Not all wounds and scars are to be seen with the naked eye and yet how many of us carry wounds that we attempt to hide from.
Join us as we have a conversation with our guest, Jo Ann Miles, about distortions physically and psychologically as we examine body image and beyond. Everything is meant to be seen; or is it?
Tune in for this philosophical conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.
Georgeann explains the meaning behind the episode title “Invisible Wounds” and introduces the guest of the show, Jo Ann Miles. Georgeann explains her personal experience with having scoliosis and how scoliosis is often invisible, as it isn’t easy to see. Georgeann and Jo Ann explain how they met, and bonded over both having scoliosis. Georgeann explains how with having scoliosis, there are invisible psychological and often physical wounds, as she personally had body image issues growing up with scoliosis. Jo Ann explains her personal experience with her scoliosis and how scoliosis was a taboo when she was growing up, and referred to her scoliosis as various euphemisms until she felt safe saying she had scoliosis. That, she used to refer to her scoliosis in various euphemisms, because of the denial she internalized about having scoliosis.
Georgeann explains how it's difficult for people who do not have scoliosis to understand the physical and psychological pain that people with scoliosis have, and retells a story about a person who didn’t believe she had a handicapped sticker when Georgeann parked in a handicapped spot. Jo Ann explains how she has hid her scoliosis for most of her life, and because of this many of her family members and loved ones believed that she was fine because she presented herself as if she was fine. Georgeann and Jo Ann discuss how scoliosis had wounded them throughout their lives, and how after Jo Ann met Georgeann she had another person to discuss scoliosis with, as she felt isolated because of her scoliosis.
Jo Ann explained how she was a talented dancer, and that dance was both a physical and emotional therapy for her, as she loved to dance and that dancing helped her with her balance and have focus and discipline. This focus and discipline helps her later in life, as Jo Ann now goes to a professional physical therapist, and completes a daily scoliosis exercise regimen. Jo Ann explains her anger she had by having scoliosis, and the anger she felt from the lack of empathy from strangers and family members towards the physical and psychological pain she felt because of the scoliosis. Jo Ann and Georgeann discuss how their scoliosis affected them growing up.
Georgeann explains how everyone has some kind of challenge that they have to deal with, and how if one allows it, these challenges can bring them closer to God, and embrace a depth of themselves that they might not have otherwise. Jo Ann explains that her scoliosis made her more empathic, and that this helped to inform her in teaching, and be a cheerleader for her students. To balance one's ambitions with their limitations. Georgeann explains how Jo Ann’s experience is how she was able to find the stepping stones in what seems like stumbling blocks, and that this is what we are called to do.
00:00:43.530 --> 00:00:51.810 Georgeann Dau: Hi, good evening. I was just playing with the screens here. I'm Dr. George and welcome.
00:00:52.950 --> 00:01:10.320 Georgeann Dau: To a journey through and I'm so grateful that you're here with me tonight and we have a very lovely surprise I have a great guest with me tonight and her name is Joanne miles before I introduce her. I want to
00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:18.510 Georgeann Dau: Wondering if any of you might be wondering why we entitled tonight show the invisible wounding
00:01:19.590 --> 00:01:25.020 Georgeann Dau: And I think I might have mentioned it in one of the other shows that
00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:32.520 Georgeann Dau: I was considered the ugly duckling in my family and then having scoliosis didn't tell
00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:56.160 Georgeann Dau: Because I lived with an invisible wound. Now we all have invisible wounds, because we all walk around with psychic and psychological wounds that no one sees that we try to defend against but what we're going to be looking at tonight is a little different. It's a physical wound that
00:01:57.300 --> 00:02:14.370 Georgeann Dau: turns into a psychic and psychological wound. I would say for most and it certainly was, for me, which I'm going to share a little bit with you, but the incredible woman that I have here with us tonight.
00:02:15.900 --> 00:02:19.800 Georgeann Dau: I've known her for a very very long time. And I'm going to introduce
00:02:21.210 --> 00:02:23.820 Georgeann Dau: And welcome, Joanne miles.
00:02:24.720 --> 00:02:31.560 Jo Ann Miles: Thank you, George and I'm delighted to be here this evening and to have this important discussion with you.
00:02:32.100 --> 00:02:47.970 Georgeann Dau: Well, it's a blessing that you said yes, it's a blessing that you said yes. So we've known each other. I don't know, probably close to 40 years maybe a little less but um I i remember when we first met
00:02:49.140 --> 00:02:58.680 Georgeann Dau: But what was interesting is having scoliosis, it's it's hidden because no one sees it, unless you're in a bathing suit. You're naked and
00:03:00.720 --> 00:03:16.980 Georgeann Dau: I don't know about you, but I generally don't run around naked and because of the because of the scoliosis. I really never went to the beach, but how mine occurred was I was 14 years old and I used to dance. And my mother said, walk towards me. You look crooked.
00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:29.970 Georgeann Dau: She put me in the car, drove me to the doctor and they diagnosed me with scoliosis, which is a deformity of the spine. So there is scoliosis, which is a lateral curve.
00:03:30.660 --> 00:03:54.150 Georgeann Dau: There is ketosis, which is a hunchback. And there is Lord doses doses, which is a sway back. So I had never seen or met anybody with scoliosis. And it's a very because it's hidden. It's a very weird kind of silent pain.
00:03:56.430 --> 00:04:07.620 Georgeann Dau: It's not like having a hand that's deformed as much as that's difficult. No one can see this. So you want it on so many levels and no one really can see it.
00:04:08.940 --> 00:04:14.850 Georgeann Dau: Um, so I was walking down the street one day in Huntington village. I live in Huntington and
00:04:16.380 --> 00:04:27.690 Georgeann Dau: I saw a woman crossing the street. She was an older woman and she had a very bad scoliosis. I had a 68 degree curve which is pretty bad.
