Employment Law Today

Tuesday, September 22, 2020
Facebook Live Video from 2020/09/22 - Leading Your Employees During The Pandemic


2020/09/22 - Leading Your Employees During The Pandemic

[PREMIERE] Leading Your Employees During The Pandemic

As we enter a new phase of this pandemic, many employers need their employees back at their job site, office, or work location for part or all of the work week. However, many businesses and companies are facing a strange new landscape: there are new requirements for a COVID-19 safe workplace, along with potential conflicts with employees who cite to COVID-19 concerns in requesting to stay home from the office, store, restaurant, or establishment where they are needed.

What is the most productive mindset that a manager or employer ought to have when addressing employee disputes or conflicts that relate to COVID-19? What are some effective methods and tools that employers and managers can use to successfully unify their workforce around compliance with COVID-19 safety regulations? How ought an employer or manager best handle challenging interactions with employees who refuse to come to work, citing concerns around COVID-19 as their reason?

Join me, Eric Sarver, and my guest, Taryn Abrahams MFT, SHRM-CP, a Corporate Behavioral Specialist / H.R. Consultant, as we answer these questions and discuss the best leadership traits, mentality, and methods of communication that employers can use when interacting with COVID-19 related employee disputes or issues. We will discuss the challenges from both an H.R. perspective and a legal liability perspective.

Tune in for this informative conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Eric Sarver introduces the guest of the show, Taryn Abrahams. The conversation begins with a reflection on the shifting sphere for business owners during COVID-19. Taryn gives her ideas on what a good employer should be and advice to business owners how they should go about keeping their employees during the pandemic. They hammer home the importance of creating a safe environment and keeping discourse between leaders and workers.

Segment 2

The conversation continues with how much liberty should be given to the employee and the shifting mindset required for leadership in 2020. Taryn explains the concept of ‘emotional intelligence’ and how it applies to modern day leadership. She urges being mindful of your behavior around employees and the creation of a flexible workplace.

Segment 3

Taryn talks redefining our ideas of success and how those older ideas can damage the workplace today. They talk about the problem with exercising too much control and how they may damage employee relationships. Taryn touches on trust, productivity, empathy and refining one’s expectations from a worker. The conversation also steers towards the current state of the education system and how the changes have impacted those workers. Taryn drops the term ‘overcommunication’ as another piece of advice for leaders to focus on, also emphasizing that communication is a two-way street.

Segment 4

Taryn talks about establishing a strong mission statement and using it as a blueprint for the culture you want at your workplace. Taryn calls conflict resolution and de-escalation essential skills for leaders dealing with employees during the pandemic, once again stressing the importance of empathy and also briefly touching on mental health. The show closes with Eric giving out Taryn’s contact information for listeners.


00:00:39.390 --> 00:00:54.150 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Good evening. Welcome to the debut of my weekly talk radio show employment law today. I'm Eric soccer and employment law business law attorney and founder of the law firm, the Law Offices of Eric and solder.

00:00:54.630 --> 00:01:04.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And my firm specializes in employment law labor long business law for small to mid sized business owners companies and professionals in all areas of

00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:14.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: various industries. And so I had the inspiration to create this weekly radio show. Talk about some of the issues that business owners are facing.

00:01:14.520 --> 00:01:23.970 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Today, particularly around covert 19 and the pandemic and how that affects you as a business owner in terms of new employment laws needs to be followed.

00:01:24.420 --> 00:01:35.490 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Various regulations around the workplace and how you go about hiring and firing furloughing and all kinds of other aspects of your business in the modern world.

00:01:36.330 --> 00:01:49.860 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And so with that in mind, I'd like to take a moment, say that the show employment law today will be on Tuesday nights from 5pm to 6pm Eastern Standard Time on talk radio dot NYC.

00:01:50.250 --> 00:02:04.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Will be live streaming on Facebook as well. And I thought, since its debut and premiere of the show and take a moment before introducing my first guest ever and I will talk a little bit about the three main goals of employment law today.

00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:12.030 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So the first goal of the show is really an informational one want by information updates to you.

00:02:12.450 --> 00:02:24.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The viewer and listener on what's going on with employment law these days. What are some new laws and challenges that you as a business owner might be facing when it comes to corporate 19 Miller place.

00:02:25.050 --> 00:02:33.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And then the second aspect of the show and second goal, but I hope to accomplish is an inspirational one, which is really involves having

00:02:34.410 --> 00:02:41.910 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Guests on my show who can provide these sources people in HR people in accounting or tax legal like myself.

00:02:42.540 --> 00:02:52.530 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Or CFO folks that can basically assist you, the business owner and knowing what you need to do to comply with today's complex business workplace.

00:02:53.100 --> 00:03:01.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And lastly, I hope the show will be a source of inspiration and motivation and so I'll be featuring guest business owners on the show.

00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:14.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Who have meant to be successful to survive and thrive during the pandemic and many of them got there by taking help from others and taking advice and feedback from people who are trained at

00:03:15.420 --> 00:03:28.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Areas employment law. And so with those goals in mind and with today's show, entitled leading your employees during the pandemic mindsets and methods for successful workforce.

00:03:29.010 --> 00:03:39.630 Eric Sarver, Esq.: It's my pleasure and privilege to welcome Taryn Abraham's to the show. I'll give a little bit of the background. The first one to say Taryn. Welcome to the show. And thank you for being our very first guest.

00:03:40.110 --> 00:03:55.500 Taryn Abrahams: Thank you so much, Eric, I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to be here to be a part of your kickoff. I have nothing but confidence that you're going to do good work. You're going to provide valuable insights and I'm just so grateful to be your first guest. Thank you.

00:03:56.610 --> 00:04:04.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You're welcome. My pleasure. Well, that's the goal of course and I'm really happy to have you on the show because the guests and I'll, I'll say a little bit about you. Current is finding things

00:04:05.670 --> 00:04:10.470 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Great. And you know intern for a bit and I'll say that turn Abraham's

00:04:11.430 --> 00:04:23.970 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Is a workplace strategist and corporate behavioral specialist, and a, an employee engagement specialist and Tara and you'll find out what that means, say when he gets here and speak about the issues will be discussing

00:04:24.570 --> 00:04:31.620 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And Taryn founded a business called empower behavioral services. It's been around since leave early 2016

00:04:32.070 --> 00:04:42.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And it's a full service consulting and training company that helps businesses to strengthen interpersonal connection to relations employer, employee morale.

00:04:42.780 --> 00:04:53.400 Eric Sarver, Esq.: boosting productivity having those hard, especially with employees on the work site and let's turn our focus and I'll read a little bit herons bio if I can if I

00:04:54.720 --> 00:05:06.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Turn around, is a corporate behavioral and human interaction expert who helps companies to implemented behavioral Best Practices to Improve workplace interpersonal relations.

00:05:07.140 --> 00:05:12.150 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think I may have said that. But I'll reinforce it and to holistically strengthen the corporate culture.

00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:28.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: She leverages her experience as a psychotherapist, and she has the integrated suite of workshops and trainings, as well as coaching and collaborative services that help workplaces to thrive and to nurture employee loyalty and ambassadorship

00:05:29.970 --> 00:05:31.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: That Sound about right time.

