So Now You Know

Thursday, November 12, 2020

2020/11/12 - Equity & Inclusion - What Does It Mean?

[NEW EPISODE] Equity & Inclusion - What Does It Mean?

There is a lot of talk about Equity and Inclusion, Diversity and Implicit Bias- what does it all mean. Join SNYK on Thursday with our guest, Shanell Henry Robinson, at 5pm to learn more and be part of the discussion

 Tune in for this wonderful conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Show Notes

Segment 1: 

Antonia wishes her audience well and urges them to get tested if they celebrated the election results on the street. She then introduces her guest, Shanell Henry Robinson. Shanell is the director of Equity and Inclusion in Connecticut. She has been doing diversity work for 20 years as well as work in higher education and non-profit. She has trained all age groups in diversity. Shanell says, “this conversation never gets old”. Antonia asks Shanell if she saw a change in the conversation about equity and inclusion since the death of George Floyd. She says “I feel white people woke up”. She says she sees an increase in the public’s desire to learn and do research. Shanell hopes that people were listening during the numerous discussions on social media about racism in America. Shanell expresses disappointment in the clear divide shown in the polls in this past 2020 election. 

Segment 2: 

Antonia asks Shanell to talk about the Teaching Institute for Diversity and Social Justice. Her goal with the organization is to bring diversity training into professional and student environments. She says “Before you evaluate curriculum, you have to evaluate yourself”. Antonia asks why private institutions do not have more diversity. Shanell says that the hesitation comes from the fear of having uncomfortable conversations. She says, “Uncomfortable does not mean unsafe”. Shanell defines equity: giving everyone they need to survive, thrive, and succeed. She emphasizes the difference between “equality” and “equity”. Antonia addresses the wealth divide with it comes to equity and inclusion. 

Segment 3: 

Antonia asks Shanell about her opinion on the conversation on the terms “people of color” vs. “black people” Shanell believes these types of terms have various motivations, some uplift and some ostracize. She also emphasizes her belief in “self identification”. Antonia and Shanell talk about the learning curve that is attached to these terms and the Black Lives Matter movement. Antonia asks about Shanell’s experience with teaching young kids on equity and inclusion. Shanell expresses pride in seeing the younger generation be so active in the fight for racial justice. Antonia and Shanell talk about how the news was talking about different parts of the country. They also discuss how the media influences equity and inclusion. 

Segment 4: 

Shanell believes education is the key to moving the country forward. She calls for the importance of having uncomfortable conversations in schools and at home. As for the workforce, Shanell says “policies, programs, and people”. She emphasizes the importance of employers making sure they are hiring people from all backgrounds while also offering programs that help employers and staff to understand equity and inclusion. Antonia asks Shanell how those in higher leadership should prepare to sacrifice power. Shanell says, “there’s letting go [of power] and sharing it”. “If you have privilege I don’t need to recognize that others don’t.” Antonia thanks Shanell for coming onto the show and signs off. 


00:00:37.980 --> 00:00:48.060 Antonia Thompson: afternoon everyone. It's Thursday 5pm you're here with Antonia and so now you know we have had a very eventful week, last time I saw you. We didn't

00:00:48.750 --> 00:00:56.700 Antonia Thompson: Quite have a president a new president elect right there was a lot of drama that's happened since then to now so I hope you are well

00:00:57.390 --> 00:01:09.600 Antonia Thompson: I hope you are safe, as we always say with our social distancing and our mask. I hope you took all those precautions and if you were one of those that was celebrating in the streets. I hope you got tested.

00:01:11.460 --> 00:01:23.040 Antonia Thompson: Please, go get tested, because although people are very joyous and happy. I still was very frightful of all those that were in the community. So we have a lot to talk about this week and I have my friend.

00:01:24.300 --> 00:01:27.450 Antonia Thompson: Chanel, we're gonna let her in here on our camera.

00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:36.720 Antonia Thompson: So it was a very eventful week there was a lot going on. So I thought I would bring my friend hello Chanel, how are you

00:01:37.140 --> 00:01:37.800 Shanell Henry Robinson: Good. Are you

00:01:38.550 --> 00:01:46.110 Antonia Thompson: Good. So, um, welcome to. So now you know a little bit about my show and my listeners is I

00:01:46.710 --> 00:01:55.920 Antonia Thompson: Try to bring on the show, friends and family and anyone that I meet my path that is doing some amazing work and then just to share it on on this platform.

00:01:56.340 --> 00:02:08.160 Antonia Thompson: And just a little background Chanel and I met over the summer, we were on a panel together for the in our local community. And it seems like it was so long ago.

00:02:08.220 --> 00:02:09.300 Shanell Henry Robinson: I know, I know.

00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:19.650 Antonia Thompson: So much has happened since then. Yeah. And I just thought who better to be here today, after this election and all the drama that has been happening.

00:02:20.640 --> 00:02:25.020 Antonia Thompson: Actually since the summer, some of the stuff you know it was popping up over the summer. Now it's really

00:02:25.470 --> 00:02:38.940 Antonia Thompson: Out there because of the election. So, um, let's just get into this because there's so many questions I want to ask you. So let's just start with you and your background. So can you share a little bit with our listeners your work.

00:02:39.960 --> 00:03:02.880 Shanell Henry Robinson: Sure, I am currently the Director of Equity and Inclusion at greens farms Academy in Westport, Connecticut, and we are a Pre K through 12th grade independent school so private school. I've been doing diversity work doing work in the field of diversity, equity, and inclusion for

00:03:04.050 --> 00:03:06.270 Shanell Henry Robinson: date myself out 20 years

00:03:08.160 --> 00:03:22.080 Shanell Henry Robinson: Started off really in higher education working for colleges and universities before coming to the pre K 12 school level and also did some work in nonprofits consulting

00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:39.720 Shanell Henry Robinson: You know, just any way that I can do this type of work have these type of conversations is what my passion is what's most important to me. So whether it's young folks older folks my most memorable training was with AARP

00:03:40.590 --> 00:03:55.800 Shanell Henry Robinson: I think you've heard me tell this story before. So I've trained everyone from the tiniest of the tiny the babies to the most mature person, you can think of the oldest person in that room at the time was 8590 years old.

00:03:56.610 --> 00:03:59.640 Antonia Thompson: So this conversation. It never gets old.

00:03:59.940 --> 00:04:00.630 Shanell Henry Robinson: It never gets

00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:07.530 Antonia Thompson: And I, you know, we kind of do a similar work in. So I just want to get right into this because I feel

00:04:07.860 --> 00:04:17.250 Antonia Thompson: Especially since the last panel that you or your and I were on and then when we were talking about this with a lot of things that were going on in the private school sector and just a lot of

00:04:19.170 --> 00:04:26.910 Antonia Thompson: Equity and Diversity and issues that were going on with kids that are in these environments as you talked about independent schools.

