The noted author and advocate for racial justice, James Baldwin, said that "We are trapped in our history, and our history is trapped in us."
Many of us carry around narratives that are based on our collective racial consciousness and our individual experiences. We make meaning of who we are and who we believe others to be based on these experiences. It is often difficult to shift these narratives, particularly when our experiences are steeped in pain, fear, distrust, and more.
Join Rev. Dr. TLC and her guest Kim Fuller on the next episode of Dismantle Racism. They will explore the ways in which we remain stuck in our racial narratives and how these narratives, often, do not serve our best interest. Kim's passion and experience as a photographer, story-teller, and adoptive mother fuel her desire to bridge the racial divide by transforming our personal narratives which leads to self-awareness, personal healing, and reaching across racial lines.
The show opens with Rev. Dr. Terrlyn introducing the show and today's guest. Kim Fuller, photography, story teller, and adoptive mother. All of those attributes fuel her desire to bridge the racial divide by transforming our personal narratives which leads to self-awareness, personal healing, and reaching across racial lines. Kim goes into a detailed backstory of how she got into the work she does. After a quick meditative prayer the show begins with a discussion about what might shape the narratives we hold against people. Rev. Dr. Terrlyn says once we become more racially aware we can begin to reshape these narratives and look with a different perspective.
The seconds segment starts with the show coming back up from break. Rev. Dr. Terrlyn then switches the conversation to how being a practicing budhist has informed Kim's work to dismantle racism. Kim says that a new gained perspective on herself allowed her to gain perspective on others. This led to the belief that we are all connected on a humanistic level. Kim and Rev. Dr. Terrlyn discusses the idea of being “color blind”. They say that this isn't exactly true. It's a good thing to see color, this allows us to be mindful of the beautiful differences between us as people. These differences inform us on how to treat others with respect and trust.
The third segment opens with Rev. Dr. Terrlyn picked the conversation up where she left off right before break. They discuss the trust between them as friends and how that's allowed them to have the uncomfortable conversations we should all probably be having. Kim then discusses what she learned and became aware of when raising an adopted black son.
The final segment opens with a discussion about transforming racial narratives. Rev. Dr. Terrlyn and Kim talk about their program they run together in an effort to dismantle racism. They then go into some guilt that some might carry around regarding narratives they may have had in the past and how they are working on moving past these biases.
00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:53.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Good morning, everyone sorry about that welcome to the dismantle racism show with the Reverend Dr tlc where our goal is to uncover dismantle and eradicate.
00:00:53.760 --> 00:01:07.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Racism and create a world where racial equity is the norm, as you know, I am your host Reverend Dr tlc and today we are going to be talking about trance racial narratives with my guest.
00:01:08.250 --> 00:01:21.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Kim for but before we get started, I want us to do what we usually do and that's take a breath, today we are going to take a breath and we're going to breathe in revelation.
00:01:22.230 --> 00:01:35.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: revelation is something that comes to us when we take a moment to stop reflect listen and to refrain from being reactive, so I invite you to just take a breath.
00:01:36.360 --> 00:01:39.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connect with your sacred source, whatever that is.
00:01:41.670 --> 00:01:51.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So that revelation can come to you in such a powerful way that you will surrender to your greatest highest good.
00:01:52.950 --> 00:01:56.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Just breathe in revelation.
00:01:57.570 --> 00:02:00.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And exhale your light and your love.
00:02:01.860 --> 00:02:04.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to your community and into the world.
00:02:06.600 --> 00:02:08.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So breathe in revelation.
00:02:10.260 --> 00:02:12.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And allow yourself in this time together.
00:02:14.250 --> 00:02:17.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to awaken to new insights into who you are.
00:02:18.570 --> 00:02:21.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And how you impact those around you.
00:02:22.590 --> 00:02:32.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe a newfound revelation that will help you to see others who perhaps are different from you, and you can see them more clearly.
00:02:34.440 --> 00:02:37.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Re then revelation that offers peace.
00:02:39.330 --> 00:02:42.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: lightman reconciliation.
00:02:43.650 --> 00:02:49.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: away whatever is meaningful in this moment to dismantle racism.
00:02:52.650 --> 00:02:54.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: doesn't it feel great to just breathe.
00:02:55.530 --> 00:02:57.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And to just be in the moment.
00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:00.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So again, welcome to the show.
00:03:01.770 --> 00:03:12.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to talk today about the narratives that we carry because within each of us we carry the stories of our ancestors we carry our stories of the past.
00:03:12.930 --> 00:03:22.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: which, of course, are shaped by our personal experiences and they're shaped by the narratives that we tell ourselves and sometimes they're shaped by.
00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:34.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The narratives that others are have given to us, so we carry these stories in our bodies from old sometimes the narratives are shaped by things that we see visually.
00:03:35.850 --> 00:03:45.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Sometimes they're shaped by encounters we have with other people conversations that we have with other people, and sometimes those narratives.
00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:57.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Do not leave space for change revelation reconciliation or healing, particularly the narratives around race.
00:03:58.260 --> 00:04:12.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so we can, though we've become more racially conscious began to change the ways in which we see things the stories that we tell ourselves, and we can evaluate.
00:04:13.110 --> 00:04:26.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Whether our narratives service or not so today's guest Kim fuller knows a little bit about how important narratives are and the stories that we tell ourselves so I want to welcome today.
00:04:27.330 --> 00:04:42.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: My colleague, my friend Kim fuller, who is the creator of a movement called born to rise and born to rise his purpose of that is to empower women to stand in.
