The Mind Behind Leadership

Thursday, December 3, 2020
Facebook Live Video from 2020/12/03 - Local to Global Leadership

Facebook Live Video from 2020/12/03 - Local to Global Leadership


2020/12/03 - Local to Global Leadership

[NEW EPISODE] Local to Global Leadership

Juliette Dennett is Managing Director, Dale Carnegie, Northern UK & the President of the International Dale Carnegie Franchise Association

Juliette has 20 years’ experience as a coach, speaker and trainer, and specializes in senior team facilitation. In addition to her local role, as IDCFA President Juliette provides input to the global strategy and its implementation with the Senior Leadership Team in New York.

Prior to joining Dale Carnegie Juliette held leadership roles with Revlon and IBM. She has a BA in Modern Languages and Business Studies from Leeds University and L’Universite Libre de Bruxelles.

We'll be exploring Juliette's thoughts about moving from Corporate to being an Entrepreneur along with the responsibility of leading a Global association during a pandemic.

Tune in for this insightful conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Segment 1

This week Graham welcomes Juliette Dennett, Managing Director, Dale Carnegie, Northern UK & the President of the International Dale Carnegie Franchise Association.  Prior to joining Dale Carnegie Juliette held leadership roles with Revlon and IBM. She has a BA in Modern Languages and Business Studies from Leeds University and L’Universite Libre de Bruxelles. Graham opens up asking Juliette to describe her roles. She then discusses the differences in approach between her different roles. Graham then asks Juliette what it felt like to be elected and first non-American and first woman in the role. Juliette then dives into how Carnegie has handled things through the pandemic, in the beginning and until where we stand now. In closing Graham asks Juliette what she enjoys most about the role.

Segment 2

In the opening of this segment Graham asks Juliette the differences of men and women in leadership and the approach. They further discuss the starting point for women in leadership and where that moves them forward in leadership. Juliette discusses the compassionate approach and how it helps the culture in an organization. Graham then asks why are we seeing certain patterns in the emergence in women leaderships and the similar approaches. They close this segment discussing the initiatives in different countries and organizations to put women in leadership and whether that can help things or hurt some causes.

Segment 3

In the opening of this segment Graham asks Juliette whether there are new approaches or attributes to leadership or just new ways to use the traditional markers of being a leader, especially in times like this. They then discuss the innovation around digital and technology in order to address working in the middle of the pandemic.  Graham asks Juliette for any examples of techniques or approaches that have not worked in this new world during the pandemic to which Juliette provides some background. Graham then talks about some of the shifts in business and professional standards being that we use Zoom and video for conversing and having meetings.

Segment 4

They open this segment discussing how the track is going for businesses towards getting to pre-COVID levels and Juliette discusses personally where she is on track. Grahams asks Juliette what advice she would give herself as a young entrepreneur and how others can use that today. Graham asks Juliette any leaders she currently looks up to. They then further discuss Juliette and her decision making and the approaches she has used and what works and what doesn’t. In closing Graham asks Juliette 3 important traits of being a good leader.


00:00:23.490 --> 00:00:28.650 Graham Dobbin: Good evening and welcome to the mind behind leadership here on talk radio dot NYC.

00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:39.090 Graham Dobbin: My name is Graham Tobin and every Thursday we will exploring practical leadership, how it works on a daily basis. The impact we have on ourselves and others.

00:00:39.720 --> 00:00:47.370 Graham Dobbin: And this year, more than most. We have one eye on what's happening globally. We're all looking for an indication of how others are coping with 2020

00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:57.570 Graham Dobbin: And whether it be political leaders business innovation how communities are creatively dealing with an uncertain and volatile environment was personally in

00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:05.850 Graham Dobbin: Business and in business. This evening we are truly lucky we have got someone who can bring a perspective from both sides.

00:01:06.240 --> 00:01:17.550 Graham Dobbin: And this evening's guest is Juliet Bennett, who is the Managing Director of Dale Carnegie in northern UK now Julia is responsible for the accomplishment of the UK strategic plan.

00:01:18.150 --> 00:01:27.600 Graham Dobbin: And the development of the team. She has 20 years experience as a coach a speaker and trainer and specializes in senior team facilitation.

00:01:28.170 --> 00:01:35.970 Graham Dobbin: As if that's not enough, Julia is also the president of the International Dale Carnegie franchise association. So why is that important.

00:01:36.570 --> 00:01:48.090 Graham Dobbin: This is an association that represents franchisees in over 80 countries, giving them a voice sharing best practice and probably more so this year than any other one we can remember is being there for each other.

00:01:48.690 --> 00:01:53.310 Graham Dobbin: It could be regarded as the glue that holds everything together. And as the President

00:01:53.760 --> 00:02:01.500 Graham Dobbin: Julia actual is to have that input to the global strategy and its implementation with the senior leadership team here in New York.

00:02:01.890 --> 00:02:17.460 Graham Dobbin: I prior to joining Dale Carnegie Juliet held leadership roles with the Revlon and IBM and she has a BA in modern languages. I'm business studies from Leeds University and the University of Brussels as a big welcome Julia.

00:02:18.210 --> 00:02:18.810 Juliette Dennett: Thank you.

00:02:19.440 --> 00:02:20.160 Graham Dobbin: Good to see you.

00:02:20.790 --> 00:02:21.930 Juliette Dennett: Good to be with you.

00:02:22.410 --> 00:02:31.260 Graham Dobbin: I'm just you've got you've got two really big roles here Giuliana. Can you just give us an overview of of both roles and get into, into them.

00:02:32.580 --> 00:02:46.110 Juliette Dennett: Yeah. So as an entrepreneur and a business owner, I own a small business with a team of about 20 people and I run the day to day operations and implement the strategy for that.

00:02:46.890 --> 00:03:00.600 Juliette Dennett: For that organization that's my day job. That's the day, that's the the role that earns me a living, and then I have the other role, which is the president of the International franchise Association.

00:03:01.260 --> 00:03:14.550 Juliette Dennett: Which is really quite different in the sense, I'm there to represent a lot of like minded franchise owners like myself to be able to give their perspective to decisions being made at our

00:03:15.150 --> 00:03:28.530 Juliette Dennett: head office in New York and and yeah, to be able to provide support for them, which, as you can imagine, in the year we've just have still having this being pretty important all around.

00:03:29.340 --> 00:03:32.370 Graham Dobbin: I'm, I'm, could you wait. You mentioned the word entrepreneur.

00:03:33.540 --> 00:03:44.760 Graham Dobbin: Um, you've held leadership roles at IBM and Revlon was the wizard wizard wizard wizard a moment where you kind of woke up one morning and said, right, I'm going to do this myself. Well, what led to that.