00:04:28.710 --> 00:04:42.690 Georgeann Dau: And I saw how crossing the street and I was like oh my gosh, and I went running over to her and I said, Oh my gosh, I just said to ask you, you have scoliosis, don't you, and she said yes. And I was
00:04:43.500 --> 00:04:56.820 Georgeann Dau: 17 at the time she was probably close to 50 and I got into a whole conversation with her. So I was very excited to meet someone with scoliosis. So I thought that
00:04:57.630 --> 00:05:12.450 Georgeann Dau: Anyone that had scoliosis would be happy to meet someone else with scoliosis. It was like a silent private club. So, um, I worked in a clinic at that time and Joanne walked in the clinic.
00:05:13.470 --> 00:05:27.240 Georgeann Dau: And as soon as I saw her, because it was like radar soon as I saw her, I could see that she had scoliosis, nobody else would ever know. But I could tell
00:05:28.650 --> 00:05:30.300 Georgeann Dau: You want to finish the story.
00:05:31.020 --> 00:05:42.060 Jo Ann Miles: I remember the day vividly. I was in my late 20s. It was a hot day in July, and I was wearing a blue son dress sleeveless, and I had my hair pulled up
00:05:42.840 --> 00:06:00.000 Jo Ann Miles: And you greeted me very warmly and you said you have scoliosis. And I was so taken aback, because I had spent my life hiding it. And when you said that to me, my immediate thought was, oh
00:06:00.660 --> 00:06:13.530 Jo Ann Miles: I should have worn my hair down to hide the curvature in my neck. The cervical scoliosis. And the thing was that no one had ever said that to me except for
00:06:14.070 --> 00:06:27.450 Jo Ann Miles: an orthopedist or a physician with a trained eye. And when you said it. I wanted to literally take myself back. I wanted to create distance between us.
00:06:28.020 --> 00:06:53.340 Jo Ann Miles: And as I came to know you, I realized that you were a gift to me you were a gift to me because I was so alone with it. I never had anybody to talk to about it. And in talking to you. I could see myself. I could understand it. And I realized I was not alone in my challenge.
00:06:54.570 --> 00:07:02.940 Georgeann Dau: Beautiful. Yes. And that's one of the thank you so much joy and I'm so glad you're here with me tonight. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to
00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:18.660 Georgeann Dau: Create my my show on the station Sam's incredible and he offers all of us that want to have a show so much opportunity. I'm here very generous man.
00:07:19.260 --> 00:07:27.660 Georgeann Dau: And because there's so much you know as a psychoanalyst spiritual director. There's so much that we all walk around with
00:07:28.530 --> 00:07:44.430 Georgeann Dau: That we want to hide that we feel shameful about I certainly did have been scoliosis. Obviously, that's what Joanne is talking about the incredible chain of having a deformity, and feeling deformed.
00:07:46.380 --> 00:07:54.480 Georgeann Dau: And with the psychological experiences that we all grow up with dysfunction, we can feel deformed.
00:07:54.990 --> 00:08:21.900 Georgeann Dau: And we look to hide so we all walk around with some level of shame, where we want to hide and I wanted to create a station where people just like myself like you were all the same can can hear and listen to others. The struggling so that they you might we might all be able to feel
00:08:23.310 --> 00:08:31.680 Georgeann Dau: Experience in love that we're all the same Julian. Do you want to talk a little bit about your experience because I certainly
00:08:32.760 --> 00:08:35.580 Georgeann Dau: I, I, I lived with so much shame with this.
00:08:36.630 --> 00:08:54.150 Georgeann Dau: You know when you're looking talking about body image, um, you know, as much as you do to hide it. I had the surgery. So I have a 12 inch thing was to run my back and then you know it lasted 30 something years and then I had to have had the surgery, just as best two years.
00:08:55.770 --> 00:09:01.440 Georgeann Dau: Thank God all went well. But it's a very serious surgery. It's very serious and
00:09:02.790 --> 00:09:11.310 Georgeann Dau: Even though I've had the surgery and I'm relatively straight. Um, there's your body image. Once you're in a young person and you have
00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:25.920 Georgeann Dau: A body image challenges. It never leaves you you learn to deal with it and grow up with it, but it's quite challenging. So I'm going to just sit back, Joanne and let you share
00:09:26.940 --> 00:09:33.450 Georgeann Dau: Because there's so many different types of hidden woundings, and I know that with scoliosis, there comes many others.
00:09:35.070 --> 00:09:36.630 Jo Ann Miles: Okay. Thank you, George Jan
00:09:38.130 --> 00:09:51.210 Jo Ann Miles: I think in, you have to look at the time in which the person was growing up in and I was born in the 50s and GREW UP IN THE 50S IN THE 60s AND A LITTLE BIT OF THE 70s until I was, quote unquote, an adult.
00:09:51.930 --> 00:10:12.450 Jo Ann Miles: And back in that time, I think that topics that were difficult that were taboo. We're not discussed, I think as society has evolved. We are much more willing to look at, we consider anomalies, or what's not normal.
00:10:14.310 --> 00:10:22.620 Jo Ann Miles: I just to give you a little bit of my history, my pediatrician diagnosed me at age five with scoliosis.
00:10:23.190 --> 00:10:35.790 Jo Ann Miles: And I was sent to an orthopedic surgeon who confirm the diagnosis and told me that I had what was known as idiopathic have no known origin and my curve was only 11 degrees.
00:10:36.660 --> 00:10:49.170 Jo Ann Miles: But I was under the auspices of this orthopedist all through my childhood all through my teens, until at age 18 I was discharged and declared stable.
00:10:49.770 --> 00:11:04.020 Jo Ann Miles: And I was stable until I wasn't and what was an 11 degree curve morphed into what is now a 62 degree curve right and what I learned was that I did not
00:11:04.530 --> 00:11:15.960 Jo Ann Miles: Have idiopathic scoliosis. I actually had congenital scoliosis, which on my spine didn't form properly in utero. And it was progressing.