00:04:27.510 --> 00:04:38.880 Antonia Thompson: And so I want to talk a little bit broader because a lot of times these words are being out there equity inclusion diversity. Right, and I think we had talked about everyone has a call to action. I just seems like everybody

00:04:39.990 --> 00:04:49.830 Antonia Thompson: Has a call to action for their business for their school of how they are going to what I feel is wanting to self reflect on stuff that they've been doing all along and

00:04:51.090 --> 00:04:51.480 Antonia Thompson: Right.

00:04:52.680 --> 00:05:06.150 Antonia Thompson: Organizations kind of coming to terms are asking themselves to come to terms with systemic racism and things like that. So I think it's interesting that people like you and I are doing this work of we're kind of that go to person.

00:05:06.810 --> 00:05:10.830 Antonia Thompson: To ask for clarity, have a discussion. And I will say this.

00:05:11.280 --> 00:05:25.530 Antonia Thompson: A lot of times, um, black friends would say, wow, you know, all my white friends are reaching out to me they're asking me, especially after George fluid. How are you doing, and I kind of feel bad, cuz I was like nobody is reaching out to me like no one is checking in on me. Does that mean I

00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:33.390 Antonia Thompson: You know, first affect my friends. So how did you feel like, and let's just take that back to like get from our summer.

00:05:34.350 --> 00:05:44.910 Antonia Thompson: Did you see the conversation, changing the focus on equity inclusion in diversity and what what stuck out to you the most that shocked people

00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:54.480 Antonia Thompson: About like I just feel like a lot of times, people thought, oh, wow, this just happened. How is this happening. And it's like, no, it's kind of been a minute.

00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:58.470 Shanell Henry Robinson: Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly what I was going to say just

00:05:59.820 --> 00:06:09.660 Shanell Henry Robinson: I can't even say the world woke up because you know I always tell folks. Let's be specific. Let's name who it is, or what it is we're talking about. I feel like white people woke up.

00:06:11.550 --> 00:06:27.870 Shanell Henry Robinson: It a mirror was put in front of many people right and the what was seemingly somehow invisible to them or you know they chose not to see suddenly became hyper visible. There was no way to not see to not pay attention.

00:06:29.610 --> 00:06:41.790 Shanell Henry Robinson: As you said you know folks of color, especially black folks were kind of like, welcome to our world. This has been going on for so long. Where have you been, welcome to the conversation, join me at the table.

00:06:44.190 --> 00:06:53.520 Shanell Henry Robinson: What was I guess shocking to me if we, you know, use that word is the number of people, as you say, who reached out

00:06:55.170 --> 00:07:16.620 Shanell Henry Robinson: On the one hand, the ru okays, you know, checking in. But then on the other hand, what can I read what can I do, what resources. Can you give me and you know my visceral reaction always was Google because the same reading list. I'm about to give you is on Google's or someone sent me

00:07:17.640 --> 00:07:31.830 Shanell Henry Robinson: But just the desire for education, for resources to go to. I became the go to for folks to learn more. So a conversation was started in a different way. I think this summer.

00:07:32.910 --> 00:07:39.300 Antonia Thompson: And I think, in my perspective, you know, a lot of my background is in criminal justice and and being a criminal defense attorney and

00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:49.710 Antonia Thompson: In my focus on like juvenile justice. It's probably you know bias in that. So perhaps that's why people didn't reach out to me. See how he's doing because they knew I was going to be like yeah

00:07:51.180 --> 00:07:55.740 Antonia Thompson: You know why it's not that I'd be angry, but it was kind of like, are you serious, that this has been going on.

00:07:55.770 --> 00:07:56.880 Antonia Thompson: For so long.

00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:06.090 Antonia Thompson: Um, so how do you, bro. How did you feel that you you would start approaching that conversation with that person who comes up to you either being naive.

00:08:06.990 --> 00:08:22.200 Antonia Thompson: Not want to being part of reality because I think the other part of it is that, and we've seen this in in in social media in in in I'm in media this like we're supposed to let let it go. Right. We're supposed to

00:08:23.310 --> 00:08:36.120 Antonia Thompson: Take the person's guilt or however they're feeling about it and we're supposed to calm them down. I think it was. This is us. That just did a great show a couple weeks matter if you want to that, where they talk about that, like, this wasn't our burden to lift.

00:08:36.180 --> 00:08:39.120 Antonia Thompson: Right, as opposed to have a conversation

00:08:40.740 --> 00:08:48.420 Antonia Thompson: And I kind of felt that on the panel that we were on it, kind of, you know, like, Yeah, we were probably the correct people to be there, but

00:08:49.590 --> 00:08:55.680 Antonia Thompson: I don't know how willing. People are to hear or listening to what we were saying another

00:08:56.220 --> 00:08:57.270 Shanell Henry Robinson: Thing I

00:08:57.270 --> 00:09:04.710 Shanell Henry Robinson: Feel like now. We were at a pivotal moment you know the is a Malcolm Gladwell talks about the tipping point right that

00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:16.770 Shanell Henry Robinson: George floored seem to be that tipping point, everything that happened. It was the perfect storm, you know, coming. I can't even say coming out of cold did because we're still in it but you know everything that led us up into that moment.

00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:37.980 Shanell Henry Robinson: I think people weren't listening. People were craving information, the number of webinars that I participated in, or that were offered throughout that period around the same or similar topics you know it. People were craving the information

00:09:39.270 --> 00:09:55.170 Shanell Henry Robinson: And I hope. Right. It is my hope and I'm not an optimist, by any means, but it is my hope that people were in fact listening again simply going back to the number of people who reached out to me for resources reading lists, etc.

00:09:55.980 --> 00:10:05.490 Antonia Thompson: And it has it has that maintained. Do you feel like that has kind of plateaued or people still wanting to hear that. And in lieu of what we'll get to this later in the show.

00:10:05.790 --> 00:10:21.300 Antonia Thompson: This whole election that we went through surprised. I mean, not surprising, but you saw how close it was the numbers that were there was a clear indication that yeah people listening, we can have these conversations. But is it, what is it going to take to move that needle.

00:10:22.740 --> 00:10:32.340 Shanell Henry Robinson: And think the needle may have been moved. Obviously not as much as we had hoped or we would like but you know again in my sphere.

00:10:33.270 --> 00:10:43.080 Shanell Henry Robinson: I see the needle has been moved in, you know, the parent community, the educational community, the educators that I'm in contact and communication with

00:10:43.680 --> 00:10:55.710 Shanell Henry Robinson: Folks, looking at diversify the curriculum or teach right anti bias curriculum that sort of thing. So I think those tended to be the audience's that that we reach especially parents of young children.

00:10:56.520 --> 00:11:10.980 Shanell Henry Robinson: seeking ways to have these conversations with their young children, whether they had it before. How did they start and whether they were doing it before. How did they talk to them about the racial violence and unrest that was unfolding right before their very eyes.

00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:24.150 Shanell Henry Robinson: The, the election is is interesting and how close it was, in some ways, not shocking, but in some ways, yes, shocking and disappointing because it did paint a very

00:11:25.260 --> 00:11:31.590 Shanell Henry Robinson: In some ways bleak picture of the racial divide, if you will.