00:05:31.230 --> 00:05:33.210 Taryn Abrahams: That that hits it right on the head. Thank you.

00:05:34.950 --> 00:05:40.110 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Great. Wonderful. So why don't we kick it off and begin tonight show

00:05:41.790 --> 00:05:55.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: As I mentioned, when we were speaking that I want to touch upon issues that business owners are facing these days I'm actually saying not only around coven 19 because some important label issues are showing themselves these days.

00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:07.590 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But it seems to me that the pandemic and the closing and reopening has created a real need for clarity around employer, employee issues.

00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:15.120 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And the two issues that struck me, perhaps, and really were speaking about tonight for being number one.

00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:26.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Employees who refuse to come back to work. What do you do, you're the business owner and employer when you're the manager company and you've got some employees, you just refuse to come back.

00:06:27.510 --> 00:06:39.570 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And in the cat in that group, you'll find maybe three categories, you'll find employees who don't want to come back and those sites have specific concerns about the workplace, maybe being dangerous not

00:06:40.110 --> 00:06:50.580 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Over 19 safer friendly are unhealthy or they may they may complain if it's not safe workplace that their employer. The employer are not doing enough to system.

00:06:51.720 --> 00:07:02.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The second group of employees in this category might be folks who their issue with coming back as nothing to do with your workplace, but it's an internal issue, it may be has to do with their

00:07:03.330 --> 00:07:08.820 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Previous thing condition or health concern or they have a small child at home. What disabled.

00:07:09.210 --> 00:07:17.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Family member that stuck at home with that when they need to take care of them. So then the third category of employees who might refuse to come in.

00:07:17.580 --> 00:07:32.100 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Might be the ones that are just find more vague generic concerns. So it's not so much. Hey boss. I've got bronchitis, and I'm going to pre existing condition class or it's not a question of, Hey boss. I heard rumors in the water cooler that they're

00:07:32.820 --> 00:07:38.100 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Having mass. It's and I don't really like what I'm seeing. And this makes me very nervous. And I don't want to come in.

00:07:39.300 --> 00:07:41.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And the second issue, which we'll get to would be

00:07:42.540 --> 00:07:54.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Kind of related. What do you do as an employer to write to create and maintain a safe and healthy workplace with a healthy workplace culture drink. Open it.

00:07:54.720 --> 00:08:02.160 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right. How do you make sure that employees are following the rules without and how do you enforce those rules with our employees starting to feel resentful.

00:08:03.090 --> 00:08:11.970 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Interest maybe issues that say have employees who have different levels of sensitivity to this pandemic entertaining it in different levels of seriousness.

00:08:13.200 --> 00:08:20.400 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Enroll as an employer to be the enforcer. Right. How do you lead. So something about leadership and the mindset methods.

00:08:20.820 --> 00:08:21.150 Mm hmm.

00:08:22.830 --> 00:08:29.820 Taryn Abrahams: I mean, let's start off by saying that, you know, I think there's no playbook to anything that we're going through right now.

00:08:30.630 --> 00:08:40.830 Taryn Abrahams: You know what I'm going to provide today's is really my insight, based on my experience as a professional and what I have noticed, to be to be effective in the leadership space.

00:08:41.730 --> 00:08:53.070 Taryn Abrahams: But by no means. I mean, I think we're all sort of feeling our way through this as we go through this together. And I think it's the first thing I really kind of want to preface is even though we're all in this together.

00:08:53.580 --> 00:08:57.750 Taryn Abrahams: We're all going through our own unique experiences. So when you talk about leadership.

00:08:58.290 --> 00:09:10.890 Taryn Abrahams: I think what really separates good leaders from exceptional leaders, our lead exceptional leaders, take the time to understand each individual employees situation.

00:09:11.700 --> 00:09:22.680 Taryn Abrahams: And that really goes back to empathy. It's not just about showing your concern about their output as an employee but showing your concern for their overall well being.

00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:35.400 Taryn Abrahams: And we all respond to stress differently. Okay. Now, some of us are ready to go back to work. And as long as we see certain precautions taken, we're ready to go.

00:09:35.880 --> 00:09:41.760 Taryn Abrahams: Then there's others that may not have a pre existing condition, but may suffer from chronic anxiety.

00:09:42.270 --> 00:09:50.700 Taryn Abrahams: Or hypo can dry assists and they worry they battle ready with concerns about their emotional well being and their medical status.

00:09:51.030 --> 00:10:01.800 Taryn Abrahams: So, you know, so it really is about taking the time to get to know each employee and I know that is a a tall order, because we're all overstretched

00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:10.440 Taryn Abrahams: We're all in undated you know we're all trying to figure out ways to cope and pivot. I know that's a word we hear a lot of lately, but it's true.

00:10:11.340 --> 00:10:22.230 Taryn Abrahams: And but I think if we are looking to really retain employees. And I don't just mean retain bodies. I mean, keep them engaged. I mean, keep them loyal.

00:10:23.100 --> 00:10:37.710 Taryn Abrahams: Then you have to take an extra step as a leader to show that care and concern and to work with them and and to create almost a plan of action for each individual employee, because everybody's situation is totally different.

00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:52.230 Taryn Abrahams: Recently actually CBS News poll was done and it said that only 44% of people are comfortable going back to work, physically, so that's what I mean. That means more than half.

00:10:53.280 --> 00:11:00.960 Taryn Abrahams: You know, are not comfortable. So what that means is we need to not only figure out ways to create

00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:10.980 Taryn Abrahams: Safety physically in terms of handwashing in terms of wearing masks. But what are leaders going to do to make sure that they're creating environments.

00:11:11.400 --> 00:11:17.460 Taryn Abrahams: That are emotionally supportive and I think that that really kind of sometimes

00:11:17.880 --> 00:11:25.620 Taryn Abrahams: That's a challenge for leaders, because we're having conversations and we're thinking about things. We maybe have never really thought were relevant in the workplace.

00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:35.610 Taryn Abrahams: But a good leader recognizes that it's about their entire wellness. It's not just a matter of. Are they well enough to show up at work, physically

00:11:35.910 --> 00:11:43.650 Taryn Abrahams: But what can we do to support them emotionally. And I think that you will find that the companies that can figure out that secret sauce.

00:11:44.040 --> 00:11:47.730 Taryn Abrahams: Are the ones that are going to sustain their business through this pandemic.

00:11:48.930 --> 00:11:49.170 Taryn Abrahams: It's

00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:54.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, it's really good point. And a lot of points in there about games. Know the individual needs of employees.

00:11:54.780 --> 00:12:05.340 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, not assuming that all employees are cookie cutter at one particular approachable 19 and I think a good manager of an employer. Also, as you're saying we recognize that that

00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:14.100 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Even as a better word opportunities. Okay, I've been one baby at home or a woman season jump right in other employees may have a whole different boat right

00:12:14.520 --> 00:12:15.870 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, right.

00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:23.370 Taryn Abrahams: And and it means listening with compassion. Because if you are a leader that maybe doesn't believe in the virus.

00:12:23.550 --> 00:12:28.470 Taryn Abrahams: Or thinks the virus is going to disappear after the election or whatever your personal belief might be

00:12:28.920 --> 00:12:41.790 Taryn Abrahams: We need to as leaders make sure that we don't project what we feel in our own experience on to the employees that we manage because I have news for you. Employees see right through.