00:04:42.450 --> 00:04:48.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Their stories and their self image with confidence so that they can connect more deeply.
00:04:48.810 --> 00:04:59.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: create a life of peace and possibility and to make positive change while inspiring other folks to do the same thing Kim is.
00:04:59.520 --> 00:05:09.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: An extraordinary photographer she's been a photographer for over 30 years I know it doesn't appear, but those of you who can see her on camera.
00:05:09.810 --> 00:05:22.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That she's been in this business for 30 years but she has and cam really is able to look through the lens to allow women stories and and other people that she photographs as well.
00:05:23.220 --> 00:05:30.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But to allow that story to come out and she's a mindfulness photographer and that comes from her.
00:05:31.380 --> 00:05:39.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And i'll actually allow her to tell that story, but it it comes from an encounter that she had that informs for.
00:05:40.200 --> 00:05:51.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Secret practice and so we'll talk about that in a few minutes but Kim is the author and her book is entitled finding she's a tedx speaker a teacher.
00:05:51.330 --> 00:06:08.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: A mindfulness coach and she developed a method called pause to help people more mindfully navigate relationships in their lives, I am delighted to welcome my guest today Kim a fuller good morning good morning good morning can.
00:06:08.280 --> 00:06:14.010 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: i'm so excited to be here terrell and I am, and can you be my publicist please that was awesome.
00:06:16.950 --> 00:06:36.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: anytime anytime can tell us a little bit about your I know that I know your sacred practice and I love to hear a little bit about how your practice forms your work so tell us about this encounter that you had that brought you.
00:06:37.620 --> 00:06:42.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Really expanded your view of mindfulness and how you engage in that work.
00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:47.100 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Well, and also my story it's funny i'm thinking of this now and connecting this but.
00:06:47.670 --> 00:06:57.840 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I was on a photo assignment and I was in kind of a funky place, I was having this challenging relationship with someone is we're working on something together, and in my mind, as I was being.
00:06:58.260 --> 00:07:10.290 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: told to sit down during this photo shoot versus stand up and move around and be able to photograph the Dalai Lama, when he was going to be giving a presentation at a local university.
00:07:11.370 --> 00:07:19.230 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: my mind went right into my story of i'm not going to be able to get any good photos i'm Why am I not the one who gets to move around.
00:07:20.310 --> 00:07:37.800 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I really wanted to meet the Dalai Lama in person, you name it and I did get to meet him very briefly, as he came into the tent and I was in my little station seat that they'd given me and I was able to shake his hand and in that moment, there was such a connection that.
00:07:39.270 --> 00:07:47.550 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: felt like pure pure love like he saw right through me into my heart Center or something I even burst into tears.
00:07:47.910 --> 00:07:56.310 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And I remember reflecting on that thinking if I hadn't been told to sit in that seat, I would not have had that magical moment and so.
00:07:56.790 --> 00:08:04.740 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I let you know notice that story i'd been telling myself so that practice that moment really got me wondering about.
00:08:05.520 --> 00:08:11.910 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: His practice how did he do this because I was not really raised super religious and I didn't have a spiritual practice at that time.
00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:27.240 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: But it really got me to dive into Buddhism and begin to understand how he was able to see me in that way in such a loving hold holding kind of space in just a flash and it was doing it with so many people in the 10.
00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:38.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But you know what was really amazing about your story and within as we will unfold, a little bit later, sometimes we can stay so in our stories that we actually.
00:08:38.460 --> 00:08:40.770 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: missed that moment of Revelation right.
00:08:40.860 --> 00:08:58.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And you actually paused and your story and just decided Okay, let me, let me figure out what this experience could be on in this moment, because I think in our stories what we do is the ego gets more involved.
00:08:58.560 --> 00:08:59.100 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Oh, you guys.
00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:00.990 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I was all in ego.
00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:12.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You were you were all in it, but then it was there was this moment of like Okay, and there was this moment of seeing him and the other people.
00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:17.580 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Right and then part of part of my practice as a photographer is.
00:09:17.910 --> 00:09:29.670 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: really being present when i'm on a shoot like that, especially if it's an event because i'm constantly sort of looking for those moments to capture, so I had been watching him right and watching the crowd and thinking.
00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:35.790 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: wow something is really happening that's special here, and so, by the time you got to me.
00:09:36.150 --> 00:09:43.410 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I literally had put the camera down, and here it was all sort of in my ego about not being able to get any photos of him that were anything that podium and him.
00:09:43.920 --> 00:09:52.110 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And he was right in front of me, but I put the camera down, and so it was it was meant to happen, and one of the one of the biggest lessons in in.
00:09:52.920 --> 00:10:11.490 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: The Buddhist teachings I think has really been important for me is sort of understanding impermanence and non attachment, and in that moment, I think there was a moment of non attachment to any kind of outcome like screw the photos this there's something happening here.
00:10:12.300 --> 00:10:13.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I think that's the beauty.
00:10:14.040 --> 00:10:14.520 Of.
00:10:15.810 --> 00:10:33.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Just whether it's our interactions with boats or yes of course we have to plan for things and there's a job, so to speak, that we have to do, but at the same time, if we let go of some of the expectations, because i'm sure before you went to that photo shoot you had in your mind.
00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:44.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Oh, my goodness, reading the Dalai Lama and this this this, but when you allow space for the story to unfold differently, and I can I really.
00:10:45.180 --> 00:10:49.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know, keep saying the story and the narrative, not just because you.
