The Mind Behind Leadership

Thursday, October 15, 2020
Facebook Live Video from 2020/10/15 - A Punch In The Face of Leadership


2020/10/15 - A Punch In The Face of Leadership

[NEW EPISODE] A Punch In The Face of Leadership

This week we have Christine Sachs who is influential, engaging and have that extra something. The Mind Behind Leadership gets below the surface of how she has done it and Why. What’s worked and maybe what hasn’t.

Open & honest insights along with some fun...

Tune in for this insightful conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Graham introduces the show and describes how they welcome leaders from all different areas and backgrounds.  Today they Graham welcomes Christine Sachs extensive experience in coaching top executives.  We start the segment with Christine describing what she does and what the coaching engagement entails.  Christine further outlines how she coaches executives to speak in a powerful yet compassionate way and how the stigma of having a coach being a weakness has diminished.  They close this segment speaking about how Christina started her career in coaching.  

Segment 2

This segment starts with Graham asking Christine’s definition of the word “bossy” as that word was used to describe her by a friend.  Christine dives into how she continues to work on herself as well and improve her abilities as a coach.  Graham asks how Christine handles a client who may have an opposing view to herself.  They further talk about how Christine approaches a client based on their gender and if it is different depending on if they are male, female. etc.  In conclusion Christine discusses how coaches are viewed in the business world or how they should be viewed if they don’t have direct experience of being a CEO or building a business etc. 

Segment 3

To start this segment Graham opens the discussion on women in the workforce and the changes that have happened.  They further dive into the difference in the changes in workforce due to COVID vs. the financial crisis in 2008.  Christine discusses the relationship building in management vs. the authoritarian view which has become less and less.  They close talking about Christine’s approach to coaching vs. training coaches.  

Segment 4

Graham asks Christine what are some of the biggest challenges she has with her coaching position. They end the show with Graham asking Christine whether she would do anything differently with her coaching career.


00:00:30.390 --> 00:00:35.220 Graham Dobbin: Good evening and welcome to the mind behind leadership live here on talk radio dot NYC.

00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:43.320 Graham Dobbin: My name is Graham Dobbin and weekly. We have a show, which brings you leaders from all different areas.

00:00:43.800 --> 00:00:52.920 Graham Dobbin: And really care what it means to be a leader, what it means to be an influencer leadership comes in all different shapes, sizes and styles. There's no one size fits all.

00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:59.760 Graham Dobbin: Over the past few weeks, we've heard from coaches of Olympic athletes heads of international business organizations.

00:01:00.030 --> 00:01:09.600 Graham Dobbin: The CEO of a nonprofit impacting lives in Glasgow London Dublin in New York. And just a couple of weeks ago with the CEO and president of Dale Carnegie

00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:17.040 Graham Dobbin: Joe Hart, who spoke about how being both a leader and developing leaders and his influence in that

00:01:17.520 --> 00:01:27.360 Graham Dobbin: Today we have someone who not only has an enviable track record as a leader themselves. She's also helping to develop the next level of leadership coaches.

00:01:27.780 --> 00:01:40.170 Graham Dobbin: And tonight. Our guest is Christine sacks, who is an executive coach with an extensive experience and Christina is one of the few master certified coaches accredited through the ice f

00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:53.760 Graham Dobbin: And in addition to have time as a coach Christine has had senior leadership experience across advertising, marketing art and design consumer products financial services, health pharmaceuticals biotech Internet technology.

00:01:54.570 --> 00:01:58.980 Graham Dobbin: And nonprofit. I don't think I've missed anything else. So Christine's clients.

00:01:59.670 --> 00:02:12.090 Graham Dobbin: Range from CEOs and founders and sea levels or who work for privately held companies publicly traded for profit VC back private equity back. There's a whole mix and there. We're going to explore everything

00:02:12.420 --> 00:02:16.620 Graham Dobbin: But here's the thing. This is when I know it's right. To do this, virtually as you can see

00:02:17.070 --> 00:02:26.970 Graham Dobbin: We're in different spaces because Christine has been described as the most loving punch to the face that you would wish your best friend would give you so I'm kind of glad we got distance between us.

00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:37.710 Graham Dobbin: I'm she works with individuals who are the smartest people but needs support outside of their intellectual progress. CHRISTINE, GOOD EVENING.

00:02:38.010 --> 00:02:38.580 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And evening.

00:02:38.940 --> 00:02:42.750 Graham Dobbin: I don't need a punch in the face. I just want you to know that for from the star.

00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:44.520 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You don't need it yet.

00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:46.920 Graham Dobbin: Either yet. Thank you. So

00:02:48.630 --> 00:02:52.020 Graham Dobbin: That's very kindly. We've got an hour to go. So there's lots of time.

00:02:52.260 --> 00:02:52.920 Exactly.

00:02:54.000 --> 00:03:07.680 Graham Dobbin: I'm Christy, tell us what I hear the words executive coach been been thrown around Los you've obviously got on. You're one of the few that's a master certified coach with ACF. Tell me, what do you do

00:03:09.750 --> 00:03:11.130 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Man, I hate this question.

00:03:11.940 --> 00:03:14.700 Graham Dobbin: I thought you might. I thought I'd start like some like

00:03:14.850 --> 00:03:19.800 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Yeah. Great, thanks. Um, I see that you're already got your fisticuffs up

00:03:21.030 --> 00:03:27.930 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So I think there's the straight definition of coach, as defined by the International Coach Federation.

00:03:29.250 --> 00:03:37.710 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And you know that's someone who engages in a partnership to bring out the clients brilliance. We don't advise. We don't mentor, but it's really about

00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:52.740 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Asking the questions and looking the places that your clients don't typically look so as to create an invented future what I say that I do and through experiences. I do that but it's often the the individuals that I work with.

00:03:53.850 --> 00:03:57.810 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): It's trite expression, but it's lonely at the top so often.

00:03:59.100 --> 00:04:10.230 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The coaching engagement isn't also, you know, most of the people I work with are pretty skilled at creating and inventing things. I mean, you don't become Member of the C suite. If you're just a

00:04:11.370 --> 00:04:12.570 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Little doobie.

00:04:14.010 --> 00:04:26.940 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So there is already a skill set of invention and innovation. So what the work that I do often centers on a just being a confidential safe space that people can

00:04:27.990 --> 00:04:45.780 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Be human you say what they need to say vent express explore the crazy idea that you've been maybe a little too crazy for whatever project that we're working on. And also have an intensely nuanced conversation about the things that get in the way.