00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:57.210 Taryn Abrahams: leaders that are not authentic and so you can still you can still disagree on certain things with that employee, but still show empathy and support. So I just wanted to kind of throw it in that this isn't about everybody in green.

00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:06.510 Taryn Abrahams: Right, so how can you show that connection and that compassion. Because at the end of the day, I think that's what all employees are looking for. How much do you care about me.

00:13:06.900 --> 00:13:10.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Hmm goes, I guess it goes to the issue right and what kind of mindset and

00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:12.510 Eric Sarver, Esq.: How

00:13:12.540 --> 00:13:22.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Brave regularly, you know, eventually one of the important ones here because right there's also been this. I've had clients over the years, you know, they mentioned practice in one line so

00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:29.070 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I business owners and some look at what the law requires in terms of what's the minimum that I have to do.

00:13:29.250 --> 00:13:35.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, I get sued by employees right tonight. We're not get fined or improper labor. And just in case we keep employees from them.

00:13:36.330 --> 00:13:42.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And others asked, you know, what is the minimum, but also what can I do right was what are some of the dorm or some

00:13:43.020 --> 00:13:51.570 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Tracks, you know, practical tips that people use I'll put out to my clients that look you know even let's say for example in new york city and state.

00:13:52.200 --> 00:14:03.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Your business with a Manhattan, he might not be required to give a certain amount of days vacation time by law. He may only be participating in five to six sick days on New Year's Eve basically

00:14:05.430 --> 00:14:14.190 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The minimum. But then, so you're okay. You're compliant. You're not breaking them on, but you're not really motivating employees and if your employees are reasonable responsible

00:14:14.760 --> 00:14:26.910 Eric Sarver, Esq.: For point of view, what I hear is that they're not as productive and the morale goes down. And from my point of view is employment lawyer, what I hear is that, you know, a disgruntled employee unhappy employee.

00:14:27.570 --> 00:14:36.780 Eric Sarver, Esq.: If they find a violation of sorts. And Laurie deletion. Some might seek to exploit that others might quit under, under very

00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:46.530 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Harsh circumstances and it pays attention bossy. So really a lot about the benefits of gains or employees listening.

00:14:47.040 --> 00:14:53.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And speaking and listening. I know we're out for break in about a minute so on. But I just want to want to really give some

00:14:54.210 --> 00:15:04.470 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Leaders when you're saying, I found it to be true. And I find that we might approach our clients was finding ways I'm trying to keep them getting sued or

00:15:04.950 --> 00:15:16.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Evolve along but you're also trying to make sure that they don't self destruct by creating such this point in the workplace and divine and I love that you said about keeping views personal use, and

00:15:17.310 --> 00:15:24.210 Taryn Abrahams: I think that's a big piece to this very big. It's not about her of grouping. We don't have to agree to support each other.

00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:29.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: In these modern time to be so hard to find.

00:15:29.520 --> 00:15:30.480 Taryn Abrahams: Very hard to find.

00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:32.520 Taryn Abrahams: Yes, yes.

00:15:32.550 --> 00:15:41.310 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Me know mercial break now but we come back we'll have more of an event. So everyone please stick around.

00:17:46.830 --> 00:17:55.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back everybody. I'm here with again Taryn Abraham's founder of Empower behavioral services full service consulting and

00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:08.550 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Training company for corporate culture employer, employee relations and if you're just joining us, we're talking about two issues to common issues that businesses are facing today with

00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:17.040 Eric Sarver, Esq.: In the workplace. One of them is when you've had employees who refuse to come into work, citing to their concerns around the virus.

00:18:17.670 --> 00:18:30.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And the other issue, which we'll get to in a little bit, has to do with how an employer can go about creating and and really fostering a work culture and environment at work that encourages compliance with

00:18:31.230 --> 00:18:40.230 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Regulations that de escalate conflicts between different workers employees and employees and employers and so I'm enjoying my turn. Abraham's terrine.

00:18:41.280 --> 00:18:45.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Just before the break some great points there as well. And I think you really

00:18:45.840 --> 00:18:55.080 Eric Sarver, Esq.: answered a question I was going to ask you about with respect to the mindset of a good leader and I heard those words that we hear a lot and I think it's important that I think that the

00:18:55.950 --> 00:19:08.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The training met guide, like you said, there's no handbook for them. But we're dealing with today. It's just all other. I mean, crazy world the way things change from March and I just find that

00:19:09.300 --> 00:19:16.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The, the old school sort of method that I know a lot of people follow it for a long time, of being very strict with your employees.

00:19:17.910 --> 00:19:23.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: It has its drawbacks, both from an attorney legal perspective of what might happen, but also from

00:19:24.270 --> 00:19:33.810 Eric Sarver, Esq.: An employee morale and it just on the break some reason I got this thought in my head of a really funny scene from the movie office space with them. Ron Livingston

00:19:34.590 --> 00:19:43.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And they're really funny, folks. Now, and I think it was, he was great. It was on when I runs characters is being interviewed by the to Bob's to to

00:19:44.670 --> 00:19:47.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: HR consultants who are no way qualified as you are.

00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:58.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And they're doing their jobs and, you know, they asked him about what he's doing. And he's, he talking about how he is eight different managers droning on eight bosses breathing down his neck and he says something

00:19:58.860 --> 00:20:09.480 Eric Sarver, Esq.: It's kind of funny, but it's very true. We said, and that will only get me to do the bare minimum, I need to do the shop and not get fired. And it was all taken in a funny.

00:20:10.500 --> 00:20:10.860 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Way.

00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:11.340 Taryn Abrahams: No.

00:20:11.790 --> 00:20:19.440 Taryn Abrahams: But I think it's just, but it's it's a great example because to me the worst type of employees, the one that shows up and it's just like

00:20:19.770 --> 00:20:29.430 Taryn Abrahams: Just going through the motions. They're not bringing their A game. They're not putting their, you know, their best foot forward, they don't bring passion. They don't bring innovation.

00:20:29.910 --> 00:20:37.290 Taryn Abrahams: And like what you're talking about is, you know, we've got traditional leadership which years ago we thought you try to treat everybody the same.

00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:46.680 Taryn Abrahams: And you you know you strict leadership, but we're starting to realize now that there's an interpersonal responsibility, a big interpersonal piece.

00:20:46.950 --> 00:20:51.330 Taryn Abrahams: To leadership in fact emotional intelligence is the buzzword of the year, I think.

00:20:51.660 --> 00:21:00.360 Taryn Abrahams: Because leaders that have the ability to emotionally connect with their employees are the ones that can bring the best out in their employees.

00:21:01.530 --> 00:21:14.160 Taryn Abrahams: You know, and I think as we navigate through this pandemic leadership needs to remember. First of all, we're still in the thick of it. I mean, I know we've been going through this for what, six, seven months now, but

00:21:14.610 --> 00:21:21.000 Taryn Abrahams: We're. I mean, we look back at this 10 years from now, we're still in it, we're still very much in this we've we've

00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:33.120 Taryn Abrahams: Made it. We've maybe we've been resilient in certain ways we've been able to pivot, but we're still in the middle of this and we're approaching the fall, which you know numbers could go up.