00:03:45.630 --> 00:03:57.210 Juliette Dennett: And not not particularly I think I went from that's quite corporate environments and to working within the Dale Carnegie franchise and

00:03:57.870 --> 00:04:08.700 Juliette Dennett: I think I was always quite ambitious and more than a, like a competitive. So I think I always wanted the top job really in the top job in the franchise was owning it. So I'm not sure that

00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:20.640 Juliette Dennett: Entrepreneurship was ever the goal and and but but certainly running the business was definitely the, the aim for me. And yeah, and the objective

00:04:21.450 --> 00:04:36.900 Graham Dobbin: So how the rules, different curious. Obviously if you make you got small business, you got a team of 20 in the UK, but then you've got this role was a president with our members all over the world how made before. So what's the difference in approach here.

00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:41.220 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, I think any small business owner would relate to the

00:04:42.390 --> 00:04:54.630 Juliette Dennett: To the fact that, you know, as a business owner, you have a team of people, the leadership there is all about achieving desired outcomes through the combined endeavors of everybody in the team.

00:04:55.200 --> 00:05:07.020 Juliette Dennett: And the other role where you're elected to represent a group of people is quite different, because you almost report to that entire membership of people

00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:16.890 Juliette Dennett: And and everybody has an opinion on what the right course of action is and how you should be best representing them.

00:05:17.310 --> 00:05:32.280 Juliette Dennett: So as I suppose in the past couple of years that's given me some insight into what it must be like to be a politically elected leader, you know, damned if you do and damned if you don't really enjoyable nonetheless.

00:05:33.300 --> 00:05:35.460 Graham Dobbin: Does that give you any aspirations to do politics.

00:05:35.580 --> 00:05:36.240 Juliette Dennett: And no, no.

00:05:37.980 --> 00:05:39.120 Graham Dobbin: I just I check

00:05:40.890 --> 00:05:42.720 Graham Dobbin: Um, so

00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:46.020 Graham Dobbin: being elected. I also know that the

00:05:47.070 --> 00:05:55.590 Graham Dobbin: Table, which is your back. How did it feel to be elected, but you've got a role there that you know that people have to turn around said we want you to be in that position.

00:05:56.910 --> 00:06:13.890 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, when I was initially nominated and it was honestly just complete shock and disbelief. I just never saw myself in this role, and I think the reason for that is that all my predecessors that I'm aware of where a certain fit. So they were

00:06:14.460 --> 00:06:19.320 Juliette Dennett: Big personality strong communicating

00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:34.530 Juliette Dennett: America american males and I was just none of those things, and therefore I was surprised that anybody thought I would be the right person for the role. So literally, it was that it was trying to get my head round the fact that I just didn't seem to fit.

00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.710 Juliette Dennett: The, the model for this particular role.

00:06:39.060 --> 00:06:43.050 Graham Dobbin: Okay, so first on American first female in the role

00:06:44.670 --> 00:06:46.260 Juliette Dennett: Yeah. Yes.

00:06:46.710 --> 00:06:49.710 Graham Dobbin: Does that, does that bring any particular challenges.

00:06:52.710 --> 00:07:04.590 Juliette Dennett: It gave me an opportunity in the role. So it gave me an opportunity to really represent the entire global network in what is very much a North American organization.

00:07:05.250 --> 00:07:16.500 Juliette Dennett: And so I hope what I've been able to do in part is highlight both the achievements and the challenges that our colleagues all around the world.

00:07:16.830 --> 00:07:35.580 Juliette Dennett: Face on a day to day basis. And that, of course, has just been accentuated by the whole Kobe situation that everybody in some way or or that has suffered through the pandemic, but the way people have suffered has been quite different. So just being able to highlight that.

00:07:37.170 --> 00:07:55.200 Juliette Dennett: Has been important and to be able to bring that perspective, as I say to the Dale Carnegie head office to senior team to make sure people are truly global in their outlook and it has been very important for me to bring that puts

00:07:55.380 --> 00:08:04.020 Graham Dobbin: Can you give us some idea of what kind of things have been surprising to you when you obviously your deal with your own business and how that's impacting in the UK.

00:08:04.470 --> 00:08:08.160 Graham Dobbin: But also when you're looking out to to what's happening elsewhere in the world because

00:08:08.520 --> 00:08:15.780 Graham Dobbin: One of the things when we've been speaking with global leaders over the last few weeks, it's, it's always about this wave, it's about

00:08:16.080 --> 00:08:22.410 Graham Dobbin: Or things are things are different here and some people are ahead of the curve. Some people behind. In fact, in New York.

00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:35.160 Graham Dobbin: We were were in front of the curve know we've kind of got more things in control, but other things are happening in the US. So we are seeing it internally you for for course that giving you that kind of perspective has been any surprises.

00:08:36.450 --> 00:08:46.470 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, I think it's at one point we kind of could see that wave, as you say, rolling around the world and we were looking to Asia. At one point, very much, for, you know, hope that

00:08:46.800 --> 00:08:49.500 Juliette Dennett: They have the answer to how we came through this and

00:08:49.830 --> 00:09:03.390 Juliette Dennett: Gradually the wave heat everywhere. And then there was a low and then it started again. And I think some of those places that were not so badly affected the first time around, have been lost. So second time around. So

00:09:03.930 --> 00:09:11.820 Juliette Dennett: Uh, yeah, it's just kept us on our toes. The whole time really to just to try and figure out how to best handle the impact of it.

00:09:12.450 --> 00:09:25.260 Graham Dobbin: So have you seen things from certain areas that have a load, maybe an easier plan or a different perspective on a plan on areas on a boat to, you know, things are about to happen has has not changed.

00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:34.110 Juliette Dennett: How people plan on it. I mean, globally, the way that the Dale Carnegie business has been able to

00:09:35.550 --> 00:09:46.050 Juliette Dennett: To survive. And let's help thrive through the pandemic has been to completely pivot from in person training to digital training.

00:09:46.650 --> 00:09:58.110 Juliette Dennett: And I think it's fair to say, in the beginning, there were some areas where people thought, you know, I'm just going to hunker down and wait for this horrid thing to go past and then we'll all emerge fine and we'll carry on us. We were

00:09:58.680 --> 00:10:06.300 Juliette Dennett: And and of course it was never going to be like that. So there were for certain throughout our network. There were early adopters.

00:10:06.780 --> 00:10:16.890 Juliette Dennett: Who just got on board with with digital right away. I think now we're seeing those people a better place going into whatever new normal we're in now.

