The Mind Behind Leadership

Thursday, August 20, 2020
Facebook Live Video from 2020/08/20 - The Process of Standing Out


2020/08/20 - The Process of Standing Out

[NEW EPISODE] The Process of Standing Out

Being able to Stand Out personally and in business, gives us opportunities. In the current job market, everyone needs that extra edge – recruiters and candidates alike. Be able to show our best selves is not always easy under pressure situations, our guest this week Michael Neece is the master. How we manage to get our message over and how we keep calm under scrutiny.

An engineer at heart, Michael also works with businesses on developing and refining processes to maximize opportunities and give them the foundation to grow or scale. In today’s market it can also mean survival.

Watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Founder of several companies and TedTalk speaker, Michael Neece, joins Graham tonight to talk about how success is discovered and maintained. Michael is a proprietor of wellness, education, and philanthropy. He is involved in many non-profits that have taught him how to be a better leader in his day job. His current company,, helps companies and job seekers make the interview process more enjoyable and successful. Through teaching tools and classes, Michael trains all parties to be better at interviews. Hiring is based on intuition, not information, so Michael bridges the gap between those two factors. 

Graham and Michael discuss how to balance a logical, physics mindset with being a social, people person. Finding connection is not always obvious, but paying attention to detail can help you establish those connections faster. Leaders need to pay attention to their own work culture in order to hire the best people for the job. 

Despite the challenging times we are living in, some industries are actually succeeding during COVID-19. Michael talks about which industries are booming and why. 

Segment 2

Graham and Micheal discuss the unemployment rate in the United States and what that means for certain industries and the future. Perhaps these unemployment numbers should not cause so much fear, says Michael. He advises the audience on how to control fear surrounding uncertainty and what to do with that energy instead. Breaking into new job markets is hard, but through motivation and confidence, you can get your foot in the door. 

Now more than ever, time and distance are irrelevant to work. Location is no longer a determinant for jobs, working online is more popular than ever. Hone in on your transferable skills in order to stand out to recruiters and hiring companies. Showcase your ability to adapt and grow.

Segment 3

Leadership has changed overnight. Now, there are different standards for what a leader must do in order to motivate and engage a team. The pandemic has shaken up what it means to be a good leader. Michael explains these changes and how they have affected the workplace. Expectations of both employees and leaders are different, he speaks about why compromise and collaboration are more important than ever.

Michael encourages thinking outside of the box in every setting. Problem solving is directly linked to creativity. 

Segment 4

Graham and Michael talk about what it takes to be a strong leader during the current work climate. Leaders need to be so much more nowadays. Michael believes that leadership is equivalent to service; being helpful to those you employ or work with is one of the best traits  you can have. 

Jobs profoundly affect one’s own quality of life. Financial standing, career, and quality of life are all interconnected. So, by improving your career life, you ultimately improve your personal life.


00:00:47.040 --> 00:00:54.300 Graham Dobbin: Hi, welcome to the mind behind leadership live on talk radio dot NYC. We're live from New York this evening and

00:00:55.020 --> 00:01:05.130 Graham Dobbin: You know, we talked to leaders every week from different types of industries different backgrounds and leadership's probably had a really different focus over the last few months.

00:01:05.790 --> 00:01:14.670 Graham Dobbin: Tough decisions have had to be made layoffs furloughs downsizing. We're hearing and reading about it every single day. The thing is, it's not all doom and gloom.

00:01:15.360 --> 00:01:19.530 Graham Dobbin: But when companies do goes through this, it's tough for everyone. Great leaders feel it.

00:01:20.070 --> 00:01:29.040 Graham Dobbin: And, but, as I say, some companies are really thriving and tonight. I'm delighted that we have our once again as a guest, Michael. Nice.

00:01:29.310 --> 00:01:34.650 Graham Dobbin: Who is going to give us some insights into exactly what's happening out there and how we should

00:01:35.100 --> 00:01:46.620 Graham Dobbin: Possibly approach things they just to give a bit of background and Michael Michael is an RC plane flying engineer and serial entrepreneur is also a TEDx speaker.

00:01:47.160 --> 00:01:57.000 Graham Dobbin: And one unusual factors. He co authored a congressional resolution, and I think the unusual thing about this was, it was actually approved by the US Congress

00:01:57.330 --> 00:02:13.890 Graham Dobbin: Currently, He is the CEO of interview mastery, which is a market leading platform that allows companies recruiters and job seekers to make better decisions about how they capitalize on their own talents. Good evening, Michael.

00:02:14.880 --> 00:02:17.880 Michael Neece: Good evening, Graham. It's a pleasure as always to be with you.

00:02:18.390 --> 00:02:22.920 Graham Dobbin: Just Michael, thank you get you just give us a little bit background. How did you end up

00:02:23.970 --> 00:02:28.860 Graham Dobbin: With interview mastery just remind us. And just in case anybody's NOT KNOW HOW DID YOU BEFORE.

00:02:29.250 --> 00:02:47.640 Michael Neece: Yeah. Well, I'm a guy who went to school that I majored in physics because I wanted to understand how the world work and then I majored in then after that I got a master's in engineering and right out of school. My all in throughout my career has all about improving business processes.

00:02:48.810 --> 00:03:02.430 Michael Neece: When my baby started showing up. And at the time it took to just like today, it takes to parental incomes to pay the mortgage and all the expenses. I had to figure out overnight. I had to double my income. So I became

00:03:02.820 --> 00:03:12.930 Michael Neece: A recruiter an agency recruiter, and it worked out just fine. But what I realized is that the hiring process is

00:03:13.950 --> 00:03:20.430 Michael Neece: An extremely important business process. And it's really broken. And it's been broken for a couple of generations.

00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:31.350 Michael Neece: And it's, I'm passionate about trying to fix it for everybody involved. So that's what led to me, creating interview mastery, which is this E learning platform that shows people

00:03:32.010 --> 00:03:36.180 Michael Neece: Here. Here's how to interview correctly and pick the right people faster.

00:03:37.020 --> 00:03:43.740 Michael Neece: That's for the employers and the hiring teams and for recruiters. Here's a resource that you can share with your job seekers that will help them.

00:03:44.310 --> 00:03:54.870 Michael Neece: get hired more quickly. So I just want the hiring process to be, To feel a whole lot more prosperous and joyful for everybody involved. But it's all comes back to improving a business process.