00:10:50.070 --> 00:11:01.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Talk about that in your work, the two of us actually talk about the stories that folks tell themselves, whether it be around dismantling racism or racism in general which we're going to talk about in a minute.
00:11:01.800 --> 00:11:12.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But it is so powerful, to be able to say what is the new narrative that can unfold, you know it so.
00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.950 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And that's permanence right that's the impermanence because our narrative is basically all those.
00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:23.190 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: thoughts that come from our experiences our ego and what have you and ego meaning sort of us.
00:11:23.220 --> 00:11:26.640 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: The self right we identify as who we are.
00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:31.920 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And that narrative can shift, because the thoughts are simply coming and going.
00:11:32.310 --> 00:11:45.150 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And when we start to pay attention to those that's when we can notice and see wait a minute there's another possibility here to focus on this or shift that thinking a little to be more supportive for myself or the other.
00:11:45.540 --> 00:11:59.190 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: um yeah so taking that into my life has been huge not only working with my photography clients, but with the story that I wrote about in my book of adopting my son and how that all impacted me him and my family.
00:12:00.300 --> 00:12:05.010 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And so my Buddhist practice was super helpful in all of that, because.
00:12:06.060 --> 00:12:14.820 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: The story I had made up was that oh adopting this little boy everything was going to be peachy we were going to make his life so special it was all going to be dancing.
00:12:15.420 --> 00:12:20.970 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: He would be happy, all the things that you hope for and that you think you're capable of.
00:12:21.570 --> 00:12:31.620 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: When, in fact, in really letting go is when he really was able to settle into the family in a good way because before that there was a lot of head butting and.
00:12:32.070 --> 00:12:42.780 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Wanting things to be different than they were and he was struggling and I was trying to fix it and change it and make it different when in fact he needed something very different he needed me.
00:12:42.780 --> 00:12:43.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: know what.
00:12:43.620 --> 00:12:44.070 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Lama.
00:12:44.490 --> 00:12:53.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know here's what's really interesting about this pin because we're talking about that, for your adopt to son, but the truth is as parents.
00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:59.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: often have to let go of what we think our children should be create a narrative when they're born.
00:12:59.820 --> 00:13:00.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And what.
00:13:00.660 --> 00:13:05.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Their life is going to be, and you know they have their own mind go figure right.
00:13:07.170 --> 00:13:15.720 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I just didn't see it clearly until then and that's the point, I think, is that we have these pivotal moments in our life that shift that narrative right.
00:13:15.930 --> 00:13:22.860 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: So there you know, I was a pretty laid back mom as far as like letting my kids be their kids I was fortunate to have parents like that.
00:13:23.430 --> 00:13:33.750 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: But I didn't, of course, have expectations right that they would be I don't know straight or go to a certain college or act a certain way, or whatever, but.
00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:51.750 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: um I think it was my son cadel that really challenged it in a different way and I think people who are challenging in your life, so to speak, become your greatest teachers, if you can stay present to that narrative to the what we make up about them.
00:13:52.020 --> 00:14:00.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I just want to point out right before we go to break because we're gonna have to take a break in a minute is that that one encounter that you had.
00:14:00.660 --> 00:14:14.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Where you had a narrative in your head that turned out to be different, yes, actually informed your life long term, and so I think that that's one of the messages that we want to be clear to share with people is that.
00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:22.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If we can break free of those narratives it might just change our situations in a way that will really be.
00:14:23.190 --> 00:14:35.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: transformational not just to us but to other people as well, so we're going to talk a little bit more about our narratives when we come back with my guest Kim full or so stay tuned after this commercial break.
00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:19.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Welcome back to dismantle racism, with the Reverend Dr tlc today's guest is Kim fuller Kim before the break, we were discussing our narratives and how being a Buddhist has informed not only your.
00:17:20.820 --> 00:17:26.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: work as a photographer but the ways in which you really navigate life.
00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:39.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In the ways that you allow yourself to experience a different narrative and so talk to me a little bit about how being a practicing Buddhist has really.
00:17:40.620 --> 00:17:44.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: shaped your view or informed your work on dismantling racism.
00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:55.080 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: yeah gosh and so so many ways, but um I think one of the key things is that i've really practice looking at myself.
00:17:55.710 --> 00:18:05.100 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: and an understanding myself, it gives me a better understanding of others, and this idea that we are all interconnected it's a huge theme in.
00:18:05.580 --> 00:18:17.670 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: In awakening to reality, if you will, is that we are all interconnected, and so, when I understand that I understand the impact that others have on me and the impact that I have on others.
00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:26.820 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I was very fortunate to be exposed to a lot of different kinds of people growing up as a military child or child of a military father and.
00:18:27.750 --> 00:18:36.570 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I think that experience really awakened me to the fact that, even though we all might look a little different skin color, so to speak.
00:18:36.930 --> 00:18:54.210 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: or or hair color any of that and the different cultures and backgrounds, we come from, we all have the same desire to find acceptance love peace, you know the basic kind of things that make us humans, and I think that.
00:18:55.500 --> 00:19:07.320 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: My practice has also just reminded me of that over and over and over again, because I know I want it for myself why wouldn't other humans want it for themselves, and so, as I navigate the world my family my friends.
00:19:08.430 --> 00:19:18.750 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I I try to remember that in my engagements with them and to be present each moment and not to bring in my story.
00:19:19.110 --> 00:19:25.440 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: of previous interactions with them what I make up about them what I believe to be true or not true about what's happening.
00:19:25.770 --> 00:19:34.800 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Because again I bring in the impermanence I have no idea what they've been doing for the last you know, a few days months years that I haven't seen them, they could have been influenced.