00:10:17.370 --> 00:10:29.280 Juliette Dennett: And there are other people who are now having to accept that, that things have truly changed and a chasing to catch up. So I think those are the biggest differences that that we've seen.

00:10:30.690 --> 00:10:34.530 Graham Dobbin: Um, so what do you enjoy most about it. About the usual

00:10:35.610 --> 00:10:36.600 Juliette Dennett: About each role.

00:10:36.630 --> 00:10:37.080 Yeah.

00:10:38.370 --> 00:10:43.620 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, I think that the the role of running the business and

00:10:44.700 --> 00:10:55.830 Juliette Dennett: It's about setting setting goals and achieving them. One of my biggest drivers is about the team around us. So being able to develop

00:10:56.340 --> 00:11:04.620 Juliette Dennett: A good group of people and allowing them to shine, allowing them to share in the glory and and watching them grow and

00:11:05.250 --> 00:11:23.370 Juliette Dennett: And develop to be able to achieve more. I think very much the people side of it is that driver for me. And in my own business. And similarly, I think having an impact, being able to have an impact for colleagues franchisees around the world that's

00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:39.390 Juliette Dennett: That's what keeps me focused and enjoying the role of President as well. So I think the thing that they both have in common is that I have a wonderful opportunity to make an impact, whether that's on customer

00:11:41.070 --> 00:11:51.450 Juliette Dennett: Customers in my business. Our franchisees around the world are people in the team. I think just being able to make a positive difference is a, it's a great privilege.

00:11:52.350 --> 00:12:04.590 Graham Dobbin: It's interesting you see sort of early adopters and you're talking about some of the things have happened over the last few months, we've discussed this probably on most weeks since it happened on the show that

00:12:04.980 --> 00:12:12.270 Graham Dobbin: The seem to be this change when Google came out here and said that they weren't going to be opening their offices again until July 21

00:12:12.930 --> 00:12:27.960 Graham Dobbin: So sharpen, take a breath and then it was really obvious this is probably something we needed because other people began to follow suit and there was no longer that that it will change next month. It will change. Next one, people will realize they need to do something and

00:12:29.040 --> 00:12:37.140 Graham Dobbin: I suppose when we take uncertainty out of business. And we celebrate that. This is what we're dealing with until we're dealing with something different. It helps a lot.

00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:54.540 Juliette Dennett: Yes. Yeah, definitely. And I can recall you know it as you've described already. It has been an emotional roller coaster as well. So, for sure. I'd like to consider that we were perhaps early adopters in this, but there were those moments when I was seeing those

00:12:54.870 --> 00:13:02.550 Juliette Dennett: Type of organizations make those big decisions and thinking, why are you doing that. No, it's not going to be as bad as that.

00:13:02.970 --> 00:13:15.300 Juliette Dennett: And. But then at the same time having to realize that. Yeah, actually we had to take some big decisions ourselves. So, in some way, some of those organizations. I think have provided

00:13:15.780 --> 00:13:27.420 Juliette Dennett: And the leadership for the business world to say, Come on. This is the reality and and we just need to get on board with that.

00:13:28.680 --> 00:13:40.140 Graham Dobbin: Yeah, I mean it's giving a lot of is giving perspective and just get almost giving permission that this is a type of thing we can do. We're gonna go to break in a moment. Afterwards, I'd be really good to explore

00:13:41.580 --> 00:13:55.920 Graham Dobbin: You said you know first first on American first women in in a position like this within, within a global organization at this global organization Dale Carnegie just women and men come out leadership differently and

00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:08.580 Graham Dobbin: How do we maybe approach and how do we deal with that. So we're going to look at that, after the break. So I'm you're listening to my leadership with with Juliet Dennett from Dale Carnegie and we'll be right back after

00:16:25.560 --> 00:16:36.750 Graham Dobbin: Come back, you're listening to the mind behind leadership. We're talking with Juliet Dennett this evening from Dale Carnegie Julia. Are you impressed. I can say, Carnegie. No, I'm seeing it, the American way.

00:16:37.170 --> 00:16:38.580 Juliette Dennett: Very impressed. Yes.

00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:39.060 Graham Dobbin: Good. I like

00:16:39.090 --> 00:16:41.310 Juliette Dennett: To go to school long to be able to do that.

00:16:42.690 --> 00:16:44.160 Graham Dobbin: We were talking about

00:16:45.750 --> 00:16:58.590 Graham Dobbin: Female leadership. I'm just what's your thoughts to women and men come at this differently. You said that you know you didn't maybe have the fit of what you saw. Traditionally, is the person that would fill this role.

00:17:00.210 --> 00:17:02.640 Graham Dobbin: So just let us know. What do you think

00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:08.490 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, it's awesome. I want to be very careful not to stereotype.

00:17:09.120 --> 00:17:24.120 Juliette Dennett: People into boxes because that that's just not a true reflection. I think what I would say is I think maybe most women approach leadership from a different place to man. So I think

00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:37.290 Juliette Dennett: And I think women tend to come at this from a, from an emotional intelligence point of view of compassion and understanding of course I'm not saying that men don't have those

00:17:38.010 --> 00:17:48.570 Juliette Dennett: Important leadership attributes as well. And of course they do. I just think that's maybe the starting point for more women and maybe it's something that

00:17:49.380 --> 00:18:02.730 Juliette Dennett: More men find they want to work at that as opposed to that. So starting point. So I can you tell I'm trying to tiptoe through as possible. But that's kind of the general direction.

00:18:03.270 --> 00:18:17.880 Graham Dobbin: But you know, it's interesting emotional intelligence is kind of one of these things that seems to come up every so often over the last few years. I ran a program last year for the US Army on emotional intelligence and exactly

00:18:18.870 --> 00:18:37.560 Graham Dobbin: Not when I expected to be to be running a program like that. So let's assume that there is you know a way that percentage of women come at it from that place. What do you think that then does in their portion. What, what does it do to to the kind of results that again.

00:18:40.260 --> 00:18:49.680 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, I think it's about bringing a kind of compassion to leading people, I think that's what's different. And I think, you know, if I go back

00:18:50.280 --> 00:19:12.150 Juliette Dennett: A couple of decades. And unfortunately, I can recall things from that long ago and I think maybe you know women who were successful as leaders back then a lot of them were successful because they were good at demonstrating more male strengths. I can tell I'm going to get into difficult

00:19:12.210 --> 00:19:25.980 Juliette Dennett: Okay, difficult ground here but but i think the ability for women to be themselves to be female to bring the emotional side of being human, to the role

00:19:26.850 --> 00:19:39.270 Juliette Dennett: That's that. I just think that's an important attributes bring along with everything that leaders generally male or female will bring to the role, I just think that's an important aspects.