00:03:55.320 --> 00:03:57.990 Graham Dobbin: So when you see broken. What do you mean by that.

00:03:58.440 --> 00:04:12.210 Michael Neece: It's extremely inefficient extremely inefficient and actually the one little example I can give you is that hiring is it's it's still based on intuition.

00:04:13.290 --> 00:04:21.720 Michael Neece: And, you know, or, you know, somebody will say an interviewer will say, Oh, I know. I don't think they fit. Well, what the hell does that mean

00:04:22.140 --> 00:04:35.160 Michael Neece: That just means I don't feel comfortable that they're going to work out in our environment, but it's all based on intuition and not information. There is no other business decision.

00:04:36.330 --> 00:04:45.150 Michael Neece: That's based on intuition. Now business decision outside of hiring is would be tolerated based on. Oh, I just feel like it's the right person.

00:04:45.990 --> 00:05:00.000 Michael Neece: So there's been decades worth of studies done about the effectiveness of picking the right person and interviewing and interviewing comes out to be 47% right that's less accurate than flipping a coin.

00:05:03.780 --> 00:05:06.780 Graham Dobbin: So surely. You're not saying we should just flip a coin.

00:05:07.050 --> 00:05:07.530 Graham Dobbin: No.

00:05:07.950 --> 00:05:14.910 Michael Neece: No, what I would say is you should be more analytical about it and make it more based on data and doing assessments of

00:05:15.270 --> 00:05:31.980 Michael Neece: You know whether or not, somebody's going to fit in an organization. Well, use an assessment tool to measure what the reality is of your culture now and then you can use that as a basis on which to measure whether somebody will fit in your culture, but use information to guide your decision.

00:05:33.180 --> 00:05:40.020 Graham Dobbin: I'm I'm interested. Do you feel that there's, there's, there's any room for gut instinct or should it all be data driven

00:05:41.130 --> 00:05:50.880 Michael Neece: Oh, of course. Well data should be the foundation. And so let's imagine you're walking in the absence of no information, all you have is your intuition.

00:05:52.050 --> 00:06:01.260 Michael Neece: Yeah, but the more intuition more data you have to inform your intuition, the more accurate your decisions are going to be made.

00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:04.110 Graham Dobbin: It's interesting as well.

00:06:05.610 --> 00:06:10.410 Graham Dobbin: As you know, we've had discussions as well. But it's just somebody the teams that we are working with at the moment.

00:06:10.950 --> 00:06:18.270 Graham Dobbin: And we're saying you need to you need to have assessment, you need to have data to understand what's happening with teams because we're working remotely know

00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:30.060 Graham Dobbin: And that is such a just joint between communication, but you're saying that that that is exactly the same. We were looking for new staff, not just not just when we're working with people as well.

00:06:30.690 --> 00:06:36.990 Graham Dobbin: Um, so how does, how does somebody who does physics, engineering, become a people person. Because that's what a

00:06:36.990 --> 00:06:46.470 Graham Dobbin: Recruiter is, you know, it's pure sales. A the recruitment process. So very, very complicated sales process. So how does a

00:06:48.030 --> 00:06:49.440 Graham Dobbin: Physician physics.

00:06:50.970 --> 00:06:52.620 Graham Dobbin: Physics and engineer. How do you get into

00:06:52.620 --> 00:07:01.230 Michael Neece: That, well, actually I was always a people person and comfortable interacting at an emotional level with people from time, I was a little kid.

00:07:01.890 --> 00:07:19.530 Michael Neece: And so I was just very comfortable. But what drove me to physics and I met and I so I majored in physics I majored in philosophy and I was driven to just understand how the heck does this planet work for us humans and the I

00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:28.080 Michael Neece: The more you ask questions like, Well, why is that, well, why is that why is, why is that you get down to

00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:41.640 Michael Neece: Reasons that are metaphysical you end up with religious beliefs, when you keep unraveling the onion. So you end up with this spiritual place and like, I'll give you an example in physics.

00:07:42.180 --> 00:07:48.840 Michael Neece: There's a principle called the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which means that if I'm trying to measure something

00:07:49.470 --> 00:08:03.930 Michael Neece: Like if I'm trying to measure the heat of something I have to stick a probe in it to measure to make the thermometer go up by introducing something I'm actually changing the temperature of the water just a little bit.

00:08:04.290 --> 00:08:04.830 Graham Dobbin: So like

00:08:05.370 --> 00:08:22.140 Michael Neece: So, but there is this relationship between what is being observed and who the observer is this this so we we affect the material world. Just by observing it or what we think about.

00:08:23.340 --> 00:08:24.180 Michael Neece: how we feel about it.

00:08:24.420 --> 00:08:30.660 Graham Dobbin: Yeah, I mean, it's a check. Obviously, people talk about quantum physics, you've got quantum healing by Deepak Chopra, people are making

00:08:30.660 --> 00:08:30.960 Graham Dobbin: A

00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:44.400 Graham Dobbin: I absolutely making about the physical and also the mental quantum language patterns are used within hypnosis. Yes, there is there is there is there is a distinct link. It's not really not obvious at times to most people. Is it

00:08:44.760 --> 00:08:54.810 Michael Neece: No, it is not that obvious, but what is obvious, is people how they feel about something and they would intuitively agree that, yeah, this is a vibration

00:08:55.260 --> 00:09:10.320 Michael Neece: I feel this vibration and what I learned in physics is everything is vibrating in its own specific frequency all the time. Nothing is staying the same. Everything is vibrating.

00:09:11.640 --> 00:09:25.350 Michael Neece: Just like we are. And we affect we affect the vibration, even if you know we affect each other. You know how many times you've walked into a room and you felt somebody presence, like, oh yeah, it just feels good. Being around them. I haven't even spoken to him yet.

00:09:26.130 --> 00:09:34.230 Graham Dobbin: So I suppose hospital was coming from when I'm talking about intuition and gut instinct that you can walk into a room and be attracted to someone

00:09:35.280 --> 00:09:37.830 Graham Dobbin: That you want to talk to them, where you feel there's a connection.

00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:45.960 Graham Dobbin: But we're seeing this, actually there's a little bit more than that. And if we've got the data it can help us with someone brand new. Yes.

00:09:46.410 --> 00:09:55.560 Michael Neece: Yeah, the mistake that companies make is they want someone that fits, actually, that they feel fits in their culture.

00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:10.980 Michael Neece: And what they should give some thought to is, what do I want my culture to be. And as I hire people, the people are the different ingredients in the organism in the cultural recipe.

