with you tomorrow.
00:57:24.780 --> 00:57:28.740 Dr Jan Bonhoeffer: Thank you so much, thank you, frank amazing show really beautiful, thank you for your work.
00:57:29.160 --> 00:57:30.990 Frank R. Harrison: Oh you're very welcome, and thank you for being on the show.