00:11:16.740 --> 00:11:36.390 Jo Ann Miles: So I grew up with a lot of shame and denial. I was very good at denial. Um, I, I can remember that I had all kinds of euphemisms for what was wrong with my back when people would say, well, what's wrong with your back because I was
00:11:36.510 --> 00:11:49.980 Jo Ann Miles: feeling quite a bit about my back. And I would say, oh, my back is a mess from my years of ballet dancing. Oh, my back is a mess because I rode horses that was more palatable, in my mind, then using the word scoliosis.
00:11:50.280 --> 00:11:52.830 Georgeann Dau: You can do judo quietly and accomplish
00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:56.340 Georgeann Dau: equestrian and answer if I recall
00:11:57.330 --> 00:12:10.260 Jo Ann Miles: I did and I I you know I I did that I was able to do that, partially because of denial. I, I just decided that I was going to do these things and
00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:18.660 Jo Ann Miles: They were very challenging for me. Um, but I silently suffered. I was not going to give into myself with it.
00:12:19.290 --> 00:12:24.930 Jo Ann Miles: And, um, you know, funny, but about like all of the euphemisms for the term.
00:12:25.530 --> 00:12:35.310 Jo Ann Miles: I started to feel more comfortable about admitting and notice I use the word admitting that I had this physical deformity. As I got older.
00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:44.970 Jo Ann Miles: Because as my friends and my peers around me were aging as well and they now had sports related injuries repetitive stress injuries.
00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:52.470 Jo Ann Miles: Everybody was talking about their herniated discs and their sciatica. And I said, Oh, well I have that too and
00:12:53.130 --> 00:13:10.080 Jo Ann Miles: Then when some friends were diagnosed with adult onset of scoliosis. Now, I felt safe and I could say, Oh, well I have scoliosis. But I, I could not even use the word for for decades for decades. I didn't, I didn't use the word and
00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:13.230 Jo Ann Miles: I think that, you know,
00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:20.850 Jo Ann Miles: There's a lot of denial, you, you, you don't want anybody to see that you're disfigured
00:13:21.300 --> 00:13:30.180 Jo Ann Miles: And tremendous amount of emotional wounding to use the word wounding that goes on with this health issue.
00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:32.820 Georgeann Dau: This one of the most difficult
00:13:33.930 --> 00:13:46.890 Georgeann Dau: Experiences for any child is a rejection and abandonment and certainly most of us have had some flavor of that growing up.
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:54.720 Georgeann Dau: But with scoliosis. It is incredibly scary to think that
00:13:56.130 --> 00:13:58.470 Georgeann Dau: Someone might see
00:13:59.610 --> 00:14:14.580 Georgeann Dau: That we have something going on and reject us. I remember when I started dating, um, I had a boy 17 years old, put his arm around me and say, Oh my gosh, what's the matter with your back.
00:14:15.210 --> 00:14:30.120 Georgeann Dau: I wanted to crawl under the chair. It was really quite something. And those type of things scar, you know, growing up is hard enough. So we're going to continue this too soon as we get back
00:14:31.590 --> 00:14:45.150 Georgeann Dau: We're going to be right back in a couple of minutes. Thank you so much for joining us tonight a journey through. I'm Dr. George and out and we have a special guests with us. Joe and Miles. We'll be right back.
00:17:16.830 --> 00:17:28.860 Georgeann Dau: Hi, welcome back. I'm Dr. George and Joe We're here with our guest tonight, Joanne Miles we're discussing and visible woundings what it means to have
00:17:31.050 --> 00:17:49.440 Georgeann Dau: Challenges that we grow with physically, psychologically images of ourself, not just body image but images of ourselves because we were discussing scoliosis, which is a deformity of the spine, which makes the whole body to form on some level.
00:17:50.760 --> 00:17:57.390 Georgeann Dau: But even though I'm I've gotten mine fixed that the most boy, you know, with scoliosis.
00:17:58.590 --> 00:18:12.060 Georgeann Dau: The rib cage, you know, normally ribs like this, the ribcage on one side crunches down on the other side fans out. So, um, you have what's called a rib pump and
00:18:12.930 --> 00:18:31.230 Georgeann Dau: Even when it's repaired surgically. Um, it has to be repaired surgically eventually if chiropractic doesn't work because you will have compression of your lungs. So it's a medical condition. It's not just a physiological
00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:51.810 Georgeann Dau: Repair at all. And many people, you know, Joanne and I talking about the shame. Um, it's very hard for families to understand. So as we function well and defend against that we have it by doing everything when we do have pain. They don't understand
00:18:53.190 --> 00:19:00.450 Georgeann Dau: And they kind of cast a disbelief over it. How bad can it be
00:19:01.530 --> 00:19:10.290 Georgeann Dau: Because we do such a good job hiding it. And I'll never forget. And I think Joe and you have an experience like this. I had parked in a handicap.
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:20.610 Georgeann Dau: And I got. It's a very funny story. I'm not going to bore you with it, but I was given a handicap sticker and I part and I was in my body cast
00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:29.310 Georgeann Dau: I'm aware body kiss for nine months of zoom my body kissed I could walk after a while, but it was from the growing up.
00:19:30.090 --> 00:19:41.250 Georgeann Dau: To my neck and I had gotten out of the car. And when I had a maternity shirt on. No one could could see that I had anything wrong. So
00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:54.210 Georgeann Dau: A man came up to me and started yelling. Oh my gosh. You should be ashamed of yourself using these these handicapped spots and I just stood there and I pulled my shirt up
00:19:55.170 --> 00:20:11.550 Georgeann Dau: And I had a t shirt on underneath underneath the cast and it was a it was fiberglass and anyway. He was, he didn't know what to make of it. Joe and I think you have similar experience right
00:20:12.210 --> 00:20:32.880 Jo Ann Miles: And you I've had, unfortunately, I've had several experiences and, you know, just to go back to the handicap sticker on. I remember at one point in my late 40s. I wound up at my orthopedic surgeons, because I was having a lot of pain issues and my spine was my curvature was progressing and
00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:44.070 Jo Ann Miles: I told him that even the most simplest of things were becoming challenging for me like going grocery shopping carrying a bag and he told me not to carry anything
00:20:44.070 --> 00:20:49.170 Jo Ann Miles: Heavier heavier than a water bottle, if you carry a bag carried in front of you.
