So Now You Know

Thursday, September 24, 2020

2020/09/24 - The College Process During COVID-19

[NEW EPISODE] The College Process During COVID-19

Join the discussion this week as Antonia talk with college advisors about the Class of 2021!

How has the college process changed and what should parents and students be concerned about.

Tune in for this wonderful conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

This week Antonia talks about the college process during COVID. Antonia is currently a parent to a  senior in college so is going through the process personally.  She welcomes guest Michael Pina, a counselor and has been in education for over 20 years.  Michael talks about while there have been changes, there are tools available to help guide the right process.  They further discuss the common app for colleges and how that has changed the application process today and what parents should be looking for to help find the perfect fit for their children when looking at colleges.  


Segment 2

In this segment Antonia brings up the topic of standardized testing, why they are used and where standardized testing will be in the future, especially now in this pandemic driven world.   Michael talks about the pros and cons of standardized testing and how schools will continue to evolve the evaluation of the tests (making optional, etc.)  Antonia brings up the fact that some have not been able to test given the pandemic and how that is all being handled.  Michael discusses his personal situation with his daughter going to college during COVID-19 and how they are handling it.  They further dive into the expenses of colleges today vs. years ago, especially with virtual classes.  


Segment 3

Antonia and Michael talk further about how counselors handle the campus climate for children, especially when it comes to diversity for certain universities and how counselors should be having children and parents also ask questions to universities to make sure the school is the right fit.  They further discuss how schools have handled diversity and some schools that have embraced more diversity today.  Michael dives into what the return on investment should be for going to college and how that should impact some of the decision making in picking a school.  They close with discussing historically Black colleges and some of the thoughts and decision making around those universities.  


Segment 4

They continue to discuss historically Black colleges and how they are talked about with all students today.  Antonia asks about Michael’s college baseball hat collection and where they came from.  They also talk about how important the interview is during the common app process for colleges.  In closing, what should parents be doing this September for kids in the class of 2021 to help with their decision process in picking a school?  


00:00:30.090 --> 00:00:39.540 Antonia: afternoon everyone. It's Antonia on. So now you know we are back here. Hopefully you're if you're here watching your with me. So you've been

00:00:39.990 --> 00:00:43.200 Antonia: happy and healthy and you've been following all your protocols is

00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:58.860 Antonia: I always like to talk about right, our social distancing we're wearing our mask. We're saying see six feet apart and unfortunately if you do have Colvin. I hope you are well and stay strong and hopefully you will come out of this and join us.

00:00:59.940 --> 00:01:05.910 Antonia: And get into a healthier space, but I've noticed this week, we've been talking a lot about reopening and

00:01:06.300 --> 00:01:18.750 Antonia: It's starting to it. You know, my community. It's starting to pop up in all of our schools had a couple of closings so I'm just hoping everybody you know the thought is, we just keep praying and hoping and will come out of this.

00:01:20.790 --> 00:01:37.320 Antonia: A lot stronger than how we went into it. Right. So this week, great topic we're talking about college admissions. I have a good friend of mine, director of college guidance at a school here in my area in Connecticut and Westport, I believe, Michael. Have you joined us.

00:01:37.590 --> 00:01:39.210 Antonia: Now I have hey

00:01:39.270 --> 00:01:40.230 Antonia: How are you

00:01:40.380 --> 00:01:41.370 Michael Pina: Great. How you doing,

00:01:41.610 --> 00:01:52.830 Antonia: Good to see you. And this is so timely and so I just want to put this out there because you know you and I have spoken and, you know, true transparency, I have a senior

00:01:53.550 --> 00:02:04.830 Antonia: Who's going through the college process. So I'm definitely one of those anxious parents who woke up in September and said, Wow, I really gotta I really got to get on the ball here but coven

00:02:05.460 --> 00:02:13.920 Antonia: has really changed the way that we look at colleges. Right, so I thought this was a perfect opportunity to reach out to you and all the work that you do in this space.

00:02:14.670 --> 00:02:23.130 Antonia: To just give us some guidance and in your thoughts. So why don't we start with you, just telling everybody about your work experience and the work either.

00:02:23.940 --> 00:02:30.630 Michael Pina: Okay, well I've been. I've been a counselor and involved in education for more than 20 years over time and

00:02:31.440 --> 00:02:38.760 Michael Pina: And I've counseled so many students helping them throughout the world to find colleges and universities that match and

00:02:39.210 --> 00:02:48.960 Michael Pina: One of the things that struck me with what you said about being a nervous parent of a senior is that yes, these times are different.

00:02:49.650 --> 00:02:59.370 Michael Pina: Because of because of the pandemic and there aren't a lot of answers. But if you go back to the time that your child was born. And you thought you knew what you were doing.

00:02:59.790 --> 00:03:09.210 Michael Pina: And everything was new, there's something that's very similar about this process where it's a new admission cycle in so many ways yet.

00:03:09.870 --> 00:03:22.980 Michael Pina: Your children have the tools and with the right guidance around them. You also have the tools to guide them to really good choices that will propel them to the Bright Futures that we all hope for, for our children.

00:03:24.210 --> 00:03:26.070 Antonia: I guess the disconnect. I have

00:03:27.510 --> 00:03:34.620 Antonia: Is is when I was going through this process, right, which was a very, very long time ago and I think you pointed this out to me when we were talking

00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:52.140 Antonia: That a lot of schools look completely different than what they were when we were going to college right back in. You know, I was a freshman in 87 and it's hard. I feel as a parent to kind of get rid of that right to get over the perfect school. The best place to be.

00:03:53.430 --> 00:03:59.880 Antonia: And we're going to get into a little bit about, you know, test optional and the test that the barriers that some kids have to face getting into school

00:04:00.690 --> 00:04:11.340 Antonia: But I think it's a hard thing is parents to let that go. So I'm always, you know, so I just wanted you to give us a little bit of what you feel, how we can you can talk us off that ledge.

00:04:11.550 --> 00:04:12.840 Antonia: That we know more

00:04:13.110 --> 00:04:17.610 Antonia: Than per se, the professionals are there. We know best, where our kids should be

00:04:18.390 --> 00:04:32.940 Michael Pina: Well, what what i what i tell parents is that this is probably the first time in your child's life where they will definitively know what's best for them, maybe a split second before you do

00:04:33.810 --> 00:04:42.330 Michael Pina: And the real secret to allowing that to happen, is to having the is to have the patience to let them go through that process.

00:04:43.350 --> 00:04:51.300 Michael Pina: Because we do as parents see things more quickly and we often know what's good for our children and we're often and right

00:04:52.110 --> 00:05:02.520 Michael Pina: The key to this maturation is is allowing them to figure out, and to contribute to that conversation. It doesn't necessarily talk, you're off the ledge about what you knew

00:05:03.750 --> 00:05:11.370 Michael Pina: Back in the day, so to speak, but what helps with that is going through some of that research process with your child.

00:05:11.730 --> 00:05:19.560 Michael Pina: And listening to what they say and what they react to. For example, we can't visit colleges, the way that we used to in the way that we were accustomed to.

00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:24.450 Michael Pina: That was a big part name is kind of a rite of passage for for my oldest daughter.