00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:37.890 Shanell Henry Robinson: As we think about diversity, equity, and inclusion and social justice in general but

00:11:39.180 --> 00:11:47.760 Shanell Henry Robinson: It may have plateaued in some ways the requests are a little less but you know life goes on. Everything has gotten underway.

00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:59.070 Shanell Henry Robinson: We are back at school at my school in person and have been since end of August and things are busy so life has has picked up and moved on.

00:12:00.150 --> 00:12:05.100 Antonia Thompson: Do you feel that it may be more agenda. The change is going to come by generation.

00:12:05.550 --> 00:12:15.240 Antonia Thompson: That because we have such young parents and really young adults that that we're doing the protest that we're creating the different platforms that we're having the conversations

00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:27.270 Antonia Thompson: Do you feel that that is where perhaps the needle moves a little bit longer. And then, then the other question is, can we as black folks, especially our, our generation. Can we wait

00:12:30.150 --> 00:12:38.580 Shanell Henry Robinson: Was it a MARTIN LUTHER KING JOHN LEWIS who talked about, you know, not waiting right and how long must we wait. We've been waiting

00:12:39.750 --> 00:12:56.400 Shanell Henry Robinson: But I don't do this work with the expectation that I will see change in my lifetime. Again, I'm not an optimist, but it is that hope that keeps me going that and I see you know the picture on the wall behind you talking about hope.

00:12:57.420 --> 00:13:06.360 Shanell Henry Robinson: But it is that hope that it will be the generations that follow it is that hope that keeps me working and teaching in independent schools.

00:13:07.410 --> 00:13:20.820 Shanell Henry Robinson: predominantly white institutions with low numbers of students who look like me and I always say I am in these places and spaces as much for them as I am for the white students because it is important.

00:13:21.390 --> 00:13:34.740 Shanell Henry Robinson: That they learn to have these conversations as well. And, you know, see folks like me working for change. So don't know which generation, it's going to be, but I do have that hope that that change will come

00:13:35.670 --> 00:13:49.320 Antonia Thompson: And I don't think we can do it alone. Right. So I do think part of the whole conversation and allied ship, right, is that we have to have a more diverse voices at the table. If we're going to be very impactful and doing this work.

00:13:50.640 --> 00:13:51.360 Shanell Henry Robinson: Absolutely.

00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:56.490 Antonia Thompson: Absolutely. So what talk about your institute that you started in, you're a founder of what brought that about,

00:13:56.880 --> 00:14:05.820 Antonia Thompson: Oh, we actually we're going to get when we get ready to take a break and then we'll come back and talk a little bit more about that you are listening to Antonio. So now you know and we'll be right back.

00:16:19.950 --> 00:16:22.830 Antonia Thompson: So Welcome back, we're talking to Chanel Henry

00:16:24.030 --> 00:16:36.180 Antonia Thompson: And before we came to the break, and I wanted to talk a little bit about the Institute for teaching diversity and social justice. How did that come about and what created your passion to to want to do more of that work.

00:16:37.020 --> 00:16:44.970 Shanell Henry Robinson: Sure, um, again, you know, I've been doing this work for a long time, particularly working with educators and

00:16:45.780 --> 00:16:58.140 Shanell Henry Robinson: You know, gaining the skills to bring diversity, equity, and inclusion into their curriculum and the Institute for teaching diversity and social justice was started by myself and

00:16:58.710 --> 00:17:10.650 Shanell Henry Robinson: My friend and colleague in the work. Kathy Joshi who she and I went to grad school together at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, and the social justice education program. So through working and

00:17:11.310 --> 00:17:16.920 Shanell Henry Robinson: You know, doing this work with educators with Kathy really sitting down and think about how can we

00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:27.270 Shanell Henry Robinson: What would it take, what would the skills right how how long, how many days, would it take to share with educators everything that whether you're an independent school educator

00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:36.210 Shanell Henry Robinson: Public School educator, how do you bring anti bias curriculum to your students, how do we create safer schools and more equitable schools for

00:17:36.690 --> 00:17:48.180 Shanell Henry Robinson: For All right, not just students, but for all people. And so we decided to start this institute and really do a deep dive into the work that she and I had been doing for so long and

00:17:48.690 --> 00:17:58.320 Shanell Henry Robinson: We talked about it for some time before we launched the first Institute, one of those, you know, Field of Dreams. If you build it, will they come moments.

00:17:59.730 --> 00:18:10.080 Shanell Henry Robinson: And we were surprised. I was definitely surprised at the number of people who showed up every summer every year really craving this information.

00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:23.850 Shanell Henry Robinson: And, you know, she and I do it, perhaps in a way that's different from some of the other professional development programs that are out there that do this work. So yeah, it is definitely both a passion project for both of us.

00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.110 Antonia Thompson: So where does where what a school start to create that

00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:31.380 Antonia Thompson: Anti bias curriculum.

00:18:32.550 --> 00:18:46.050 Shanell Henry Robinson: Certainly you can, you know, contact us or we have resources on our website as well at WWW dot IDs and everyone's welcome to attend the institute

00:18:46.530 --> 00:18:55.980 Shanell Henry Robinson: I think the first step is really to start evaluate evaluating self before you evaluate your curriculum evaluate yourself. What do you know

00:18:56.610 --> 00:19:04.650 Shanell Henry Robinson: What are your blind spots. How can you find out what they are, you know, doing some additional research reading education on your own.

00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:19.500 Shanell Henry Robinson: Understanding who you are, in terms of your own self identity. So, you know, really starting to interrogate unpack that, before we move into curriculum, what it is that you're teaching how you're teaching it. Who are you teaching about one of the narratives

00:19:20.010 --> 00:19:35.400 Shanell Henry Robinson: You know we telling single stories about groups or individuals. And then, you know, really starting to branch out from there to look at the holistic curriculum and how all of that connects to people, places, policies, etc.

00:19:36.930 --> 00:19:51.090 Antonia Thompson: You know, but I just, I never get the pushback of creating a diverse curriculum and, you know, as we talk about these products, especially here in Connecticut independent schools that are predominantly white

00:19:52.020 --> 00:19:59.910 Antonia Thompson: You would think in education and academia that you would want a diverse curriculum that as an educator, you do want to be inclusive.

00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:10.860 Antonia Thompson: You know, especially in history and English. And so I'm wondering what is that barrier is. Is it, is it the school's themselves that hold the teachers to certain

00:20:12.330 --> 00:20:18.900 Antonia Thompson: In a certain space that tells them. This is what you must teach. We know we see that in public schools. And we know that there's teaching to the test and so forth.

00:20:19.530 --> 00:20:30.720 Antonia Thompson: But I've always wondered why in these independent schools or places where you would think they would have more liberty to have a more inclusive curriculum, but they don't

00:20:32.310 --> 00:20:37.680 Antonia Thompson: What would, what would you say is part of the reason that that doesn't happen as easily.