00:04:46.830 --> 00:04:55.710 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because these are very smart people, they're pretty. Most of them are pretty self aware and the opportunity to partner with someone like

00:04:56.730 --> 00:04:57.900 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Myself, is that

00:04:59.190 --> 00:05:10.680 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): We really dig into the crevices those places where either they really don't want to look. Didn't know they needed to look and or refuse to look so that's where the punch in the face comes in.

00:05:12.450 --> 00:05:12.900 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So,

00:05:13.170 --> 00:05:14.490 Graham Dobbin: oracles of physical

00:05:15.030 --> 00:05:15.870 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): metaphorical

00:05:15.900 --> 00:05:24.240 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Especially now especially now let's a little questionable when we're in person. No jokes jokes. No, no, client has been harmed in the making of this

00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:32.970 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Um, no. But when I say that it's really, you know, I think that people have become very polite.

00:05:35.700 --> 00:05:38.040 Graham Dobbin: Don't you mean to be very polite.

00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:39.690 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): you're British. You know what I mean.

00:05:44.400 --> 00:05:46.920 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Yes, good news in the sense that

00:05:49.140 --> 00:05:49.890 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The

00:05:52.320 --> 00:06:00.690 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Straightforward direct conversation. The art of it. I think is lost because people are afraid of lots of things hurting people's feelings.

00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:18.060 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): saying the wrong thing. Not looking a particular way. So the ability and the, the ability to have a direct conversation from power and compassion is an art form. And I think it's getting that people don't necessarily practice for lots of reasons.

00:06:19.530 --> 00:06:29.550 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So I think that one of the fun parts of what I do with people in the work that I do with people is that we get to practice that in the moment, so that people build their

00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:48.900 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Chops around being able to see and hear feedback, in a way, in a, in a way that can be uncomfortable and also be able to give it from a place that's compassionate, as well as powerful, you know, it's sort of the Bridgewater Ray Dalio principles thing. But with a little bit more humanity.

00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:59.880 Graham Dobbin: It never fails to interest me that. When really all different types of other types of performance when we think about sports performance. We would never dream.

00:07:00.390 --> 00:07:12.270 Graham Dobbin: Of trying to perform any significant level without having a culture of buyer side. Yeah. When we're in business, or even going through life. We think we can do all ourselves, why do you think that is

00:07:19.140 --> 00:07:22.350 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Well, there's lots of reasons i think i think

00:07:23.700 --> 00:07:24.420 Just, just well

00:07:26.580 --> 00:07:27.000 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Let's see.

00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:29.700 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): What you say

00:07:29.910 --> 00:07:30.900 Graham Dobbin: Your opinion is good.

00:07:31.200 --> 00:07:32.460 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Okay, um,

00:07:37.170 --> 00:07:37.500 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I

00:07:38.880 --> 00:07:46.500 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think that one part of it is the probably the same reason that men don't like to ask for directions when they're lost driving somewhere.

00:07:48.750 --> 00:07:50.370 Graham Dobbin: For generalization, but go on.

00:07:51.090 --> 00:07:52.170 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Well, I think that

00:07:53.190 --> 00:07:58.350 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Yes, it was a generalization, but there's, um, there's, I think.

00:08:00.390 --> 00:08:09.450 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): All from the best intentions that CEOs C suite leaders, feel the pressure, the need to be the strong one to have the direction

00:08:10.050 --> 00:08:20.040 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Now, if they're male. There's all sorts of things, wrapped up in what is a man if they're female. There's all sorts of things, wrapped up and being able to compete in that scene is weak. If they're non binary

00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:23.430 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, there's all sorts of other things wrapped up in that, but

00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:39.180 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Generally, it's the idea that I and I think I actually think that this is changing. It's actually changed quite a bit in the nine years that I've been coaching that the stigma around having a coach has decreased quite a bit. And that coaching is seen as an asset and a

00:08:41.190 --> 00:08:42.960 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): boon to

00:08:44.520 --> 00:08:54.090 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Most executives and the teams and there's still a couple of holdouts around being seen as it being seen as a weakness or only for remedial cases.

00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:04.080 Graham Dobbin: I'm just interested. I'm curious how you got to this point, could you hide executive positions in in a number of different areas.

00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:04.860 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): As well now.

00:09:05.550 --> 00:09:18.930 Graham Dobbin: One Breath and all you were involved in different in different markets different industries and I get that, um, how did you get to this point. What was the brought on the change for you to to to do this.

00:09:19.710 --> 00:09:24.150 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Um, well, so how I got into coaching is that I

00:09:25.980 --> 00:09:40.080 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I had my daughter was 17 months old only daughter took us a lot of work to have her. And I remember sitting there thinking, okay, we're out of the getting used to having a child back to work for a year now more

00:09:41.130 --> 00:09:54.240 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): What do I do, how do I chart out what's next. Because my life I've gotten back to some sort of normality. I was older parents, you know, so I was really looking down the barrel of, like, I got to make my make my last couple of acquisition years count.

00:09:55.980 --> 00:10:00.180 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And a friend of mine was just kind of talking, although total complaining

00:10:01.680 --> 00:10:05.730 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And she said, well, why don't you become a coach or bossy. I'd like

00:10:08.190 --> 00:10:10.410 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): We really going to have a we can have this conversation new

00:10:11.580 --> 00:10:23.940 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): But good friend and I thought well maybe she sees something that I don't because I didn't even know what coaching was I'd never had a therapist. I'd never done the landmark Forum, which is how most people get introduced to personal development.

00:10:24.630 --> 00:10:36.210 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Personal development work never done any of it. And so I was like okay Googled wrote to a couple coach training programs, only one wrote me back. Go accomplishment coaching.

00:10:37.380 --> 00:10:48.870 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And from there on, in it was it was a magic was born. But realistically, I started the program, the coach training program. I still didn't know if I wanted to be a coach, but I remember thinking in that first

00:10:49.290 --> 00:11:03.210 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Program module that I was like, have I want to be a coach, but whatever magic secret sauce thing that they're doing. I want to do that because it really did seem like magic. And, you know, now that I lead the program. I'm like, oh, it's not magic, it's just what we do.

00:11:05.310 --> 00:11:15.120 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): But it was, it wasn't until about maybe a quarter of the way to the program that was like, oh, I want to be a coach, and then I put the I put I put a step on the gas and it was gangbusters from there.