00:19:34.830 --> 00:19:36.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: My have to tell you that is so powerful.
00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:38.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's that's a powerful.
00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:51.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Just tools, I have to say I don't bring in really those past conversations experiences, etc, is that it's not that they don't completely.
00:19:53.130 --> 00:19:58.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ignore other daughter, but it's just that you're not allowing them to guide your present.
00:19:59.190 --> 00:20:00.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: interaction and I feel.
00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:09.960 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: That if we bring that into much we're not making like you said in the beginning we're not making space for possibility, because each moment is a new opportunity.
00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:16.800 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: To begin again, I think, and so, even if there was a lot of icky before like can we start over can we.
00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:24.780 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Try a new approach and that's part of the pause method right to slow down and become aware shift, these are all that as an acronym.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:35.640 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: You know the S is the shift perspective try something new explore that's the E and pause explore a new action step, maybe I say something differently listen instead of talk.
00:20:36.630 --> 00:20:45.750 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: You know so grounding in the practice of being present has been huge and then understanding that interconnectedness is really another huge piece of it for me.
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:59.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, so I love what you're saying Kim and what you're talking about it applies to so many situations that we're dealing with, and not just when we're talking about dismantling racism, but I want to specifically ask you.
00:21:00.570 --> 00:21:12.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because we've been friends now for several years, and I think that that the two of us have seen each other grow we've had some really deep conversations around racism.
00:21:12.510 --> 00:21:19.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And while the practices that you're talking about are relevant for numerous situations.
00:21:20.100 --> 00:21:39.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: i'd love to know, though what's been some of your own personal transformation in the in the work of dismantling racism, because I believe that we have to specifically focus on the things that we want to change, and so I want to be careful that.
00:21:40.830 --> 00:21:46.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That the tools or the things that we talked about that we also don't say to folks.
00:21:48.390 --> 00:22:05.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That we don't that we don't have to focus in on a person's effort, ethnicity, their race or other identifying factors, and I say that because I always hear folks say will apply to be colorblind.
00:22:07.080 --> 00:22:19.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Eco conscious so talk about your personal transformation in this area to to the awakening of I have to see that person at at as a racial.
00:22:19.470 --> 00:22:30.030 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Right so so some differentiation is here, so in being present for someone means that i'm present in each moment and there's only this moment.
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:46.980 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: That does not mean I disregard what I see in front of me so i'm going to make assumptions and judgments it's I can't help it I see you as a black woman right so that's going to register, it does for me, I see color I do mm hmm.
00:22:47.130 --> 00:22:51.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I may also add you do because i'm glad you're able to acknowledge it because I think.
00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When people say they don't see color they're actually not being.
00:22:55.170 --> 00:22:55.530 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: they're not.
00:22:56.370 --> 00:22:58.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they're not help, but to see that i'm a black woman.
00:22:59.250 --> 00:23:06.750 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: and also to in that moment recognize there may be some things I need to be aware of in this conversation or mindful of if you will.
00:23:07.290 --> 00:23:15.840 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And I don't want to assume you are the same as all black women or that you are the same as you were yesterday because we are good friends and we talk often.
00:23:16.080 --> 00:23:30.750 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: what's been your day right so that's the difference right so there's they're seeing and then there's being mindful of what you're seeing and watching where you make assumptions and judgments and so around this racial piece it's been huge because.
00:23:32.550 --> 00:23:40.320 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: What we see in the news is is constantly to me badgering or making black people look horrible.
00:23:41.100 --> 00:23:56.100 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And I know that's not true because i've met many black people who are amazingly beautiful So how can this be so thrown in our face and us not be affected by that by paying attention that's how.
00:23:56.340 --> 00:24:09.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so, and Kim So can I just pause just because I know with the conversation that we're having is you know you talked about how the media portrays black people.
00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:22.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah The other thing that I know in the conversation, is that there have been moments where you've had this feeling of hopelessness like what can we do is the world going to get better, so how.
00:24:22.470 --> 00:24:32.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Have you engaged in a process or the work of understanding that we, we must continue with this work and not go into this place of focusing.
00:24:32.610 --> 00:24:39.000 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: On here's where story comes in and and the work for you and i've been doing together around transforming our racial narratives.
00:24:40.710 --> 00:24:56.610 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: i've had to look at my narrative what do I believe what are my biases like I could walk around as a white girl white woman and go oh i'm so woke I got it I understand black people because i've been around a lot of black people Well, no, I don't.
00:24:57.180 --> 00:25:02.550 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And I can't even begin to and that's what i've realized working with you is that there's so many things.
00:25:03.090 --> 00:25:12.150 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: That I don't have to think about that you have to think about, for example, that some fears that you may have that I don't have to worry about as a white woman.
00:25:12.540 --> 00:25:22.890 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And those are the kinds of things that I didn't even know that I didn't know right, and so the way I have learned them is by having those deep conversations with you and being.
00:25:24.270 --> 00:25:35.280 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: willing, if you will, to to show up where i'm still a little messy and where I still have work to do and here's where my ego wants to drop in and go.
00:25:35.820 --> 00:25:47.700 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Oh no i'm good like I can just hide that sweep that under the rug and live my little pretty life, and it will continue if I don't do it, and for me i'm passionate enough about.
00:25:49.470 --> 00:25:54.300 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Not only being a good person, but being a good white person because.
00:25:56.430 --> 00:25:57.540 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: The history.
00:25:58.590 --> 00:26:02.820 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Is not great around white people and how they have treated by people.