00:20:38.970 --> 00:20:49.170 Shanell Henry Robinson: In my experience, it's been the fantasy or ideology versus reality right so

00:20:50.130 --> 00:21:14.100 Shanell Henry Robinson: We may say, we want a diverse curriculum or a diverse student body. We want to diversify our faculty and staff, you know this this notion of diversity. However, in reality, the pushback tends to be the rub that happens when things get uncomfortable or when you are talking about, you know,

00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:23.070 Shanell Henry Robinson: equity and social justice or just justice of groups of people. There's the narrative.

00:21:23.940 --> 00:21:29.430 Shanell Henry Robinson: That has been told to us. You mentioned history, right, who's history which version of history.

00:21:29.790 --> 00:21:41.730 Shanell Henry Robinson: Are we teaching you know that I mentioned, Martin Luther King earlier. We've romanticized Martin Luther King so much that when we talk about the real Martin Luther King, if we talk about him. He was a complicated person.

00:21:42.150 --> 00:21:51.930 Shanell Henry Robinson: Is that the history that we're teaching, or are we only teaching the fact that he had a drink. Right, right. So again, once we really start diving into

00:21:52.950 --> 00:22:04.230 Shanell Henry Robinson: All of the the disciplines. I think what happens, and where that pushback. And I always go try to go beneath the surface of the pushback. Where's it coming from. Is it fear.

00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:16.170 Shanell Henry Robinson: Right fear the unknown or when we get uncomfortable uncomfortable does not mean unsafe. Right. But when we get uncomfortable. And now we want to push back. We could also be pushing back against

00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:23.250 Shanell Henry Robinson: You know what we were taught to believe and now my child is learning something different in the curriculum.

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:39.840 Shanell Henry Robinson: Or, you know, our teachers saying something different than what I'm saying at home. So when those rubs happen. I think the pushback happens you know diversity doesn't just mean we open our doors and let everyone in and everything's going to be okay now what do we do after we let everyone

00:22:39.840 --> 00:22:41.190 Shanell Henry Robinson: Else. Right.

00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:45.720 Antonia Thompson: So let's, let's talk about that. And in some of these definitions.

00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:56.340 Antonia Thompson: Because, like I was saying, show you know those were the bus. These are the buzzwords equity inclusion diversity, you know, everyone's got it in their statements, everyone is saying.

00:22:56.760 --> 00:23:04.290 Antonia Thompson: So, in the simplest terms, if you were to explain it as an expert. Let's talk about equity, what, what are we talking about when we say equity.

00:23:05.370 --> 00:23:17.490 Shanell Henry Robinson: Equity is giving everyone what they need to be successful, right, or what they need to survive. What they need to access the

00:23:18.120 --> 00:23:28.410 Shanell Henry Robinson: Same level of opportunity that others have access to, and it may come easier right to that person or that group than it does to another.

00:23:29.310 --> 00:23:41.100 Shanell Henry Robinson: You know, when I think of of equity versus equality, equality is giving everyone the same thing. Well, we have to recognize that not every person or not a regroup needs the same thing.

00:23:42.060 --> 00:23:51.420 Shanell Henry Robinson: Some people may need something different or in order to survive or have the same level of access to opportunity that you have we explain it to

00:23:52.170 --> 00:24:02.460 Shanell Henry Robinson: kids in the classroom in terms of, you know, someone injures themselves and you give everyone a band aid. Well, if I broke my leg was a band aid going to do

00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:11.340 Shanell Henry Robinson: For me right Johnny gotta cut on your finger I broke my leg giving me and Johnny a band aid is that's the quality. We both got the same thing.

00:24:11.790 --> 00:24:18.030 Shanell Henry Robinson: But I might need more than the band aid and giving Johnny a cast for cut is not going to help Johnny either

00:24:18.510 --> 00:24:27.810 Shanell Henry Robinson: Because that's not what they need, right. So, you know, we try and talk about that difference between equality and equity and then justice is fairness.

00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:37.710 Shanell Henry Robinson: Right, how we thinking about what is fair and just. I talked about diversity is being a given even an independent schools we can you know

00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:47.520 Shanell Henry Robinson: Not be satisfied with the amount of diversity that we have, but diversity does exist inclusion is what do we do after everyone gets there.

00:24:48.390 --> 00:25:02.790 Shanell Henry Robinson: Right, the sense of belonging. Do I feel like I belong in this institution. Do I feel like I belong to the table. I've been invited for name is talks about being invited to the dance. Right, right, you've invited me, but have you included me, I'm here.

00:25:04.470 --> 00:25:11.130 Shanell Henry Robinson: So, you know, thinking about terminology and the difference between diversity, equity inclusion and justice.

00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:26.130 Antonia Thompson: I don't know if you you feel this but I feel sometimes here where we live in lower Fairfield County, which is it's bubble in itself. Right. I always say, you know, nowhere else. Is it like here in our community and, you know, and it's

00:25:27.330 --> 00:25:30.510 Antonia Thompson: And I think a lot of times we talked about equity and inclusion.

00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:39.060 Antonia Thompson: That piece of wealth comes in and people just want to stop it. They're like, Oh, I get it. You don't live in this multimillion dollar neighborhood.

00:25:39.390 --> 00:25:51.810 Antonia Thompson: And that's the equity, like, Oh you're from here, and instead of looking like well you could be that multi millionaire and you could still sit next to this other child and they still like you were just explaining have different needs.

00:25:51.990 --> 00:26:01.860 Antonia Thompson: Absolutely. That to me is the frustration in doing the work in this area because people are looking through that lens of equality and color.

00:26:03.390 --> 00:26:09.780 Antonia Thompson: And meeting people where they're actually just looking at that economic structure because now I think with this whole election.

00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:16.260 Antonia Thompson: Now that whole piece comes in. Right. We had a president who I don't even know if he could define any of those words.

00:26:16.710 --> 00:26:27.600 Antonia Thompson: In fact, he wasn't right. The last thing that I think he didn't. He had the executive order, where he banned in the federal system any conversation or training of equity inclusion diversity.

00:26:28.620 --> 00:26:31.440 Antonia Thompson: And to me, that was like a clear sign

00:26:32.580 --> 00:26:33.540 Antonia Thompson: Even worse than

00:26:33.780 --> 00:26:44.520 Antonia Thompson: People who are like, Oh, I don't see color that was to me was, um, yeah, I just felt like that was something that that people could easily just be dismissive of

00:26:45.150 --> 00:26:51.990 Shanell Henry Robinson: And it comes back to, you know, when I mentioned earlier about the rub. When things get uncomfortable or things

00:26:52.290 --> 00:27:02.880 Shanell Henry Robinson: Speak against the narrative that you've learned growing up and it's also tied to our individual identity, whether identity as American or identity as

00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:11.760 Shanell Henry Robinson: A person of color or ethnic person, you know, when I think about his statements about, you know, DEI work being anti American

00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:21.480 Shanell Henry Robinson: And when we talk about history if we're teaching the hard history of the United States and the True History of the United States.