00:21:33.870 --> 00:21:42.180 Taryn Abrahams: And and so we need to remember as leaders that employees have been traumatized. Some of the employees have been extremely traumatized.

00:21:42.630 --> 00:21:57.930 Taryn Abrahams: And significantly burdened by kovats now whether they've lost a loved one, whether their, their spouse or partner lost their job. And there's now supporting the whole family. There are so many wounds that need to heal.

00:21:58.530 --> 00:22:14.970 Taryn Abrahams: And I think leaders that know how to connect with their employees. I think that that ultimately if that's an employee that's afraid to come into the work place, physically, if you continue to show that care and support.

00:22:15.270 --> 00:22:20.070 Taryn Abrahams: You will be able to move them to a place where they will be eventually comfortable to

00:22:20.070 --> 00:22:29.910 Taryn Abrahams: Come in, because you've shown that care if you are an employee that meets resistance with resistance. Why aren't you coming in most of the people are back in the office.

00:22:30.150 --> 00:22:31.890 Taryn Abrahams: You're worrying about nothing.

00:22:32.100 --> 00:22:43.950 Taryn Abrahams: I can guarantee you down. If that person comes back. They're certainly not going to come back whole and ready to give 110% because they have lost the respect in you as a leader.

00:22:44.430 --> 00:22:58.680 Taryn Abrahams: And I think respect and trust. I mean, I think that's the foundation of every relationship in this on this planet, but especially the relationship between a leader and employee. I think it's really critical, especially now, especially now.

00:22:59.730 --> 00:23:08.130 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I, I tend to agree so much and you know it's interesting because once again, right, you're talking about ways to move employees towards coming back. If they're saying

00:23:09.300 --> 00:23:16.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I like to remind my clients right the business owner that hey you know what you might be able to move right convince them employees to come back, especially the ones

00:23:16.860 --> 00:23:25.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Who maybe they're not saying any specific concerns like about your workplace, right. They're not saying, look, boss. I've been, you know, listening to people talk about how

00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:34.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: No one's wearing them as or people were not social distancing or the end the employees, maybe let's say we're not saying to their own health concerns and not saying

00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:43.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: As my have COPD. And then my pigeonhole the category, right, because then maybe it's time, not too so much push even gently maybe then it's time to talk about

00:23:43.560 --> 00:23:54.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: What's a reasonable accommodation request is the person or with a medical doctor right it will that create undue hardship to granted and you know I think often employers, if they're leading with compassion, though.

00:23:55.050 --> 00:24:00.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And they're not meeting their employee with sense of fight like I must force them, I must push this, I must

00:24:00.930 --> 00:24:02.430 Taryn Abrahams: Make placing judgment.

00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:07.080 Taryn Abrahams: You know, placing judgment and you know there's there's many ways to send a message.

00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.280 Taryn Abrahams: Something is something maybe even an inappropriate joke.

00:24:11.520 --> 00:24:21.630 Taryn Abrahams: You know, you don't mean any harm by it, but it can plant a seed in that employees mind of like this person is judging me, you know, because I'm not comfortable coming back into the workplace.

00:24:22.080 --> 00:24:22.740 Taryn Abrahams: So,

00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:29.100 Taryn Abrahams: You know, I just think, you know, we need to be really mindful of those little cues and those little messages that we send out

00:24:30.540 --> 00:24:39.060 Taryn Abrahams: And for those employees that are struggling to come back. They can still be a part of the initiative of bringing people back, you can create committees.

00:24:39.600 --> 00:24:47.220 Taryn Abrahams: Where they can be a part of creating safe spaces, they can still be part of the solution even remotely. And I think that's

00:24:47.610 --> 00:24:56.040 Taryn Abrahams: Listen, if there's any lesson we've learned from this pandemic. I think there's been many lessons, the biggest lesson for me is that you can still get your stuff done remotely.

00:24:56.820 --> 00:25:07.260 Taryn Abrahams: In fact, studies to show that productivity is actually up with a lot of fortune 500 companies because they have given their employees, the ability to be

00:25:07.590 --> 00:25:19.020 Taryn Abrahams: To create flexible workspaces, where they can still manage their personal life, and they still manage their professional life. And we know that people still get the work done and effectively to

00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:24.420 Taryn Abrahams: Think we also have to redefine what success looks like.

00:25:24.810 --> 00:25:28.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Yes, that I must agree with you on that. Right. What does success look like

00:25:29.190 --> 00:25:41.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think, too, I have a business owners and from lawyers it lead to success in terms of metrics or the outcome. So they think to themselves, I am successful if right let's say I have 10 employees seven come back.

00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:50.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: To don't come back with a site to this day disabilities. Okay, maybe they actually got the combination to work from home. But let's say if you're in a restaurant or barbershop.

00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:53.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Might be a little harder to you, Rachel grant that you can't

00:25:53.520 --> 00:25:55.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Be a maybe a waiter from home, but

00:25:55.620 --> 00:26:02.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: There's some kind of staggered shifts, they can do coming down off hours, but there are some some some things you can do.

00:26:02.970 --> 00:26:10.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But in terms of redefining successful outcomes. I couldn't agree more. I think that, you know, these days, the success in my mind is in

00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:24.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The employer, the business owner right developing a healthy methodology of dealing with and addressing their employees right so it's if they're improving communication if they're improving like listening and also

00:26:25.350 --> 00:26:35.610 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Ask questions if they're documenting the the outcomes. And if they're having team, say, team building exercises or they're encouraging people to speak openly.

00:26:36.060 --> 00:26:44.010 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Then, even if you get maybe lose couple employees who don't want to come back and maybe they don't have health condition and maybe they don't have

00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:52.800 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A specific complaint about the workplace and maybe it will be time to let them go. But if you've shown and this is a min attorneys point of view and Employment Lawyers point of view.

00:26:53.430 --> 00:27:00.810 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I see it as the last that the employer feels that they've been ignored disrespected, disregarded or

00:27:01.410 --> 00:27:10.380 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Discarded, the less likely they are, they say, you know, to try to can file a lawsuit, you know, seek some kind of extra damage is against you and so

00:27:10.800 --> 00:27:17.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: In some ways, by doing the right thing from a moral perspective medical perspective, you're actually

00:27:18.510 --> 00:27:29.880 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Decreasing your chance of being sued and you might even be increasing productivity. So even if you're a say a manager you think this out. Well, all this emotional intelligence and all this, you know, compassion,

00:27:30.330 --> 00:27:30.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: All these

00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:32.100 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Modern people like

00:27:32.130 --> 00:27:38.490 Eric Sarver, Esq.: It's all x, y, z, fill in the blank whatever additive. I think what I hear you saying it's important for an effective leader.

00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:49.260 Eric Sarver, Esq.: If that's their attitude to step back right step away from the attitude and and really try to write reserve and suspend judgment, right, watch out for those.

00:27:49.830 --> 00:28:00.930 Eric Sarver, Esq.: desires to have those snappers comments me towards which, by the way, as an employment lawyer, I could say, you know, degrading comments if it's done pervasively and persistently and if you

00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:10.620 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Go in there ratio or gender stereotype into the mix. It can be looking its reliability issues there. And while that may sound like, Hey, why am I talking about liability only

00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:17.310 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Um, I should say. I truly do want to see my employers and my my clients that is client employers.