00:20:49.890 --> 00:20:59.040 Jo Ann Miles: In front of your chest, your stomach area. And he, I said to him, I'm beginning to feel like I'm a handicapped person and he said
00:20:59.490 --> 00:21:10.560 Jo Ann Miles: Would you like a handicap sticker. And I was so stunned by that and he said you're eligible for one, and I, I immediately I rejected it. I was actually kind of angry.
00:21:10.890 --> 00:21:19.530 Jo Ann Miles: Then I went home. I thought about it and I got the sticker, but the sticker has led to incidents, for me, and one that I can remember, in particular, which was
00:21:20.430 --> 00:21:33.150 Jo Ann Miles: demoralizing and very diminishing I swim. That's how one of the ways I keep myself fit and I I swim several times a week, and I was going to my local gym.
00:21:33.930 --> 00:21:46.350 Jo Ann Miles: And I had the new handicap sticker and I was carrying a gym bag. Now if you saw me you'd realize I'm carrying it in front of me, like, it's like, it's an infant and um this couple
00:21:47.130 --> 00:21:56.940 Jo Ann Miles: Started following me into the gym yelling at first I didn't realize they were yelling at me and I heard them and they were all look at you.
00:21:57.540 --> 00:22:07.710 Jo Ann Miles: Don't you think you're special. Well, look at that. How dare you take up a handicapped space for somebody else. Look at you. You just walk in here on your own steam.
00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:29.460 Jo Ann Miles: And I was dying a slow silent death inside, but I, I just kept walking. I just kept walking. And, you know, um, it's funny you mentioned family often family doesn't understand. Yes. I think the reaction is you look okay so you must be okay. Now I've spent a lifetime hiding it.
00:22:30.540 --> 00:22:41.070 Jo Ann Miles: Through through my ballet training through my mom Martha Graham monitor dance training through physical therapy. I've spent a lifetime hiding it. And you'd be hard pressed to see it, you would
00:22:41.610 --> 00:23:00.150 Jo Ann Miles: And my husband had a company to me to an appointment with one of the orthopedic surgeons and we were sitting outside the exam room and I was in a gown and they what they had what they did there was, they would take your X rays and clip them up to a metal strip on the wall.
00:23:00.360 --> 00:23:01.500 Jo Ann Miles: When the
00:23:01.590 --> 00:23:10.830 Jo Ann Miles: Door and and there was a person sitting across from me. And there's was up on the door and there was somebody, a little further down the hall and my husband.
00:23:11.580 --> 00:23:23.430 Jo Ann Miles: leaned over to me and he poked me and he looked up and he said, oh my god, look at that poor person's x ray and I said that poor person is your wife.
00:23:23.670 --> 00:23:31.320 Jo Ann Miles: But, and he was just completely specialists. That's how well I could hide it. My, my appearance belied my x ray
00:23:31.950 --> 00:23:44.820 Georgeann Dau: Yes, and you want to hide your body so even with our loved ones we would wear a nice night gown or something. But very rarely allow anyone to see naked body.
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:57.990 Georgeann Dau: Because you see it. You can't hide it. You know, when you have a cervical curve. You can hide it easier than you can. The thoracic curve.
00:23:59.370 --> 00:24:12.180 Georgeann Dau: Which is, you know, between the shoulder blades downward because everything gets talked and twisted and you have a huge rip up and it's really quite I'm
00:24:12.870 --> 00:24:33.000 Georgeann Dau: Quite challenging and quite wounding and I am I wish there was some way to have callers call in, because if there's anyone on you know Facebook that wants to send on the radio show a a text or you want to, you know,
00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:36.120 Georgeann Dau: Contact me through my website.
00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:50.580 Georgeann Dau: www.dr G da u.com Dr. G Dell com I'd be more than happy to help you.
00:24:52.140 --> 00:25:05.760 Georgeann Dau: With this, because no one really talks about scoliosis. No one really thinks about it. Um, it's a again, even in our society, it's kept silent.
00:25:07.260 --> 00:25:19.830 Georgeann Dau: There is a there is a a surgeon out of hospital for special surgery, you did my last surgery but who he trained under was a doctor lanky and
00:25:21.030 --> 00:25:42.060 Georgeann Dau: You cannot believe the cases that this man has worked on mine was 68 degrees curvature. He's worked on curves that were 100 degrees and, you know, a person's head was over on the other side of the room. It is really such a insidious
00:25:44.040 --> 00:25:45.000 Georgeann Dau: Challenging
00:25:46.020 --> 00:25:53.730 Georgeann Dau: Hidden moved and, you know, Joanne was talking about, you know, hiding and looking to defend against
00:25:54.750 --> 00:26:05.160 Georgeann Dau: When I was very young, because they found mine 14 is it starts to really show up when you start growing and I was always very tall that
00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:08.220 Georgeann Dau: I went into modeling.
00:26:10.350 --> 00:26:30.870 Georgeann Dau: To defend against it, you know, no one was going to stop me, Joanne and I have a similar profile. We're not gonna let it stop this, which is great. It's a blessing. But, um, it really is a way to not deal with the wounding and if we can use a woundings well
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:47.040 Georgeann Dau: That's terrific. Because that's what we're called to do with augmenting psycho analytically and we have to come and face where they did boomed us so Joanne, you don't need to talk about this. If you don't want to, but um
00:26:48.690 --> 00:27:00.270 Georgeann Dau: I know you've used the words shamans denial. If we can go back and revisit them and talk maybe a little bit about how do you think scoliosis says room. Did you
00:27:02.100 --> 00:27:11.520 Jo Ann Miles: How has scoliosis wounded me well it's wounded me physically in that I I live with chronic pain.