00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:36.870 Shanell Henry Robinson: It's not all you know how we want to West and manifest destiny. There's a lot of oppression. There's a lot of systemic. Everyone's talking now about systemic racism. This has existed way before George Floyd and police brutality, or, you know, violence.

00:27:37.410 --> 00:27:49.680 Shanell Henry Robinson: This country has a history of that. And as you start to peel back those layers and look at systemic oppression of various groups, it gets uncomfortable. It gets messy. It gets painful.

00:27:50.460 --> 00:27:58.260 Shanell Henry Robinson: Yet it's not necessarily speaking out against the country, but it gives us a different perspective.

00:27:58.860 --> 00:28:15.420 Shanell Henry Robinson: Of our country and how it was founded and we can talk about who it was founded for right and so that to some that kind of conversation to some may feel. In fact, you know, anti American to use those words or

00:28:16.620 --> 00:28:32.370 Shanell Henry Robinson: Again coming back to what what are you telling my child. Right. What do you, what do you telling us, and then the guilt right he talked about in his executive order folks crying and these trainings and feeling guilt in we have to push through that we have to push through that.

00:28:32.790 --> 00:28:34.680 Antonia Thompson: Thank you. You're the kinder, gentler

00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:40.620 Antonia Thompson: Person I just said I look, I do hear that right as black folks.

00:28:41.070 --> 00:28:51.060 Antonia Thompson: We see it and we hear like some people don't hear it but we as black people and people of color when we see those conversation, it hits us like Are you for real like

00:28:51.330 --> 00:29:05.790 Antonia Thompson: Did you not read about redlining, do you not understand how some of our neighbors like there's so many parts of American history that you can't get around like it just happened in you. Look, you can look at the data.

00:29:06.840 --> 00:29:14.430 Antonia Thompson: You can look at the history and it's it's there. You can't get around it. So I think it's selective memory that a lot of people want to have

00:29:14.820 --> 00:29:24.900 Antonia Thompson: And I think what you just kind of mentioned this. What I also found find frustrating is, you know, parents, our generation right our age who are ready to say, Get over it.

00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:36.750 Antonia Thompson: It's over. It's done. Why are you explaining this to my child. Why does my kid have to understand this. That to me again is something that our president has just created that platform.

00:29:37.290 --> 00:29:45.540 Antonia Thompson: To be dismissive of a lot of the work that we're doing. So I want to talk a little bit about that because I do I sit down. I'm like, What part of history.

00:29:46.710 --> 00:29:58.020 Antonia Thompson: I get the history that you didn't learn in school, because that's who they are and what you're saying. As far as racing doesn't exist systemic racism, isn't there. It's like, oh, is but but it is

00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:08.460 Antonia Thompson: So we're gonna take another quick break. We're going to come back and talk about that, about the reality and the perception of doing the work you're listening to. Now, you know, we'll be right back.

00:32:31.560 --> 00:32:32.190 Antonia Thompson: Welcome back.

00:32:33.780 --> 00:32:35.490 Antonia Thompson: So I'm going to start asking you.

00:32:35.970 --> 00:32:45.630 Antonia Thompson: You know, I was waiting for you to get it because I have like my personal questions I want to ask you. So what is your opinion about this whole change in the conversation from people of color.

00:32:47.130 --> 00:32:56.760 Antonia Thompson: And I want to hear your perspective of how you feel about the term people of color and should we continue to use that term.

00:32:58.260 --> 00:33:00.630 Shanell Henry Robinson: As opposed to changing it to what

00:33:00.690 --> 00:33:07.920 Antonia Thompson: Black people like like I like just said, black people a Latina everyone

00:33:08.970 --> 00:33:11.640 Antonia Thompson: So before I i want to get your opinion about it.

00:33:12.870 --> 00:33:21.810 Shanell Henry Robinson: So to my understanding, there's no universal change or move to this and I always tell people, it is a

00:33:23.010 --> 00:33:30.240 Shanell Henry Robinson: Personal preference right how individuals self identify I'm big on self identification, I

00:33:30.540 --> 00:33:38.400 Shanell Henry Robinson: Don't believe we have enough opportunities in our daily lives and lived experiences to identify ourselves for ourselves.

00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:51.150 Shanell Henry Robinson: So, you know, we can debate whether it is Black or African American, right, or lack or person of color and who, who is a person of color. I think all these terms have been

00:33:51.930 --> 00:34:04.260 Shanell Henry Robinson: On one hand created to unify. On the other hand, not everyone buys into it. And so I'm not a, you know, surprised that people are confused. Want to call people anymore.

00:34:04.950 --> 00:34:08.460 Antonia Thompson: And I sometimes I feel like it is an easy out right

00:34:08.700 --> 00:34:09.180 Antonia Thompson: Especially if you

00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:09.870 Shanell Henry Robinson: Have color.

00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:10.260 Shanell Henry Robinson: Color

00:34:10.530 --> 00:34:22.830 Antonia Thompson: I if you're not a person of color. It's very easy to put everyone under that umbrella of, you know, if you're talking about diversity and we're talking about oh person of color, but to me, I'm a black woman.

00:34:23.970 --> 00:34:27.960 Antonia Thompson: Right, like me talking about me and she's not a person. She is a black woman.

00:34:29.310 --> 00:34:36.720 Antonia Thompson: And I think it's interesting. Now that we've had this this culture conversation has been going on and George Floyd

00:34:37.110 --> 00:34:45.060 Antonia Thompson: We want to identify it. Right. We want to identify as Black Lives Matter because this is happening to the black community.

00:34:45.570 --> 00:34:49.950 Antonia Thompson: Based on the history that you're wanting for but the history that has happened to us.

00:34:50.520 --> 00:35:03.330 Antonia Thompson: Our lives matter. And I think that that sometimes I've had these conversations where people where they just want to say, Wow, all lives matter. Well, people of color lives map. It's Yep, yep. They do. But for this.

00:35:05.040 --> 00:35:06.060 Shanell Henry Robinson: Yes, and

00:35:08.100 --> 00:35:15.120 Antonia Thompson: Um, so I know that there's this this conversation of whether or not to use that or. So I do think it is important to us because

00:35:15.510 --> 00:35:30.900 Antonia Thompson: We've it's been around forever, but I've never thought of myself or used it as, oh, I'm a person who has always been a black like and just like just like you said. Some people will identify as and I was trying to remember the other day when we started using African right

00:35:31.260 --> 00:35:37.740 Shanell Henry Robinson: Do you know when to stop that American I believe came from the 70s or 80s, or so it was

00:35:39.030 --> 00:35:56.130 Shanell Henry Robinson: It's coined to Jesse Jackson during a political movement as a way to politicize and and you know garner folks of color, if you will, but again it when we think about terminology, the shoe one size does not fit all.