00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:43.380 Graham Dobbin: You think it's still seen on a general basis that when people

00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:51.300 Graham Dobbin: On emotional leadership or short compassion. They was definitely a point, but it was seen as a weakness.

00:19:51.690 --> 00:19:52.950 Juliette Dennett: Yeah. Yes.

00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:54.390 Graham Dobbin: I think that's still the case.

00:19:55.560 --> 00:19:56.820 Juliette Dennett: Sometimes

00:19:56.910 --> 00:20:10.980 Juliette Dennett: I have encountered that and my approach is generally very much relationship based I feel I'm particularly in the, you know, the President role that I have on the franchise Association.

00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:27.240 Juliette Dennett: Sometimes it's about bringing a strong point of view, to our, our franchise off and being able to bring that powerful in and change people's point of view and know my way is absolutely not to grandstand and

00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:39.660 Juliette Dennett: And kind of battle it out my way is to have the quiet conversations to have the one to ones to to build trust in those relationships really to

00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:49.560 Juliette Dennett: To bring about change. So that's, that's my way that doesn't necessarily mean says the best way by any means, but it's the way I can make it work.

00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:50.610 And

00:20:51.720 --> 00:21:07.230 Graham Dobbin: Again, I got this. This what compassion. So women are generally with female leaders are seeing as compassionate leaders and maybe maybe kind of strong leaders. Is it, is it too simplistic to kind of look at it and lost in those forms or

00:21:07.890 --> 00:21:20.040 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, maybe simplistic and I suppose it depends on how you define strength as well. Um, but, um, yeah. And I think perhaps what's helpful.

00:21:20.820 --> 00:21:26.820 Juliette Dennett: In the compassionate approach is in the kind of work environment, the culture that that develops.

00:21:27.210 --> 00:21:40.170 Juliette Dennett: And in an organization. And again, you know, times change it. It amazes me even now that in the, you know, in our organization which is about developing leaders and helping them to develop culture.

00:21:40.620 --> 00:21:49.800 Juliette Dennett: You know leaders tend to accept that, everything changes in business and yet so often I find they don't realize that leadership and management changes as well.

00:21:50.520 --> 00:22:06.210 Juliette Dennett: And the way we approach it has to change. And so yeah, so I think being understanding that today's, you know, new generations entering the workforce have completely different expectations of their careers of their work life of

00:22:06.810 --> 00:22:17.280 Juliette Dennett: Work life balance, and so on. But, you know, if we're not in tune with that. And, well, it just makes creating followers, a lot more difficult. It's

00:22:17.910 --> 00:22:31.800 Graham Dobbin: It's interesting. It approaches and there's a lot of debate at the moment, especially, we will look at what's going on. I'm in 2020 they so many countries that are actually doing the best of female leaders.

00:22:32.910 --> 00:22:36.960 Graham Dobbin: And there's a lot of talking about whether it be New Zealand or Norway or

00:22:38.520 --> 00:22:50.700 Graham Dobbin: Even when you look in the UK. I know there's another swings and roundabouts on a bit bit you know it was generally accepted the Scotland was maybe handling it. And it certainly the different way, but it was better or not is subjective.

00:22:51.300 --> 00:22:57.240 Graham Dobbin: But I'm selling a different way than the rest of the UK Germany's lead the way as well.

00:22:58.560 --> 00:23:04.380 Graham Dobbin: Do you think is that part of it thing that is actually why is why we're seeing that kind of pattern.

00:23:04.800 --> 00:23:13.950 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, it's just interesting and I've asked myself that before. I mean, I think the standout example for me was probably just in there and Adam from

00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:25.470 Juliette Dennett: New Zealand yeah and and i just think her great strength was that she was totally real. You know how communication was, you know, I'm a mom I'm and everyday kind of person.

00:23:26.190 --> 00:23:36.300 Juliette Dennett: Here is let's apply some good common sense to this, I would say that her style and her leadership approach is pretty different to somebody like Angela Merkel in in Germany.

00:23:36.870 --> 00:23:44.550 Juliette Dennett: And then of course there's also, those are those countries, rather. I've also been hit a bit differently second time around. So

00:23:45.480 --> 00:24:01.260 Juliette Dennett: So yeah, I'm not sure. Overall, but I do think that relate ability is is so important now and and and for sure. I think UK politicians and maybe us ones as well struggle a bit with the with that.

00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.160 Graham Dobbin: Essentially, you just hit on something that they that

00:24:06.540 --> 00:24:16.560 Graham Dobbin: Concerns me sometimes and leadership, because those are the headlines. But you say, I just end up down and Anglo American completely different styles.

00:24:17.190 --> 00:24:30.960 Graham Dobbin: So I just wonder if we can look for easy label sometimes about the boss women so that that kind of means that there's something in it, rather than the style of leadership that we talked about, regardless of male or female.

00:24:31.350 --> 00:24:42.030 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, a male leader could have had the same approaches as we saw in New Zealand, and it could have been exactly as effective.

00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:51.810 Juliette Dennett: So I'm not sure whether the female element is whether that was a coincidence, or whether there really is something behind that, in that instance

00:24:52.500 --> 00:25:03.030 Graham Dobbin: I know there's a lot of. There's a lot of initiatives to get women into leadership and gentlemen, you just last week I was getting the Guardian at the weekend. The Germany last week has just

00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:08.160 Graham Dobbin: Started that they're saying that 50% of the boardroom.

00:25:09.330 --> 00:25:13.800 Graham Dobbin: Should be made up of a leader. So for listed companies. This is actually going to be a requirement.

00:25:15.810 --> 00:25:20.280 Graham Dobbin: Help things are not we we started with the minimum requirements.

00:25:20.550 --> 00:25:32.760 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, unless the same things in place in the UK. Now as well and I have mixed feelings about it. So I do think I'm a strong believer in a meritocracy. So

00:25:34.020 --> 00:25:52.980 Juliette Dennett: You know, the idea that we deliberately pick out women and put them into roles. I'm not such a big fan of that way forward. However, when we shift the agenda to really set these as objectives, then I think it creates a context in which we can do some things differently and

00:25:54.300 --> 00:26:06.150 Juliette Dennett: I think in all organizations, we have to look at the culture they approach of senior leadership to say, Is there a reason. If we have a gender gap. Is there a reason why either

00:26:06.570 --> 00:26:17.460 Juliette Dennett: Women are selected for senior leadership roles are a reason why women don't feel comfortable applying for them are putting themselves forward for those roles.