00:11:16.020 --> 00:11:17.610 Graham Dobbin: I'm before you did that you mentioned.

00:11:19.020 --> 00:11:27.120 Graham Dobbin: About creating a safe space for people to express themselves to look at to look at things from different angles that that's kind of where your skill lies.

00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:41.820 Graham Dobbin: Especially with the senior leadership. Um, did you have that safe space before you became a court. So when you were out there, the big bad world and just, you know, regular working. Did you have that safe space yourself right

00:11:41.850 --> 00:11:50.400 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Well, so some of the industry is I'm some of the issues that you named I didn't actually work at night. Not quite sure how they got onto the list. I know that I sent it to you. I think it was probably

00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:52.200 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Something else but

00:11:54.090 --> 00:11:54.780 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I

00:11:57.330 --> 00:11:58.830 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Did not

00:12:00.870 --> 00:12:06.660 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): But I also didn't know that I could ask for it. Yeah, right. I think that there's a lot of

00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:17.580 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Again, not no judgment around it. But I think there's a lot of company cultures that have a sink or swim mentality.

00:12:19.380 --> 00:12:26.190 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And so there's a there's a couple of years where yes, you get some training, but it's really like can you survive. Can you actually

00:12:28.410 --> 00:12:36.630 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Can you actually do the work, or do perform at a significant level at which point you can kind of get invited into the club. Right.

00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:48.000 Graham Dobbin: So if you had that looking back and looking at what you create for others if you'd had out when you were working, what do you think would you think the impact would have been for you.

00:12:48.690 --> 00:12:54.150 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Um, I would have progressed differently in my positions.

00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:59.490 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I probably also would have asked for more

00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:10.020 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think that I suffered from a lot of things that are traditionally female oriented, which is like not knowing you're worth not asking for what you're worth

00:13:11.280 --> 00:13:12.330 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Waiting to be told.

00:13:14.190 --> 00:13:21.420 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): X y AMP Z about your role and what you can do. And I think I would have because I have no problem now. And I really didn't have any problems then

00:13:21.870 --> 00:13:29.550 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): But I didn't have the, you know, coming from a my family was middle class, but there definitely wasn't a professional aspect to it.

00:13:29.880 --> 00:13:41.790 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Which no harm no foul, but there was no sense of what what it was to climb the corporate ladder so to have that particular guidance and grow in that particular way would have been

00:13:43.170 --> 00:13:52.530 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Would have been interesting. You know, maybe I still would have become a coach, because I would have been so inspired by the growth, but it definitely would have created a different path likely

00:13:53.640 --> 00:14:01.230 Graham Dobbin: When we come back from the break. I'm a wonderful man. You mentioned the word bossy one to one, understand that a little bit more. And also just

00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:02.850 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Outside of the gender context.

00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:11.400 Graham Dobbin: Well, interesting about when we talk about the agenda context, just about how you work with you mentioned, men, women in non binary just how they how

00:14:11.820 --> 00:14:21.780 Graham Dobbin: They approach may be different. You're listening to the main behind leadership is medium Dobbin we're speaking with Christine Sachs is thirsty lions live in New York, and we'll be back right after these messages.

00:16:39.660 --> 00:16:50.580 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back. The mind behind leadership, we're speaking with Christine Sachs tonight. Christine sacks, who has been called bossy, I believe, on more than one occasion, talk to me about that.

00:16:52.020 --> 00:16:54.240 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I don't know that there's anything else just said.

00:16:55.680 --> 00:17:02.760 Graham Dobbin: There's conflicting views on it, whether it could be positive or on not so positive. What's your thoughts.

00:17:04.080 --> 00:17:06.540 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Well, I think it depends on

00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:09.510 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Whether the speaker has a penis or not.

00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:14.610 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I you know I don't

00:17:15.870 --> 00:17:26.940 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I don't carry any negative connotation around the word bossy. And in fact, I asked my husband to bring me during halfway through, because it's going to be 730 and it's time for a couple

00:17:28.050 --> 00:17:32.010 Graham Dobbin: Absolutely. As you wouldn't know what in the final 30 minutes or so happy. Oh really.

00:17:32.130 --> 00:17:34.200 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): That's really yeah i mean but

00:17:36.210 --> 00:17:37.620 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): But no, I think that

00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:53.310 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know words by themselves are, they're just they're just words. And it's the power that we infuse the words which is, you know, a lot of times when we're coaching people we look at language, not just at

00:17:54.180 --> 00:18:07.770 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): What people are saying that the energy that's infused and the intention behind the word. So if somebody calls me boss as a complaint, I would like, I will take that compliment. Thank you. If somebody says it as an insult. I'll be like, Okay, let's talk about that so

00:18:08.970 --> 00:18:09.570 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So,

00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:14.250 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): But to the actual meat of your question, do I have

00:18:15.330 --> 00:18:16.590 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think that

00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:23.340 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think that other people have more challenges with my being bossy than I do.

00:18:24.450 --> 00:18:25.200 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I remember

00:18:26.370 --> 00:18:37.050 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The International Coach Federation has a global conference every year and they'd had it and then there was on hiatus for about a decade or five years five and five years or decades and they brought it back.

00:18:37.410 --> 00:18:44.130 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And they had solicited speaker applications. And so I applied and I was accepted to speak at the global conference in 2018

00:18:46.020 --> 00:18:47.370 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So this was to train

00:18:48.990 --> 00:18:52.950 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think they were like 80,000 attendees. We didn't get any thousand in my talk, but

00:18:54.150 --> 00:19:05.580 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): My partner and I were there we were addressing a pretty packed room around business coaching and a lot of the feedback was well she seems to think highly of herself.

00:19:07.350 --> 00:19:18.060 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, of course, because it's not a mess. I was like, really. And I talked to my partner who who said to me, well, you have to remember people don't always like a strong woman.

00:19:19.170 --> 00:19:22.590 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): It calls up things in them so

00:19:23.760 --> 00:19:26.700 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, it's always, it was a it was a great reminder that

00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:43.050 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I don't have to accept other people's meanings as a true reflection of who I am and there's probably something to look at and consider in terms of how I show up. And what I talked about, you know, making my husband, bring me stuff, you know, things like that, but

00:19:43.350 --> 00:19:44.340 Graham Dobbin: Delighted to do

00:19:44.910 --> 00:19:55.230 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Oh it, you know. Yes, I have friends who have seen that like this hour, where he will often come in. We don't have a tray yet. I'm going to buy him a tray so you can bring it into their style.