00:35:57.390 --> 00:36:10.260 Shanell Henry Robinson: And and in some ways it is an umbrella term that all of these races, ethnicities cultures get lumped into and and not everyone agrees with that. So that's a great question. Kind of like, you know,

00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:21.900 Shanell Henry Robinson: Who created this who decided that I was now a person of color right and i giggle at times when people slip up and say color people

00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:40.590 Shanell Henry Robinson: Because people are still confused person of color. Color people right so we know that colored people is an outdated term, but I don't vilify the folks who unconsciously slip into that language because they've misconstrued or mispronounced person of color, or people of color.

00:36:42.030 --> 00:36:52.800 Shanell Henry Robinson: But, you know, again, I tend to go with how the individual identifies. And so in my conversation with you and hearing you say you identify as black. I wouldn't necessarily call you a person of color.

00:36:53.100 --> 00:36:59.250 Shanell Henry Robinson: Because I know you don't necessarily buy into that term you prefer to be called a black person or a black woman or, you know, just

00:36:59.790 --> 00:37:12.870 Shanell Henry Robinson: Staying away from this this lumping even the term Asian or Latinx right or black. There's so many people under that umbrella that we're talking about. And yet we all get lumped into that one box we checked.

00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:13.620 Shanell Henry Robinson: It. I mean,

00:37:14.070 --> 00:37:16.650 Antonia Thompson: I have to go learn all the different

00:37:18.180 --> 00:37:23.790 Antonia Thompson: The different Latinx and Latina I had, I did. I'll be honest, I had to go learn it that

00:37:25.620 --> 00:37:35.010 Antonia Thompson: You now have to talk about their differently. So, so it is a learning curve. But I think what really brought it to light is when we started using BLM right

00:37:35.610 --> 00:37:46.710 Antonia Thompson: Talking about Black Lives Matter and what I thought was just amazing. Was this visceral effect on people that they just couldn't say

00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:53.490 Antonia Thompson: They just could not say black lives matter and to me it all just goes back that you're talking about. We're validating black men.

00:37:53.970 --> 00:38:06.930 Antonia Thompson: And people just didn't want to do that right they just were not going to get going to do that. And so I always think it's an interesting perspective of people of like, well, why, why couldn't you say that, like we get that all lives matter.

00:38:08.430 --> 00:38:14.730 Antonia Thompson: So do you think of the conversations that you've been having a trainings. The you've been doing, especially with kids because I don't think

00:38:16.020 --> 00:38:20.940 Antonia Thompson: In the ages were talking to, like, you know, K through 12 and in that environment, the kids get it.

00:38:21.870 --> 00:38:28.920 Antonia Thompson: I feel like the children, whether it's the five year old kindergartener or it's the left like they get it.

00:38:29.580 --> 00:38:42.480 Antonia Thompson: And I'm just wondering how we manage that with society and what's going on in this world and in What platforms are there for the kids like I feel like our generation was stressed out.

00:38:42.930 --> 00:38:44.100 Antonia Thompson: And we kind of going with it.

00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:52.170 Antonia Thompson: This generations, like forget this. We gotta move on and we got to do it this way, but sometimes I see parents kind of pushing

00:38:52.920 --> 00:39:04.500 Antonia Thompson: bringing their kids back in and it's like, do this just not gonna work. I feel, but you you're more in the schools and seeing the vibe of the different kids do you see that tension amongst young students

00:39:05.670 --> 00:39:20.580 Shanell Henry Robinson: To some degree, it is summer I was actually pleasantly surprised at the number of students. I saw out there you know on the front lines at the protest rallies the marches participating writing signs just active

00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:32.490 Shanell Henry Robinson: And, you know, pushing back to the schools to also be active and step up and have a voice. It's a level of activism from students that I have not seen in quite some time.

00:39:33.150 --> 00:39:42.960 Shanell Henry Robinson: Especially at this level, I saw it, you know, the undergraduate level and the colleges and universities at one time, but working in the K 12 space.

00:39:43.410 --> 00:39:55.290 Shanell Henry Robinson: Particularly in independent schools with this culture of niceness and we don't make waves and we don't you know sit in the administration building. Although now they do some students. Some schools certainly do.

00:39:56.430 --> 00:40:04.320 Shanell Henry Robinson: You know, it was heartening to actually see particularly this summer, the number of students who felt a call to action.

00:40:06.540 --> 00:40:07.950 Antonia Thompson: But then what about their parents.

00:40:09.060 --> 00:40:19.260 Shanell Henry Robinson: To some degree, parents supported them. I think, again, it comes back to like you mentioned, just their level of understanding. It's a different generation.

00:40:19.890 --> 00:40:27.750 Shanell Henry Robinson: And, you know, certainly parents have their own view of race relations and things of that sort, but also speaking as a parent myself.

00:40:28.620 --> 00:40:34.920 Shanell Henry Robinson: I know I can speak from a place of fear, my children were out there. My first day and it's during covert this summer. Right, so I my first things like

00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:52.950 Shanell Henry Robinson: I want you to be safe. Right. I needed to wear masks. You're talking about being in a crowd, full of folks. So a lot of my anxiety stemmed from fear and I imagine those parents have, you know, children may have had a sense of fear that they did or didn't articulate as well.

00:40:54.300 --> 00:41:01.500 Antonia Thompson: So what do you think, and I'm sure you are you, I'm sure you're watching that election. What do you think was going on. And did you

00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:07.740 Antonia Thompson: I was always wondering what was going on with the commentators that we're talking about, because there was a big difference between Fox.

00:41:08.070 --> 00:41:18.540 Antonia Thompson: And what was happening on CNN. But then there was just also I felt this this narrative that was coming out of how they were talking about different parts of the country and people right

00:41:18.780 --> 00:41:19.920 Antonia Thompson: Philadelphia was definitely

00:41:20.040 --> 00:41:31.350 Antonia Thompson: It was the black. It was a black community and the language that was being used around that. And then we looked and looking at different other other parts of the country, it wasn't so obvious or

00:41:31.410 --> 00:41:33.150 Antonia Thompson: Evidence, but the numbers were there.

00:41:33.150 --> 00:41:52.620 Antonia Thompson: Like it was clear that in across this country. We do have some very conservative conservative folks. Um, so what did you take on that. Like, what was your take when you when you look through your lens of equity and inclusion. What role does the media play in defining those roles for us.

00:41:53.700 --> 00:42:08.250 Shanell Henry Robinson: Oh, the media is a big influencer, not just in diversity and inclusion. But in general, right, it, it, in some ways, defines and sets culture in some ways it mirrors back to us what our culture is

00:42:09.060 --> 00:42:14.640 Shanell Henry Robinson: You know, it's kind of what came first chicken or the egg who who creates or dictates

00:42:15.540 --> 00:42:25.620 Shanell Henry Robinson: who we are as a society. So as I watch and listen. I actually chuckled during the election because I realized or during the commentary

00:42:25.860 --> 00:42:33.780 Shanell Henry Robinson: Of the election because I realized, like you said, if you change the channel the narrative changes. So what is truth anymore.