00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:06.930 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: it's still going on, I don't want to be that person.
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:13.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, I think, I wonder, I just want pause for just a second I keep saying pause I think it's because you have your method of.
00:26:15.570 --> 00:26:26.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: time I say it, but but here's what's interesting I that you said, I want to be a good person and a good white person and you make a distinction between those things because.
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:42.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I also often hear people to say i'm not a racist i'm a good person and so racism isn't about whether a person is a good person or not right, we can go out and feed the homeless, but still not be concerned about the.
00:26:43.590 --> 00:26:53.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Health disparities, for instance with black and brown people or be concerned about mass incarceration you're still a good person it's it's about.
00:26:54.270 --> 00:27:02.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Basically, what you are saying what can we do to change the narratives in this country that white is supreme basically.
00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:07.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah so that you're saying i'm going to take a look at myself and see what I can do.
00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:23.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: In my own corner of the world, and I think that's what's powerful about you saying wait a minute I don't have to believe the narrative that the world has given me I need to show up as the person that I am and that's what's critical.
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:39.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: To not forget that I were one act can change thousands and thousands and thousands of people and we just have to be committed to that and Kim one of the things that I know that you do as well, is that.
00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:51.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You stay with the uncomfortable because there are times that you and I have some conversations that are pretty heavy conversations and and you talk about.
00:27:51.930 --> 00:28:13.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How long after we've stopped the conversation it's playing in your head and then you come back for more great posture of that is because we have a relationship as well, and so I think that there's the space of being able to say that we trust one another to engage in the deeper conversation.
00:28:13.800 --> 00:28:14.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I think you're going.
00:28:15.030 --> 00:28:24.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Can we're going to have to take a quick break and so hold on to your thought, and we will be right back with dismantle racism with Reverend Dr tlc and my guest Kim fuller.
00:31:12.390 --> 00:31:18.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Welcome back to dismantle racism dismantle racism i'm your host Reverend Dr tlc.
00:31:18.540 --> 00:31:29.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And i'm back with my guest Kim fuller Campbell for the break, we were talking about some of the really uncomfortable conversations that you and I have, but you keep coming back for more you stay.
00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:35.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: engaged with the work and you wanted to just say some a little bit more about that before we end it.
00:31:36.210 --> 00:31:41.460 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: yeah I was just gonna say that the the uncomfortable feeling often means that there's.
00:31:41.790 --> 00:31:54.180 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Something shifting in May and i've learned that and so, even when it is a little uncomfortable and wiggly it's almost as if i'm feeling my body reprogramming itself in some way, and so it does feel uncomfortable but.
00:31:54.660 --> 00:32:07.410 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: You know one thing that I know to be true is that part of what allows you and me to keep coming back is that we have developed this dialogue with one another in this trust, and I think that.
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:16.050 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Even before that we would share stories with one another, we share stories about our children about our lives as women, and you know just in general, and then we got into the racial stories.
00:32:16.530 --> 00:32:24.900 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And I think that's where, for me, sharing stories really connect someone enough to say I see you and I trust you because.
00:32:25.350 --> 00:32:37.590 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: You know you're showing up for me, and that gives me permission to show up for you and so that's what I love so much about stories and that that gives me the room to say I can do this, I can do this.
00:32:37.980 --> 00:32:50.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: No, thank you for that so can we talk a bit because you mentioned your adopted son cadel and i've asked you a bit about your own personal work that you're doing in this area.
00:32:52.050 --> 00:32:58.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You said that you had this image, so I could just adopt my son and all would be well.
00:33:00.150 --> 00:33:05.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, that wasn't the case right there were there were things that you had to deal with.
00:33:07.290 --> 00:33:16.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: cadel is a a black man at this point because he's he's older talk to me a little bit about.
00:33:18.030 --> 00:33:37.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What you notice now, you may not have even noticed it early on, but what you're noticing now, the more and more you wake up to the differences, what are some of the your own adjustments and realizations that you had to make raising a son who's of another race.
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:47.580 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: yeah there's so much here because kyle is such a special young man he really is so smart and and I think that.
00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:59.580 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Because I was studying Buddhism and mindfulness when he was so young, and my other kids were a little older when I get into it he's had a lot of the influences of how to self reflect so he's really good at that as well.
00:34:01.710 --> 00:34:06.510 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: When I have had the sort of the conversations around, for example.
00:34:07.590 --> 00:34:17.670 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: you're a black man and, unlike my son Henry, who is a white almost area looking young men blonde tall very light skin.
00:34:19.200 --> 00:34:24.600 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Is that I have to talk to cadel about things that are in the media, like.
00:34:25.350 --> 00:34:31.890 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: If you get pulled over you need to think about this, if you are walking at night, you need to think about this.
00:34:32.310 --> 00:34:50.160 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Those are the kinds of conversations I didn't necessarily have with my white son not not for the same reasons let's say for Henry it might have been about be polite respect the idea for kyle it was like a survival, you know you could be harmed in that moment, and so.
00:34:51.180 --> 00:34:57.630 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: That was tough and what I noticed also is that he didn't like talking about that because.
00:34:58.200 --> 00:35:07.620 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: As an adopted child and some of his early you know traumas and things he's already had to deal with he now had this racial piece, on top of it that just.
00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:13.800 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I think, in my mind felt very overwhelming, and I think it was a moment where he realized like.
00:35:14.700 --> 00:35:24.060 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I gotta deal with that too, which I know you have mentioned, you deal with every day, not something I have to deal with, so he had this layer of his own.