00:19:56.100 --> 00:19:57.660 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And a hat and a half.

00:19:57.900 --> 00:19:58.530 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Will have little

00:19:58.560 --> 00:19:59.340 Graham Dobbin: Different. It's a hat.

00:19:59.790 --> 00:20:00.180 Graham Dobbin: Tell them.

00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:00.570 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Tell it

00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:01.500 Would

00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:08.220 Graham Dobbin: It's interesting because hearing the word bossy. When you're in front of an audience of ice f

00:20:09.810 --> 00:20:17.610 Graham Dobbin: Generally coaches who probably should understand the intent of words or how people are coming across I'm

00:20:18.930 --> 00:20:25.740 Graham Dobbin: Question was, that disappointing that people would meet me see like that when they should know better, and should be looking beyond the surface.

00:20:28.650 --> 00:20:30.330 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Was a disappointing, of course.

00:20:31.770 --> 00:20:32.580 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And

00:20:34.710 --> 00:20:40.560 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, I think that there are, I mean, this is the thing when you asked me, What did you do as a coach. I started laughing because

00:20:41.580 --> 00:20:52.050 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know as an unread i mean i think you know this talking to a lot of coaches on your show coaching is unregulated. So a lot of times people who call themselves COACHES AREN'T. ACTUALLY coaches.

00:20:53.370 --> 00:21:02.940 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): They may have some coaching skills or they may not actually be coaches at all. And they just call themselves that. So it was a great reminder that not everybody who calls themselves a coach.

00:21:03.870 --> 00:21:14.010 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Is a coach, but also, like, for me, in particular, an important aspect of my practice is the personal work that I take on to constantly elevate my own

00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:31.740 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): skill set my own personal transformation that actually allows me to be a better coach for people. I mean, philosophically, it's just a decision. It's a choice. But, you know, for me, I believe, I believe that if I'm not constantly doing the work on myself.

00:21:32.850 --> 00:21:38.820 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): It becomes a wall or a blind spot for work with clients if I don't continually unearth those things. I mean,

00:21:40.350 --> 00:21:51.600 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The, you know, social justice racial justice event that we're in right it's a calling forward into consistently doing the work. It's not like one day you know racist.

00:21:52.440 --> 00:22:01.320 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The degree to which are actually continually doing the work and uncovering your bias, even as a person of color, even if someone who has been doing the work like

00:22:01.590 --> 00:22:17.400 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): A calling for to remind yourself that it's important to keep doing the work, because you will find things you will always find things when you look or if you look, and that's valuable because the more you learn, the more you expand as a human being, like, expand as a coach and

00:22:18.510 --> 00:22:21.810 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): What I can provide other people

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:28.080 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Grows and I just you know Aaron my title is bossy.

00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:40.380 Graham Dobbin: I'm curious, you say, you'll find things when you look at one of your things is to look when you're when you've got claim you again. So if you ever kind of discovered things, you know, you were talking about.

00:22:42.150 --> 00:22:51.150 Graham Dobbin: right to choose the gender or race or something like that. You've uncovered anything with a client that you thought, wow, I didn't expect to see that I don't like it.

00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.260 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): With the client revealed revealed, or both.

00:22:55.860 --> 00:22:57.300 Graham Dobbin: I with with with the client.

00:23:02.730 --> 00:23:13.170 Graham Dobbin: Yes. How did you manage to deal with that. Then when it's something that for you is, is opposing maybe an opposing view.

00:23:13.860 --> 00:23:30.090 Graham Dobbin: Is maybe something that you wouldn't hold to yourself and you see it is detrimental to others. But let's face it for coaches, but we have to we have to create that safe space, you mentioned, we have to develop everything about is about nurturing you know in lots of different ways. Yeah.

00:23:30.540 --> 00:23:32.040 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think it's the

00:23:33.300 --> 00:23:37.320 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And this is I think the thing that we get to remind ourselves consistently.

00:23:39.750 --> 00:23:45.030 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The question really lies, and do you believe that it's actually possible for people to change. Okay.

00:23:47.100 --> 00:23:51.540 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): We all say it. We all say it. And then we come across that client that's like

00:23:53.040 --> 00:23:53.970 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I know about this one.

00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.970 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because I think that's something that makes a difference like

00:23:58.620 --> 00:24:03.960 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): If we relate to where someone is is okay and with some gaps.

00:24:05.040 --> 00:24:16.920 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): It means that if they want to transform that outdated thought or offensive opinion, we get to work on it and I get to relate to that person as

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:33.840 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Capable ready will end up changing their mind and growing as a human being. And if they don't, well, we get to talk about that as well. So what really grounds me is the belief, the core belief that people can change people are willing to change and people are scared.

00:24:35.040 --> 00:24:38.640 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): If I relate to it is fear versus Deke headedness

00:24:40.530 --> 00:24:46.080 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Then, you know, it gives me a place to come from as coach where I can say a bit more neutral and

00:24:49.560 --> 00:24:55.770 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Be in a non judgmental space rather somebody yells a slur at me from the street. And I'm like,

00:24:57.630 --> 00:24:58.050 Okay.

00:25:00.090 --> 00:25:00.540 Graham Dobbin: I'm

00:25:01.170 --> 00:25:02.580 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, I also

00:25:02.760 --> 00:25:03.900 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I will also say like, Oh,

00:25:05.580 --> 00:25:15.810 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I also believe that if they're doing it with me. And we get to work it out. I'm doing good work because that means I won't go to somebody, because I can walk away.

00:25:17.580 --> 00:25:21.390 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And I'm not hurt because I'm gonna take it personally. It's not about me. I'm very clear. It's not about me.

00:25:22.350 --> 00:25:30.600 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So we can have that interchange, and we can have that brave conversation. That means that people that report into this person can't walk away.

00:25:31.110 --> 00:25:40.800 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Don't feel power or empowered in that relationship. Yeah, it means that might do differently for them. So I feel very motivated by being able to be kind of that.

00:25:42.210 --> 00:25:48.060 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Stand for the people that I've not met, and make a difference in their lives. When I come across somebody wakes up.

00:25:49.140 --> 00:26:03.360 Graham Dobbin: I'm you mentioned working with with with main ribbon non binary. Is it a different approach is. I mean, almost mentally when you go into a situation. Are you thinking right away. I need to approach it like this or

00:26:04.560 --> 00:26:06.240 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Now, that's a great question. Um,

00:26:07.830 --> 00:26:09.210 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, I think that

00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:19.530 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think that has a human being, we want to say yes, because we want a lot of find the patterns we want to like lies and make those shortcuts. So we can be super efficient.