00:05:25.380 --> 00:05:37.410 Michael Pina: For my second daughter we cancelled, a whole bunch of trips to colleges and all of a sudden we were doing virtual searches online at the same time that I was advising other seniors. How to do virtual searches.

00:05:37.770 --> 00:05:44.910 Michael Pina: And how to pick a college after they'd been admitted if they never got a chance to visit. What I learned from that is that

00:05:45.750 --> 00:05:54.000 Michael Pina: I'm kind of an old dog in that in that arena where I like to see, hear, smell and taste a college and

00:05:54.540 --> 00:06:00.690 Michael Pina: The kids enjoy that, too. But they're also equipped to take in the information that's that's relevant to them.

00:06:01.470 --> 00:06:12.150 Michael Pina: And that can really help you as a parent support them in the process. I was learning how to be a digital learner about colleges in a way that I never had had done before.

00:06:13.140 --> 00:06:21.420 Michael Pina: That's what's different about the process. It's unnerving. It's a as as unnerving to summit Tick tock is for me. I can't do a tech talk

00:06:23.520 --> 00:06:34.350 Michael Pina: But there there are kids that are as young as three that are doing doing tech talks with their older siblings and and we have to be aware of that and and really allow for that process to happen.

00:06:36.300 --> 00:06:44.640 Antonia: When we were applying to college in you know it was that paper and pen. Right now we have the common app. And I know you have spent some time working

00:06:45.660 --> 00:07:03.960 Antonia: On the board right yes the common app. Can you talk a little bit about how that has changed the process as our kids are applying to schools because a lot of times I want to see that app. I want to feel it, you know, I again going back to the process that we as parents know because

00:07:04.650 --> 00:07:06.240 Antonia: From what we we went through.

00:07:07.320 --> 00:07:22.920 Antonia: How has that changed the way that schools are they able to reach a lot more kids with it, is it used as a dividing factor as to who gets what, because I also feel that what happens if you don't you don't have access to fill out that out.

00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:38.040 Michael Pina: What one of the, one of the things about the common app is that it has made it easier for students to apply to more colleges, it's it's really made the access to applying to college, a lot easier for students that otherwise would not

00:07:39.450 --> 00:07:45.480 Michael Pina: Have access or know about colleges. They provide services and they partnered with the Michelle Obama foundation and and

00:07:45.840 --> 00:07:49.860 Michael Pina: And and they're really, they're really working hard to make sure that people can apply to colleges

00:07:50.280 --> 00:07:58.110 Michael Pina: What that means in a lot of communities, including communities like mine where we knew about college and where we went to schools and we have a lot of friends.

00:07:58.350 --> 00:08:11.190 Michael Pina: That went to colleges that were knowledgeable about a lot more colleges and we hear reputations about a lot more colleges, the kids apply and they're trying to really sort through more information than maybe we had to sort through at the time.

00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:13.290 Michael Pina: I think the common app.

00:08:14.370 --> 00:08:20.940 Michael Pina: facilitates the ability to apply to more colleges, but it also leaves a responsibility upon the children to be

00:08:21.270 --> 00:08:28.140 Michael Pina: very thoughtful and to really push back and learn how to push back against parents that say, Hey, you know, you never know.

00:08:28.500 --> 00:08:38.760 Michael Pina: If you, if you apply to Stanford. You never know. Well, let's talk about a place like a Stanford really for 90 94% of the people that apply. It's not going to end up in an admission.

00:08:39.420 --> 00:08:44.520 Michael Pina: So if you start with that. And you know that it's it's a reach then you think about you start thinking about. Okay.

00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:52.890 Michael Pina: Why is that place a really good fit for me. Why do I belong. You don't need 6% of the admit you need one admission letter.

00:08:53.490 --> 00:09:00.450 Michael Pina: So whether you're applying to Stanford, or whether you're going a different route. For example, in the in the state of California UCLA was

00:09:00.810 --> 00:09:04.590 Michael Pina: Ranked the number one public university, I think for the third or fourth year in a row.

00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:09.330 Michael Pina: It's very hard to get into for people in California, they know that they can go to community college

00:09:09.780 --> 00:09:18.240 Michael Pina: For two years and and get a transfer into a UCLA or UC Berkeley and get the same the same degree and have a lot of those experiences.

00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:26.160 Michael Pina: being creative about that process, thinking about what it means to be there and thinking about what you're trying to get out of your college experience.

00:09:26.430 --> 00:09:35.100 Michael Pina: Helps you look for match instead of looking for what percentage. Can I get in or what percentage do they reject and can I be among them. It's do I belong.

00:09:36.210 --> 00:09:47.760 Michael Pina: Is this where is this where I'm going to get better, for I have to give a plug for my alma mater. I went to Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut. Okay. And there are only two types of students that go to Trinity.

00:09:48.540 --> 00:09:54.420 Michael Pina: those for whom a Trinity College makes them and those for whom Trinity College makes them better.

00:09:55.020 --> 00:10:01.170 Michael Pina: And I like to say that I'm a part I'm part of a cadre of folks that went to Trinity College, that really feel like

00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:13.320 Michael Pina: We are better for our experience our friendships, our relationships, our bonds, the work that we do. What we're committed to doing what we're willing to try. It's all a part of what we learned in that environment.

00:10:14.220 --> 00:10:22.860 Michael Pina: My dad left to go to a different college at some point. Now in my adult life. Sure, I would have loved to have been a at a big football game.

00:10:23.970 --> 00:10:31.590 Michael Pina: That had thousands of fans because I got the pleasure of going to a Michigan game and some Boston College games and that and Notre Dame.

00:10:32.340 --> 00:10:41.850 Michael Pina: I've seen that. And maybe I would have loved that. But for me at the time my match was a small college that allowed me to really explore who I wanted to become

00:10:42.870 --> 00:10:44.670 Antonia: And I, I think.

00:10:46.050 --> 00:10:55.500 Antonia: You know, I went to BC as, as you know, and I think when I was applying to schools. It was more of like, you know what first generation. My parents were immigrants.

00:10:55.860 --> 00:11:00.420 Antonia: Didn't know much about the process outside of the fact that their kids had to go to college right

00:11:00.780 --> 00:11:10.140 Antonia: And even going through that process. Luckily for me. I had older siblings that had also gone to college, so it was you know they were going to get me to where I needed to be

00:11:10.500 --> 00:11:16.050 Antonia: Back then, we had affirmative action. We had a lot more programs that were recruiting first gen

00:11:16.830 --> 00:11:24.540 Antonia: Students of color onto their campuses that has changed a lot since we were applying. So when you talk about

00:11:24.990 --> 00:11:30.630 Antonia: You know, knowing your, your kids wants knowing their desires. What else should parents be looking at

00:11:31.020 --> 00:11:41.700 Antonia: As far as looking at all these different schools in in finding that perfect perfect fit. Because a lot of times I might ask my daughter. What do you think you want to do. What kind of classes do you like, I don't know, you know,

00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:55.050 Antonia: So it makes it hard to try to put that hat on of let me look at different schools that might be a fit when I don't quite know what is a fit for her and then how does she show up a campus right

00:11:55.080 --> 00:11:58.080 Antonia: What is, what are the supports that are going to be there for her when she gets there.