00:26:17.820 --> 00:26:21.330 Juliette Dennett: So quite often we have to look at the culture of an organization to

00:26:21.780 --> 00:26:35.190 Juliette Dennett: And rather than look at what what do we need to do to fix in these women's make sure that they can make it up the ladder is maybe think what's the environment in which they're operating and what is there in that environment that that is holding them back.

00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:42.660 Juliette Dennett: So, for example, there's an organization. I'm fairly familiar with, which used to have a fairly old fashioned

00:26:43.770 --> 00:26:49.620 Juliette Dennett: Barely command and control style at management and all the senior managers were men and they had a fairly

00:26:51.150 --> 00:27:02.820 Juliette Dennett: Almost aggressive way of dealing with under performance. And what I realized as I got closer to them was they were actually uncomfortable having that kind of a relationship with a woman.

00:27:03.690 --> 00:27:11.070 Juliette Dennett: So it was okay to speak to a man that way, but they would have been uncomfortable doing that with to a woman. So I think that case.

00:27:11.610 --> 00:27:21.540 Juliette Dennett: They were reluctant to promote women to that situation and also women probably didn't, you know, that wasn't an environment in which they would have felt comfortable either so

00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:32.040 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, sometimes it's about the the culture that we have to shift in order to that women can see themselves in those senior leadership roles.

00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:33.030 That

00:27:34.170 --> 00:27:49.170 Graham Dobbin: It's interesting because there's a lot of women in leadership programs I see them advertise all the same. Does that help when when when when something specific or or trying it feels like almost second guessing what's required

00:27:50.250 --> 00:27:52.290 Graham Dobbin: Rather than dealing with the big picture.

00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:56.640 Juliette Dennett: I suppose, anything that that helps to develop

00:27:58.230 --> 00:28:10.890 Juliette Dennett: To develop women is a good thing. I have my concerns about women only leadership programs and initiatives and so on. I mean, in the first instance of thing.

00:28:11.490 --> 00:28:21.960 Juliette Dennett: You know, if we if we develop women to be effective leaders only when there are only other women in the room, then I'm not quite sure how that how that helps them.

00:28:22.950 --> 00:28:35.730 Juliette Dennett: I've been asked by organizations before that now quite big organizations to set would you know about designing a women, women in leadership development program.

00:28:35.730 --> 00:28:36.330 Juliette Dennett: For them.

00:28:36.510 --> 00:28:50.490 Juliette Dennett: And my concern in that situation is, how are you treating the men differently. So I don't think that's an ideal way, I think, very often it senior leadership who need the development to help create the right environment in which women can flourish and grow.

00:28:52.560 --> 00:28:58.950 Graham Dobbin: Um, but, but to go to a break after the break we're going to can kind of talk about weeding through through change.

00:28:59.610 --> 00:29:09.180 Graham Dobbin: Because there's, there is obviously a big focus this year on on the change has been unfortunate but business has got changing happening all the time.

00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:14.610 Graham Dobbin: So we just want to have a better understanding if we're probably if we've got the resources they are already

00:29:15.150 --> 00:29:19.620 Graham Dobbin: It's just in a slightly different contexts. And also, what are some of the leadership mistakes.

00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:31.020 Graham Dobbin: That we see happening on a regular basis. You're listening to the mind behind leadership. We are lucky enough to be speaking with Juliet Dennett from Dale Carnegie this evening, I will be right back after these

00:31:58.950 --> 00:32:04.200 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back to the main buying leadership, I will be Graham Dobbin we're speaking with Juliet Dennett

00:32:04.650 --> 00:32:20.310 Graham Dobbin: I'm Julia where we talk about leadership in general, then one of the things that I've had a lot of over the last few months, is that we need to find new ways of dealing with things. I actually just wondered if we've kind of got the skills, but it's just a different context for, for example.

00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:31.170 Graham Dobbin: I hear a lot with emerging leaders about finding voices. So we do public speaking and being able to being able to speak out and speak up and get our

00:32:31.620 --> 00:32:36.000 Graham Dobbin: Message over, but this is something that Warren Buffett speaks of both from the 1950s.

00:32:36.330 --> 00:32:50.580 Graham Dobbin: Have a big been the biggest change for his whole career will be able to speak up. So, wondering if we if there are new things we should be thinking about with leadership or is it taking kind of what we've always known in just we need to deal with it in this situation.

00:32:52.110 --> 00:33:01.680 Juliette Dennett: It may be the skills, the skills develop and evolve and the context for certain as changed. For example, and

00:33:02.100 --> 00:33:15.120 Juliette Dennett: Through the pandemic, where we have so many people now working remotely working from home so leaders have had to learn pretty quickly how to let go of micromanaging

00:33:15.510 --> 00:33:25.830 Juliette Dennett: And be able to trust people and empower them and let people have their voice and be able to speak up and contribute so

00:33:26.670 --> 00:33:46.860 Juliette Dennett: Have see the skill is being able to make the changes internally in ourselves as quickly as we, you know, they have to be made in the organization. But, but certainly style of leadership has had to change pretty quickly in order for for organizations, just to continue to function effectively.

00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:57.570 Graham Dobbin: It's interesting is that will be speaking for years that kind of micromanagement in the main doesn't work. It might, you know, it might be needed in certain circumstances.

00:33:58.260 --> 00:34:05.250 Graham Dobbin: But, in the main, it doesn't want know we're getting into a situation where he almost can't work when we don't have the facility to do it.

00:34:06.540 --> 00:34:19.380 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, for sure. And, and, yeah, that people have to find the most effective way of being able to motivate and understand and

00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:26.010 Juliette Dennett: And manage people who are just not in their immediate vicinity anymore.

00:34:26.460 --> 00:34:29.670 Juliette Dennett: So, and being able to pick up on those

00:34:29.970 --> 00:34:42.180 Juliette Dennett: You know the little signals that when you're in the same office as somebody are passing someone in the car, a doll that those, those kind of things we pick up on is learning how the heck do we do that in a virtual environment or through a screen.

00:34:42.630 --> 00:34:45.690 Juliette Dennett: So we're having to learn some things pretty quickly.

00:34:46.620 --> 00:34:55.350 Graham Dobbin: Okay with them. Dr. Tony Alessandra on just a few weeks ago. He's probably one of the most, one of the leading authorities in the world and desk.