00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:26.970 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): But, but in the end at the at the core levels.

00:26:27.990 --> 00:26:36.060 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): It's kind of it doesn't actually matter, the stuff that creates them the stuff that has

00:26:39.780 --> 00:26:49.590 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): led them to make the choices and believe the things we did. That's all different and I relate to that I relate to that stuff differently depending on what it is, but the initial approach.

00:26:51.330 --> 00:26:54.540 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Is not it's not necessarily different

00:26:56.490 --> 00:26:56.910 Graham Dobbin: I'm

00:26:59.910 --> 00:27:01.920 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Probably say that, and tomorrow, it'll be really different. When I

00:27:04.530 --> 00:27:06.270 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Come back. Oh, crap. It was different.

00:27:07.650 --> 00:27:18.540 Graham Dobbin: I'm, again, I'm thinking just when we, when we talk about coaching and and we have Carmen bought on last week who cleans Olympic athletes world athletes and

00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:27.960 Graham Dobbin: Fought MCS its kind of accepted again in sport. They. Yeah. And you've seen bolts coach has not running as quickly as you seen boy has

00:27:29.340 --> 00:27:44.100 Graham Dobbin: Um, but what makes a coach credible for a business successful business leader, someone who, on the outside has had created a really successful business a successful company. What makes a coach credible when he have not been through it.

00:27:49.170 --> 00:27:50.940 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): It's slightly controversial.

00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.310 Graham Dobbin: doesn't surprise me for some reason Christie good so

00:27:56.370 --> 00:27:58.620 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): My experience is that CEOs one

00:27:58.620 --> 00:28:00.360 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Other CEOs as their

00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:08.910 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): As their coach or certain professions specifically attorneys. One other attorneys as a coach, because they think they need

00:28:09.390 --> 00:28:14.550 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): That subject matter expertise or the environment to really get who they are.

00:28:15.330 --> 00:28:30.780 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The challenge for me in that is that yes, they have a lot of subject matter expertise and yes they have been there but not every CEO turn coach has the pluses plasticity, or the adaptability of thinking they have what worked for them.

00:28:31.800 --> 00:28:39.810 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So, in my mind, what makes a credible coach is the courage to reflect the thing in the face of a formidable personality.

00:28:40.860 --> 00:28:48.120 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because in order to be a successful CEO a successful athlete successful anyone you got to have a pretty strong will and you don't take

00:28:49.020 --> 00:28:52.650 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Stupid opinions from anybody. Right. You have to really be incredibly direct

00:28:53.520 --> 00:29:01.200 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So as a coach, being able to both recognize the strength of that, but also stand in the face of it, so that

00:29:01.560 --> 00:29:11.100 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): When you can see them acting out of alignment what they say they want. We're making a left turn and doing something counter to the things that are most important to them.

00:29:11.970 --> 00:29:20.250 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Or, you know, chasing that squirrel down the road, you have to like you get to be the one to say the thing that maybe their team isn't saying to them.

00:29:21.780 --> 00:29:23.070 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So I think

00:29:24.300 --> 00:29:29.250 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The ability to connect and have that rapport and the ability to stand in the face of formidable well

00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:40.680 Graham Dobbin: We're just about to go for a break. Once we come back from the break. I know that you're active on social media. And one of the things that jumped out was I see that as a compliment.

00:29:42.180 --> 00:29:45.900 Graham Dobbin: One of the things that jumped out this week, which just kind of the changing workforce.

00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:51.660 Graham Dobbin: So I'm really curious about what that does for businesses and what that does for business leaders, we'll talk about that after the break.

00:29:51.900 --> 00:30:00.450 Graham Dobbin: My name is Graham Dobbin we're speaking with Christine Sachs, you're listening to the mind behind leadership life here on talk radio dot NYC. We'll be back after these

00:32:27.690 --> 00:32:35.100 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back, you're listening to the mind behind leadership will with Christine sacks and Christina, you just be brought into refreshments.

00:32:35.850 --> 00:32:37.140 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Oh yes, I have.

00:32:38.280 --> 00:32:40.500 Graham Dobbin: You make I'm sitting here in my green tea.

00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:43.560 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Manhattan.

00:32:43.860 --> 00:32:46.950 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): With probably high West with anchor. Okay.

00:32:48.510 --> 00:33:05.310 Graham Dobbin: So somebody answers might get really interesting. The second half of the show. Um, I mentioned something you posted caught my eye, this week about the change in the workforce and almost and you know we're, we're, we're not showing up to close to a million women.

00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:07.440 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): In America or

00:33:08.520 --> 00:33:16.350 Graham Dobbin: In the US have left of the boat to leave your workforce. Wow. What's the potential impact their

00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:33.630 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Generation generations generations of families and women. And the thing is, is if I, if I remember the study correctly. It's professional women, we're not even talking about women in the non professional career lines because I studies only generally looking professionals.

00:33:35.280 --> 00:33:35.790 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know,

00:33:36.990 --> 00:33:47.640 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I don't, I don't know that we have a way to measure it yet because there's so many sort of there's like GDP stuff. But then there's also the

00:33:48.990 --> 00:34:04.980 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Legacy impact of women re entering the workforce children that the lack of dueling comes with families and then the role modeling for children and what it means for other girls who are seeing that you can't actually have a career in a family.

00:34:06.150 --> 00:34:18.000 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Know some of those women you know some of the women who are leaving. Are you have ailing parents and set the majority of children in the constraints of trying to school from home and carry a full time job is just, it's a lot

00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:25.950 Graham Dobbin: Um, do you see that there's a difference from women, leaving the workforce as opposed to men.

00:34:27.150 --> 00:34:30.540 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Traditionally women carry the domestic and emotional labor of family.

00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:47.370 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Traditionally, they are you know what 67 cents on the dollar. So if, if, if it's a dual family if it's a dual income family, of course, the person who's making less money is going to be the one to sacrifice.

00:34:49.410 --> 00:35:02.310 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So while yes there are sometimes men who leave and I don't want to discount like the the actual hardships of coven and families everywhere. It is traditionally women who are carrying that low

00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:06.660 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Good play in the in the blast radius.

00:35:08.190 --> 00:35:20.550 Graham Dobbin: It's it's cute because people making lifestyle decisions know much more than than any time I suppose since probably 2008 when changes forced upon us well.