00:11:59.220 --> 00:12:00.900 Michael Pina: Well, they're, they're really, they're really

00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:13.410 Michael Pina: A few questions and a few layers. And that question. One of them having to deal with how to schools do outreach when there's been an assault on affirmative action, there's been

00:12:14.550 --> 00:12:21.750 Michael Pina: People looking looking at it as as an unfair advantage for whatever reason they have. And for some colleges

00:12:22.350 --> 00:12:31.050 Michael Pina: Really not being in a position because of legal challenges to to recruit and that happened in Texas. And then in California for example, well,

00:12:31.590 --> 00:12:43.650 Michael Pina: The reality is the colleges have not changed in terms of their mission to bring together a diverse set of ideas and a diverse group of students because not because they want more.

00:12:44.550 --> 00:12:53.550 Michael Pina: Black and Brown children on their campus. It's because it really enhances the educational experience for everyone and the colleges and the educated folks still believe that

00:12:53.940 --> 00:13:05.100 Michael Pina: Now among that they're just a more people there are actually more first generation students applying to colleges and there are more people that sit in a situation like you and I do where

00:13:05.760 --> 00:13:11.970 Michael Pina: The parents have gone to school and and they're in a different position than, than we were as first generation students

00:13:12.630 --> 00:13:22.200 Michael Pina: We have to also recognize that for our children that their, their experience and their hunger may be tied more to the community that they're in where they're not able to

00:13:22.800 --> 00:13:31.230 Michael Pina: Yet develop that sharp focus so casting a broad net in terms of what do you want to do is more. What do you enjoy

00:13:31.800 --> 00:13:42.060 Michael Pina: An understanding okay if they enjoy this if they learn how to problem solve, then I don't know about you, but my first job had nothing to do with philosophy.

00:13:42.780 --> 00:13:51.300 Michael Pina: I was working at a computer company. But I learned how to learn because I didn't know what I wanted to do. And then I learned something different.

00:13:52.560 --> 00:13:59.010 Michael Pina: That's what's happening with with Children Now the the investment companies are looking for people that can solve things that can

00:14:00.090 --> 00:14:06.240 Michael Pina: That can really break down problems and come with creative solutions, the businesses are looking for that.

00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:22.950 Michael Pina: They also need the people that can crunch numbers and that can do the do the mundane things that we might think are really lucrative and profitable, even those people are creative and so that's, we have to really inspire children to pursue their dreams and learn those key skills.

00:14:23.970 --> 00:14:28.740 Antonia: So we're going to get ready to take a quick break and when we come back I want to get into the ACTA that as

00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:30.090 Michael Pina: The essay teams in

00:14:30.420 --> 00:14:36.630 Antonia: The world of of these tests to take not to take and, you know, the world of coffee, we can't take

00:14:37.230 --> 00:14:46.890 Antonia: So you're listening to her Antonia I am here with Michael Peter, we're talking about the college admission and specifically for me, Ghana being transparent. The class of 2021 and we'll be right back.

00:16:53.550 --> 00:17:00.240 Antonia: Hi, we're back. It's Antonia you're listening to. So now you know and we are talking about the college campus.

00:17:01.290 --> 00:17:02.820 Antonia: With my good friend Michael painter.

00:17:04.050 --> 00:17:06.810 Antonia: Um, did we lose. I hope we didn't lose Mike

00:17:06.900 --> 00:17:07.710 Michael Pina: I'm still here.

00:17:08.130 --> 00:17:08.520 Antonia: You are

00:17:08.670 --> 00:17:08.970 Michael Pina: Okay.

00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:11.310 Antonia: I, you know, I'm trying to do the audio and the visual

00:17:11.550 --> 00:17:22.860 Antonia: If you're listening. We're also on streaming live on Facebook. And so right before we took the break, I talked about standardized testing. I think it's been the bane of a lot of people's

00:17:23.970 --> 00:17:32.340 Antonia: The nerve and so forth of getting our kids ready to take these tests. So I want to spend a little time talking about that one.

00:17:33.390 --> 00:17:47.130 Antonia: Should they exist not exist. What is the feeling in your world and your profession. What is the point of having him. And what do you see is the future and then we will talk about covidien how it that just blew it all out of the water.

00:17:48.300 --> 00:17:51.030 Michael Pina: Oh wow, that is that is a that is a really

00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:52.980 Michael Pina: Good question.

00:17:53.940 --> 00:18:09.960 Michael Pina: You know in in our world as as college counselors, we have seen a growth of outsized importance placed on testing when their predictive value is is not even close to even what it used to be when it was still subpar

00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:22.590 Michael Pina: I am not a big fan of testing, but I've seen it as something that is has been a necessary evil for for some some majors need it for in order to place kids.

00:18:23.490 --> 00:18:37.110 Michael Pina: I've seen it as being a barrier for some students and I love looking at places like fair and I love this movement towards being test optional because for some students is really, it's a really great opportunity to show strength.

00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:46.620 Michael Pina: As a college counselor in a community where people are able to prepare for testing and it often is a place where they can show strength.

00:18:47.280 --> 00:18:56.040 Michael Pina: I feel, I feel for all those students that are either working really hard to prepare for their test and they show up at a testing center that's been closed.

00:18:57.180 --> 00:19:01.380 Michael Pina: Or they've had test canceled that's that's been something where

00:19:02.760 --> 00:19:10.620 Michael Pina: You can't. You can't really apologize enough to students for the state of the world where they where they can't do what they prepared to do

00:19:12.810 --> 00:19:13.860 Michael Pina: I think in the future.

00:19:14.580 --> 00:19:21.630 Antonia: Do you think well right now. They haven't tested it. All right. I think they were able to get I know my daughter set for at least one a CT

00:19:22.050 --> 00:19:26.640 Antonia: But I think since that rat that initial round for this class.

00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:28.320 Antonia: They haven't had any

00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:30.360 Michael Pina: Yeah, they have

00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:31.590 Antonia: One for the exam, I should say.

00:19:32.190 --> 00:19:36.450 Michael Pina: Well, there was a headline inside. Inside Higher Ed that said that

00:19:37.560 --> 00:19:51.270 Michael Pina: It. I mean, it was a scary headline where there were over 120,000 students that were left out in the cold over the most recent testing and they were school day testing we successfully ran a school day test for our seniors.

00:19:52.470 --> 00:20:01.410 Michael Pina: Yesterday, before I came on the showers putting those up and there been places where people can take the testing. But I think the message to the viewers would be

00:20:01.830 --> 00:20:12.960 Michael Pina: That the college's understand what students are going through and that they don't have access, the way that they did and they may have taken a test really early on as a practice and it doesn't represent them.

00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:29.130 Michael Pina: So when they say score optional or test blind. There was one admissions officer recently on a call that said hey look we say we're test optional and if you have, if you have a 1400 and our averages.

00:20:30.510 --> 00:20:31.830 Michael Pina: Don't send those scores.

00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:44.430 Michael Pina: You know, we mean test optional. When we say test optional and so that means that the colleges and universities ones that have relied on testing heavily that score optional.

00:20:44.970 --> 00:20:54.240 Michael Pina: They're looking at other holistic ways to look at students, they're looking more closely at the transcript. They're learning from their colleagues that have been test optional or test blind for a long time.