00:34:55.800 --> 00:35:00.540 Graham Dobbin: And we're just talking about assessments about how you take the guesswork out of what you can't see know

00:35:01.050 --> 00:35:05.190 Graham Dobbin: You know how you can get behind what's happening in the teams and so

00:35:05.670 --> 00:35:16.440 Graham Dobbin: For examples, have you seen some good examples where companies embrace you know we've spoken about Dale Carnegie embracing and sin. Right. We need to move online need to move digitally. How do we engage people

00:35:16.830 --> 00:35:29.910 Graham Dobbin: Have you seen other companies that you may be working with that have just managed to do that, get that balance between being productive and effective host also looking after staff and it's something that's moving very quickly.

00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:44.700 Juliette Dennett: Yeah we I was hosting an exec HR round table just last week and some of the innovation that's being implemented by organizations to really take care of people and make sure

00:35:45.150 --> 00:35:51.060 Juliette Dennett: That they're okay, you know, just all kinds of different things. Just little things to let people know that

00:35:51.480 --> 00:36:05.310 Juliette Dennett: And you know, we care about you. Those one organization was organizing, you know, dropping doorstep drops of food and drink and little treat some things, but as staff.

00:36:05.730 --> 00:36:09.330 Juliette Dennett: All kinds of different ways of engaging people online.

00:36:10.080 --> 00:36:22.590 Juliette Dennett: And fun ways to do that different approaches to meetings because that's the latest thing. Now what used to be a casual conversation in the office is now a you know a zoom link and a set time and

00:36:23.250 --> 00:36:32.580 Juliette Dennett: Everything is meetings wall to wall meetings and and you know we heard from one organization about the the innovation that they've

00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:44.580 Juliette Dennett: Introduced around meetings about maximum length of time and the ability to where they are encouraging people to speak up and challenge, whether or not they should even be in the meeting and so on. So,

00:36:44.970 --> 00:36:54.360 Juliette Dennett: Just all kinds of things that organizations have encountered and and it was just great to hear that so many of the innovations coming from this situation.

00:36:55.350 --> 00:37:03.030 Graham Dobbin: If you've got any companies that are dropping off food and drink and add a new york address. I'll give you mine, after the show, just in case.

00:37:04.290 --> 00:37:05.970 Graham Dobbin: That would be that would be more than welcome.

00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:07.080 Juliette Dennett: Well,

00:37:07.110 --> 00:37:21.240 Juliette Dennett: It's a, it's a very British thing, isn't it, to have a nice afternoon tea and that was one of the organizations were doing dropping off afternoon tea so cakes sandwiches and tea and things on the doorstep. I thought that was a great idea.

00:37:22.770 --> 00:37:35.760 Graham Dobbin: I'm so that's the good thing. That's the kind of things that we're seeing that are beginning to work and we, you know, it is generally accepted it has been for a long time that way to get people engaged is is by doing that. Give them recognition.

00:37:36.060 --> 00:37:38.850 Graham Dobbin: I'm give them something to actually work towards

00:37:40.590 --> 00:37:50.850 Graham Dobbin: What kind of things have you seen that have gone wrong. Now I don't expect it in there, mention any names, but get that, but what kind of examples of things would be, have you seen that kind of haven't worked

00:37:52.260 --> 00:38:00.780 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, I think it surprised me early on in the first of the first lockdown. And how many people said they felt

00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:06.720 Juliette Dennett: Embarrassed AND UNDER PRESSURE, about the fact that, for example, their kids had to be at home with them.

00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:15.450 Juliette Dennett: And that children might make appearances on zoom calls and so on and Bella, they will be judged by their organizations around that.

00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:23.430 Juliette Dennett: So at, you know, I thought that was that was quite surprising and a little bit disappointing that some people would have that

00:38:23.940 --> 00:38:34.560 Juliette Dennett: That outlook that that was a very. That was the reality for so many working parents. And so that was something I think there has been

00:38:35.130 --> 00:38:47.790 Juliette Dennett: There have been examples of senior leadership attitude towards working from home, almost, you know, let's get over this as quickly as you can and get people back to work and it's been refreshing to see how many people actually have

00:38:48.480 --> 00:39:04.830 Juliette Dennett: have embraced it and come out publicly and said, You know, I was dead against this and but actually now I can see in some organizations, we now have actually measured the productivity and can vouch for the fact that there is a higher level of productivity from people working at home.

00:39:05.910 --> 00:39:14.640 Graham Dobbin: Um, yeah, that was one of the challenges that I've kind of heard is that people don't know that the demarcation lines so

00:39:15.870 --> 00:39:23.100 Graham Dobbin: When you switch off when you switch to a laptop or when you know because you might be in the same room as you live in, especially in a city like New York

00:39:23.610 --> 00:39:36.180 Graham Dobbin: You know spaces spaces are pretty new. We're all in much smaller spaces than then then we would generally be elsewhere. So being able to just kind of switch off and deal with that is, is can be potentially a big issue.

00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:50.700 Graham Dobbin: Think we become more tolerant, then I just aware that you say you know we've got kids in the background. I've got the dogs barking, you know, somebody is making dinner. I've heard on a we're on important meeting think more and more tolerant.

00:39:51.750 --> 00:40:03.060 Juliette Dennett: And yes, I do. And I think that was probably happening, to some extent, even before the pandemic and the pandemic is accentuated it but you know if I think back to when I was

00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:17.430 Juliette Dennett: I don't know, sort of early on in my career as a single mom with a child at home and having to arrange childcare and, you know, I would never dream of inconveniencing my employer.

00:40:18.150 --> 00:40:27.600 Juliette Dennett: With any of that was my responsibility to deal with that. And then I think today the lengths. We go to to be family friendly in our approach and

00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:35.880 Juliette Dennett: For certain where we are a lot more tolerant and when I think it's the recognition that people give up their best if

00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:49.860 Juliette Dennett: When they feel that their employer cares about the whole of them and not just a bit of them that they bring to work. So, so yes, there has been a shift and the the pandemic has, by necessity brought it into the limelight.

00:40:50.640 --> 00:40:51.540 Essentially

00:40:53.010 --> 00:40:58.140 Graham Dobbin: We discussed caution a couple of weeks. So I wonder if it makes us even more authentic that we begin to because

00:40:59.160 --> 00:41:07.170 Graham Dobbin: We need to respect, where we go, no, we're we're being invited into people's homes for a meeting and I can tell you the last time I wore a suit.

00:41:07.620 --> 00:41:21.000 Graham Dobbin: I just couldn't tell you this good people don't do that. No good. There's water, we're more casual, you know, we can still be professional, but we're more casually, we were on when we're when we're fixing customers. So there's that. There's a whole shift there.

00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:33.090 Juliette Dennett: Yes. And maybe that calls for our will call for at some point and a new set of, you know what, what the professional standards mean

00:41:33.150 --> 00:41:47.550 Juliette Dennett: Now because they've shifted, for sure. I mean, some of the things that I've become attuned to I realized that the idea of people eating while they're on the screen in front of me. I really, I really don't like. And I don't know if that's me personally.