00:35:20.850 --> 00:35:25.290 Graham Dobbin: Then we then kind of make decisions with a different with a different view. Yeah.

00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:29.850 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I mean, it's interesting because in 2008 now. I wasn't a coach, then, but I was working

00:35:31.470 --> 00:35:38.880 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And the experience was more of a when the financial collapse in there and the mortgage collapse happened. It was more of a an experience of

00:35:40.020 --> 00:35:43.290 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Calling into account like am I spending my time doing the right thing.

00:35:44.430 --> 00:35:46.500 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): This doesn't have the same

00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:51.360 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Conversation. It's more of. I can't. I literally can't

00:35:51.690 --> 00:35:52.020 Graham Dobbin: Yeah.

00:35:52.590 --> 00:36:05.880 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, so it's it's it's kind of apples to oranges, where one felt at least like there was, you may have lost your job, but there was choice available because there's still school, there are still other things. Yeah. Whereas here, the demands are so

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:28.530 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Ongoing when we don't a given how covered and the really fun and all of the all of the things from a stimulus bill to schooling to mask policies to economic decline, like all of it. We don't really see an end. And so it's

00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:37.170 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Not just the women who live in the workforce. It's all of those managers, then, and all of those leaders who feel now like they've not done enough

00:36:38.220 --> 00:36:47.220 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Or if they don't care what do we do with all the spots that are now open and the work that needs to get done. You know, so it's it's got

00:36:49.500 --> 00:36:54.750 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): it reverberates too many layers. It's not just about this individual families that are leaving the workforce.

00:36:55.560 --> 00:37:06.120 Graham Dobbin: I exclude you've touched on kind of where my head was going next, because we spoke about the impact and individuals. I'm curious on what's the impact of what on the workplace.

00:37:06.690 --> 00:37:19.080 Graham Dobbin: With so many with so many women leaving it for. I mean, you're, you're working with leaders all the time, kind of, what does it bring. What's the positives. They bring. What's the, what's that dimension and they will pull the last

00:37:19.740 --> 00:37:21.300 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, I think that it's

00:37:23.790 --> 00:37:28.710 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Through my work at chief, which is a women's professional community, you know, these are

00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:39.870 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, people who are executives their vice presidents and higher and these are the these are the people who are making the decisions and working with people leaving the workforce. They themselves are leaving the workforce.

00:37:42.090 --> 00:37:44.130 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The experience is

00:37:46.740 --> 00:37:48.630 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): A psychological toll.

00:37:50.040 --> 00:37:52.260 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Of not feeling like they

00:37:54.810 --> 00:37:55.530 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Can help

00:37:57.570 --> 00:37:58.770 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because I think in the end.

00:38:00.210 --> 00:38:01.320 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Right, like be

00:38:02.790 --> 00:38:03.450 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The

00:38:07.110 --> 00:38:10.830 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): It wasn't always this way. But there's a real swing away from the authoritarian

00:38:11.910 --> 00:38:18.840 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Pair rental model of management which or something. Just, just do it right to this more relational empathetic.

00:38:19.590 --> 00:38:21.330 Graham Dobbin: Leadership Moxie maybe

00:38:27.990 --> 00:38:28.710 Graham Dobbin: I'm just asking.

00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:49.860 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): But this relational model of leadership right means that managers and leaders are more invested in their teams and more investment will get to know their people more. And so the experience of not being able to truly not feeling like they're able to support or truly

00:38:51.570 --> 00:39:00.870 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Come up with a soft, because that's what people are paid for their paid for coming up with the sob. And here they are in a position where they can't come up with a song, it throws a lot of identity into question.

00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:05.640 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Right, so I think it's, you know, I think it's just it's

00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:13.530 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): It's a real challenge because like you then then comes the question, right. I want to care for my employees, but I need to get all this stuff done.

00:39:14.730 --> 00:39:23.370 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And then you're you feel stretch between, you know, two really important

00:39:24.990 --> 00:39:28.560 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Axes being a human being and caring about my people.

00:39:29.790 --> 00:39:34.740 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Doing the job that actually pays these people. Yeah, right. So that's, you know,

00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:43.860 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And one of the things that I often look at with with the leaders that I that I coach is the degree to which

00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:50.100 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): They are so quick to look for the solve versus actually simply be with the person

00:39:51.120 --> 00:39:57.810 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because none of us individually are going to solve code or the economic downturn.

00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:06.870 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Or a stimulus know we're, we're not. So where can we affect the most difference. Where can we make

00:40:07.830 --> 00:40:15.570 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The change that becomes right if all of us are making the same change that becomes a moment and and a tidal wave. So

00:40:16.560 --> 00:40:26.730 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I try to bring them away from the intellectual conversation about how they can't do something because of circumstance circumstance circumstance to what they can do the difference that can make in their

00:40:28.350 --> 00:40:34.920 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): In their putting their spheres of influence, because I think the thing is, you know, for for leaders.

00:40:35.970 --> 00:40:39.360 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): We don't really know the difference that we're making for people

00:40:40.680 --> 00:40:44.160 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because will make a difference for a person and we won't hear for it for years.

00:40:45.210 --> 00:40:58.560 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So can I focus on making a difference, even if I don't get the feedback that's normal for me to get can I stay clear and true to the leadership and the leader that I say that I am in the midst of crisis.

00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:06.000 Graham Dobbin: It's interesting you say that there's a there's a book by Mitch Albom called the five people you meet in heaven.

00:41:06.240 --> 00:41:08.550 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Oh yeah, I haven't read it. But yeah, I know.

00:41:08.580 --> 00:41:14.280 Graham Dobbin: Yeah, and it's one of those that you wouldn't expect to be kind of give you an insight into leadership, but it does

00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:25.980 Graham Dobbin: Yeah, because we have an influence at so many different levels without even realizing it, and the amount of time. I'm sure you must get especially working with people who are developing themselves.

00:41:27.510 --> 00:41:34.860 Graham Dobbin: And I'm moving. I'm curious about what how that's different. You working with leaders, but you're also developing coaches to develop leaders.

00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:36.930 Graham Dobbin: Which is a very different journey.

00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:37.590 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And it's

00:41:37.980 --> 00:41:45.870 Graham Dobbin: Quite know I worry about having influence. One thing that was said one thing that we've done this had a positive or negative impact.

00:41:46.590 --> 00:41:59.190 Graham Dobbin: And whether we've mentored or not. So that's a great insight 111 actually to the Member for for for any leaders, especially know how we how we deal with things when the pressures coming in.