00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:38.730 Shanell Henry Robinson: Right, what what is truth, whose perspective, are we listening to

00:42:39.570 --> 00:42:50.130 Shanell Henry Robinson: And that's how I teach my students and getting them to really understand and look through media messages and find the narrative, find a perspective make meaning of what they're hearing

00:42:50.550 --> 00:43:03.240 Shanell Henry Robinson: All perspectives right all sides, if you will, but certainly I think just how everything played out that evening, and even still today it is

00:43:04.140 --> 00:43:27.810 Shanell Henry Robinson: Disappointing, I think, is the word that I'm feeling or the feeling that I'm feeling that it does. In some ways, reflect, not just conservative ism or economics or what have you, but it does reflect a very polarizing view of race relations in this country of diversity, equity, and inclusion.

00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:35.130 Shanell Henry Robinson: I had a conversation recently with a friend. When we were just, you know, kind of thinking about what were people voting for.

00:43:36.210 --> 00:43:41.790 Shanell Henry Robinson: What will we, what are the values. What, what are people voting for.

00:43:43.200 --> 00:43:48.570 Shanell Henry Robinson: And then what is the reciprocal effect of that.

00:43:49.770 --> 00:43:54.330 Antonia Thompson: Yeah, and I think, you know, I find it. I kind of look at it this way.

00:43:54.840 --> 00:44:03.180 Antonia Thompson: Majority of people were looking at the president and being okay he's just gonna go like he just is not presidential and he's just a knucklehead. So he's got to go.

00:44:03.630 --> 00:44:16.110 Antonia Thompson: But they still were like, yeah, we're gonna keep those other guys those other people still in their spot, knowing that they weren't too far from him. They just probably maybe knew how to articulate things better.

00:44:16.590 --> 00:44:24.150 Antonia Thompson: I knew not to put their business in the streets, you know, we're probably more effective in passing legislation and doing other stuff.

00:44:24.750 --> 00:44:37.920 Antonia Thompson: But everyone was pretty much like yeah president. Gotta go. Um, so I thought that was interesting to see that that that play out. And we're going to get ready to take our last BREAK, AND THEN WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK SO YOU LISTENING TO Antonia so now

00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:38.280 Shanell Henry Robinson: You know,

00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:01.350 Antonia Thompson: So welcome back. We're listening to Antonia and so now you know

00:47:02.190 --> 00:47:11.910 Antonia Thompson: So Chanel, what do you see is the work that needs to be done in this in equity inclusion and diversity in this space like as we started the show.

00:47:12.180 --> 00:47:27.750 Antonia Thompson: These this has always been here. This has been a narrative that we have been talking about for several years. This work has has been getting done. So what do you think is really crucial as we look at the next year or two in this work.

00:47:29.490 --> 00:47:36.660 Shanell Henry Robinson: I feel like what is necessary and you know not to sound cliche or obvious but

00:47:37.470 --> 00:47:50.280 Shanell Henry Robinson: It has to be education. And I don't just mean training right folks need to open up walls need to come down folks need to be willing to be uncomfortable to get messy and just have the dialogue.

00:47:50.940 --> 00:48:03.090 Shanell Henry Robinson: I hear people mention all the time about, you know, being afraid to ask questions, afraid to, you know, open their mouths, make a statement because they're going to be labeled

00:48:03.450 --> 00:48:16.500 Shanell Henry Robinson: Right conservative has become a label. We certainly know racist is a label even, you know, liberal is a label. But how do you really communicate with someone across the aisle.

00:48:18.030 --> 00:48:35.370 Shanell Henry Robinson: Communicate through and across difference and we mentioned this earlier when we were talking about curriculum, but being willing to lean into those conversations when the narrative changes right more than just a single story that we grew up learning or knowing or believing

00:48:36.570 --> 00:48:43.410 Shanell Henry Robinson: Some of that rope happens based on identity based on belief based on ideology, but how do we

00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:53.430 Shanell Henry Robinson: Not lose our humanity in that right so i can disagree with you. I can have learned something other than what you learn and how you learned it.

00:48:53.970 --> 00:49:09.990 Shanell Henry Robinson: I can still at the end of it, believe what I believe. But how do I not you know vilify you vilify the individual in this capsule culture cancel the individual and you know that that bias not become bigotry.

00:49:11.700 --> 00:49:18.390 Antonia Thompson: How do you think the work needs to get done in the workplace, because I do, I do agree with you. I think in the educational world.

00:49:18.990 --> 00:49:25.770 Antonia Thompson: That needle will move a lot quicker, and I think this generation as as we're teaching our kids in our staff and we're changing curriculum.

00:49:26.130 --> 00:49:33.930 Antonia Thompson: That that that change will be there sooner than what I think will come in the workplace. So what do you think the conversation.

00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:39.960 Antonia Thompson: And hopefully we'll get rid of, you know, his band in the federal system not teaching Diversity and Equity

00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:50.970 Antonia Thompson: In federal places. But what do you think needs to happen in the work for force because I do think a lot of companies associate, you know, I do think

00:49:51.570 --> 00:50:01.380 Antonia Thompson: A lot of them that have made statements that have come out we you know we saw every major corporation came out about how they're going to do the work and we know

00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:13.950 Antonia Thompson: Usually, I should say. Usually, but a friend of action for a very long time was the diversity right was the way or the mechanism that companies were wholly themselves to the standard of being diversified

00:50:14.520 --> 00:50:23.130 Antonia Thompson: What do you feel is now needed in the employment sector to make sure that the equity, the inclusion and diversity is happening.

00:50:24.180 --> 00:50:35.370 Shanell Henry Robinson: Policies programs and people right everything you just need even talking about affirmative action we need education or re education on the purpose behind affirmative action.

00:50:35.910 --> 00:50:44.430 Shanell Henry Robinson: Right. And again, going back to diversity. OK. So now you've hired all these people and you just plop them organization. And now what now what right so

00:50:45.120 --> 00:50:53.490 Shanell Henry Robinson: everything I said about it wasn't just about the educational space it totally you know is, is important and imperative for the, for the work of place as well.

00:50:54.480 --> 00:51:05.040 Shanell Henry Robinson: Be at training be at education be understanding, be it, you know, looking at our hiring and and making sure we are hiring a diverse staff and workforce. But what are we doing to understand

00:51:05.490 --> 00:51:15.000 Shanell Henry Robinson: The individuals that we are now inviting into the corporation. Who are we as a corporation. The day all of those statements came out again the

00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:27.540 Shanell Henry Robinson: snarky side of me was like, you know, so you do this today. You do this. Now, where were you before. Why didn't you say this before. Now, what has changed. What has changed. Why now.

00:51:28.200 --> 00:51:35.010 Shanell Henry Robinson: Okay, we can point to George Floyd and everyone waking up and saying, Oh my gosh, we need to change and be better. I can get behind that.