00:20:54.750 --> 00:21:04.530 Michael Pina: And they're really looking for ways to admit students that have talent that can really demonstrate in their application why they fit those colleges and universities.

00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:06.810 Antonia: Yeah, but why not, then why not just get rid of it.

00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:20.550 Antonia: Why not just say for this. It's funny, I always say class of 2021 because I feel a lot of conversations that I've heard it's just for this year, whether a school wants to, you know, make sure that they can make a decision for the next class.

00:21:21.270 --> 00:21:30.960 Antonia: To not to not use them. I just don't understand because it just seems it's not fair. Right. If you've had kids that have taken the test have the option of sending it in not sending it

00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:31.140 Michael Pina: In

00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:39.390 Antonia: As opposed to a child who had no opportunity for whatever reason they felt that they were going to start testing later they wanted to have more time to prepare

00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:43.020 Antonia: That that's not fair. So why not just say, just don't even send them.

00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:56.400 Michael Pina: I wish people would be more test blind. I think that, again, in a community like ours. There are some people that have had the opportunity to prepare and test and it might be one element of strength.

00:21:56.940 --> 00:22:05.010 Michael Pina: It's taking an outsize importance and the parent community and then the student community and it's a it creates a lot of anxiety around the testing so

00:22:05.550 --> 00:22:11.610 Michael Pina: My hope is that there will be more schools that will be test optional or do away with testing, you know, the UCS

00:22:12.210 --> 00:22:17.760 Michael Pina: did away with testing for the year. And then the court told them that they needed to do away with it permanently. They can't even look at

00:22:18.450 --> 00:22:29.790 Michael Pina: Sa T or a CTS and people that know the history of the the essay t know that the UCS use of it because there's such a large system was a thing either University California

00:22:32.580 --> 00:22:34.800 Michael Pina: And so, sorry, those acronyms.

00:22:37.560 --> 00:22:47.100 Michael Pina: It's been a driver and and those places not using it and the and the ivy League's having score optional stands for the first time. And I think in their history.

00:22:48.270 --> 00:22:54.480 Michael Pina: Hopefully will drive other people that have rely too heavily on them. It will drive them to to re examine their processes.

00:22:55.020 --> 00:22:57.990 Michael Pina: This year, they have to because the tests aren't there, right.

00:22:58.710 --> 00:23:08.310 Michael Pina: And when they learn that they can get their great classes, doing the holistic things that they want. I think it also will help those schools that are that are looking for.

00:23:08.790 --> 00:23:21.780 Michael Pina: Ways to keep their learning environments places that are diverse places that are able to attract people from all over the world and places that are able to really be those places that make people better

00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:36.930 Michael Pina: And that's and that's what that's what I think it's all about testing should go away. I don't disagree with you on that. I don't think it will go away for everybody, but I think that what's going to come out of this is that there will be a stronger.

00:23:38.280 --> 00:23:44.790 Michael Pina: Process for evaluating all students talents and then deciding how to build that class.

00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:54.450 Antonia: So you have your both your daughters away right your youngest just starting her first year. So what, how are you feeling with coven world.

00:23:54.540 --> 00:24:00.600 Antonia: And the fact that I believe the youngest daughter, you shared with me. You know, they have now gone completely virtual

00:24:01.170 --> 00:24:08.490 Antonia: Um, because I think for parents that are now sent their kids for their freshman year dealing with coven know coven are they coming home.

00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:21.180 Antonia: Are they going to contract code while they're on campus and then those that are applying. Well, what is the fall going to look like next year when their kids are going and then we're, you know, we're going to get to the expenses of college, which is another big

00:24:22.950 --> 00:24:27.900 Antonia: So what's your perspective now. Like what are you feeling now that you've got a you've got a freshman on campus.

00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:30.990 Antonia: And you're going through coven

00:24:31.950 --> 00:24:34.410 Michael Pina: Well, you know, I feel like

00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:41.520 Michael Pina: Having that patients to to allow her to to really make the decision.

00:24:42.600 --> 00:24:50.250 Michael Pina: To go when we were throwing the curveball that they have to close the dormitories because of coven and because of the town.

00:24:52.050 --> 00:24:59.550 Michael Pina: It was really a curveball, because we had just spent a week out there. We moved her into the dorm, we were hanging out and everything was going well.

00:25:01.560 --> 00:25:11.310 Michael Pina: She made the decision and use the skills that she learned to network and and it's something that I don't know how big a fan. I am of my 18 year old daughter having her first department.

00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:25.560 Michael Pina: But it's one where she did that and she made she made that decision because she's all in and she feels like she found a place that matches the school has been supportive and and in ways that they can

00:25:26.850 --> 00:25:39.480 Michael Pina: And it's not easy. The other one that's that's out and in California where they're doing online. That one's a little bit. A little bit stickier. Because you know she's ready for an apartment, but she needs a school to go to

00:25:40.710 --> 00:25:41.940 Michael Pina: It's hard to do that right now.

00:25:43.290 --> 00:25:43.830 Antonia: Right.

00:25:45.150 --> 00:25:46.170 Antonia: And I think a lot of

00:25:47.250 --> 00:25:53.280 Antonia: You know, again, it's expensive college is so expensive compared to when when we were going

00:25:54.510 --> 00:26:04.140 Antonia: To school and i think it's it's it's a decision that parents have to think about all the time. I'm putting all this money for her to be on campus and she's doing a virtual

00:26:06.360 --> 00:26:11.070 Antonia: And I don't know how financial aid or anything else plays into that because I do think is

00:26:11.790 --> 00:26:18.240 Antonia: This again 2021 this this class, making that decision of, well, what is the college campus going to look like in the fall.

00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:29.340 Antonia: Are we going to have a vaccine. Is it going to be accessible to everybody. How is the car, the college is going to learn over this year, how to better prepare this next class. So do you think

00:26:30.150 --> 00:26:40.410 Antonia: More kids are going to opt to take a year off or do you think that's going to change the way that parents are looking at different campuses that they may send their children to

00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:50.520 Michael Pina: Um, well, I read a study in in May, that said that if schools went totally online, they were risking losing about a third of their class.

00:26:51.060 --> 00:27:02.700 Michael Pina: And if they did some sort of hybrid learning, then they would retain 95% of their class so far what the statistics are showing is that it's about a two and a half percent

00:27:03.210 --> 00:27:17.280 Michael Pina: drop in the number of students that are enrolling in schools, the thing that you asked about the the value proposition of paying for public and private universities that are anywhere from 42 to $75,000 a year.

00:27:18.120 --> 00:27:23.550 Michael Pina: For many of those places, that's one that I think that colleges and families have been grappling with.

00:27:24.120 --> 00:27:34.950 Michael Pina: At least over the last 10 years with continually increases in education costs and and not so many increases in in everybody's salaries and earning

00:27:35.940 --> 00:27:53.310 Michael Pina: And so they've been grappling with that. I don't think the colleges are there yet, in terms of figuring out how to adjust pricing, there's a there's a misconception that delivering the learning online is somehow so much less expensive.

00:27:54.450 --> 00:27:59.160 Michael Pina: For a school that's not equipped to do that. That's, that's not that's not necessarily true.