00:10:11.940 --> 00:10:21.630 Michael Neece: So companies that are more conscious about his came out. This is if they want to change and migrate their culture to something else like from being bureaucratic entrepreneurial

00:10:21.990 --> 00:10:30.630 Michael Neece: They would consciously hire people that are more entrepreneurial a hence essentially changing the cultural recipe to migrated over time.

00:10:32.070 --> 00:10:51.630 Graham Dobbin: So, so it's interesting. We had them Sanjay cigar long last week, who is the CEO of emphasis technologies, the employer thousand people. And he, you know, he founded it already took over the company Betty early, but he is also a meditation shooter.

00:10:52.410 --> 00:10:53.130 Michael Neece: And, wow.

00:10:53.310 --> 00:11:03.300 Graham Dobbin: The culture, the culture that he's created in there. It's come from him. It's not that that's almost the company's a mirror of the leaders, how

00:11:03.630 --> 00:11:07.860 Graham Dobbin: Does that happen or how often does it and how often does that need to change the you think

00:11:09.210 --> 00:11:22.200 Michael Neece: Oh, organizations, the culture is a reflection of the leader, without a doubt, if the leader has certain values that cascades into the whole organization and just think about

00:11:23.610 --> 00:11:25.650 Michael Neece: For your listeners, just think about

00:11:26.730 --> 00:11:30.960 Michael Neece: How profoundly your immediate boss affects you.

00:11:31.890 --> 00:11:37.080 Michael Neece: In terms of what you think about or what you think success looks like decisions you make.

00:11:37.650 --> 00:11:49.560 Michael Neece: Now that boss might be the first line supervisor. They are impacted by their first line manager and the managers effect and it goes all the way up to the C level executives.

00:11:50.070 --> 00:12:01.230 Michael Neece: Whatever values and practices that they represent not what they talk about, but what they do, leading by example that cascades through the whole organization.

00:12:02.190 --> 00:12:10.320 Graham Dobbin: And, you know, and my experience that can actually change quite quickly. It doesn't take a lot to change that. So I suppose we're saying that the

00:12:10.680 --> 00:12:19.080 Graham Dobbin: Culture of a company can change very, very quickly, as well. We've got some. One of the things we spoke with Sanjay was last week about when going through the

00:12:19.530 --> 00:12:34.830 Graham Dobbin: You know, when all this happened, what was the first thing he needed to do. And he said it was get all my employees back to the families. They would all over the world, all we did was get people on flights. That was a first thing that we had to do everything else.

00:12:36.090 --> 00:12:36.450 Graham Dobbin: About

00:12:36.540 --> 00:12:44.160 Graham Dobbin: House. We've taken. Absolutely. And when you've got when you've got a leader like that, everything else falls into place.

00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:44.790 Michael Neece: Mm hmm.

00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:56.010 Graham Dobbin: And so one of the things that we just one of the things I've kind of started off saying that this has been a tough time but it's not tough in every industry.

00:12:56.400 --> 00:13:04.770 Graham Dobbin: So we've got a couple of minutes to the break and we'll, we'll discuss this afterwards as well before industries. Do you see a thriving at the moment.

00:13:05.550 --> 00:13:06.840 Michael Neece: Oh, actually, there's

00:13:07.950 --> 00:13:17.880 Michael Neece: Ah, well I was reading a report today that LinkedIn did an analysis of the job postings, and they and they sorted it not by industry but type of jobs.

00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:30.420 Michael Neece: And sales, marketing product development and healthcare are booming and the conversations. I'm having with recruiters substantially validates that

00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:38.670 Graham Dobbin: I'm booking so sales. What kind of industries are we looking at are we looking in healthcare cell phone.

00:13:39.390 --> 00:13:41.040 Michael Neece: Oh, not necessarily healthcare.

00:13:42.300 --> 00:14:00.060 Michael Neece: You have well healthcare is a very diverse industry from a adult daycare two children day care to post acute care, you know, the kind of rehabilitation services, you get. And then there's the emergency surgeries and so there's many layers and

00:14:01.530 --> 00:14:03.180 Michael Neece: I think we might have to go to a break in a couple of

00:14:03.180 --> 00:14:06.720 Graham Dobbin: Seconds, we are, we're gonna we're gonna go to break, once we come back from that break

00:14:07.110 --> 00:14:11.940 Graham Dobbin: I really want to dig into what the recruiters are saying, I know you're having discussions on a daily basis.

00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:22.740 Graham Dobbin: On what the critics are saying, and can we begin to give pointers to people saying, look, these are the industries. It's not just Amazon that are out there are all the people as well who are absolutely thriving.

00:14:23.010 --> 00:14:25.800 Graham Dobbin: You're listening to the mind behind leadership with

00:14:26.190 --> 00:14:35.280 Graham Dobbin: Me Graham Dobbin we're speaking again. So, Michael, nice this evening here live on talk radio dot NYC. We will be back right after these messages.

00:16:43.710 --> 00:16:51.000 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back, you're listening to the mind behind leadership we are speaking with Michael nice Michael just before we go on to talk about

00:16:51.420 --> 00:16:58.680 Graham Dobbin: Maybe what the recruiters are saying and and what kind of industries, let's just step back for a moment why we're having this discussion.

00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:04.860 Graham Dobbin: I'm reading and hearing about the numbers on almost a daily basis that are fluctuating

00:17:05.820 --> 00:17:15.780 Graham Dobbin: 10% unemployment in July nationally, which is seasonally adjusted so I don't quite know where that means I know for the PPP, that means it's been high and low and back up again.

00:17:16.050 --> 00:17:28.680 Graham Dobbin: As people are followed and brought back in and I read a report today. The NYC in New York City. We were looking at something like 20% unemployment, who puts your opinion, what's behind these

00:17:30.360 --> 00:17:35.790 Michael Neece: That is a macro number. I used to be on national television every week talking about

00:17:36.330 --> 00:17:57.810 Michael Neece: The what the employment numbers mean and those are macro country wide numbers. What's more important is what is hyper local to you. And what I mean by hyper local is the industries that you have worked in and your geography.

00:17:58.860 --> 00:18:09.930 Michael Neece: And that's well. Another thing about geography and where you work. That's completely gone, you could work remote work has made it possible to work from anywhere.