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:30.570 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Early beginnings on early traumas and life changes and all that and then all of a sudden now he's asked to think about that.
00:35:31.560 --> 00:35:46.050 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And I think it was like there was a resistance and a frustration and like i'm, not that I that won't happen to me, and so I just had to say, look I know this is hard and i've had to trust that i've got to keep talking about it.
00:35:46.080 --> 00:36:04.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Even though, so what was, but for you, Kim and and it's interesting because you and I are going to actually do a whole workshop on this coming up in a couple of days transformational parenting but What was it for you as a mom and as a white mom in particular.
00:36:05.580 --> 00:36:20.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That said, wait a minute I have to have a different conversation because i've met many white people who i'm going to say who are under the illusion and the illusion, you know, at some point that.
00:36:21.210 --> 00:36:27.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: kids their kids and I don't need to have this conversation I have actually had kids in my classroom.
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:36.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Who were of people of color who had white parents who never had conversations with their parents about some of the racial experiences they had yeah.
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:45.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They just didn't think their opinions, forget it, they get these parents are feeling like no I just need to treat all my kids the same so What was it for you, that said.
00:36:47.100 --> 00:36:51.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Wake up Kim guy that was different I need to have a different conversation with them.
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:59.670 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Again, I think I go back to my early experiences of being around so many people, and my prep my Buddhist practice around the fact that.
00:37:01.680 --> 00:37:11.880 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: You know, be awake wake up because and let go of the ego of i'm going to raise him the way I want to raise him or the you know, protect him because.
00:37:12.630 --> 00:37:23.910 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: You know it's protected and it's not and so mindfulness is about being aware of what's what's happening in the world, I mean this is real, this is this is.
00:37:24.210 --> 00:37:35.820 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: stuff you got to talk about you can't just sweep things under the rug and I know it's challenging I know it's hard to have these kinds of conversations I don't want to upset him and it's still important but.
00:37:38.010 --> 00:37:44.250 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I was gonna I had another thought, but we'll we'll keep talking, but I think I think some of the things as a parent are just that.
00:37:44.610 --> 00:37:55.110 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: We always want to protect our children right and sometimes we think we're doing the right thing, but protecting for me is about informing him and having those tough conversations.
00:37:56.190 --> 00:38:06.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And it's also what's interesting is as you're talking about this, I remember once I was doing a training, because I do trainings on dismantling racism and.
00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:17.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I talked about this is when my kids were really little and I talked about the ways in which I tell my kids when you go into a store please don't touch things, please don't pick up things because.
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:19.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know folks might be watching they may think that.
00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:30.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you're stealing blah blah, and I remember this one way woman saying to me, yes, but aren't you perpetuating racism, when you do that, and I said to her.
00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:44.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am protecting my children is what i'm doing it's unfortunate because in some ways, there might be this perpetuation of racism and that I am saying to my children, maybe in an unconscious way.
00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:51.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That you're less than the see I always tell the counter story to that as well, so I don't just leave it at.
00:38:52.200 --> 00:38:59.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: don't touch because, with my kids become aware of the history of where this is coming from, and then.
00:38:59.670 --> 00:39:12.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: able to tell them that you can still do and be what you choose to be that doesn't mean you're aren't going to have some battles, you see, because there is a different story that happens with my children.
00:39:13.080 --> 00:39:26.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so it's important, I believe that, even in the narratives because we can we can tell ourselves narratives that will keep us down, but we can tell ourselves narratives that will also empower us.
00:39:26.940 --> 00:39:29.970 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Saying like prepare for the worst hope for the best.
00:39:30.150 --> 00:39:33.480 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: So if you if you know what the worst possibility is.
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:50.760 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: But you prepare yourself to think, I hope that never happens right like I hope you never have to have a bad interaction with the police officer or a white person or anyone, for that matter, but in this conversation that and yeah you gotta you gotta be informed right and.
00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:55.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: let's hope, I think I think what's really.
00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:08.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: critical and having the conversation is that maybe it will never happen, but if you prepare them they won't be so shook, as they say, when it does, I can remember also when I was.
00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:21.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When I was in graduate school and I was working with undergraduate students, I remember a student coming into the counseling office, and she was the vibrational student Asian.
00:40:22.350 --> 00:40:41.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Eight of Asian descent and white, and she was so shook when someone called her a racial slur because she just had not been prepared for any such thing to happen she'd grown up around mostly white people all her life, and she had navigated pretty well.
00:40:42.840 --> 00:41:05.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: A white system and society and so she just didn't see herself in that way, and probably understood those racial slurs were for other people of Asian descent, and not her, and so we don't do our kids any justice or service and our blindness by your.
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:09.630 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: example here's an example of a story that kidal told himself.
00:41:10.770 --> 00:41:17.670 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: If I behave properly and I, you know i'm i'm a good person, and I speak kindly when I get pulled over.
00:41:18.210 --> 00:41:29.580 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: You know cuz he would say he would think that if people acted properly that wouldn't happen to them if you don't run no one's going to chase you if you don't do this I said, have you read or watched the George floyd.
00:41:30.180 --> 00:41:42.450 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: videos trial anything cuddle he did not act in appropriately and it still happened to him and so His story was if i'm this that'll all be good right so that's part of what.
00:41:43.200 --> 00:42:03.510 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: i'm hoping to help people recognize is yes there's that and and so watching what we tell ourselves and how it can be helpful, but not closing that off don't don't close the book on that story keep an open mind about Okay, I have this narrative but what else.
00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:06.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What other possible exactly.