00:28:18.090 --> 00:28:26.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: survive and thrive and so I try to mix into my advice. Look out for the bottom line. Worst case scenario, but also, let's build something positive. And that's why

00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:34.860 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know when I draft employee handbooks and policies, I really try to encourage policies that will keep open line of communication, you know, and I

00:28:35.550 --> 00:28:52.230 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Document things and I think I hear you talking about maybe some of that as well in terms of in terms of something I think maybe we can address. After the break, and maybe we can even connect this to the second issue of how we are creating and fostering a healthy

00:28:53.370 --> 00:29:03.900 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Covered 18 compliant workplace and that's the issue of break like western Pacific methods like maybe we can even, you know, let's say, go through the scenarios, maybe an employee who

00:29:04.620 --> 00:29:15.600 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Let's say just sake of argument rate is his home and they're not maybe after the break, we can perhaps addresses how might you encourage an employee to respond.

00:29:16.110 --> 00:29:23.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Employee is say 35 has no known health risks doesn't even he health risks doesn't name any issues in the workplace.

00:29:24.210 --> 00:29:33.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But just doesn't want to come back to work with 19 wants to stay home and get paid, you know, but let's say they can't work remotely. Right. It's the restaurant or a bakery. It's a barbershop.

00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:45.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So I wonder, like, if you could maybe since our listeners might be in that category of owners and they're wondering what to do. Would you be comfortable maybe sharing some tips you might get that scenario.

00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:50.010 Taryn Abrahams: Absolutely. I see we're approaching a break. So maybe we can table that for after the break.

00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:51.180 Eric Sarver, Esq.: My thoughts exactly.

00:29:52.290 --> 00:29:54.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, so, so after the break with

00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.020 Taryn Abrahams: That and then we'll

00:29:55.110 --> 00:30:07.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Talk about the next issue of right creating that that healthy workplace and you know you got the employees coming in. Well now what right. How do you gauge motivated and how do you deal with different employees levels of

00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:13.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Respect for or or lack of compliance with over 19 regulations.

00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:14.100 Taryn Abrahams: Mm hmm.

00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:23.970 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So it's hard. This is really great. I, I knew you'd be a great first guest, you know, you're very just the way you describe things so authentically and the way you articulate your points. It's

00:30:24.750 --> 00:30:28.200 Eric Sarver, Esq.: It's really a pleasure. I should say that for the end right the

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:30.840 Taryn Abrahams: Door. Yeah.

00:30:31.080 --> 00:30:33.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I say it again. Yes. The pleasure to have you on the show really is.

00:30:33.690 --> 00:30:35.520 Taryn Abrahams: Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

00:30:35.790 --> 00:30:38.910 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So we're not when I ending at folks don't stick around we'll be right back.

00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:44.340 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Don't go anywhere, right, grab some popcorn or a snack. But we'll be back in just a moment.

00:33:02.100 --> 00:33:10.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to the show. Turn on the break. You mentioned wanting to perhaps lead with a point about redefining success. And I want to just

00:33:12.090 --> 00:33:15.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Do that. Before we talk about that particular scenario.

00:33:15.540 --> 00:33:24.750 Taryn Abrahams: Yeah, so, and I wanted to go back to this point because I think understanding this is really going to set the framework for how we lead our employees.

00:33:25.650 --> 00:33:37.170 Taryn Abrahams: Success may have been in the past, sitting at your desk or your cubicle for eight hours and working for eight hours. That might have been how you define a successful day for your employees, but I think

00:33:37.950 --> 00:33:51.090 Taryn Abrahams: We as leaders we we need to redefine what that success looks like because if we decide to lead the same way and we have lead with the same expectations that absolutely can lead to micromanaging

00:33:51.630 --> 00:34:00.060 Taryn Abrahams: Abrasive leadership, the feeling of wanting to control because maybe you've sense of feeling out of control because people are working remotely.

00:34:00.300 --> 00:34:08.760 Taryn Abrahams: And you can check out them. You can check up on them anymore. You can't walk up to their desk anymore and see if they're working so it does require an element of trust.

00:34:09.630 --> 00:34:14.070 Taryn Abrahams: In leaders. So I just want to kind of, I wanted to go back to that because I think

00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:26.310 Taryn Abrahams: As leaders. We have to self reflect and ask ourselves, what is a successful day maybe Sussex successful day now is getting three or four quality hours of work out of your employees.

00:34:26.550 --> 00:34:34.590 Taryn Abrahams: And maybe one hour they go and they walk around their block or their neighborhood or they go and they food shop for themselves and hope you know that their neighbor.

00:34:35.160 --> 00:34:49.140 Taryn Abrahams: Maybe it's shutting down for 45 minutes and meditating and doing a yoga class and I think leaders need to figure out, and I know this is easy to say, but not easy to do. But there needs to be an emphasis on wellness.

00:34:49.260 --> 00:35:02.760 Taryn Abrahams: Hmm. And I think that to be incorporated in terms of how we define a successful day to me. You want your people to be taking care of themselves. You don't want them burning out. You don't want them.

00:35:03.090 --> 00:35:13.050 Taryn Abrahams: You know, self medicating. And by the way, alcohol sales is 60% so you don't want your employees feeling stressed to the max because of work.

00:35:13.740 --> 00:35:25.770 Taryn Abrahams: Amongst other things, and are not taking care of themselves. So wellness is a big piece to that. And when you talk about bottom line and you talk about productivity and you talk about retention and all those things that are important.

00:35:26.310 --> 00:35:31.320 Taryn Abrahams: To a CFO and a business owner, I think wellness is going to be the secret piece to that.

00:35:31.680 --> 00:35:32.190 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Yeah, I think.

00:35:32.430 --> 00:35:34.830 Taryn Abrahams: As we go on in time. I think we're going to see that. Yeah.

00:35:35.730 --> 00:35:44.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, it's so true. And it's funny, I think about how many of us, myself included, and then boy for a number of years now. I started my practice in 2001

00:35:44.910 --> 00:35:55.650 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I started practicing late for them. They need and that got the admission gently and they didn't, you know that's not important. That's the point is, I have been doing this for a long time, my own is what I recall

00:35:56.640 --> 00:36:13.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Joe sort of drove me away from working at law firms for about two and a half years at law school after I took the bar, instead of working was just that that micromanaging right style and sort of the, the needs to be controlling and the focus on billable hours as opposed to quality.

00:36:13.680 --> 00:36:19.920 Taryn Abrahams: So, so, and, you know, it comes from fear. I mean, people overly control others because it comes from a place of

00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:21.120 Taryn Abrahams: Fear right

00:36:21.240 --> 00:36:22.650 Taryn Abrahams: Out of control right

00:36:22.680 --> 00:36:27.120 Taryn Abrahams: But it ends up having the opposite of fat you over control someone you end up pushing away.

00:36:27.690 --> 00:36:29.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So this is, this might be some of the great advice.

00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:30.840 Taryn Abrahams: Example of that.