00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:13.980 Graham Dobbin: Yeah and there's a few other issues we're going to discuss those

00:18:14.550 --> 00:18:16.260 Michael Neece: Yes, it has. So when

00:18:18.600 --> 00:18:28.530 Michael Neece: When you hear the unemployment numbers from the TV that's there to scare you. Oh my god. There are so many people looking. Yes. There's so many people looking, but they're out of let's say there's

00:18:29.550 --> 00:18:41.670 Michael Neece: 20 million people looking in, you know, in any particular in the United States, but let's boil it down to your state like in New York City. There might be a million.

00:18:42.120 --> 00:18:57.090 Michael Neece: But within your industry, there might be 20,000 but there might be 10 the do what you do. So everything about the employment is hyper hyper hyper specific to you.

00:18:57.750 --> 00:19:11.730 Michael Neece: And the, the noise about how terrible it is now if you're unemployed, it is terrible. It's very scary. I'm not discounting that I'm just telling you it's not as bad as you imagine it to be.

00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:14.190 Graham Dobbin: Um,

00:19:15.660 --> 00:19:24.480 Graham Dobbin: How do we deal with that. Then, but that's the message that's coming, coming at us all the time how they individuals deal with that.

00:19:26.070 --> 00:19:28.470 Michael Neece: Ah, turn off the TV.

00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:32.850 Graham Dobbin: I'm asking. One of the things obviously interview mastery helps

00:19:32.910 --> 00:19:42.660 Graham Dobbin: helps people get prepared now if they're not going in with the right mindset into that interview if they're going in with a mindset of I'm only one of 100 or

00:19:43.110 --> 00:19:48.570 Graham Dobbin: You know, I don't have an opportunity and I don't have a chance. We know that whether we think we can. Or we can't rewrite

00:19:49.080 --> 00:20:02.670 Graham Dobbin: You know, and there's a lot behind that you know that that's a scene that gets thrown around that is actually a lot behind it. So, so is it as simple as just ignore what's going out going on out there and concentrating ourselves.

00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:15.660 Michael Neece: Concentrate on yourself like we always have their, you know, our we are masters of our own universe, but we decide I mean a little spiritual on you, but we are

00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:24.540 Michael Neece: We experience what we imagine. Okay, so let me get a little bit more practical. Let's say you're working, you're out of work and you're looking for a position.

00:20:25.020 --> 00:20:34.620 Michael Neece: And you have, you don't even know what your transferable skills are, but you want to work for a company who has a certain set of values that

00:20:35.430 --> 00:20:47.550 Michael Neece: resonate with you. So the first thing you can do is look for companies that have a brand that you feel good about and it might be a nonprofit.

00:20:48.120 --> 00:20:54.390 Michael Neece: So look for nonprofits that are in your geography or not even not even in your geography. Yep.

00:20:55.200 --> 00:21:09.480 Michael Neece: And find people on LinkedIn, you might, you know, just do a search. Okay, I'm looking for people from link that are on LinkedIn from this company and send them a short little invitation and just ask for a little help.

00:21:10.530 --> 00:21:16.170 Michael Neece: And if you find 10 people at a company, you're going to find two or three that are going to actually respond to your invitation.

00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:23.790 Michael Neece: And you'll be able to start up a conversation and you just rather than saying, hey, I'm looking for work I do this. Do you need anybody like me.

00:21:24.300 --> 00:21:29.880 Michael Neece: The first thing you're going to do is go away. So what you do is you start out by just asking questions like,

00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:38.010 Michael Neece: I'm looking for work, but I'm trying to your I'm been attracted to your company because of the values that you represent. I'm curious.

00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:45.390 Michael Neece: What does it take to be successful at your company or like, why do you work there. What's great about it.

00:21:45.960 --> 00:22:03.510 Michael Neece: So you're building the you're you're planting seeds of a relationship on which you can build to get introductions to other people at that company, essentially what you're doing is you're creating your own little micro job market where you're dictating the activity and the rules.

00:22:04.650 --> 00:22:05.850 Michael Neece: Driven by your values.

00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:14.910 Graham Dobbin: You know, one of the things, again, we work, especially with people is, is how to live your leverage your network. The people you already know.

00:22:15.450 --> 00:22:28.500 Graham Dobbin: hooting on to LinkedIn seeking opportunities is just not enough nowadays it's just not enough and people need to be to be kind of motivated to help as well. And I suppose that's a great question to ask.

00:22:30.150 --> 00:22:39.570 Graham Dobbin: That that gives people the opportunity to give you a really good answer. My guess is if they don't give you an answer. They may be not kind of got the values that we would want them to have anywhere.

00:22:40.710 --> 00:22:40.950 Graham Dobbin: So,

00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:43.470 Graham Dobbin: Give us an idea. So we've talked, we talked and

00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:54.510 Graham Dobbin: Professions earlier that sales, marketing product development and settle into healthcare industry knows that that's happening when. Oh, so you see movement.

00:22:55.320 --> 00:23:04.290 Michael Neece: Well, you asked for industries and now there are exceptions to every thing I'm going to say construction is still

00:23:04.830 --> 00:23:23.430 Michael Neece: rocking and rolling. Now we're experiencing what I would call and other people have called the urban exodus from the population centers and people are moving out because work is no longer associated to geography, the internet and this pandemic has made time and distance irrelevant.

00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:32.820 Michael Neece: There is, and you'd say, well, in the recruiting industry. That can't be. That's got to be dead now. It's actually the opposite. There is

00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:53.520 Michael Neece: Huge amounts of investment money go venture capital going into recruitment technology companies, particularly the ones are leveraging artificial intelligence to transform how to make it easier for recruiters to find people and AI is there there it's being leveraged to

00:23:54.570 --> 00:24:05.070 Michael Neece: Automate some repetitive tasks that recruiters do now, other industries are healthcare. Okay. People are going to go, Oh yeah, that's no big deal, Michael. Yes, there is.

00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:21.210 Michael Neece: A lot of hiring going on and their skill shortages in health care. But don't just think of health care in terms of hospitals. Think of healthcare as physician offices rehabilitation centers.

00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:38.850 Michael Neece: Other specialized healthcare organizations that are providing niche services like a nuclear magnetic resonance imaging centers and those people, those companies that are hiring. They're telling me they can't find people

00:24:40.350 --> 00:24:41.910 Michael Neece: Oh yeah so

00:24:42.090 --> 00:24:43.560 Michael Neece: No recruiters are telling me.