00:42:06.390 --> 00:42:14.070 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I mean when I talk about our narrative and in this sense, his racial narrative my racial narrative your ratio it's.
00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:25.740 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: it's unique and it's global, in a sense, at times, and there, but there is a differentiation, because we all are individuals and have different conditioning and experiences around it.
00:42:26.010 --> 00:42:33.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yeah and what I love about what you're saying is that it's not an either or it's both and and when I talk about narratives.
00:42:33.690 --> 00:42:49.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Again, if we think about how much can I expand my narrative it actually helps to reduce the amount of fear anxiety, the frustrations that we have, I know that right now in.
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:57.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: A number of school districts they're talking about critical race theory and whether to teach that to children.
00:42:57.630 --> 00:43:06.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and their parents white parents, in particular, who are up in arms, because they say you're going to teach kids to hate America you're going to teach kids that they're racist.
00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:21.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's not what critical race theory is, and so I think, have you actually read what critical race theory is and are you willing to have another narrative be presented so that you don't have to feel like.
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:27.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it's something that's going to threaten cool you are it's time we wake up and know the truth about this country.
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:38.100 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Well, and the people who are against it, are also assuming that they're going to protect their kids and they don't even know if the kids I mean this might be good for the kids, and so this is an assumption that they're making.
00:43:38.130 --> 00:43:38.880 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: we're all making.
00:43:39.300 --> 00:43:45.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And and actually what we're finding out really is that kids actually want to talk about this stuff.
00:43:45.660 --> 00:43:51.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: horse they do want to talk about it and they want to do something about it, if we look at.
00:43:51.960 --> 00:44:01.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: 2020 and we look at those marches we look at the number of young kids who were out there, not just out there marching but I know of kids who.
00:44:01.650 --> 00:44:19.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Actually, were starting protests on their own, and so, when you go into a store and you see kids with their T shirts on, and you know how they're just advocating these kids are ready and they're more willing to engage in the work, sometimes, then those of us who are a little bit older but.
00:44:20.730 --> 00:44:30.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Gray, are they are so we do have to take another break we'll be back with dismantle racism with Reverend Dr tlc and today's guest Kim fuller.
00:44:31.740 --> 00:44:35.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: are listening to talk radio nyc.
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:54.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: i'm back with my guest today Kim fuller and we have been talking about transforming racial narratives.
00:46:55.410 --> 00:47:09.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Kim and I actually do some work together with helping it's turned out to be women but it's open to anybody around transforming racial narratives and it began because in our discussions we we We found that.
00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:19.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There are lots of stories that we carry around and stereotypes that we carry around about people of other races, and so we started this series called.
00:47:20.130 --> 00:47:35.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: White women tears black women's anger real talk series, and from that series what we've done is each month we come up with a theme so on June 14 we will be hosting a conversation around.
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:48.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: transformational parenting a little bit of what we're talking about today, but going a little bit more deeply in to that it has been such an eye opener to work.
00:47:49.230 --> 00:47:53.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: With the women that we work with around the narratives that we carry.
00:47:54.030 --> 00:48:01.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What I have found and I love camps talk about some of the things that she's noticed but i've found that people carry around a lot of guilt.
00:48:01.590 --> 00:48:16.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and shame and there were lots of ways, particularly folks who are of a certain age, there were lots of things that they were taught in the past about interacting with black people in particular.
00:48:17.580 --> 00:48:30.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That they are carrying around guilt about that now something that they wish they had done differently as a child, perhaps so cam and I do a lot of work around getting them to.
00:48:30.720 --> 00:48:42.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: release those old narratives and recreate new ones, but we've also noticed things about trust, as it relates to interracial relationships so Kim you want to talk a little bit about what you're noticing.
00:48:43.170 --> 00:48:49.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about the stories that folks carry whether it's with the workshops that we do, or just in your work in general.
00:48:50.100 --> 00:49:03.990 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: yeah well my work in general is is helping women sort of uncover what that story is that may be keeping them in a place of not looking for possibility, but what i've noticed in our workshops is is a similar thing.
00:49:05.130 --> 00:49:05.790 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: In that.
00:49:07.410 --> 00:49:21.390 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: If we hold on to some of the shame and the guilt and the experience this is that came from sometimes not even our own stuff because we were oftentimes some of the stories happen when we were children.
00:49:22.110 --> 00:49:32.760 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: A lot of it comes from something apparent said to us or or an experience like busing that happened to a woman of color or you know, whatever it might be and.
00:49:34.230 --> 00:49:40.080 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: We hold on to that, and so what we're finding is that if we can help someone say.
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:55.410 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Yes, let's talk about that, like share that story and then see what would happen if you can release that shame and guilt and how you can move forward from this place versus staying in that, and what happens when you do that because.
00:49:55.890 --> 00:50:04.200 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: One example was someone had to experience as a child, where their parent came in, they were playing with a little black boy, she was white and the dad said something like.
00:50:05.520 --> 00:50:15.240 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: You know what are you doing playing with a black kid and the poor black boy, you know, he was aware he'd probably been taught these things at home that you don't argue you don't make a fuss you just get up and leave.
00:50:15.660 --> 00:50:24.600 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And the girl was left with this guilt and shame about not defending her friend and all these things she's a 50 something year old woman now and still carries that around now.
00:50:25.350 --> 00:50:30.840 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I don't know if this is true for her, but in a blocked version of that are stuck story version.
00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:46.020 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: She may have fears about approaching, people are speaking up for people because that's still in her if she can learn to release that and say I was, I was six years old, seven years old, how old she wasn't that time I didn't know what I was doing, but now I do.