00:28:00.150 --> 00:28:08.760 Michael Pina: The thing that's a little bit off is that you're not running a food program you're not running the room and board and some schools have not adjusted

00:28:09.270 --> 00:28:23.880 Michael Pina: Enough, I think, to really compensate for what what's not being offered if you're paying a student fee and for facilities that you can't use. It's kind of hard to really justify that it's a contribution to me.

00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:30.720 Antonia: And what I tried to send you before with the, the Wall Street Journal article

00:28:31.500 --> 00:28:41.010 Antonia: Was a conversation about how a lot of small private schools might look at bankruptcy, right, because a lot of the issues that they're facing. They don't have huge endowments.

00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:47.760 Antonia: They are seeing a slip in the enrollment at the schools and then they on top of that they have the expenses of the protocol for Kofi

00:28:48.660 --> 00:28:58.410 Antonia: So there was a discussion about those types of schools and then also account, you know, a conversation of equity, like what, not every family can send their child away.

00:28:58.650 --> 00:28:59.100 Antonia: And then

00:28:59.190 --> 00:29:01.020 Antonia: You know, get an apartment or

00:29:01.020 --> 00:29:05.970 Antonia: Have some other way for them to be in those communities. So what does that mean for

00:29:07.410 --> 00:29:10.200 Antonia: What does that mean for folks who can't afford that. Right.

00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:11.340 Antonia: Or already

00:29:11.850 --> 00:29:22.710 Antonia: Struggling to send their kids will that deter those communities for for their children to apply. So it's a very interesting article about basically what's facing

00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:37.350 Antonia: Secondary Education with Coleman and the effective that has your community have any discussions around that. Do you see certain schools that might be struggling. I mean, what are you ready to take a break. So we'll probably go into talk about, but what is your sense

00:29:37.770 --> 00:29:47.790 Michael Pina: My sense is that there will be there will be some schools that that struggle and close both and the independent school world as well as like the college universities and colleges, universities.

00:29:48.210 --> 00:30:01.440 Michael Pina: we've even seen some mergers over the years because of because of the financial situation with some colleges either merging or absorbing there's a there's a great school of education that was always a great school and Boston called Wheelock college

00:30:01.710 --> 00:30:09.030 Michael Pina: Yes. And we lock as an amazing school and it was an amazing school before it was a Wheelock School of Education under Boston University.

00:30:09.810 --> 00:30:19.050 Michael Pina: And so now it's a part of Boston University, which is which is a bigger parent, but it's still the same outstanding education we might see some more of that among colleges, universities.

00:30:20.370 --> 00:30:29.220 Michael Pina: And, and I think we have to prepare for that. And I also think that it leaves open the conversation where we have students that are different kinds of learners.

00:30:29.520 --> 00:30:37.770 Michael Pina: There's, there's an entrepreneur. His name is Jean Wade, he's a he's a Boston. Boston person who talked about different ways of delivering

00:30:38.190 --> 00:30:48.570 Michael Pina: free education online and he's had a couple of a couple of ventures that have done that and I think it will accelerate that discussion, even more so that it won't be bleeding edge necessarily

00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:55.410 Michael Pina: When we have named universities, giving and and certifying their, their folks with an online education.

00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:05.250 Michael Pina: If they're getting them into competition with with other places that are trying to deliver the same quality for a lower or or or no cost.

00:31:06.120 --> 00:31:15.270 Michael Pina: When people start to see that value. If it's the quality of the education, then that will be something where they'll differentiate between the education and the total experience.

00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:25.290 Michael Pina: I'm one that believes that college experiences where students do their most, most of the learning being among their peers and and that networking and growing a lot of learning happens outside of the classroom.

00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:31.890 Michael Pina: Will have to find creative ways to to make sure that our children can continue that maturation.

00:31:33.090 --> 00:31:35.520 Michael Pina: And I don't know how to do that. Okay.

00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:37.950 Antonia: Okay, because I'm going to ask you, so

00:31:38.310 --> 00:31:50.280 Antonia: We're going to take a break and we're going to think about that a little bit more you're listening to Antonia and so now you know. And we're with Michael pina's we're talking about the college admissions process and the good old class of 2021. We'll be right back.

00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:19.440 Antonia: So welcome back, you're listening to Antonia and we are talking about the college process and a you know a lot of why I keep saying class of 2021 is

00:34:20.520 --> 00:34:25.950 Antonia: You know, my daughter is getting is a rising senior were going through that process. So, of course, I'm taking a very personal.

00:34:26.670 --> 00:34:38.490 Antonia: Um, and as you before we believe we were talking about the possibility that some schools would be merging and I know Boston College merge with pine Manor, which is another small school

00:34:39.690 --> 00:34:48.570 Antonia: In Boston, that was close to the campus. So I think that you're right, it has been starting slowly over the last couple of years. So it'll be interesting to see.

00:34:49.350 --> 00:34:58.020 Antonia: Who makes it who and who doesn't. Um, but what I want to talk a little bit more about though is campus climate and then Michael did you come back.

00:34:58.380 --> 00:34:59.580 Michael Pina: I am back and I keep

00:34:59.580 --> 00:35:10.050 Antonia: Looking at the screen and I only see half of it so campus climate and, you know, we have this very troublesome time that we're going through, as a country, as a community,

00:35:10.410 --> 00:35:18.090 Antonia: And those are one of the things that I think about is where I'm sending her next year and where will we be will have an election coming up.

00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:33.840 Antonia: And so how how do we talk to our counselors in our high schools that are that are you know steering us to these different campuses and then we're kind of saying like, oh, I don't know if that's going to be a fit, especially, you know, for a black girl to be in

00:35:34.560 --> 00:35:50.250 Antonia: How do we set that up. How do we have that conversation. And then what campuses. Have you seen that have that, you know, maybe we haven't thought about as a as a community of color that have become very inviting and supportive for our students of color.

00:35:51.060 --> 00:35:52.710 Michael Pina: Okay, so I think

00:35:52.740 --> 00:35:53.850 Antonia: I think if I ask you 10

00:35:53.850 --> 00:35:55.260 Antonia: Questions. But I told you from beginning

00:35:56.910 --> 00:35:58.860 Antonia: This is such an interesting topic to me.

00:36:00.630 --> 00:36:12.060 Michael Pina: They're great questions. And I think the campus climate question is one where you have to take a deep breath. Because sometimes, sometimes a counselor may not know the

00:36:12.510 --> 00:36:23.040 Michael Pina: How the value is internalized by your child. A child of color at a, at a predominantly white school may not always express or be aware

00:36:23.490 --> 00:36:31.290 Michael Pina: Of how much that matters when they've been in an environment where there's not as many people of color and that type of thing. They may feel like that might be something that's suppressed.

00:36:31.740 --> 00:36:37.650 Michael Pina: Part of the college process is having them speak to different people on the campus. So ask the counselor.

00:36:38.130 --> 00:36:48.360 Michael Pina: Who can you get me in touch with. That's part of the Black Student Union who can you who can you get me in touch with that can talk about what the school is doing around diversity or what their stances. What are the big issues.

00:36:48.750 --> 00:36:55.020 Michael Pina: On campus that they're talking about, if anybody tells you all the big issue is parking run away.

00:36:56.130 --> 00:37:07.980 Michael Pina: That's the big issue on campus is there's a there's another P word for that and call that privilege in that might not be the thing that you really want to talk about when you're talking about the essence of taking care of your child.