00:41:59.730 --> 00:42:05.760 Graham Dobbin: So how is it different than when you're working with an executive someone who's got a large

00:42:06.240 --> 00:42:14.610 Graham Dobbin: Payroll who's you've got all these pressures, trying to get the business going but look after the staff that working virtually you've got all that going on, which is one thing.

00:42:15.270 --> 00:42:25.290 Graham Dobbin: And on the other side, you've got people who are desperately keen to help others, but maybe don't have quite the skills at this stage, how do you, how do you manage those

00:42:28.680 --> 00:42:31.740 Graham Dobbin: So you've got you've got people coming through wanting to be coaches wanting

00:42:31.830 --> 00:42:33.390 Graham Dobbin: To get your position as false

00:42:33.450 --> 00:42:33.810 Yeah.

00:42:37.620 --> 00:42:38.820 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): What do you actually asking me

00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:50.850 Graham Dobbin: So I'm asking what is how does your approach change when you're dealing with people who've got me on a mature leadership position, but people who want to help make sure

00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:55.620 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): That it's it's apples and oranges. It's more apples and horses.

00:42:56.640 --> 00:43:02.490 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Right. One is, I'm a coach, right, the other. I'm a trainer.

00:43:04.230 --> 00:43:16.530 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So the training is a lot more directive and there are some, you know, we train as a coach trainer. I actually call myself a coach trainer. There's always the experience and

00:43:18.180 --> 00:43:33.810 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Origin of the training coming from coach versus do it this way. This isn't the right way. You know, you know, where as a coach, we drop a piece of brilliance in and let let it unfold, because the really interesting thing about training coaches, is that

00:43:35.790 --> 00:43:37.410 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I don't actually want you to do it my way.

00:43:39.300 --> 00:43:43.470 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Right, all my coach trainees who are listening to this.

00:43:44.670 --> 00:43:46.200 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I don't actually want you to do it my way.

00:43:47.190 --> 00:43:48.480 Graham Dobbin: And you're saying no. You tell me.

00:43:49.290 --> 00:43:50.580 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Right, exactly. I can, I can just

00:43:50.580 --> 00:44:05.280 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Hear them. No, it's it's it's not actually about doing it the way that I do and it's like, because for Coach training. I'm keenly interested in what they will do with the training.

00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:14.070 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): How they'll absorb it, what they'll bring forward and how they will adapt it in their own voice, and their own vision because I grow from that.

00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:23.070 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because they'll do something totally different that I would never have thought of which is super great for me because I don't have all the

00:44:23.670 --> 00:44:35.010 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): If I have all the good ideas. I am in the wrong room. So for them to take something that I've trained really own it and create something new with it is like that's

00:44:36.810 --> 00:44:48.930 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So the reason I became a coach trainer is one I was super grateful to my coach training program accomplishment coaching for what they gave me because I was not. It was not predictable that I wouldn't have this life.

00:44:50.160 --> 00:44:55.290 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I came from a middle class upbringing, which is like, you know, standard job for health insurance and the pension. Yeah.

00:44:56.520 --> 00:45:00.180 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Which is days are very questionable even in a nine to five.

00:45:01.230 --> 00:45:11.910 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So it was not predictable that I could start my own business make much more than I was making in my day job, which was, which was nice. It was definitely

00:45:13.170 --> 00:45:14.820 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Higher than the American average

00:45:16.620 --> 00:45:32.850 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): But then also to be happy doing it. Is there a lot of coaches out there that are trying to build their business and work the business that aren't happy doing it. I love doing this. I love the way that I have created my business. And when I build it. So the ability to

00:45:35.190 --> 00:45:47.610 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Transfer that experienced other people is such a gift, but then also to get the learning and training for seeing what they do with all of this. You're like, that's also incredibly invigorating

00:45:48.690 --> 00:45:49.500 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know I

00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:55.980 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I have this terrible habit of changing careers every five years.

00:45:57.690 --> 00:46:06.540 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Right. Like, you can actually set your costs to it. It's just one of the things I actually interrupted as much. I've been a coach now for almost nine years. I mean, nine years in February.

00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:23.550 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So like I've, I've had the breakthrough that allows me to stay with what I'm doing for a long enough time, but it's because I think I'm finally in a place where a have had the personal transformation breakthroughs, but also be really love what I do well.

00:46:23.910 --> 00:46:33.000 Graham Dobbin: After the break we're going to dig in a little bit more about why you love what you do and what challenges you have maybe a hard on that journey in the last nine years.

00:46:33.450 --> 00:46:33.960 Graham Dobbin: I mean, I'm

00:46:35.580 --> 00:46:36.630 Graham Dobbin: Sorry, what was that

00:46:37.050 --> 00:46:38.400 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I need more booze for that question.

00:46:39.510 --> 00:46:46.590 Graham Dobbin: You've got time. I, my name is Graham, who are listening, you're listening. We're listening. You're listening to the mind behind leadership will be back right after these

00:46:49.980 --> 00:46:50.970 Graham Dobbin: talk radio and

00:46:53.130 --> 00:46:54.300 Educate and

00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:21.120 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back, we're talking to Christine Sachs tonight on the mind behind leadership, Christine. Um, so tell me what's the biggest challenges you've had more drink. I've seen it. I've watched you do it.

00:49:22.140 --> 00:49:22.380 Graham Dobbin: Well,

00:49:23.310 --> 00:49:24.150 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Still a lot left

00:49:24.660 --> 00:49:26.820 Graham Dobbin: Somewhere. That looks like a big glass.

00:49:28.260 --> 00:49:38.430 Graham Dobbin: Um, what challenges do you come across passion. I mean you you're helping other people overcome their challenges. What do you come from, it's just the two of us talking. No one else is listening.

00:49:39.630 --> 00:49:40.050 Graham Dobbin: To me.

00:49:40.140 --> 00:49:41.190 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Oh, OK. OK. Sure.

00:49:42.600 --> 00:49:43.080 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Um,

00:49:44.610 --> 00:49:47.160 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, I think the for me.

00:49:50.820 --> 00:49:55.740 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I'm reliable to always to look like I'm reliable, I will always when I'm

00:49:56.970 --> 00:50:03.990 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Confronted or triggered in some way. I'm always reliable to look, I think the challenges, sometimes you go to places that

00:50:05.550 --> 00:50:19.560 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You just don't want to, you know, and I think that I think like anyone else. I mean, I'm not unlike my clients. They're just some places that like you, like, I know. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. That feel like a closed door.