00:36:32.310 --> 00:36:32.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, I

00:36:33.090 --> 00:36:34.170 Taryn Abrahams: Dependent because

00:36:34.650 --> 00:36:41.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Of that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, so this might be some of the some of the great advice to be giving let's say to you know to your

00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:54.930 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Your clients that say they came to you and as a tyrant, you know, having some issues with working morale. How do we boost employee around. You know, it's interesting. I was a networking group not too long ago and I heard someone ran the issue of

00:36:55.920 --> 00:37:12.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A problem they're having when they said they can't get their employees to work at 100% productivity, like they weren't before the virus. And this was a long time ago. This is back in, I think, like say early May when things were still shut down and people had a few outlets, you

00:37:12.210 --> 00:37:12.570 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Know,

00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:24.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Even now, the restaurants. It was just people read much success in their homes. You know that much more strict time and there were people still learning how to teach their kids online, you know, online zoom and teaching method.

00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:26.430 Taryn Abrahams: Was a chaotic time. Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:41.160 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right. And so, you know, I think like this person, you know, had even listening to you, you know, would would really be defined success. Maybe it's not getting their employees to work the same the same pace. They work before the pandemic and maybe that page needs reexamining also

00:37:41.310 --> 00:37:48.600 Taryn Abrahams: My own challenge to what do you consider 100% productivity. I mean just somebody sitting at a desk for eight hours, doesn't mean

00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:52.140 Taryn Abrahams: They're, they're turning out quality work for eight hours, you know, there's just

00:37:52.230 --> 00:38:02.550 Taryn Abrahams: So much a human being can do right and and I, you know, as someone in a position of leadership, they need to. And again, this kind of goes back to the empathy piece.

00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:09.420 Taryn Abrahams: It's unfair for us as leaders to expect even 100% whatever that might look like. It's hard to even expect that

00:38:09.600 --> 00:38:16.080 Taryn Abrahams: Being going on right now. So, you know, people again. And that goes back to understanding each individual employee.

00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:18.450 Taryn Abrahams: Each person has a different situation.

00:38:18.720 --> 00:38:31.230 Taryn Abrahams: I mean, how do you know that they're not, you know, I know there are some families that you know they're not going out into the supermarkets and there's certain people that are designated to do all the shopping for the entire multiple families so

00:38:31.950 --> 00:38:35.640 Taryn Abrahams: You know, and then we haven't even discussed about homeschooling

00:38:35.670 --> 00:38:40.260 Taryn Abrahams: And what you know the disruption that that's causing employees so

00:38:40.860 --> 00:38:47.790 Taryn Abrahams: You know, it's, it's, it's, there's many, many layers to this, and I think the good news is, is I don't think leaders need to be perfect.

00:38:48.150 --> 00:38:48.600 Taryn Abrahams: Remedy

00:38:48.720 --> 00:38:55.860 Taryn Abrahams: expecting anyone to be perfect, but it's what you do when you have a misstep or when you make a mistake and leaders make mistakes, every day.

00:38:56.160 --> 00:39:09.240 Taryn Abrahams: You know, what do you do when you make a mistake. What do you do when you should have handled something differently or maybe that conversation could have been said in a different way. And I think part of the answer to creating a solid culture.

00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:10.800 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Is

00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:12.180 Taryn Abrahams: Over communication.

00:39:12.810 --> 00:39:13.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I agree.

00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:31.260 Taryn Abrahams: Not over communicate when you under communicate it leaves PEOPLE Assuming the worst they create their own dialogue, they create their own fact sheet when they are missing critical information. So, you know, I think.

00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:37.560 Taryn Abrahams: Another good quality of leadership in addition to empathy is is transparent communication.

00:39:37.950 --> 00:39:44.790 Taryn Abrahams: This is, you know, and share all the things that you're doing to keep that environment safe and keep people healthy and

00:39:45.090 --> 00:39:53.700 Taryn Abrahams: Share success stories and create focus groups and you know there's there's a lot you can do to keep morale up remotely.

00:39:54.150 --> 00:40:06.780 Taryn Abrahams: You just have to be creative and think outside the box. And for those leaders that have been leading for years. We might have to redefine what leadership looks like, which again goes back to that playbook that we're creating as we speak.

00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, it's not following each day. It's

00:40:11.190 --> 00:40:12.000 Taryn Abrahams: Right, right.

00:40:12.750 --> 00:40:19.410 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And you know, it's, I find that so true. I find that, you know, the whole aspect of like leading with compassion of also have

00:40:20.430 --> 00:40:27.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, creating focus groups over communication you know i when i when when I was on Jeremiah and foxes show at August

00:40:28.410 --> 00:40:35.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: As a guest. We talked about you know what what legal advice I would give us a limit and reduce liability as an employer.

00:40:36.030 --> 00:40:40.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right during the pandemic, because you've got a whole different landscape. Right. So you're the employer.

00:40:40.890 --> 00:40:46.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And you're listening to the show and you're acknowledging okay employees have stress and you don't want to acknowledge that leaders have a lot of stress to

00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:56.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: They have to comply with all the CDC guidelines around what to safe environment, they have to respond differently to employees who may feel the quarantine. A lot of people ask me,

00:40:57.150 --> 00:41:06.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Can I test for covert 19 well yes they can test for contest for the antibodies know and they get so confused. So there's a lot to process and so

00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:23.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Bye bye bye bye by encouraging people to communicate right to ask questions and document. I think it does two things. One, it prevents the employee from filling in great the void with a negative story that maybe paints the employer. The most cynical and dark, light,

00:41:23.790 --> 00:41:33.390 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right. And your point of view, right, that might cause the employee to be fearful to step back to look for another job to not, you know, to not be fully engaged.

00:41:33.750 --> 00:41:36.780 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And from my point of view, I say that all those things might happen.

00:41:37.380 --> 00:41:43.410 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And if the employer doesn't need to get be let go. At some point, even if it's for legitimate business reason

00:41:43.710 --> 00:41:49.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, they're going to fill in the narrative. They had if they take that narrative to different plaintiffs Employment Lawyers

00:41:49.560 --> 00:41:57.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, that's when I get the man there in the mail and the employer is shots, is no. I definitely do with the person's fill in the blank their age or gender and

00:41:57.540 --> 00:41:58.170 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Sexuality

00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:11.490 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, but if you're not explaining in the dialogue, what your concerns are. Or if you're not addressing employees concerns and again it could be concerns around like they say their, their work is, you know, suffering.

00:42:12.450 --> 00:42:14.700 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Wait, how do you, how do you address that as an employer.

00:42:15.630 --> 00:42:21.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I mean, I think that. Another thing to consider too is that I told employers to document things so

00:42:21.780 --> 00:42:29.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, one can one scenario which we didn't cover, but I think maybe another show would be worth covering is if an employee complains with unsafe work environment.

00:42:30.180 --> 00:42:43.410 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The last thing you want to do is get defensive and shut them down. And that's through the National Labor Relations Act, right, if you don't give that some credence pay attention. Listen, ask them to give examples right have a dialogue over communicate

00:42:43.530 --> 00:42:54.600 Taryn Abrahams: Turn as you were saying, well, they will, but we must remember though that communication is a two way street. It's not just leaders communicating to employees but there needs to be a place where employees can express their concerns.

00:42:54.630 --> 00:42:55.170 And grievance.