00:37:09.120 --> 00:37:11.190 Michael Pina: I think there's a lot of legwork involved in that.

00:37:11.910 --> 00:37:22.260 Michael Pina: I think, as a parent, you have to have the courage to let your child lead you there. But then go in and ask the questions that you would ask to make sure that your child is safe, just like you would

00:37:22.530 --> 00:37:30.900 Michael Pina: When they're, when they're going somewhere else saw you ask about like, okay, do you have mental health you have services. Are there other healthcare facilities on campus.

00:37:31.230 --> 00:37:37.170 Michael Pina: What about what about safety on campus, you know what, what kinds of programs do you have to support students of color.

00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:50.370 Michael Pina: Ask those questions be direct and if you don't get the answer you want if you get kind of a very lightweight response. Ask for somebody else to talk to you. And I think that's just it's extra work that we have to do sometimes, but it's important

00:37:51.750 --> 00:37:53.100 Michael Pina: Was the second part of your question.

00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:58.680 Antonia: To have you seen some schools that have really done a really good job about diversifying their campuses.

00:37:59.070 --> 00:38:03.510 Antonia: And maybe if you know you've only diverse what you have there on campus but have done.

00:38:03.510 --> 00:38:04.530 Antonia: Really good jobs and

00:38:04.530 --> 00:38:14.880 Antonia: Changing their, their campus culture because I remember a time and you know you when you're in school in Boston. How many. I mean, we'd be rich. If we got $1 for every student was like, I will never live in Boston. I'm never going to

00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:21.570 Antonia: Stay in Boston. I don't know why I'm in school in Boston. This is the most racist place to be. But yet they were on our campus. We wanted to say.

00:38:22.830 --> 00:38:34.200 Antonia: Um, so yeah, so I think even, like, you know, we have in our minds what would be a great campus for our kids. But again, having to put that aside and say, well, where would be the best place for

00:38:34.200 --> 00:38:47.100 Michael Pina: Them. I think that's a really complicated question, because there's some look at critical mass of students and having that having a number of students of color and different ideas and ideals.

00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:59.490 Michael Pina: There's also different parts of the country that will approach it differently. And that will resonate so when you ask about schools that have done a good job, what I look for our schools that are making investments from the top to the bottom.

00:38:59.970 --> 00:39:08.370 Michael Pina: In terms of having the discussions and actually having substantive discussions about being anti racist about really dealing with

00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:13.890 Michael Pina: Issues of where they have a responsibility that goes along with their privilege.

00:39:15.060 --> 00:39:19.440 Michael Pina: If you were to ask me one, one that would come to mind for me would be University of Richmond.

00:39:20.640 --> 00:39:29.790 Michael Pina: I think that they they have over the years. I know their president is retiring next year. But over the years they have changed from a place that

00:39:30.330 --> 00:39:41.340 Michael Pina: That dripped of privilege and and whiteness and a lot of people's eyes to a place that still drips a privilege and has a commitment to something that's a, that's a, that's a little bit different for their community.

00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:44.670 Michael Pina: I think that that's that's one that I would think about

00:39:45.660 --> 00:39:55.830 Michael Pina: I think that Rhodes College and Memphis, Tennessee. You know, it's kind of coming from the east coast. It's hard to get people to think about the South, they have this idea about the salt that doesn't

00:39:56.310 --> 00:40:04.020 Michael Pina: Give a city like Memphis that the opportunity to has four kids. And when I tell kids is it's like you're not going to buy a house in this particular

00:40:04.500 --> 00:40:09.570 Michael Pina: Situation. So if you go to South Bend, Indiana, and no bc person goes here except for a football game.

00:40:09.930 --> 00:40:16.410 Michael Pina: But if you're going to South Bend, Indiana, you're not going to buy a house, necessarily, you're going to go to school and have an experience with with peers.

00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:31.080 Michael Pina: Think about the school as a temporary landing ground. I had loved going to school in Hartford. Okay. It's a good city as a young single man, it was not a great place for me. I had to go to Boston and go to New York and that that was that was what it was.

00:40:32.730 --> 00:40:39.270 Michael Pina: Think about that parents that there's a difference between going to school for four years, or I say three and a half years because a lot of students will

00:40:39.570 --> 00:40:51.000 Michael Pina: Do some sort of program off campus at some point in their career. Think about it as that particular experience and a place that can network, you know, nationally or globally, depending on the interest

00:40:52.410 --> 00:41:05.040 Antonia: Should we give any thought to school reputation as far as, you know, we always think of grad school and beyond. How does that play in some of the choices that a parent might make

00:41:05.850 --> 00:41:15.390 Antonia: For the college that they're choosing because i'd like you said, I think a lot of kids don't know what they want to major in, um, but then yet maybe after spending three years on campus, they will decide

00:41:16.620 --> 00:41:16.890 Michael Pina: So,

00:41:17.430 --> 00:41:20.250 Michael Pina: You're really talking about return on investment when you're spending that much money.

00:41:20.250 --> 00:41:30.300 Michael Pina: What's, what's your return on investment in that education. What, what, what does it get you and and i and i think that that's an important thing to think about in the background.

00:41:31.470 --> 00:41:34.950 Michael Pina: The return on the investment as your child comes out of their whole and better

00:41:36.060 --> 00:41:46.440 Michael Pina: And if that's what you're thinking about, because if you think about it, if your, if your child goes to let's pick a school that people might know in Cambridge, Massachusetts, he thought I was gonna say Harvard MIT.

00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:59.490 Michael Pina: You know if they if they go to MIT and they and they come out of there and they and they and they barely made it and in their, in their not whole

00:42:00.600 --> 00:42:12.300 Michael Pina: Might it have been better for them to go to another school and and study and come out hole and then go to MIT to the Sloan School of Management because they really shown that they're

00:42:13.470 --> 00:42:20.850 Michael Pina: Amazing at what they do, that's finding that fit in that level. The other thing about when you talk about the college's

00:42:22.140 --> 00:42:34.080 Michael Pina: How it's different than when we were going to school, they were there were maybe, you know, a couple dozen schools that we knew about that had names either was from ESPN, or we heard about them education wise from the east coast.

00:42:36.450 --> 00:42:39.870 Michael Pina: That's different. Now because there's so many more students applying to schools.

00:42:40.590 --> 00:42:51.060 Michael Pina: Not everybody can go to those quote unquote elite schools, whether it's a NASDAQ or or they the elite Catholic schools that used to be kind of the elite.

00:42:51.390 --> 00:42:59.580 Michael Pina: So what that means is that even they still have that value assessment. That means that the schools have really stepped up in terms of the students that they are drawn

00:43:00.180 --> 00:43:13.380 Michael Pina: And the schools have always had those professors that have been educated at the places that have the reputation. I think reputation is important. I think it's important to think about. And it's more important to think about your child and what they can get out of it.

00:43:15.030 --> 00:43:26.550 Antonia: So as we get ready to take our next break. Let's talk about historically black colleges. I do feel in the process that I've gone through it has it, I think, was mentioned once it has been mentioned again by her counselor.

00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:33.000 Antonia: So can you talk a little bit about that because I do think that that is something that is missed a lot

00:43:34.680 --> 00:43:41.760 Michael Pina: I agree with you. I think that I think that sometimes people are afraid to ask the question of a person of color.