00:50:46.650 --> 00:50:48.480 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And I can let that go and say.
00:50:48.660 --> 00:51:03.990 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I want to move forward from that and be an advocate now and recognize when someone needs to be stood up for and use my voice right and say that was my dad's generation that wasn't me and that's making it your story versus someone else's story.
00:51:04.200 --> 00:51:11.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, and Kim I just want to add to that too, because I think it's also important for people of color with the experiences that we have.
00:51:12.210 --> 00:51:25.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is to also not stay stuck in those experiences now, it does not mean that we don't need to deal with the realities of what happens to us, it also does not mean that we don't need to get help for dealing with this.
00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:32.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And it doesn't mean allowing people to walk all over us, but what it does mean is that let's say I have been.
00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:37.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: badly mistreated by white women.
00:51:38.700 --> 00:51:44.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It doesn't mean that each time, I see a white woman that that white woman is out to get me.
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:54.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so I have to to be able to allow space to say, well, maybe Kim is a white woman that I can trust, because there is something also.
00:51:55.590 --> 00:52:05.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: energetically and I know we don't have time to really get into this, but if I carry these things around with me if I carry guilt shame fear all of that around me.
00:52:05.790 --> 00:52:17.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And then I began to interact with folks based on that you know you can tell what energetically what somebody else is feeling, and so it ends up being almost this cycle.
00:52:18.120 --> 00:52:28.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so I think that is really important look we're we're not saying changing the narrative is easy, because I don't want anybody to walk away from here, thinking that.
00:52:28.530 --> 00:52:40.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What we're saying is that it's easy what we are saying is that if you get the help with changing the narrative it becomes a little bit easier.
00:52:41.160 --> 00:52:52.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're saying that but we're also saying, if you began the process saying i'm open to a new narrative i'm open to revelation in this moments.
00:52:53.280 --> 00:53:04.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That can have a profound effect on your life and what I find in the work that you and I do together it's really amazing I think particularly.
00:53:04.860 --> 00:53:19.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: As as being interracial collaborators, and this is that we get such a mixed group of women in our conversations and the dynamics are great and we create this space.
00:53:20.190 --> 00:53:29.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Where we actually can deal with some of the thoughts and the narratives that we have about one another because we have an open dialogue where people can ask about their stereotypes, they can.
00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:47.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Ask about their beliefs and and just all of that, and they get clarity, so I think that's what's beautiful but I want to see if you have any final thoughts about narratives or other things that you'd like to leave with us because we're getting close to time that we have to say goodbye.
00:53:47.490 --> 00:54:02.460 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Well, my most important takeaway really is that I think we have to work on ourselves, and I even know that when when Kai Dell was going through some of the things that he was going through, I would say to him things like you can choose to stay in this place of upset disruption.
00:54:03.630 --> 00:54:14.850 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Anger wherever you are, you can live that kind of life, but you only you can change and decide if you want to choose happiness and getting, along with other people and.
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:22.770 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: He was having a challenging time getting along with people, and I said, if you need help and support for me i'm always here for you or if you need a therapist or whatever.
00:54:23.250 --> 00:54:27.090 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: But we've got to work on ourselves if we don't heal ourselves, we can never heal.
00:54:28.080 --> 00:54:36.540 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: The other situations, ie racism in this country, we must heal our own wounds our own traumas and remember where we came from.
00:54:37.110 --> 00:54:47.460 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: we're not you know i'm not someone who, who was a slave owner, but I need to know that that was happening in my culture, you know and so.
00:54:48.000 --> 00:55:00.840 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: it's just to be aware of your own stuff where you hold on what is your narrative so that's what I really love helping people with is uncovering that and transforming it, not only with you, but in the born to rise programs and story sharing nights.
00:55:01.590 --> 00:55:09.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So Kim tell our audience how they can be in touch with you how they can get a copy of your book and a download Applause
00:55:09.900 --> 00:55:23.580 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Sure, so finding is the name of the book and it's on Amazon, and my work is under born to rise at born to rise dot live Li ve and you can sign up for my email list there.
00:55:25.020 --> 00:55:29.520 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And there's information about the pause method and mindfulness there as well, but.
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:38.460 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: I do have a story festival coming up in the fall, which you know if you may want to hear about that or if you ever want to share a personal story in the born to rise platform.
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:48.390 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: or run it as a workshop in your company or anything like that it's so empowering and I would love to share that with you so born to rise live is really the best place to start that conversation.
00:55:49.980 --> 00:55:59.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It has been so wonderful having you on our show today I want to invite our audience to stay tuned for the conscious consultant hour with Sam Lewis.
00:55:59.640 --> 00:56:11.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I invite you to return again next week to dismantle racism, can we have about a minute left of the show, is there a blessing that you could offer to our audience today.
00:56:12.150 --> 00:56:31.350 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: Sure i'll just say I am sitting in complete gratitude and, as I breathe in and breathe out i'm taking in your your pain and your suffering in some way that I can imagine, bringing it into my heart and sending it back out as a beautiful white light wishing you.
00:56:32.550 --> 00:56:35.520 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: happiness joy peace.
00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:50.970 Kim Fuller - Born to Rise?: And from me to you just extreme gratitude for tuning in today and to you Tara Lynn for holding space for these kinds of conversations hopefully we can begin to heal ourselves versus others on this day.
00:56:51.690 --> 00:56:58.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: i'm gonna say thank you all for joining us we'll see you next time on dismantle racism, with the Reverend Dr T lc.