00:42:56.220 --> 00:43:00.750 Taryn Abrahams: Right. So communication is a two way street, you know. Yeah.

00:43:02.100 --> 00:43:06.720 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Sorry. Yep. So so true. Just like right out and listening to what you're saying there exactly

00:43:07.530 --> 00:43:18.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right, it's and it's I think also that, you know, from an employment law perspective. I looked at it as if you if you can address it employees concerns and show that the workplace is in fact safe truly is.

00:43:19.350 --> 00:43:25.470 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Then you might be deconstructing their future lawsuit. If they say you had let them go at some point.

00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:35.340 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And they said was, because you had unsafe workplace. And if you could show look you know I showed them CDC documentation. Right. I had them do a walk through. I encourage them to come to the workplace and

00:43:35.640 --> 00:43:43.110 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, have them talk to other employees and these are not the immediate right go to as solutions that

00:43:43.560 --> 00:43:46.890 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, some of my clients have shocked when I tell them to do this I say, you know, like

00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:53.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Write it down and ask them to specify the Civil War going to do that. I don't want them to create a record. I say, well,

00:43:53.730 --> 00:44:02.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: If there's something truly unsafe, you want to know about it. And if you're not defensive and you're not guarded not try to control everything you will actually end up

00:44:02.640 --> 00:44:13.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Either resolving a truly an unsafe situation. Oh, people aren't wearing masks. I'll put a memo about that level meeting keep we're carrying to close the watercooler. Well, we're going to deal with that. And so

00:44:13.410 --> 00:44:24.030 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think that really what I'm hearing from you is your method of right. What are some of the techniques and methods that employers and managers can use

00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:31.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And a lot of it has to do with conversation. Listening, Listening as much as talking or even listening, more than talking. Would that be a fair statement.

00:44:32.310 --> 00:44:38.490 Taryn Abrahams: Yeah, you want to figure out how to motivate this person you want to empower this person and there's ways to get there. Right.

00:44:38.970 --> 00:44:52.140 Taryn Abrahams: Coming down hard on people you resistance will meet be met with resistance. So you have to get creative and figure out how because that's the goal, right. You want to empower them to do good work and to stay engaged and to stay committed

00:44:52.650 --> 00:45:04.800 Taryn Abrahams: Right. And that means having a human touch, you know, these aren't robots. These are human beings. Right. And we're all going through our own journey. So I agree with you. Yeah.

00:45:05.250 --> 00:45:11.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Very, very true and time we're gonna take a break. More break, we'll come back, we'll have another 12 minutes so to talk about some

00:45:12.630 --> 00:45:25.080 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Some of the thoughts about the workplace and how to really deal with, let's say, employees first employee issues around, you know, uncomfortable with others how they're responding to the virus with not wearing a mask enough at work.

00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:33.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Run through a scenario. And then I want to give you some space to tell the viewers how they can get in touch with you to get more of this nation your

00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:35.310 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Website, your, your

00:45:35.520 --> 00:45:40.110 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Your background, your telephone whatever contact information you'd like to share with us so

00:45:40.650 --> 00:45:52.140 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You can break folks again them Eric solver of here retiring Abraham's I've inherited behavioral surfaces on the debut of my talk radio show NYC show employment law. Today we'll be right back.

00:47:48.660 --> 00:47:53.700 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Okay folks, we're back at them here again with turn Abraham so empower behavioral services.

00:47:55.170 --> 00:48:05.370 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And before we get into Terrence information had to kind of doctor, I wanted to run us through another issue. And to me, the issue. They're very much

00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:15.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Interconnected right they sort of feed into each other because if you can foster if you being the manager or the business owner, the employer, you can foster a

00:48:16.110 --> 00:48:26.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A safe and compliant coven 19 safe compliant workplace and you can encourage employees to practice safety measures like social distancing and wearing the mask.

00:48:26.700 --> 00:48:36.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And washing their hands and respecting people's space then word gets out about that and people tend to them feel more comfortable coming back to the workplace.

00:48:36.690 --> 00:48:45.000 Eric Sarver, Esq.: They now have to worry about the National Labor Relations Act because you're not creating us or that or the ocean as well and occupational safety Health Act because

00:48:45.420 --> 00:48:50.580 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You're not creating an unhealthy on safe work environment. So I guess my question for you is,

00:48:51.330 --> 00:48:59.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Let's say we have some business owners out there listening and you know you've got employees coming into and it could be an office. It could be a bar or restaurant. It could be

00:49:00.270 --> 00:49:08.280 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A shop can be any. I think that's important point to make, right, that when you haven't played back in the workplace and really a lot of these rules apply.

00:49:08.640 --> 00:49:16.230 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Across the board, obviously, some places, the more risky than others, based on the volume people you have coming through the age of the people, etc.

00:49:16.710 --> 00:49:26.550 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But what if you have, say, a business owner, who is telling you turn. I've got less stress because I've got employees who are the outliers. Do not quite

00:49:27.090 --> 00:49:40.410 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Flat Out breaking the rules. But, you know, other employees are concerned because they tend to take them ass down to drink a coffee then leave it down and then walk around the mass, maybe like up to the live for. Either way, is a huge pet peeve of mine. I can't say much. Is this

00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:46.560 Taryn Abrahams: Issue. This is not just an employment issue this issue. Yeah, right. But

00:49:47.670 --> 00:49:56.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Even just folks who are, you know, they gathered maybe too closely at work at the water cooler and it makes others than comfortable, you know, people not respecting the six feet of distancing space.

00:49:57.450 --> 00:50:11.700 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So yeah, I mean, what might you tell an employer in terms of some methods. Maybe if they've got the compassionate leadership, they're listening. They're. How could they impart upon to their employees, the importance of following his will. But what motivate an employee like that.

00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:18.810 Taryn Abrahams: Well, I think it's a great opportunity for companies that maybe don't have a clearly defined.

00:50:20.040 --> 00:50:29.730 Taryn Abrahams: Culture to think about culture now and I think it's a great opportunity to incorporate something in your mission statement or something in your

00:50:30.450 --> 00:50:40.860 Taryn Abrahams: Wording around, you know, caring for your fellow employee and part of caring for each other is protecting each other and doing the right thing.

00:50:41.340 --> 00:50:50.400 Taryn Abrahams: And it's not a matter of you wanting to do it or not wanting to do it. It's doing it for the better of the organization. So I think it's an opportunity to embed some of those

00:50:51.690 --> 00:51:05.490 Taryn Abrahams: Wishes in your mission statement or in or speaking to the culture that you want to create. And then I think you know as an employer, you create clear guidelines and then I really think that each manager.

00:51:06.030 --> 00:51:13.260 Taryn Abrahams: And this is a personal opinion, but I think this might be the, the answer to helping along these conversations is, I think,

00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:24.420 Taryn Abrahams: Training supervisors on how to de escalate and address conflict is, I think, going to be a really important skill for leaders.

00:51:25.290 --> 00:51:36.570 Taryn Abrahams: How you approach that situation can ultimately determine the outcome if you walk up to someone aggressively and say, Come on, dude. Put your mask on. I can guarantee you there's going to be an argument.