00:43:42.210 --> 00:43:48.210 Michael Pina: Would you consider historically black college. And I think that's a big mistake. And sometimes I think families.

00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:54.420 Michael Pina: Aren't really looking necessarily at that because they think that, oh, I have to go into the real world.

00:43:55.110 --> 00:44:06.510 Michael Pina: Well, I have to tell you the real world includes black and brown people. And if that's the right place for you and if it really builds and makes you better you know it's really funny that you asked that question and I think about

00:44:07.050 --> 00:44:14.490 Michael Pina: This, this person, this gene weight guy that I knew from Boston. And he went to Morehouse for undergrad and

00:44:15.060 --> 00:44:22.710 Michael Pina: And he's, he's a Harvard Law and a pen Wharton School grad for business school. The reason why that is, is because he knew who he was.

00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:37.290 Michael Pina: He knew who you want it to become and every place that he went, it made him better. That should be the poster child for considering you can consider it and decide it's not for you, but if you don't consider it and you're, you're a person of color. I think that's a mistake.

00:44:39.990 --> 00:44:44.730 Antonia: Well, we're going to get ready to take a break and we're going to come back and pick this up because I do think

00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:57.840 Antonia: It is not talked enough by by school counselors and then even in within our community. So it's Antonia you're listening to. So now you know with Michael Pina AND WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK.

00:46:50.550 --> 00:47:01.920 Antonia: Welcome back, you're listening to. So now you know and we are talking to Michael peanut about the college process and we were just talking about historically black colleges

00:47:04.200 --> 00:47:10.080 Antonia: And I'll ask this, do we offer that option to white students to non black students

00:47:10.650 --> 00:47:21.630 Michael Pina: Here. That's really funny question. You know, we do these searches with the search engines and I had a I had a student who came in and they they love DC

00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:32.100 Michael Pina: And so, Howard University was on the top of their list. And I said, I said, Oh, so you're interested in historically black college. He goes, oh,

00:47:34.080 --> 00:47:44.970 Michael Pina: Oh, and I said well you know they did have a white valedictorian and this was this was a number of years back that a white valedictorian and and she said, Well, I do want to play such diverse. I said, Well, look at it.

00:47:45.870 --> 00:47:54.660 Michael Pina: And see if it's right for you. It didn't end up being the right place. But I think that it's it's different proposing it if you if you know your, you know, your students well

00:47:55.230 --> 00:48:02.160 Michael Pina: And it's not a good fit than having it be a discussion for somebody where it could be something that they haven't discovered about themselves.

00:48:03.150 --> 00:48:09.240 Michael Pina: One of the things I would say to people that are in schools with with counselors that are very well networked is

00:48:10.140 --> 00:48:12.930 Michael Pina: Ask that question, even if you don't think it's right for your family.

00:48:13.890 --> 00:48:25.110 Michael Pina: Like, ask the counselor and make sure that the counselors knowledgeable, because sometimes the counselor or the teachers see things in your child when they see them every day at school that may not be as readily available to a family at home.

00:48:25.680 --> 00:48:33.420 Michael Pina: And it's vice versa. That's where the partnership comes in when we traveled to DC. We saw the requisite American Georgetown and GW

00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:40.890 Michael Pina: And my team. We wanted to go see Howard University and we toured it when we went to Atlanta. We definitely went to Emory and we spent some time there.

00:48:41.190 --> 00:48:52.170 Michael Pina: But we went to Spelman Clark Atlanta and Morehouse because it was important for my team. I think for us to really see the schools where we have a population.

00:48:53.880 --> 00:49:04.950 Michael Pina: That could thrive in that environment and that that might benefit from it. And I think that's a really good thing. If you haven't seen that if they haven't seen the school and they don't know much about it. Ask them to learn and put them to the test.

00:49:05.640 --> 00:49:07.470 Antonia: I mean, I was pleasantly. Oh, sorry.

00:49:08.970 --> 00:49:16.500 Antonia: I was pleasantly surprised at my, I went to my high school that my daughter attends and I went to their graduation and

00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:32.100 Antonia: You know, there was a speech given by the valedictorian and she was phenomenal. I mean, she just spoke about privilege. He spoke about the culture, the climate and then I sat there, like, Wow, this girl is just powerful and there she was going to Howard Yeah.

00:49:32.160 --> 00:49:33.000 Michael Pina: I mean, why

00:49:33.060 --> 00:49:37.140 Antonia: Adopting girl that I was pleasantly surprised, but I was like, she'll be awesome.

00:49:37.830 --> 00:49:49.530 Antonia: I'm sure it'll, it'll be it would be a great, great fit for her. So I'm looking at your hat. Are those the hats. Of all the places that kids have gotten into or do you just collect baseball hats.

00:49:50.550 --> 00:50:00.270 Michael Pina: It's a little bit of both. I visit colleges and visited probably at least a couple hundred schools over the last four or five years around the world.

00:50:00.600 --> 00:50:08.910 Michael Pina: And I typically will ask students to either bring a hat or I'll pick up a hat from from those places. And this is an all my hat. So I have another wall that has has

00:50:10.710 --> 00:50:20.010 Michael Pina: Across there, but I like to show that you know you can you can go anywhere. And if you if you look there you'll see some Columbia's you'll see some airlines.

00:50:20.580 --> 00:50:36.570 Michael Pina: You'll see a Stanford had up there is my Spelman hat visible. Yep. My Spellman had is visible, you know, you'll see that and it's important. I have, I have one from UConn and and of course it's above Virginia because I'm in Connecticut.

00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:38.490 Antonia: I know you're not ranking them I you didn't

00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:43.680 Antonia: Just go up as you as you have a little HANG OF THEIR the hat goes up.

00:50:44.130 --> 00:50:45.840 Antonia: Let me coordinate the right

00:50:46.500 --> 00:51:00.930 Antonia: Yes, yes. So it's very colorful. It's awesome. Um, how important is it to have that interview. I mean, it did throw us for a loop that a lot of the on call, you know, on campus touring you weren't able to do because I do think

00:51:01.380 --> 00:51:05.100 Antonia: As you said, the, the student and the parent really need to touch and feel

00:51:06.030 --> 00:51:19.830 Antonia: The schools. How important is it now to have an interview some schools, you know, you can't go there personally to do the interview. And there are some I'm assuming that they're going to offer virtual but I haven't quite seen the virtual

00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:30.270 Antonia: interviewing process, but how important do you feel that that plays into that common app and just being, you know, handing in that well rounded application well

00:51:30.900 --> 00:51:41.760 Michael Pina: You know you want to put some points on that application some some edges. He never get a puzzle with total round shape. So you want to put some edge on it. And sometimes I interview can can add that little edge.

00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:49.800 Michael Pina: And the way that I want our students to think about interviews is it's and it's an opportunity to interface and get some of your questions asked.

00:51:50.970 --> 00:51:57.450 Michael Pina: Most of the interviews, they'll tell you that they're not evaluative and a lot of times you'll interview with a with a senior who works in the admissions office.

00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:03.990 Michael Pina: I've had one time in my time as a counselor where I've told a student that they should not interview.