00:24:44.040 --> 00:25:01.620 Michael Neece: That actually I was speaking to her recruiter just several hours ago from Austin, Texas, and she's a part of a national firm and she said they're breaking revenue their placement records and they just doubled revenue during the pandemic in Austin, Texas.

00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.630 Michael Neece: Which is counter

00:25:05.010 --> 00:25:05.940 Michael Neece: Counter

00:25:07.710 --> 00:25:10.230 Michael Neece: Not intuitive. It's just counter to the other.

00:25:10.590 --> 00:25:11.640 Graham Dobbin: Reporters we're hearing

00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:13.890 Graham Dobbin: Everything yes now.

00:25:14.010 --> 00:25:26.580 Michael Neece: In no matter what the everything I just said applies even when the job market when the unemployment rate is 1% new still it's still hyper specific to you.

00:25:28.290 --> 00:25:37.950 Graham Dobbin: Okay. Um so recruiters are saying that in specific markets that is boiling it and they can't find the right people. Mm hmm. Yeah.

00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:43.920 Michael Neece: So, yeah. And actually, so let me give you another one tell you one other thing that the recruiter in Austin, Texas told me

00:25:44.340 --> 00:25:49.950 Michael Neece: So you think in the pandemic and the unemployment rate being really high, that no candidate.

00:25:50.610 --> 00:26:00.420 Michael Neece: Would get a counter offer or have multiple offers. Well, that's what the recruiters are finding they're trying to recruit people from one company to place them in another

00:26:00.870 --> 00:26:08.760 Michael Neece: But the person when they go to resign their current company is offering them more money to stay and a promotion to stay

00:26:09.360 --> 00:26:17.550 Michael Neece: And if they, you know, if they're committed to leave. Sometimes they're getting multiple offers you think unemployment rate must be really low, there must be a war for talent going on.

00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:34.320 Graham Dobbin: Well, and is it a case again I'm surmising some of the industry's. I'm wondering if it's very specific types of jobs or if people have potentially transferable skills that will be able to go into these markets.

00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:47.640 Michael Neece: Yes. Everybody has transferable skills. They just haven't really thought of them that way and employers hallucinate that industry experience is really important and it's actually the easiest thing to learn

00:26:48.150 --> 00:27:03.990 Michael Neece: In terms of skill sets. Now, if you're looking for work and you're trying to identify your transferable skills. What you can do is go through a simple exercise of making an inventory of your talent.

00:27:05.100 --> 00:27:07.950 Michael Neece: Of you can make a list of here's the things that I've done.

00:27:09.390 --> 00:27:17.730 Michael Neece: Here. So that's like, here's the things that I've done. Here's the tools that I use and it's mostly computer tools for the most part.

00:27:19.560 --> 00:27:24.510 Michael Neece: Here's the kind of results that I've gotten and they can be both qualitative and quantitative

00:27:25.710 --> 00:27:29.940 Michael Neece: fourth category that you just imagine an Excel spreadsheet.

00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:42.180 Michael Neece: Here, making these life. And so one of the categories is the industries where you worked. But if you just eliminated that just erase that column, you'd have all of these other things that you've done.

00:27:43.230 --> 00:28:01.470 Michael Neece: And so the next thing you do is now that you have separated, your experience from the industry where you did it. Now think of simple stories that you can tell that demonstrate the talents that you've demonstrated and getting those results.

00:28:03.090 --> 00:28:04.230 Graham Dobbin: So it's all about evidence

00:28:04.890 --> 00:28:13.560 Michael Neece: It's all about evidence presented in a very structured to telling a structured story that provides evidence of your transferable skills.

00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:25.320 Graham Dobbin: Um, I, I always find it interesting when we when I'm interviewing people or have a look on LinkedIn or have a look at resumes or CBS as we recall them.

00:28:26.490 --> 00:28:38.460 Graham Dobbin: In in the UK. And how many people don't just tell it like it is. This is what I've done in this is what I've achieved. There's lots of my classes website. Speak. Speak, speak. Yeah.

00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:47.400 Graham Dobbin: Written written language on how we don't speak just absolutely get sweet don't. And here's the evidence of what I've done. And then you can bring the evidence.

00:28:47.850 --> 00:28:53.730 Graham Dobbin: What would you suggest if somebody thinks that they're really good at something that doesn't have the evidence for it should include it or no.

00:28:54.390 --> 00:29:03.780 Michael Neece: No, they should absolutely include it. Because if you're passionate about something you've got some evidence, where you have either done something already in a vault now.

00:29:04.230 --> 00:29:13.890 Michael Neece: volunteer experience absolutely counts. Just because you didn't get paid. Do something you're working at a volunteer organization, just because you didn't get paid. It's still provides

00:29:14.070 --> 00:29:20.220 Michael Neece: Yes, this meaningful evidence. In fact, it's more meaningful evidence because you did it by choice.

00:29:22.230 --> 00:29:22.890 Michael Neece: By passion.

00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:30.330 Michael Neece: The language of resumes is morphing a little bit. Traditionally,

00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:36.330 Michael Neece: Resumes have their own way their own speak the way the

00:29:38.070 --> 00:29:58.020 Michael Neece: Way the sentences are structured. They usually begin. Traditionally, they began with words that end in Ed like I purchased I project managed I facilitated I cured I tested I developed, like, you know, all of these things. So, but the

00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:05.790 Michael Neece: People are getting more personal. Okay. And the way that they're describing their experience.

00:30:06.870 --> 00:30:22.710 Michael Neece: Is a lot is morphing toward conversation. It's like, and they reveal things about what they do and how they got to where they were. I'll give you an example. I was watching a video of a CEO at a startup company.

00:30:23.850 --> 00:30:27.150 Michael Neece: And he was and it was in the about section of the company.

00:30:28.290 --> 00:30:36.000 Michael Neece: Now he didn't say, Hey, I'm the CEO of this this company. And here's what we're trying to do, or trying to transform this

00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:46.710 Michael Neece: It started out by saying, you know, when I was 12 years old, I didn't. And he starts telling his life story and how he got to

00:30:47.130 --> 00:31:00.360 Michael Neece: Where he is, and he described why he's passionate about what he and this company that he just started is doing. And I gotta tell you he was telling a store personal story.

00:31:01.410 --> 00:31:04.590 Michael Neece: 90% of that story had nothing to do with business.