00:51:37.140 --> 00:51:51.300 Taryn Abrahams: XO, you have to be careful how you approach it. Now, if you have a rapport with that person and you want to use some humor. Again, it's up to you and your comfort level. But if you're a leader and you see someone not following the guidelines.

00:51:51.960 --> 00:52:02.850 Taryn Abrahams: You know having a protocol in place on how to handle those things is important. And again, I think. Empathy is going to be a big component to that because what's going to come out of that.

00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:10.440 Taryn Abrahams: Is the why the person doesn't want to wear a mask and how they feel about what's going on in politics might even be come up

00:52:10.650 --> 00:52:12.780 Taryn Abrahams: So you have to as a leader.

00:52:13.380 --> 00:52:15.390 Taryn Abrahams: Figure out how to dance around that.

00:52:15.600 --> 00:52:16.530 Taryn Abrahams: Where you can

00:52:16.620 --> 00:52:35.280 Taryn Abrahams: Still leave this person feeling validated. But yet, still holding them accountable for for following the guidelines that you've set in place. It is not easy to do that. I am the first one to say it is not easy to do. And especially if you're a leader who's afraid of getting coven

00:52:35.490 --> 00:52:45.000 Taryn Abrahams: Hmm, very, it's really like high likelihood that you're going to be approached it from a reactivity standpoint, and we all know when your reactive your

00:52:45.660 --> 00:52:55.650 Taryn Abrahams: Walls going to go up and that person is not going to do what you ask them to do right so very challenging. But I think conflict resolution training isn't is key.

00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:07.950 Taryn Abrahams: I also think training supervisors and leaders on the warning signs of depression and anxiety and have a de escalate. That is also part of that conversation.

00:53:08.550 --> 00:53:18.540 Taryn Abrahams: How how employees deal with rules and guidelines and, you know, it's so interesting to see people's perspective on the mask.

00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:24.750 Taryn Abrahams: Because we've been here before with the seat belts and yet, NOBODY COMPLAINS it have seatbelts. We all just wear seatbelts.

00:53:25.470 --> 00:53:32.370 Taryn Abrahams: So you know we are as a society, trying to navigate through all of this, what has what has been

00:53:32.790 --> 00:53:41.460 Taryn Abrahams: Some really big changes. We had no time to prepare for right so we have, you know, we all are processing it in different ways.

00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:58.290 Taryn Abrahams: And leaders that are able to validate acknowledge de escalate support, I think, are the ones that are going to see the best set of their employees, the ones that struggle with that may have a really tough time

00:53:58.680 --> 00:54:11.670 Taryn Abrahams: You know, you're going to have a lot of sleepless nights, because again, you talk about people pivoting I think leadership is in the middle of a very big pivot. And I think there's some really good that can come out of this. I know there's a lot of good that's going to come

00:54:11.670 --> 00:54:11.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: At it.

00:54:12.030 --> 00:54:15.900 Taryn Abrahams: But I kind of picture like we've all been kind of punched in the face.

00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:16.410 Taryn Abrahams: You know,

00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:18.480 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And never be right. That seems like

00:54:19.680 --> 00:54:20.550 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Family like

00:54:20.940 --> 00:54:22.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Exactly, yeah.

00:54:23.160 --> 00:54:33.330 Taryn Abrahams: Exactly and and and to answer that. And this isn't this is maybe a topic for another show. What do we do do when our please do come back and they're different people, they have

00:54:33.750 --> 00:54:45.150 Taryn Abrahams: permanently changed from this experience, we need to start thinking about how to support those types of individuals as well. There is going to be a very big emphasis. I hope on mental health.

00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:55.470 Taryn Abrahams: It's always been somewhat of a stigma in the workplace, but I think it's going to become a necessary part of the conversation on how to motivate and engage keep keep people engaged.

00:54:56.130 --> 00:55:04.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know I say one thing we want to leave room and space for you to share your information, but what you're saying what I hear town. It's so good to hear because

00:55:05.010 --> 00:55:17.280 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Frankly, some of those techniques should discuss de escalation right you know in conflict resolution trying to to listen and a lot of that is what we attorneys look for and mediation right

00:55:18.090 --> 00:55:18.600 Taryn Abrahams: It's true.

00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:24.480 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Really like you know effort at the bottom fell out. And people are engaged in litigation or potential lawsuits. So, you know,

00:55:24.780 --> 00:55:36.510 Eric Sarver, Esq.: To be able to do this before you get to that stage would not be a win win for the employer and the employee and the last thing I'll say around this is, I mean, there's so much to say another show mental health. It's a whole issue right there around

00:55:36.510 --> 00:55:45.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Half Ada disability laws, but what I see, too, is that these tips we discussed today. These mindsets and methodologies.

00:55:45.750 --> 00:55:56.010 Eric Sarver, Esq.: They're not reserved for just Google and the giant corporations. You can be a mom and pop shop and practice compassionate leadership. You can be a five person or an employer. You can be a to President employee.

00:55:56.820 --> 00:56:02.190 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Shop, or you can have four offices and 100 employees and everything that you're saying today.

00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:09.720 Eric Sarver, Esq.: goes a long way towards inflamed around towards reducing conflict and everything in that regard for less conflict and the less

00:56:10.260 --> 00:56:18.720 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Dispute and the lesson of a sort of coming to a head, the less chance of liability issues less chance of lawsuits from employment or negligent standpoint.

00:56:19.110 --> 00:56:26.490 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So we've had a lot of any covered a lot and I want to give you the next minute just to share your information if you have a slide you'd like to share

00:56:26.790 --> 00:56:29.610 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Your screen share. There we go.

00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:33.780 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I can see that Terrence Terrence Abraham's

00:56:33.810 --> 00:56:36.510 Taryn Abrahams: Trying to share the actual slide. Here we are.

00:56:37.530 --> 00:56:38.040 Eric Sarver, Esq.: There we go.

00:56:38.160 --> 00:56:39.480 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Okay, so

00:56:39.720 --> 00:56:41.160 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Once again, everyone that was on

00:56:42.120 --> 00:56:54.660 Taryn Abrahams: You just heard from her any companies that are looking for for for guidance some insights. So consulting in terms of how to move leadership into a place where you can really engage people and keep people

00:56:55.110 --> 00:57:07.740 Taryn Abrahams: Seen and and connected. I would love to hear from you. If nothing else, please visit my website and you can subscribe to my free monthly newsletter, which I provide free tips and strategies.

00:57:08.430 --> 00:57:21.450 Taryn Abrahams: On variety of topics around leadership and company culture and business morale and so and if you're feeling real gold. I'd love to hear from you can email me attarian at ECB s LLC com

00:57:22.860 --> 00:57:34.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Wonderful turn. Thank you so much. Once again, I'm Eric solver from the law firm solver and employment business law. Law Firm practice and this is debut of my weekly show

00:57:35.460 --> 00:57:41.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Employment Law today. Tune in next Tuesday 5pm 6pm Eastern Standard Time gets to be announced.

00:57:41.700 --> 00:57:50.910 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Once again, Tara. Thank you for being on the show was really terrific and just marvelous job and I i recommend turn highly if you're out there and you're struggling with these issues. That's a big

00:57:51.630 --> 00:58:00.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Time into the hour. I want to thank you from my heart as dearly and everyone just step up our commercial break.

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