00:52:05.100 --> 00:52:08.070 Antonia: Okay. And why was what, what was the reason behind it, they

00:52:09.120 --> 00:52:09.270 Michael Pina: Did it

00:52:09.510 --> 00:52:11.370 Michael Pina: Because I was not their strength.

00:52:11.850 --> 00:52:12.780 Michael Pina: And I'll leave it at that.

00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:21.180 Michael Pina: But they were they were much stronger if you saw everything that they wrote and they needed the college environment to have that

00:52:21.660 --> 00:52:28.620 Michael Pina: That development to be able to do. They basically froze when when somebody that they didn't know spoke to them. And so the interview didn't work out.

00:52:29.040 --> 00:52:37.950 Michael Pina: At one time and that time they interviewed. Anyway, I was right, but they still did okay because we're able to tell their story and get them to places that really made them better.

00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:44.310 Michael Pina: I think it's important to do, but I don't think people should obsess about it as like a demonstrated interesting

00:52:46.560 --> 00:52:52.770 Antonia: What would you give as the path. I'm not talking about me but the parent in September, who's freaking out about

00:52:53.460 --> 00:53:01.590 Antonia: Where they're going to send their child, have they really did due diligence and looking at all the different schools that are out there for their, their kid to go to

00:53:01.830 --> 00:53:13.410 Antonia: What would you say are the next steps that are more the most important things that parents should should start doing or thinking about to narrow down. Next one. Narrow down that list and then have a realistic expectation. Okay.

00:53:14.130 --> 00:53:15.720 Michael Pina: Box breed person.

00:53:18.540 --> 00:53:27.870 Michael Pina: That that that will get you centered and then I think really trying to be neutral about the data that you're hearing from your counselor.

00:53:28.950 --> 00:53:33.330 Antonia: It was hard to give it a minute. Yeah. Again, I said it again be transparent. That's very hard for

00:53:33.660 --> 00:53:44.400 Michael Pina: Be neutral about the data that you're hearing and then you have to open your mind to that they're they're different. They're different considerations that your child may not be telling you yet.

00:53:45.540 --> 00:53:55.710 Michael Pina: Remember our children often want to please us even when it doesn't seem like it and if they think that you want them to go to X, Y, or Z school and they feel like they should go to a different one.

00:53:56.340 --> 00:54:04.590 Michael Pina: Or they feel like it's a match for what they know. You need to give them the space to tell you that. And to tell you why. Because at the end of the day what we have in common is that

00:54:05.340 --> 00:54:12.690 Michael Pina: We, we love our children. And we really want what's best for them, letting them tell us as well so that it's a partnership is important.

00:54:14.100 --> 00:54:15.030 Michael Pina: That's a big part of it.

00:54:15.390 --> 00:54:16.410 Michael Pina: narrows the list.

00:54:16.740 --> 00:54:24.330 Michael Pina: Sometimes you have to say hey look, you've got too many schools and we're not paying all those application fees. So you need to do a little bit more homework.

00:54:26.160 --> 00:54:27.210 Right, right.

00:54:28.380 --> 00:54:29.430 Antonia: But I do feel

00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:40.500 Antonia: That we're running out of time. Right, I feel I think early decision early actually some of these applications are due by November 1 so I feel like

00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:48.750 Antonia: Kind of robbed of the time against go look at schools over the summer, you know, and now it's it's right around the corner that we have to start

00:54:49.710 --> 00:55:01.020 Antonia: Submitting these and I guess the the NX of knowing. Did I do we have enough. Are we making the right decision, which I'm sure you you talk to parents all the time about that.

00:55:03.060 --> 00:55:06.060 Michael Pina: Make sure that the school that your counsel if says likely

00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:14.340 Michael Pina: Are schools that you feel like makes your child better don't do a likely just to get into school right

00:55:14.730 --> 00:55:23.100 Antonia: And that's hard. That's hard to let that go. Because, you know, as a parent, you want your child to be successful. You want them to be able to you know that they're going somewhere in the fall and then you're

00:55:23.610 --> 00:55:28.620 Antonia: You balance that over. Well, do I do. I think that's the best place for them, but we just don't kind of know

00:55:29.310 --> 00:55:36.180 Michael Pina: Yeah, you have to, you have to have some trust and and and a little bit of faith and cast a little bit broader net

00:55:37.230 --> 00:55:46.680 Michael Pina: I think there's a lot of opportunity for students. The rush for early action. I'm not so sure that that benefits the child if they're not ready to apply.

00:55:47.460 --> 00:56:00.480 Michael Pina: There's a place or a couple places that are that are clear first choices. The early decision I think will still be an advantage and the admissions process. I'm not so sure about the early action because they're, they're still building the models for enrolling their class.

00:56:01.500 --> 00:56:02.550 It's a different time.

00:56:04.350 --> 00:56:14.490 Michael Pina: It's not an easy thing there will be mistakes that you will make and but there will be joy at the end if you keep your eye on the prize, which is your child that you love.

00:56:15.180 --> 00:56:27.150 Antonia: Yes. Well, thank you so much, Michael, for coming on and talking to me about this and sharing your views with our audience that's out there listening or you're watching on Facebook.

00:56:28.140 --> 00:56:41.670 Antonia: Definitely will try to reach out to you again. And I guess for our parents. Yeah, we just have to keep talking like you said, talk to our counselors, make sure that we're getting the we're doing our due diligence and asking those those questions on campus.

00:56:42.870 --> 00:56:49.440 Antonia: It was just so great to see you and have you on the show and I hope you will come back because I know that will be a part two to this.

00:56:50.550 --> 00:56:51.930 Antonia: And that's the acceptance.

00:56:52.980 --> 00:57:00.570 Antonia: Is figuring out when you get accepted. How do you narrow that down. And how do you make that best choice. And I think when we do that again.

00:57:00.930 --> 00:57:06.150 Antonia: Will be further into coven and we'll have a better sense of perhaps we'll have a better sense of what the fall will look like.

00:57:06.450 --> 00:57:13.320 Antonia: For this class. So thank you so much for joining us and for all of you out there will will be back next Thursday at five o'clock.

00:57:13.770 --> 00:57:25.470 Antonia: And so now you know. And please tell your lovely wife that I said hello I will, and I wish the best of you girls that they stay healthy and happy. I guess you said one in California. Once in Colorado. Right.

00:57:25.710 --> 00:57:27.840 Michael Pina: Yeah tour at home, the tender home.

00:57:28.530 --> 00:57:29.640 Antonia: Oh my gosh, okay so

00:57:31.050 --> 00:57:33.210 Antonia: So you have a lot of balls out there that you that you're

00:57:33.270 --> 00:57:34.500 Antonia: That you're working with.

00:57:34.980 --> 00:57:42.030 Antonia: Um, but, again, I mean, these are tough choices and like I think you just hit, hit, it's just our babies are going off and they're getting their independence and

00:57:42.450 --> 00:57:54.210 Antonia: We just want to wish the best for all of them. So thank you for your insights today. Thank you. Alright, so we will see everyone next week, and he can stay happy, healthy and happy six feet away and wear that mask.

00:57:54.600 --> 00:57:54.990 Michael Pina: All right.

00:57:55.650 --> 00:57:57.030 Antonia: I'll talk to you later. Bye.