00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:06.720 Michael Neece: And I was riveted

00:31:07.560 --> 00:31:09.060 Graham Dobbin: But we got the inside of the person.

00:31:09.300 --> 00:31:14.910 Michael Neece: Because exactly right. So you're we're finding this morphing of the

00:31:15.930 --> 00:31:21.750 Michael Neece: Our personal stories are being injected into our resumes and cover letters, if we decide to write one

00:31:22.650 --> 00:31:37.140 Graham Dobbin: We will. Let's take a little bit more into that after the break, Michael, because one of the big things that said regularly know is what's your why, why are you doing things and not. That's what we bring to the table, more than anything else, because that's a unique point

00:31:37.620 --> 00:31:38.310 Graham Dobbin: You're listening to

00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:47.910 Graham Dobbin: The mind behind leadership, we're speaking with Michael. Nice to see evening. My name is Graham Dobbin you're listening to talk radio dot NYC. We'll be right back after these

00:34:07.110 --> 00:34:16.260 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back. The mind behind leadership, we're speaking with Michael nice Michael. We were just talking about your, tell me about a leader who taught his story.

00:34:17.010 --> 00:34:28.920 Graham Dobbin: Gave his wife, how he arrived there that give a real insight to that person that's maybe something we should be doing on a regular basis when we're trying to connect in business. So it just like we did think

00:34:29.490 --> 00:34:37.830 Graham Dobbin: What's, what's different is required from leaders nowadays because that's a different approach. But when we think of it what leaders need to do know.

00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:41.550 Graham Dobbin: How's that changed over the last few months.

00:34:43.050 --> 00:34:50.460 Michael Neece: Well, the leadership has changed overnight. What the skills that you had before.

00:34:51.510 --> 00:34:53.670 Michael Neece: That you use in a

00:34:54.810 --> 00:35:04.650 Michael Neece: Now traditional organization where you are in person, those skills, no longer serve you. You have to figure out

00:35:05.730 --> 00:35:11.100 Michael Neece: What skills are going to help you engage with your immediate

00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:14.160 Michael Neece: The people that you work around now.

00:35:15.600 --> 00:35:23.250 Michael Neece: You can't think of yourself. I'm the boss. I'm going to micromanage and I'm going to tell you what to do, how to do it and when to do it and how high to jump.

00:35:26.070 --> 00:35:27.390 Michael Neece: Everybody's a volunteer.

00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:46.500 Michael Neece: I mean, they always were except you get paid them some money for their time. But everybody was a volunteer. Now your leadership, you need to demonstrate lead by example, the qualities and culture that you want your immediate organization.

00:35:47.640 --> 00:35:56.730 Michael Neece: To exude. And so if you're the at the top of the house. If you're the CEO, that's one thing but you can if you're a first line supervisor.

00:35:57.150 --> 00:36:01.230 Michael Neece: You're probably were rewarded and promoted because you are a good technocrat

00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:13.950 Michael Neece: Whether you're in sales or marketing or software development. I don't mean by that you were rewarded for the skills you demonstrated a certain level. Now you get promoted and all of a sudden you landed. Okay, you're the manager.

00:36:15.180 --> 00:36:26.580 Michael Neece: And you're like, I don't really know how to be a manager and then coven hits and you're like, word everybody go, holy crap, I'm at home, and I, I don't know how to be a leader.

00:36:26.790 --> 00:36:29.460 Michael Neece: Yeah, yeah. So your

00:36:30.720 --> 00:36:34.770 Michael Neece: Your job is much more interpersonal then

00:36:35.850 --> 00:36:38.550 Michael Neece: Directing people what to do.

00:36:39.600 --> 00:36:41.580 Michael Neece: And so it's

00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:42.780 Michael Neece: More soft skills.

00:36:43.290 --> 00:36:53.070 Graham Dobbin: Yeah, it's interesting to sort the soft skills thing is, is what it feels like companies are beginning to understand that now awareness and so maybe beginning of next year.

00:36:53.640 --> 00:37:02.040 Graham Dobbin: Or even further, is Google was spoken about that in the show that Google said July next year. Personally, I think that was a good thing. It's a kind of a president we

00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:12.750 Graham Dobbin: We know they actually give us some certainty and uncertainty of what was what was happening. So that's the kind of skills that leaders need to maybe develop potentially soft skills.

00:37:12.930 --> 00:37:13.650 Michael Neece: Which is great for

00:37:13.680 --> 00:37:16.020 Graham Dobbin: Me because that keeps me in work as well. Yeah.

00:37:17.640 --> 00:37:26.670 Graham Dobbin: Because we want real leadership team dude soft skills in a regular basis. And we're seeing that shift just over the last few weeks that companies are beginning to seriously consider it.

00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:42.750 Graham Dobbin: You need to be thinking something as the as the candidate as the potential employee. What do we think to me, maybe, what do we need to be thinking about differently to show that we can work remotely different skills as an attitude.

00:37:43.680 --> 00:37:51.450 Michael Neece: Yeah, well, it is you. Well, time management, was it, which is a traditional skill set is now more important than ever.

00:37:52.620 --> 00:38:05.070 Michael Neece: So you need to be at, you know, I'm self directed I'm self motivated, like I i know what has to be done. I know how to attack it. And I know how to manage my time. Those are three primary skills that

00:38:05.490 --> 00:38:15.000 Michael Neece: Are front and center that we're not necessarily front and center before you know you could go to the office and, you know, time management, you could shoot the

00:38:16.170 --> 00:38:21.720 Michael Neece: We have be conversational with your peers and all of a sudden, it's still felt like work well. Now your peers are gone.

00:38:22.110 --> 00:38:32.160 Michael Neece: They're online and studies have shown that when people work from home. They're 30% they're almost instantly 30% more productive because there's a layer of distraction that has been removed.

00:38:32.550 --> 00:38:53.970 Michael Neece: Now, as a leader. Don't try and get in the way. Your job now is to set the objectives of what needs to be accomplished and set a reasonable timeline and negotiate ask, you know, you're, you're now asking the people that work with you. Here's what we need to do, but you're asking them.

00:38:55.290 --> 00:39:01.500 Michael Neece: Well, does that deadline seem reasonable and what resources and help do you need from me to try and make that happen.

00:39:03.240 --> 00:39:09.480 Michael Neece: So it's a lot more. It's a lot more co creative and collaborative than ever before.