00:27:12.540 --> 00:27:24.660 Jo Ann Miles: And it's, it has wounded me emotionally because it has it, you know, it has affected my sense of self esteem, um,
00:27:25.950 --> 00:27:33.870 Jo Ann Miles: It wounded me until I met you and another very dear friend of mine who also has it and
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:48.960 Jo Ann Miles: I had no one to talk about. And as I said, the time that I grew up in. You didn't discuss these things they were not discussed, but um and I also think that it
00:27:49.830 --> 00:28:08.970 Jo Ann Miles: It was hard on me because I was a very gifted dancer. I was born with. I was graced with certain gifts for dance and I started my formal ballet training at five and I auditioned for Mr Balanchine when I was 11 and I was accepted to the School of American Ballet.
00:28:09.330 --> 00:28:17.640 Jo Ann Miles: Well, because of my curvature. It helped me back and it affected my stamina and
00:28:19.170 --> 00:28:29.040 Jo Ann Miles: I there's another little to sing that you know at the time that I was studying to be a dancer professionally and in the city, taking class.
00:28:29.550 --> 00:28:38.910 Jo Ann Miles: You know all the dancers were complaining, my foot hurts my hip hurts my this hurts my that and I would just commiserate knowing that I had something much worse.
00:28:40.290 --> 00:28:44.820 Jo Ann Miles: I would pay the piper I would pay the price because I was. It was wicked pain.
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:45.750 Jo Ann Miles: But I
00:28:46.050 --> 00:28:56.280 Jo Ann Miles: I loved it. And I didn't want to be any different than anybody else. And I didn't want to give up my gift, and I felt, you know,
00:28:57.750 --> 00:29:09.420 Jo Ann Miles: I have to say that as a younger person and I've learned to do this. I felt. Why am I given this gift that I'm that's that's being taken away from me. That was very hard for me.
00:29:11.010 --> 00:29:23.700 Georgeann Dau: Well, we're going to take a brief break. And when we come back, um, let us, that's a great place to come back to for us to look at how the wounds presented us with not only um
00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:34.140 Georgeann Dau: You know, I won't miss, but how we use those rooms to build our lives. So we'll be right back. Thanks for joining us tonight. We'll be right back.
00:32:26.790 --> 00:32:44.970 Georgeann Dau: I welcome back. I'm Dr. George and down and you're joining a journey through into awareness and awareness on so many levels. We're here tonight with Joanne miles a friends and fellow wounded person.
00:32:46.950 --> 00:32:59.280 Georgeann Dau: That we're discussing a physical, psychological wounds and spiritual wound and how God has helped us to heal and find a journey through
00:32:59.970 --> 00:33:15.540 Georgeann Dau: You know, Joanne, you were saying a moment ago that you are graced really at birth with incredible Kate capacity to dance, and I was thinking that nothing is wasted with God. And I was thinking, how
00:33:18.150 --> 00:33:23.430 Georgeann Dau: You graced with the ability to dance as a way to really help you
00:33:24.810 --> 00:33:26.370 Georgeann Dau: With the scoliosis.
00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:31.140 Georgeann Dau: Am I off base or is it something maybe you could talk about
00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:42.510 Jo Ann Miles: Nine off base at all, George. And in fact, I would have to say that all my dance training functions as a form of physical therapy and emotional therapy for me.
00:33:43.770 --> 00:33:50.940 Jo Ann Miles: It, it gave me, it helped you know it gave me a sense of balance because my balance was compromised. No question.
00:33:52.560 --> 00:33:58.890 Jo Ann Miles: It gave me. It helped me coordinate the left side of my body that was weaker than the right
00:33:59.430 --> 00:34:11.460 Jo Ann Miles: And it helped me with my overall stability with my skeletal muscular system, but so importantly it gave me incredible focus and discipline.
00:34:11.850 --> 00:34:22.470 Jo Ann Miles: Which was what I needed to to deal with this health issue. And as I said, it also function as a form of emotional therapy because
00:34:22.890 --> 00:34:31.410 Jo Ann Miles: I loved it so much everything about it. I would go into the studio and, you know, there was always accompanied by live pianist.
00:34:31.740 --> 00:34:35.610 Jo Ann Miles: Who would play you know all the ballet music. The music of Chopin, and
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:44.850 Jo Ann Miles: Brahms and Mozart and Bach and all of that. It was all Tchaikovsky. How could I leave at Tchaikovsky. And it was also wonderful used to just listen to the music and
00:34:45.270 --> 00:35:07.320 Jo Ann Miles: And love it, you know. And so that was that was very therapeutic for me it was in it actually an invaluable education that to this day has put me in good stead, because there is an awful lot that I must do to help myself now. I work with a licensed physical therapist. I have a daily
00:35:08.370 --> 00:35:22.140 Jo Ann Miles: I would call it a scoliosis exercise regime, it's specific to scoliosis. And as I mentioned before, I swim and you know I can't just get up and say, Well, I don't feel like doing this today though.
00:35:22.410 --> 00:35:23.280 Georgeann Dau: To do. That's right.
00:35:24.510 --> 00:35:25.050 Georgeann Dau: That's right.
00:35:25.680 --> 00:35:27.930 Georgeann Dau: Absolutely. It's really mandatory.
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:41.070 Georgeann Dau: As I'm prayer is as soul searching is as all the many layers of wellness that go into wholeness.
00:35:42.090 --> 00:35:45.180 Georgeann Dau: As we journey, this life, um,
00:35:47.220 --> 00:35:52.740 Georgeann Dau: Can you think of times, Joanne that you might have felt angry.
00:35:54.390 --> 00:35:57.990 Georgeann Dau: With having a scoliosis.
00:35:58.770 --> 00:36:07.110 Jo Ann Miles: Oh, that's an easy question to answer. Yes, raw gut unbridled anger. That's why I'd have to qualify it
00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:19.200 Jo Ann Miles: As I said, angry that why am I given this when my gift is to be a dancer and a performer. Why am I given this challenge.