00:41:49.260 --> 00:42:03.060 Juliette Dennett: I'm inclined to make that one of the rules if we ever get around to making rules around these things and and also I think I've become pretty good at recognizing when people are private chatting on a zoom call you know when you've got

00:42:04.230 --> 00:42:10.740 Juliette Dennett: A grid of faces in front of you and you can see the two that the facial expressions, mean that they're called

00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:25.950 Juliette Dennett: They're communicating between themselves and so on. So yeah, it's a very different world that we've become used to and it shifted. And in many ways, I think it's for the best, but as with everything they will need to be

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:33.540 Juliette Dennett: Checks and measures to make sure that we're being as effective and efficient in the way that we work now.

00:42:34.200 --> 00:42:45.990 Graham Dobbin: Oh yeah, it's I keep on coming back to the the video that was about two or three years ago on the BBC where someone was being interviewed about STEM subjects but Korea.

00:42:46.350 --> 00:42:52.020 Graham Dobbin: The kids running and his wife jumps in. She's crawling along the floor, trying to avoid being on camera.

00:42:52.830 --> 00:43:10.020 Graham Dobbin: And she feels dramatically dragging the kids. So this has been viewed 50 million times on YouTube and fight they had to have an interview with with with the guy and his family and how much a laugh and it, it went viral know this is almost every meeting.

00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:11.640 Graham Dobbin: It just, you know, they're just something

00:43:11.640 --> 00:43:18.480 Graham Dobbin: Happens and we were all shrug off, it feels that authenticity is is something we don't want to lose.

00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:20.190 Juliette Dennett: Absolutely, yeah.

00:43:20.700 --> 00:43:32.670 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, sure. And as you said the tolerance as well. The fact that we you know we meet people where they are and that's sending to be in their homes. Very often so um yeah i think that that shift people's

00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:37.890 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, people's expectations. Okay.

00:43:38.130 --> 00:43:39.690 Graham Dobbin: We're just going to go into a final break

00:43:40.710 --> 00:43:47.850 Graham Dobbin: After the break, kind of want to just push a little bit, just the ground running your own business. How do you relax when you're not there.

00:43:48.180 --> 00:44:00.390 Graham Dobbin: And what do you think Justin Juliet's opinion, what are the three absolute must treats for leaders, especially with everything that we're going through now and you're listening to the main behind leadership.

00:44:01.350 --> 00:44:10.380 Graham Dobbin: We're speaking with Juliet data from Dale Carnegie today. My name is Graham Dobbin we're on talk radio dot NYC. I will be right back after these messages.

00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.300 ARE LISTENING TO TALK RADIO AND might see

00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:18.090 In

00:46:33.570 --> 00:46:40.590 Graham Dobbin: So welcome back. I'm Julia we spoke about you being corporate world with IBM and Revlon

00:46:41.850 --> 00:46:43.590 Graham Dobbin: And then that competitive nature.

00:46:45.180 --> 00:46:58.680 Graham Dobbin: Wanting to, you know, wanted to run your own business and taking taking the kind of enforce changes that we've had over the last. Well, are you still in the same path as you thought you would be with the business, is it still kind of going into place that you thought

00:47:00.750 --> 00:47:05.490 Juliette Dennett: Now, if you'd asked me six months ago, it might have been a moral panic stricken respond

00:47:06.540 --> 00:47:25.800 Juliette Dennett: Now, I have one. I never lost hope Holloway through the pandemic. But now, and we are getting back on to pre coated levels getting they're not there yet, but getting there. So in terms of my own personal track.

00:47:26.910 --> 00:47:35.070 Juliette Dennett: Now I'm getting towards the stage of thinking about retirement. That was originally a lot on the cards for next year.

00:47:36.240 --> 00:47:44.280 Juliette Dennett: Which has probably been bumped by at least a year now, so in that sense. And things have moved slightly

00:47:46.200 --> 00:47:53.130 Juliette Dennett: But, but now I'm quite pleased. All told, where, where we are right now. I hope I'm still saying the same thing in three months.

00:47:54.690 --> 00:48:08.700 Graham Dobbin: Okay, so. So thinking back then, if you see that that's the stage of your career, you know, um, what advice would you give a Juliet kicking off her career or or start the journey as an entrepreneur.

00:48:10.890 --> 00:48:12.990 Juliette Dennett: Well, I talked about it. So, I mean, I think.

00:48:14.670 --> 00:48:27.960 Juliette Dennett: I never had a plan and nobody ever helped me with career advice when I when I set off so I probably didn't make the best decisions, early on in my career. Having said that, I wouldn't change for a moment.

00:48:28.740 --> 00:48:41.430 Juliette Dennett: The path that that I've been on where that's like, me too. And so, yeah, it's quite interesting to look back and think how did this all start why

00:48:41.910 --> 00:48:50.790 Juliette Dennett: Why leadership, because I was as a young person I was chronically painfully searing my shy.

00:48:51.450 --> 00:49:00.960 Juliette Dennett: And and I can remember very clearly a time where I thought okay, that's, that's just got to stop. We've got to do something about that because it was

00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:14.250 Juliette Dennett: It was just, yeah, it was just literally painful. So, and I still am that person. I still am that person. I still there are still times when I'd be quite happy to blend into the background.

00:49:14.790 --> 00:49:29.220 Juliette Dennett: And but I suppose I spent a lifetime of working on how to project myself in spite of that. So yeah, I think advice for me. Starting out would be

00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:39.180 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, just to trust myself because that's what I've learned to do over the time, but maybe I needed to trust that earlier on in my career.

00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:46.680 Graham Dobbin: It's interesting. Again, it's interesting. You've touched on something that is discussed regularly here on the show about

00:49:47.430 --> 00:49:57.510 Graham Dobbin: We need to know where we're going. Roughly bit to have such a Richard plan. I wonder if it's a loop is a limitation. So, for example, my example was I probably been living in New York.

00:49:58.110 --> 00:50:09.450 Graham Dobbin: Probably would be working in in in Australia in South Africa from here. There's a whole of the things I may have missed out on if I had this strict plan. So it's getting that balance.

00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:10.830 Graham Dobbin: Yeah, we've

00:50:10.890 --> 00:50:17.820 Graham Dobbin: Got it. Um, what's the biggest risk you've taken them either personally and in business.

00:50:19.830 --> 00:50:33.420 Juliette Dennett: I think probably when I first became a business owner, we did that. I can't quite believe this. Looking back, but right after the crash of 20 of 2008 words. It was right after that.