00:39:10.770 --> 00:39:18.030 Graham Dobbin: Not brings me into something else. I'm just curious about the way this conversations going we began speaking about

00:39:18.690 --> 00:39:38.220 Graham Dobbin: You, being a physicist at an engineer and having all these phenomenal qualifications and what we're talking about now is about skills. Yeah. And I'm just wondering what what's more important in your eyes qualifications or skills. And so, so we we probably experience in within skills.

00:39:38.820 --> 00:39:39.300 Hmm.

00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:41.280 Michael Neece: Sure. So, so

00:39:43.350 --> 00:40:02.550 Michael Neece: The softer skills become our they have traditionally been and more now than ever. Those softer behavioral competencies called soft skills are the ones that are the most indicative of success. I will give. And so if you have someone that is a real pain in the neck.

00:40:03.570 --> 00:40:10.410 Michael Neece: To work with and they don't get along with everybody else. But they are a superior

00:40:11.550 --> 00:40:19.080 Michael Neece: coder product development, you know and and you know he's the guy with the mashed potatoes in his pocket and he's just anti social

00:40:19.470 --> 00:40:26.970 Michael Neece: You know that's that's actually not a setting of where when you're trying to develop a product. It's not very collaborative, you just like, oh,

00:40:27.510 --> 00:40:34.860 Michael Neece: He or she's working over there by themselves, because they're a wacko know that the collaboration is more more important than ever.

00:40:35.370 --> 00:40:46.590 Michael Neece: And I can give you lots of examples where as if you develop a product on your own. It's, you're probably building an app that is vulnerable cyber attacks, because you know

00:40:48.060 --> 00:40:54.420 Michael Neece: It's not in your it's not front of mind, you know, you have to collaborate with the person that has that

00:40:55.470 --> 00:41:05.730 Michael Neece: Cyber Security expertise to ensure that the app that you build is not going to be hackable and disclose personal information or credit card information, and that's just one tiny little example.

00:41:06.330 --> 00:41:15.750 Michael Neece: And there was studies. I remember this goes back to when I was a physicist student that was to Poly Tech and there was a

00:41:16.860 --> 00:41:26.460 Michael Neece: brilliant mathematician who is a professor and in class. He told this story where IBM had done this year long study

00:41:27.570 --> 00:41:39.000 Michael Neece: And it was a what they call a double blind study, he had the managers in the software development group. Make a list of a list of top performers that worked for them.

00:41:40.140 --> 00:41:52.080 Michael Neece: top performer, all the way to the down, you know, the least perform and they had hundreds if not thousands of lists like this across the company and then they correlated to the person's education.

00:41:53.130 --> 00:42:08.100 Michael Neece: To their level of performance. And what they found is the top programmers were history majors music majors liberal arts and the lowest performers were computer scientists

00:42:11.100 --> 00:42:20.490 Michael Neece: You know, who would have thought that was, you know, and now I don't know if that's still the same still the same, but people. People don't change that much. I imagined this still a bit of that today.

00:42:22.110 --> 00:42:26.940 Graham Dobbin: So did they give any kind of indication of why that was the case, what they were finding

00:42:27.690 --> 00:42:29.880 Michael Neece: Well now that they know the result.

00:42:31.590 --> 00:42:34.440 Michael Neece: What they theorized was that

00:42:35.640 --> 00:42:51.960 Michael Neece: People that had more liberal arts kinds of Education's were did not think as binary and in rules and constraints like a few when you go to engineering school is like, this is the formula.

00:42:52.410 --> 00:43:13.710 Michael Neece: You know, follow the rules and if you're a music major though you know you're creating music and there are no rules. You just gotta you know you're making stuff up your creative juices are going and that allows you to solve solve problems in a, in a way that previously were on imagined.

00:43:14.970 --> 00:43:21.120 Graham Dobbin: So what I'm hearing is that we want to succeed and jobs and there's a lot of people know, thinking about different industries.

00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:34.260 Graham Dobbin: I'm changing, changing professions exactly what happened in 2008 maybe going out there on that soft skills and creativity are probably more important than anything else to succeed quickly.

00:43:35.220 --> 00:43:44.400 Michael Neece: Yes. And that is true. And you can just like with hard skills. You can think of your soft skills as in your talent inventory

00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:58.680 Michael Neece: And think of stories where you have demonstrated those qualities, whether it was in a paid for a job or a volunteer job.

00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:08.700 Graham Dobbin: After the break we're going to dig into this a little bit more just, just just kind of maybe trying to isolate one or two, the soft skills that would

00:44:08.730 --> 00:44:09.750 Graham Dobbin: Be really useful.

00:44:10.110 --> 00:44:15.570 Graham Dobbin: And I'm probably going to be. I'm not probably I'm definitely going to be asking you what your ideal job is

00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:25.080 Graham Dobbin: Because you seem to be in the position that you can choose know that you know this, Michael, you seem to be in the position that you could probably choose any kind of job that you would like

00:44:25.620 --> 00:44:39.990 Graham Dobbin: And you're listening to grim Dobbin we're alive and on talk radio dot NYC where you're listening to the mind behind leadership and we're having a fascinating discussion with Michael. Nice. This evening we will be right back after these messages.

00:46:38.940 --> 00:46:45.450 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back, you're listening to the mind behind leadership, we're speaking with Michael. Nice. So, Michael, we've we've we've

00:46:46.140 --> 00:46:54.750 Graham Dobbin: We've, we've already sort of pull together that certainly soft skills are so important nowadays and becoming more important to becoming more prevalent.

00:46:55.050 --> 00:47:06.210 Graham Dobbin: That's what employers are looking for. And that's what leaders need. So what would you say was your top two or three kind of soft skills that people really need to hone in on and Ino

00:47:08.490 --> 00:47:11.820 Michael Neece: So the skills that they need. Well, I mentioned

00:47:15.090 --> 00:47:15.900 Graham Dobbin: Time management.

00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:24.810 Michael Neece: Yeah, time management being very organized being self directed and self motivated because you are working

00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:43.560 Michael Neece: At your home and it's not necessarily that conducive to work unless you have a separate office. So you need also be able to focus your attention on specific chat tasks and deliverables to get to get things done.

00:47:46.620 --> 00:47:50.670 Graham Dobbin: And this is one of the things most people that are so many books over there on

00:47:51.750 --> 00:48:03.540 Graham Dobbin: How to motivate yourself how to be a great time management great self team manager, how to do all these things actually bring bring a bring you into context that's when most people fall down.