00:36:19.650 --> 00:36:27.300 Jo Ann Miles: And I know that even though I commiserated with the my fellow dancers and we're all complaining about how we feel.
00:36:27.870 --> 00:36:37.440 Jo Ann Miles: I knew I was different because I couldn't bounce back the way they did. I would take professional class and then the next day I was on the couch.
00:36:38.070 --> 00:36:49.980 Jo Ann Miles: Or when I was a dance major at NYU, I'd have to take sometimes two classes a day and if i by the evening class. I wasn't really feeling that well. So did I feel angry. Oh, yes.
00:36:50.370 --> 00:37:02.070 Jo Ann Miles: I also felt angry in the lack of understanding and surprisingly it wasn't just from strangers. It was also from family members again. Oh, you look okay so you must be okay.
00:37:02.580 --> 00:37:16.410 Jo Ann Miles: You know you schlepping that bag or you do this or you do that and I and I can't do it, or I, I'll do it. But later you won't see me but I lying down. Right.
00:37:17.130 --> 00:37:20.730 Georgeann Dau: That's right. Yes, the question.
00:37:22.080 --> 00:37:25.350 Georgeann Dau: And you know, I think, you know, people listening.
00:37:26.700 --> 00:37:27.240 Georgeann Dau: And
00:37:28.560 --> 00:37:33.150 Georgeann Dau: You know what they can relate to, um, tonight, um,
00:37:35.010 --> 00:37:55.500 Georgeann Dau: I don't know if a lot of people really are born with, or have developed physical wounds goodness throughout their life, but I know that everyone has psychological wounded this on some level, um, you know, scoliosis offering you know certainly a very
00:37:56.820 --> 00:37:57.750 Georgeann Dau: Obvious
00:37:59.460 --> 00:38:08.190 Georgeann Dau: You know wounding when you talk about it, but because it is so hidden and because you're walking around.
00:38:12.630 --> 00:38:14.160 Georgeann Dau: With something so it
00:38:16.380 --> 00:38:27.270 Georgeann Dau: Is so insidious on so many levels and that makes it even much more difficult, even on a psychoanalytical level that makes it much more difficult.
00:38:27.810 --> 00:38:39.990 Georgeann Dau: You know, I picked up the primer for I did age nine, I don't know what I was doing with it. I don't even know what I thought it meant. Um, but, um, it's interesting because everything I lived through went through.
00:38:41.850 --> 00:38:56.880 Georgeann Dau: In my life. Absolutely. God has used to bring me into the work I I'm in, and to be able to be there with individuals, I'm
00:38:58.140 --> 00:39:11.940 Georgeann Dau: On or really on almost all levels, because in this life and we're just about the same age. We're not 16th in this life is very little that you know I haven't lived through
00:39:14.220 --> 00:39:17.400 Georgeann Dau: On some level, and I think, on some level, Joanne.
00:39:18.510 --> 00:39:20.100 Georgeann Dau: That you could say the same.
00:39:21.030 --> 00:39:24.150 Jo Ann Miles: Yes, absolutely. I know we're just a few months apart.
00:39:24.630 --> 00:39:25.980 Georgeann Dau: Right. Yes. Right.
00:39:26.040 --> 00:39:30.600 Jo Ann Miles: What's the parts. So, you know, we, there's a tremendous understanding there.
00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:36.870 Georgeann Dau: You haven't spoken much about how scoliosis affected you growing up.
00:39:38.700 --> 00:39:41.700 Jo Ann Miles: How did it affect me growing, growing up well.
00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:54.930 Jo Ann Miles: I, I used to dread the annual visits to the orthopedist office. I went every year from the time I was five till the time I was 18 and
00:39:56.010 --> 00:40:03.300 Jo Ann Miles: I have a stack of X rays, which now they know is not really the best thing to be doing to be X raying you
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:03.990 Jo Ann Miles: Absolutely.
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:06.510 Jo Ann Miles: Really, but I have a stack of X rays. I
00:40:06.510 --> 00:40:09.870 Georgeann Dau: Think about the law because it was x ray to level so
00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:26.670 Jo Ann Miles: And I can remember that sitting in the waiting room and seeing all the patients, yet many of them were braced and I would just say to myself, repeatedly
00:40:27.990 --> 00:40:30.840 Jo Ann Miles: I will not let this happen. I will not let this happen.
00:40:31.950 --> 00:40:47.280 Jo Ann Miles: And that's sort of became my mantra. And I remember that I needed to get special shoes so I could have Lyft put in on the weaker side of my body. Yes, and I
00:40:48.180 --> 00:41:00.420 Jo Ann Miles: went to the store and I was horrified at these shoes. They were ugly. They were ugly and I was very vulnerable time in my life, then I must have been about 12 or 13
00:41:00.870 --> 00:41:02.880 Georgeann Dau: It is such an important age.
00:41:03.510 --> 00:41:04.890 Jo Ann Miles: Such an important message.
00:41:05.010 --> 00:41:08.250 Jo Ann Miles: And I was, there's no way that I'm going to wear these.
00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:09.570 Georgeann Dau: But absolutely
00:41:09.660 --> 00:41:12.090 Jo Ann Miles: I would walk out of my house in them.
00:41:13.110 --> 00:41:16.410 Jo Ann Miles: But I wouldn't be wearing them when I got on the school bus.
00:41:16.770 --> 00:41:16.980 Right.
00:41:18.630 --> 00:41:18.930 Georgeann Dau: Yeah.