00:50:34.140 --> 00:50:47.100 Juliette Dennett: And we bought our business. We were already small shareholders and and are in a business and we bought out the other owners, basically, and took on a whole load of debt to do that.

00:50:47.610 --> 00:50:58.230 Juliette Dennett: And and it was just a case of taking one day to time and plowing through that and there were times when we thought we would never see the light at the end of that tunnel of debt.

00:50:58.860 --> 00:51:14.220 Juliette Dennett: And so at the time that it feel like a big risk, probably not. And when I look back now. It just seems like a crazy, crazy risks that we took back then but you know it worked out so

00:51:14.820 --> 00:51:22.980 Graham Dobbin: What keeps you going and then Windows those doubts that did come in is a survival mechanism that kind of kicks in, or was it something more.

00:51:23.850 --> 00:51:31.230 Juliette Dennett: And I definitely think I'm a survivor. I definitely think that. So I think there's been times where I think I'm at my best when we're surviving

00:51:31.650 --> 00:51:37.020 Juliette Dennett: And maybe I need to be a bit better at getting beyond survival. But hey,

00:51:37.380 --> 00:51:49.590 Juliette Dennett: And so there's the certainly an element of that. And I think there's always been that thing, I think, in a small business, there's always more of a family sense you know there isn't a Christmas party when

00:51:50.070 --> 00:51:58.560 Juliette Dennett: I don't look around the room and I think that's a heck of a lot of people's mortgages and how and livelihoods that you're responsible for

00:51:58.980 --> 00:52:07.470 Juliette Dennett: So it's it's doing the right thing, not just by the business that by everybody else you depends on the business as well. That's, that's pretty important to me.

00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:10.020 Graham Dobbin: And who didn't you look up to.

00:52:12.720 --> 00:52:14.490 Juliette Dennett: I'm not sure whether I've had

00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:19.860 Juliette Dennett: Real leadership role models. I love to follow.

00:52:23.040 --> 00:52:42.330 Juliette Dennett: Significant leaders in business, but I'm not sure there's anybody, particularly that would be my role models. I think early on, it was even going way back even teachers have, you know, teachers at school taught me so much inadvertently about how to, you know how to engage

00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:43.440 Graham Dobbin: People and how to get her.

00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:43.800 Best

00:52:44.850 --> 00:52:53.940 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah. And so, you know, right now, I wouldn't say this, this particular name that I would call a somebody that

00:52:55.050 --> 00:52:57.450 Juliette Dennett: That that would look up to, especially

00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:07.500 Graham Dobbin: You talk her up a lot about the, you know, kind of doing the right thing, how it feels. Um, the robbery almost feels like there's an instinctive

00:53:08.670 --> 00:53:12.720 Graham Dobbin: path that you call on music. How much does got influence

00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:17.100 Graham Dobbin: How much is that an influence on you and your decision making.

00:53:18.510 --> 00:53:26.550 Juliette Dennett: Have that by quite a bit. I'm not sure that it should, um, you know, we would probably teach that. So, a lot more

00:53:27.540 --> 00:53:39.420 Juliette Dennett: Process and strategy behind things and but maybe also I've learned to trust my guts and and perhaps I also know

00:53:40.290 --> 00:53:52.980 Juliette Dennett: When not to rely on it. So I mean, a great example would be hiring people you know that's supposed to be a real. No, no, that you know you don't trust your gut, you go with the facts.

00:53:53.400 --> 00:54:05.520 Juliette Dennett: And but I think my guts telling me okay that in, especially in terms of finding people who are the right fit. Not just for the Dale Carnegie business but for our organization as well.

00:54:06.390 --> 00:54:12.000 Graham Dobbin: Do you think more so than maybe going through the assessments and looking at everything kind of practically and coldly.

00:54:12.810 --> 00:54:17.910 Juliette Dennett: Yeah, I mean, I think it's important, obviously, to do those things as well, but the

00:54:19.980 --> 00:54:28.560 Juliette Dennett: There are just some things that you you feel in a connection with somebody as well that perhaps don't always come out through

00:54:29.640 --> 00:54:34.140 Juliette Dennett: Through assessment. So all through somebody is interview technique and so

00:54:35.100 --> 00:54:51.930 Graham Dobbin: Um, we've only got a couple of minutes to go, Julia. This is flowing and I'm really curious on what do you see as the kind of the three top tricks that leaders really need to have these are these are must haves within their within their toolkit with them as a person.

00:54:53.370 --> 00:55:02.580 Juliette Dennett: I think the first one would be an inner conviction, so I can relate to times when I've absolutely doubted myself where I've

00:55:03.060 --> 00:55:10.980 Juliette Dennett: You know wondered whether I should be in the position. I'm in, and so on. But somewhere beneath all of that is an inner conviction of knowing

00:55:11.370 --> 00:55:25.620 Juliette Dennett: Where we're going, and why are we doing it and and and that doesn't waver so i think i think that's important. And then we mentioned the word compassion before it compassion understanding being able to understand the people

00:55:27.450 --> 00:55:44.790 Juliette Dennett: That were working alongside and people were working with. And then the third one will be trust and that's about being able to trust others because we earn trust that way. So, demonstrating our trust and our belief in other people. So trust would be the third

00:55:47.190 --> 00:55:56.010 Graham Dobbin: Three very, very powerful tricks inner, inner conviction being compassionate supposed to ourselves as well as others.

00:55:56.790 --> 00:56:07.890 Graham Dobbin: And being able to trust ourselves as well as others. And the thing that that sometimes what is forgotten and leadership about is how we treat ourselves in not just how we treat other people Juliet Bennett.

00:56:09.180 --> 00:56:20.700 Graham Dobbin: The Managing Director of Dale Carnegie in northern UK and also the president of the International Dale Carnegie franchise Association. Thank you so much for your time.

00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:26.550 Graham Dobbin: That we enjoyed it. Thank you for your insights as well about what's what's happening here globally in your approach that

00:56:27.690 --> 00:56:28.260 Juliette Dennett: Absolute

00:56:28.560 --> 00:56:31.800 Juliette Dennett: absolute pleasure. Great. Thank you so much for having me on your show.

00:56:31.890 --> 00:56:41.190 Graham Dobbin: Know you're more than welcome. Hopefully we'll speak again soon join us again next week on the mind behind leadership. Thank you to some Leibovitz our producer to Rebecca Maxwell.

00:56:42.060 --> 00:56:50.010 Graham Dobbin: For some of the questions in there and Mike messenger for getting that message out there. We'll see you again next Thursday. Thank you. Bye bye.

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