00:50:21.300 --> 00:50:28.590 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): was funny, I was talking to a colleague of mine about, do you know the the if it's a fable or story about the lady in the tiger.

00:50:30.390 --> 00:50:32.310 Please elaborate, just in case we don't

00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:34.710 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Have

00:50:35.850 --> 00:50:45.960 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Young man lead into a room and says there's a real full of 110 doors or 100 doors or something behind one door is a lady and behind the other door or another door is tiger pick

00:50:46.590 --> 00:50:58.320 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Right, except that when we're doing the work. The deep personal work. It feels like every door has a tiger and there's no lace. Right. And so I think that

00:51:03.330 --> 00:51:06.660 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think that one of the traps of

00:51:09.180 --> 00:51:22.920 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Like therapy or coaching or any of the personal work is that when we we think that if we discover something that that completely cancels out all of the good things about us. They were just a bad person, because we have this particular thing about us.

00:51:25.080 --> 00:51:35.220 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because we're as a humans as a species were or much more fascinated and interested in what how we're screwed up than we are, however, like doing great stuff.

00:51:35.850 --> 00:51:37.410 Graham Dobbin: So anything that is

00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:45.870 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Well, because caveman days it was much smarter to remember where the saber tooth tiger was and remember where the Bush for the berries was

00:51:46.290 --> 00:51:53.460 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So to keep on the lookout and to protect ourselves from the danger, even if it's embedded in our mind. I always use this metaphor.

00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:05.310 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, I don't do horror films, but there are a lot of people who do horror films they like the feeling of being scared. The thing is, is like your body doesn't know the difference between real danger and fake data.

00:52:06.930 --> 00:52:16.140 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So, you know, our mind as much as we like to think we're intellectual and we can think beyond our basic reactions. Can't so

00:52:17.580 --> 00:52:25.590 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So, not unlike a horror movie like our body feel some things and it didn't it despite what our mind says the body reacts and so

00:52:26.580 --> 00:52:37.650 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You know, your body has a reaction to some old patterning and influences what you think about yourself and then all of a sudden you're on a totally different train of thought, even though, intellectually, you know, you're not that

00:52:38.730 --> 00:52:40.380 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): To for a 14 year old.

00:52:41.520 --> 00:52:49.830 Graham Dobbin: I'm doesn't fit a lot of scary things happen over the, over the last few months. Um, have you

00:52:50.910 --> 00:52:53.400 Graham Dobbin: I'm kind of wondering how leaders react to that though.

00:52:54.630 --> 00:53:01.860 Graham Dobbin: When they've got caught. Does that help when we've got that instinctive reaction or potentially fear or other things.

00:53:02.160 --> 00:53:02.790 Graham Dobbin: Where it's

00:53:02.850 --> 00:53:06.630 Graham Dobbin: outside influences are coming in, we can't control them, but

00:53:07.560 --> 00:53:12.060 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think it depends on the degree to which people are

00:53:13.740 --> 00:53:14.310 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Well,

00:53:15.930 --> 00:53:27.270 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So if your base wellness is off. This is where this is where the light of coaching and therapy gets very tricky. Yeah.

00:53:28.350 --> 00:53:34.770 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So if I if I believe that it's an experience and not for anything. Not that you know

00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:45.780 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I think that there are given the isolation given social justice unrest, given all of like just seeing black bodies being

00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:59.490 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Her and murdered and all of that. That's a lot of trauma. If your base wellness. Isn't that a point at which can be with all of it. Like, that's a therapeutic thing like you need extra support which

00:53:59.970 --> 00:54:12.570 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): You may be well generally. But with all of it coming at once the extra supportive therapy may be, this may be time to to enact and activate that

00:54:13.590 --> 00:54:18.840 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Um, you know, with leaders, regardless of their background.

00:54:20.610 --> 00:54:21.300 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The

00:54:22.560 --> 00:54:33.090 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): The opportunity with a coach is the degree to which you the degree to which the relationship can allow for

00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:39.720 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Growth through the trauma of growth through the challenge.

00:54:41.040 --> 00:54:44.730 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because our goal, our focus is on that future goal.

00:54:46.020 --> 00:55:02.700 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): And can we, and what do you need to arm yourself to support yourself with that allows for you to continue and a whole and not even necessarily. It's not even necessarily doing but hold the line on that.

00:55:04.470 --> 00:55:08.100 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Hold the line on that future that you envision that, you know, and that you're committed to

00:55:09.750 --> 00:55:11.340 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Because it's very easy to like

00:55:12.030 --> 00:55:15.510 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Biggie believe that that vision is not possible in the middle of endemic

00:55:16.350 --> 00:55:31.440 Graham Dobbin: We've, we've only got a couple of minutes. Like, I'm really curious on. Is there anything that you would do that would have your last nine years that you would do differently as a coach and is developing other people that might speed up what you created for you are no

00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:44.550 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): Trick question. No, I think that I would not be where I am. If I hadn't had all of the experiences I had over the past nine years, good and bad, bad

00:55:45.600 --> 00:56:03.270 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): So no, I wouldn't do it differently. And I, for the first time in my life have really relished and cherished how everything has gone, which I think is unusual, like I definitely don't my, my friend who recommended that I become a coach, she called me the Queen of Darkness.

00:56:04.350 --> 00:56:18.000 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): I used to be that person who would read poetry and weep in my kitchen because it was so beautiful. And I was so pretentious and and truly connected to my soul, but to really add But realistically, to be able to

00:56:19.290 --> 00:56:24.450 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): See all of it as worthwhile. Like, I think that's the biggest transformation for me.

00:56:25.380 --> 00:56:32.910 Graham Dobbin: Christine sex is been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. I feel as if I've got away unscathed, and

00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:34.920 Christine Sachs, MCC (she/her): We have, we have four minutes.

00:56:35.820 --> 00:56:38.220 Graham Dobbin: Hopefully, hopefully, we don't. We've got about 30 so

00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:45.390 Graham Dobbin: Hopefully we can we can continue this conversation. A lot of time thank you tonight, also to Sam Leibovitz

00:56:45.690 --> 00:56:56.190 Graham Dobbin: For who's the producer researcher Rebecca Maxwell promotions Mike messenger and for the introduction. Jason Roselle Christine sites in a pleasure. Thank you.

00:56:56.760 --> 00:56:57.180 Thank you.

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