00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:44.010 Shanell Henry Robinson: And so now it's November 12 and where are we with those statements, how much progress have we made do we write them and forget them back in the summer.

00:51:44.250 --> 00:51:57.510 Shanell Henry Robinson: Or are we still working to be that, you know, equitable inclusive organization that we said we were going to be on that. What was it blackout Tuesday when everyone blacked out their screens on social media and all these statements came out.

00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:09.870 Shanell Henry Robinson: So if we are a conscious organization. We are working towards all of that. It's not just about product right but it's about people and policies and programs.

00:52:11.100 --> 00:52:16.650 Antonia Thompson: Yeah, and I think, you know, there's always that there was a conversation that was coming out about

00:52:17.520 --> 00:52:39.300 Antonia Thompson: Looking at leadership in these big companies in even with leadership in other companies like are those that are at the top willing to let power go right because that I think is part of the inclusion is knowing that you need to diversify, those that are at the top to allow

00:52:40.500 --> 00:52:41.130 Antonia Thompson: Those

00:52:42.540 --> 00:52:49.980 Antonia Thompson: Groups of people that have never been there. So to me, what would that take as far as that that higher leadership.

00:52:52.170 --> 00:53:05.070 Antonia Thompson: And I guess I think you'll say it comes to the person right the person that's doing the hiring, but I also wanted. I don't know. I think it. Well, I'll let you answer that because me Debbie Downer will be like, it's not gonna happen.

00:53:06.570 --> 00:53:08.310 Antonia Thompson: They're going to hire some people to do this.

00:53:09.030 --> 00:53:13.260 Antonia Thompson: But they're not they're not going to let that go. That power go

00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:25.830 Shanell Henry Robinson: What is letting it go within they're sharing it right. It's not just about letting it go. But how do we share access to the opportunity. What pants to leadership, are we creating

00:53:26.670 --> 00:53:40.140 Shanell Henry Robinson: Are we hiring the same the same people. We always hard to they all look the same. They all coming from the same places do we all have to be golfing at the same golf course to get the access to the internship, right, or are we really looking at

00:53:42.150 --> 00:53:48.600 Shanell Henry Robinson: All of the things that we're doing to see how different groups of people actually have access to the top.

00:53:49.230 --> 00:54:02.130 Shanell Henry Robinson: Part of it could mean yes maybe letting it go, it's time for me to step back, it's time for me to step down, it's time for me to allow someone else to join me right at the top, but another part of it could be looking at what, how did I get here.

00:54:02.910 --> 00:54:13.350 Shanell Henry Robinson: What what path. Did I take who did I know or you know it's not just about working hard. Well, I worked hard to get here I earned it. I hear that a lot. And I always say yes and

00:54:14.010 --> 00:54:25.980 Shanell Henry Robinson: Yes. And we're not taking that away from you right when we're not trying to take that away from you. I just want people to recognize that there are other people, they probably don't even see

00:54:27.030 --> 00:54:40.110 Shanell Henry Robinson: Right because of who they are or their privilege or their position they might not even recognize that there are others working twice as hard and may still never reach when they are

00:54:41.580 --> 00:54:42.450 Shanell Henry Robinson: So that we given

00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:47.970 Antonia Thompson: That word you just mentioned, which is another confused word for people privilege.

00:54:49.530 --> 00:54:53.160 Antonia Thompson: And I spent a bunch of time, especially with white women.

00:54:54.390 --> 00:54:55.650 Antonia Thompson: Trying to define it.

00:54:57.450 --> 00:54:59.370 Antonia Thompson: So we're gonna wrap up the show, quick, but

00:55:00.390 --> 00:55:06.390 Antonia Thompson: About privilege in your trainings and in the work that you've done in your history. How would you define privileged

00:55:08.340 --> 00:55:11.700 Shanell Henry Robinson: access to opportunity resources.

00:55:12.870 --> 00:55:19.080 Shanell Henry Robinson: On earned advanced advantage, just by virtue of being who you are in the skin, you're in right

00:55:20.130 --> 00:55:30.150 Shanell Henry Robinson: self identity. There are certain types of privileges advantages that come with our various identities and identities and intersections

00:55:30.600 --> 00:55:39.240 Shanell Henry Robinson: We have multiple identities. So while I may, you know, have disadvantages and I talked to students about, you know, groups being pushed up groups being pushed down

00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:49.830 Shanell Henry Robinson: So while I may have some marginalized position ality in terms of being a person of color right being black or being female and we're talking systemically across the board. Right.

00:55:50.010 --> 00:56:06.690 Shanell Henry Robinson: Not as an individual, per se, but as a group in this in this country in the US. There are groups that by virtue of being born as they as they are, whether it's male or white or Christian that you know has sustainable power that exists in this country.

00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:21.540 Shanell Henry Robinson: And it's not. I don't value that in terms of good or bad. I don't place value I want folks to recognize because one thing about privileges that if I have it. I don't have to recognize that others don't, because I may not see it in myself.

00:56:23.160 --> 00:56:32.790 Antonia Thompson: That's right. That's a very, that's very good point. Very good point. So thank you so much for joining us, Chanel Henry, um, it's good to see you again. I'm

00:56:32.790 --> 00:56:33.480 Shanell Henry Robinson: Listening to

00:56:33.510 --> 00:56:39.780 Antonia Thompson: You since the summer. So good to see you. And you got your work cut out for you and I'm so happy.

00:56:40.950 --> 00:56:45.360 Antonia Thompson: That things are going well at the schools, but I do believe that it is it is this younger generation.

00:56:45.630 --> 00:56:56.580 Antonia Thompson: That is getting out there and creating this narrative. And it's the truth. They're our future. So it's good to see that our future is going to have a different narrative unless the adult screw it up.

00:56:58.380 --> 00:57:04.110 Antonia Thompson: mess it up. So I'm just looking at me this election. If anything, I'm just hoping that we get out of their way.

00:57:04.350 --> 00:57:16.380 Antonia Thompson: And I think that'll happen I think will happen. But like you said, it may not be your lifetime, but it will happen. So thank you so much for joining us. I am going to ask you to come back because I think we need to we need to do a flip side.

00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:21.210 Antonia Thompson: varsity inclusion equity within our own black community.

00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:23.820 Shanell Henry Robinson: As a whole nother conversation.

00:57:23.850 --> 00:57:25.020 Shanell Henry Robinson: That's a whole nother conversation.

00:57:25.710 --> 00:57:29.280 Antonia Thompson: I think for us to move our, our people. We need to have that conversation.

00:57:29.610 --> 00:57:43.560 Antonia Thompson: So thank you everybody for tuning in. You're listening to Antonia. So now you know we will see you next Thursday at five, and like I always say the end of the show. I always tell everybody, five, six. Be no, I'm saying five but it's six feet the mask. Wash your hands.

00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:51.780 Antonia Thompson: Covert season, go get that flu shot stay happy and safe and we will see everybody next week. Thank you so much. Now,

00:57:52.140 --> 00:57:53.850 Shanell Henry Robinson: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.