00:41:20.070 --> 00:41:28.500 Georgeann Dau: Absolutely, absolutely. A lot coming back to me. I'm thinking about it as your as you're talking I'm
00:41:31.110 --> 00:41:41.820 Georgeann Dau: I, I tried. I'm from a young age. That's what brought me into the holistic sciences, which is when I opened the clinic because I, um, you know, I have a
00:41:42.930 --> 00:42:08.910 Georgeann Dau: Second doctorate in it's actually my first in naturopathic medicine because, um, I was going into I was seeking every natural modality to avoid surgery so acupuncture massage and chiropractic. I went to chiropractic for years and years. Um, and of course it did nothing but
00:42:10.620 --> 00:42:35.070 Georgeann Dau: You know, you, you, you try you hope. But, um, it really, it's really a something that feels out of control and they're really not doing much more with it today than they did back then. There's not really much to do with this. Once you know it's still, it's a path that gets unknown and
00:42:36.990 --> 00:42:50.220 Georgeann Dau: I know that they say if you do chiropractic. If you do, I'm osteopathic which I did that most likely you need surgery. I don't know if that's true.
00:42:50.760 --> 00:43:04.170 Georgeann Dau: Because I did all of that and still um I had to go by chose to go through the surgery because it was starting to crush my lung. I was having limited breathing capacity.
00:43:06.030 --> 00:43:18.270 Jo Ann Miles: You know, George. And you mentioned these the spinal surgery. The spinal straightening as much as they can and the fusion. Well, it is a continual debate for me internally.
00:43:18.990 --> 00:43:41.310 Jo Ann Miles: And I, you know, at this stage in my life. I feel like, oh, maybe I should have had it because I progress to 62 degrees. And I do have the wounding the wounding of anxiety and worry will office get worse. What will I be like in another days from now, will I be
00:43:42.660 --> 00:43:51.030 Jo Ann Miles: Very limited in my ability to engage in activities will I be limited locomotor really well I have difficulty walking
00:43:51.930 --> 00:43:59.640 Jo Ann Miles: Um, it's interesting, though, I certainly have consulted with many orthopedic surgeons and just about
00:44:00.270 --> 00:44:13.500 Jo Ann Miles: You know, for everyone that says I really recommend a fusion. I've had some that say to me, I'm, I'm not so sure that that would be the best remedy for you. I don't know that it will get you out of pain.
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:27.810 Jo Ann Miles: Yes, guarantee that it will get you out of pain and there. In some instances, there's no guarantee that you won't be left with neurological damage. This is one of the realities of having a spinal fusion.
00:44:28.140 --> 00:44:49.650 Georgeann Dau: Yes, absolutely, especially where yours is located and we'll take we'll take another look at that. When we come back, we're going to take a brief break, you're here with to Georgia and Joe and Joe and Miles discussing the silent quiet hidden woundings of many different types
00:44:51.240 --> 00:44:55.980 Georgeann Dau: With the journey through. So thank you so much. We'll see you in a minute by you right back.
00:47:17.220 --> 00:47:27.570 Georgeann Dau: Hi, welcome back to a journey through we're here tonight with Joanne miles. So, um, yes, we were talking about the another piece of the
00:47:28.200 --> 00:47:43.770 Georgeann Dau: wounding of what's going to happen. You know, one of the silent wounding that's hidden, you know, for me, and the worry. Um, and, you know, I've always taken very good care of myself as I know you have to
00:47:44.790 --> 00:47:45.180 Georgeann Dau: Is
00:47:46.410 --> 00:47:56.370 Georgeann Dau: If there's any osteoporosis. Oh my gosh. That's all I need is to have any type of bone loss in my spine, because I have the rod and I have the plates there.
00:47:56.880 --> 00:48:09.450 Georgeann Dau: But the last surgery was really helpful because it let me know a lot about how my body was absorbing the calcium and you know how solid my bones were in my spine and my lips.
00:48:09.930 --> 00:48:32.940 Georgeann Dau: And that was very helpful. So we gave me relief. I'm in that way. But again, it is something that we all go through life with something we all go through life with many things we all do. And, you know, having a physical challenge. I know people that have many of them.
00:48:34.410 --> 00:48:53.370 Georgeann Dau: And you go through life with them. There are people that have none. They don't have any physical challenges that they grow up with I'm Joanne, we do. Um, and it's fantastic that they don't. But again, we all have something that we go through life.
00:48:54.750 --> 00:48:55.590 Georgeann Dau: Dealing with
00:48:56.820 --> 00:48:59.280 Georgeann Dau: But what's great about it is
00:49:00.990 --> 00:49:04.560 Georgeann Dau: It brings us closer to God if we allow it.
00:49:05.610 --> 00:49:21.510 Georgeann Dau: If we allow it. God is in it, not creating it. But God has in it in all things and offers us opportunity to embrace a depth of ourselves that we might not other
00:49:22.530 --> 00:49:28.470 Georgeann Dau: have embraced or met and to serve others.
00:49:29.490 --> 00:49:32.100 Georgeann Dau: Real quickly. An example of that.
00:49:33.990 --> 00:49:35.670 Georgeann Dau: After my first surgery.
00:49:36.750 --> 00:49:45.360 Georgeann Dau: I had to learn to walk again. So I was coming back from physical therapy and I was on a table and the table would bring you up.
00:49:46.140 --> 00:49:55.560 Georgeann Dau: And then you walk and then it came back to, and I couldn't walk yet by myself. So it was on the table and I had a couple of days my belt physical therapy.
00:49:56.040 --> 00:50:07.770 Georgeann Dau: And there was a young boy that had younger than I was, at the time I was 28 when I had the first surgery. And when I first came back from the surgery and I was in the bed.
00:50:08.910 --> 00:50:19.140 Georgeann Dau: I couldn't move, not an eighth of an inch for hours and hours per month for a couple of weeks because they had a left. It's a fusion start to take
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:33.390 Georgeann Dau: There was a young boy you came in the room. And I could tell by his face. He was petrified because I was in a lot of pain and he was seeing me in that thing. And I felt terrible about it. It really bothered me.
00:50:34.620 --> 00:50:40.830 Georgeann Dau: He had had the surgery when I was healing. When I was coming back from physical therapy.
00:50:42.060 --> 00:50:48.270 Georgeann Dau: The physical therapy, stop the table, and he said, Would you like to walk into I don't remember his name. Josh, his room.
00:50:48.990 --> 00:50:58.650 Georgeann Dau: And I said, Yes. And I got off the table and I walked in the room and he had just gotten out of surgery. So he was very groggy, but he knew
00:50:59.100 --> 00:51:12.240 Georgeann Dau: who I was and for him to see me walk in that room, his whole face lit up. He's happy because he knew that that would be in in a week or two.
00:51:13.200 --> 00:51:25.050 Georgeann Dau: And that type of thing. It stays with me forever, forever such a blessing. And it is such a blessing to give of yourself such a blessing.
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:36.990 Georgeann Dau: And that's why each and every one of you that joined me here, you know, each week if you do on this radio station. It is such an incredible blessing for me.
00:51:37.620 --> 00:51:50.460 Georgeann Dau: Because I am able to give to you. So thank you. And it's a treasure. So Joanne. Can you share anything of a spiritual nature in your journey.
00:51:52.140 --> 00:51:54.000 Georgeann Dau: Where you yes of course you can.
00:51:55.680 --> 00:51:58.320 Jo Ann Miles: Well, you talked about serving people
00:51:59.460 --> 00:52:02.370 Jo Ann Miles: And I feel that having scoliosis.
00:52:04.080 --> 00:52:11.550 Jo Ann Miles: Made me more empathic and I developed empathy, very early on because I was silently suffering.
00:52:13.080 --> 00:52:15.690 Jo Ann Miles: And it informed me
00:52:16.740 --> 00:52:17.700 Jo Ann Miles: As a teacher,
00:52:18.870 --> 00:52:29.820 Jo Ann Miles: And I have been a teacher. My whole life, my very first job was teaching creative rhythm and movement at age 17 to underprivileged children.
00:52:29.910 --> 00:52:48.090 Jo Ann Miles: That was my first job I ever had. And I went into the field of teaching and I was a dance teacher and a choreographer for probably 25 years and then for 25 years I was an ESL teacher or recently retired and I also taught swimming and lifeguarding
00:52:49.230 --> 00:53:04.800 Jo Ann Miles: And what scoliosis did for me with teaching it really informed my teaching and it and it and it was one of the main tenants of my teaching my belief, you can do
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:28.200 Jo Ann Miles: You can do to be affirmative to be affirmative, and I was always sort of a cheerleader with my students but however to balance it with a recognition of limitations that people have all kinds of limitations, many of which they have no control over.
00:53:30.150 --> 00:53:35.880 Jo Ann Miles: And that was a gift in that way. Scoliosis
00:53:36.270 --> 00:53:37.740 Jo Ann Miles: Having with a gift.
00:53:38.160 --> 00:53:39.750 Jo Ann Miles: Yes question about it.
00:53:40.050 --> 00:54:03.720 Georgeann Dau: Yes. And what a blessing. And what a gift that you are, you know, being able to talk about that you were able to find the gift and we are called to find the gift and the stepping stones in what seems like stumbling blocks. We're called to do that because we all have them. And, you know,
00:54:04.890 --> 00:54:08.490 Georgeann Dau: When what suffering is is when we feel we don't have control.
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:32.910 Georgeann Dau: And when there is something going on inside your head and inside your body that you feel you have no control over. That's really suffering and we can control both to some degree, we certainly can become more aware of our thoughts and that can
00:54:34.260 --> 00:54:47.520 Georgeann Dau: Affect our physiology and we can affect our physiology, which can affect our thoughts. That's where whole ism, is it all is relatable. So, um, we have a couple of minutes.
00:54:48.750 --> 00:55:11.640 Georgeann Dau: Before we're going to end tonight's show goes so fast. And I want to make sure that we have time for prayer. So Joanne, I would like to first just thank you so much for being here and what a blessing you were to so many all the time. Is there a takeaway that you'd like our listeners to
00:55:12.780 --> 00:55:15.120 Georgeann Dau: Take away from your, your
00:55:16.140 --> 00:55:17.610 Georgeann Dau: Your presence with us tonight.
00:55:18.660 --> 00:55:22.290 Jo Ann Miles: Thank you, George and I would, I would like to say the following.
00:55:23.460 --> 00:55:46.560 Jo Ann Miles: People come to in your life like you have come into my life and a few of my other friends who have scoliosis, and whatever the common denominator is these people are gifs because it's going to help you to understand and you're not going to be, you're not going to feel so alone in life.
00:55:47.580 --> 00:55:55.920 Jo Ann Miles: And that everyone, everyone is facing some kind of a challenge. It reminds me of that famous expression. Be kind.
00:55:57.090 --> 00:56:07.560 Jo Ann Miles: To everyone for everyone is facing some kind of a challenge and might not be able to see it, but it's there. Yeah. THANK YOU. Joanne.
00:56:08.040 --> 00:56:12.780 Georgeann Dau: Absolutely. You're a treasure and let us end in prayer tonight.
00:56:14.310 --> 00:56:17.700 Georgeann Dau: So I just wanted to mention to all of you that
00:56:19.350 --> 00:56:24.330 Georgeann Dau: We are going to there won't be any live shows
00:56:25.560 --> 00:56:27.240 Georgeann Dau: After my show tonight.
00:56:28.770 --> 00:56:40.350 Georgeann Dau: For the next week or two for holiday. I won't be back on until January 4 but I just wanted to end tonight wish each and every one of you a blessing.
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:51.870 Georgeann Dau: And a new year filled with love and cheer and for those of us that celebrate Christmas. I'd like to just have us pray that we can recognize
00:56:52.410 --> 00:57:05.670 Georgeann Dau: That the coming of Christ be born in our hearts. Again, and in the collective consciousness of humanity, to bring Christ in the world involves a willingness to struggle.
00:57:06.930 --> 00:57:14.700 Georgeann Dau: through life, whatever it might be that we need to struggle through to learn to love.
00:57:16.230 --> 00:57:20.610 Georgeann Dau: So love is what we're all about. So I want to thank each of you again.
00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:30.330 Georgeann Dau: And God bless you. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah. Happy New Year to you all. God bless. And thank you. Good night.