00:48:03.930 --> 00:48:07.350 Graham Dobbin: So we know intellectually. We know what we should be doing.

00:48:07.710 --> 00:48:20.250 Graham Dobbin: Based and making it work for each individual so i would i would suggest if anybody's looking at things like that is to dig in that little bit and just see how it how it actually works for them. I'm Michael

00:48:21.390 --> 00:48:24.930 Graham Dobbin: Street for him yes or no. Could you get any job you want

00:48:26.250 --> 00:48:31.230 Graham Dobbin: Considering you know you know how to master that interview.

00:48:31.950 --> 00:48:32.730 Graham Dobbin: job you wanted

00:48:33.180 --> 00:48:41.550 Michael Neece: I probably couldn't get any job and then certainly you wouldn't want me as a nurse or a doctor, you wouldn't want me as a you know where there's a lot of hard skills.

00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:51.660 Michael Neece: That take a lot of training to develop. Certainly, I couldn't get those jobs software developer and I couldn't get jobs like that. Yeah. However, if the job. What if

00:48:52.590 --> 00:49:03.120 Michael Neece: A while. I'll give you an example. If there was a vice president of sales at an enterprise software technology company. Yep. Yeah.

00:49:04.140 --> 00:49:25.620 Michael Neece: I would be able to demonstrate the core competencies required to lead a sales organization. The reason is that that job is 95% leading and motivating people and it is less about the industry, it's much less about the industry.

00:49:26.790 --> 00:49:34.770 Michael Neece: Or the technical underlying technology that the sales organization is selling because as a sales leader. I'm not selling it.

00:49:35.640 --> 00:49:42.870 Michael Neece: The closer you get to the sale, you know, the front line. Where did the salesperson, and the customer or the systems engineer and the customer.

00:49:43.470 --> 00:49:56.130 Michael Neece: You got to know your stuff. But if you're the sales leader. Your job is to help to serve the people that you're asking them to get some results.

00:49:56.640 --> 00:50:05.250 Michael Neece: So you got to be an exceptional listener and you have to be transparent with your own values.

00:50:06.210 --> 00:50:18.330 Michael Neece: And you got to have your shit together. You can't bring your own neuroses to work and it's it's like being a father or a parent. If you don't have your shit together, your kids are going to pick up on it so

00:50:20.370 --> 00:50:37.890 Graham Dobbin: So do you see let's stick with seals and it's something something I know about as well. A little bit. Um, so, do you believe that someone who's got the good soft skills great leadership and understands the sales process and people can actually lead a sales team in almost any environment.

00:50:38.520 --> 00:50:44.220 Michael Neece: Oh yeah, absolutely, without exception, yes. Well, actually, all right with very few exceptions.

00:50:44.250 --> 00:50:45.030 Graham Dobbin: Exception, okay.

00:50:45.180 --> 00:50:49.110 Michael Neece: Yeah, very few exceptions, I early in my career.

00:50:50.940 --> 00:51:01.530 Michael Neece: One of my mentors drew a graph, it was a very simple graph and on the vertically. It was showing you as you go higher up in an organization.

00:51:02.190 --> 00:51:11.370 Michael Neece: But composition, the underlying composition of that job changes profoundly at the lowest level. It's very technical and just a little bit of people

00:51:11.640 --> 00:51:22.710 Michael Neece: And as you go higher and higher and higher. It's much more people and very little technical and what is in the middle is always a major component of communication.

00:51:24.660 --> 00:51:28.350 Graham Dobbin: So, what, what's your ideal job, then what would you, if you just described it.

00:51:29.100 --> 00:51:40.110 Michael Neece: No, no, I haven't. No, not in a sales organization that ideal job is a lot like what I do now is that trying to solve a particular problem that profoundly affects people's lives.

00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:51.690 Michael Neece: And having the creativity and the space to think about how to solve that problem. So it's a prot you know it'd be a subject that I'm passionate about and then

00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:59.370 Michael Neece: Then I would go about building it and trying to figure out how to solve it. So there's this strategic creative level.

00:52:00.120 --> 00:52:07.650 Michael Neece: That I would want to have. But then I also want to be part of creating some building something that solved the problem.

00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:17.910 Michael Neece: And that's I've done. Like I said, I've you mentioned at the beginning that I've started seven companies and every time. That's what I was trying to do, whether I was successful or not. That's what I was trying to do.

00:52:18.930 --> 00:52:29.550 Graham Dobbin: You seem to you seem to have done. Okay, Michael, you seem to so i i mean i imagine that your ideal job would be something like the head of sales for a seaplane company or something.

00:52:31.680 --> 00:52:31.980 Graham Dobbin: So,

00:52:32.490 --> 00:52:33.930 Michael Neece: That sounds. Brilliant. Yeah.

00:52:33.930 --> 00:52:34.200 And

00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:47.250 Graham Dobbin: When we were speaking other day you came up with something that was that was kind of obvious, but there was something else behind the you said to me, the jobs are important.

00:52:48.690 --> 00:52:49.170 Graham Dobbin: And the way

00:52:49.290 --> 00:52:55.980 Graham Dobbin: In the movies obviously something that could be. Yeah, I guess, is there was something more behind them for was that

00:52:57.060 --> 00:53:19.530 Michael Neece: Jobs profoundly affect the quality of your life. They are the most. And while it goes down to why I focused on solving the interview problem because interview, how you perform in an interview profoundly affects your financial career and quality of life. If you end the weird part is that

00:53:20.580 --> 00:53:28.080 Michael Neece: Interviews are where two strangers come together for 45 minutes and they each have a really big problem.

00:53:28.530 --> 00:53:39.750 Michael Neece: The candidate has to use some interview skills that they don't have they've never done they rarely ever do this and their entire quality of life is on the line.

00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:56.700 Michael Neece: And their financial health is on the line and they're trying to use a skill that they didn't practice and they rarely ever use the interviewer also has a problem. They're tasked with forecasting another person's future job performance and

00:53:58.350 --> 00:54:08.010 Michael Neece: Most of the time, like 95% of the time the interviewer has no idea what they're doing, but they have to predict the future. I don't know about you, but it's not a very

00:54:08.250 --> 00:54:12.690 Michael Neece: Exact science, the weatherman can't even tell you what the weather is going to be like tomorrow and they've got

00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:22.050 Michael Neece: multimillion dollar pieces of equipment trying to predict what the weather is going to be like tomorrow and they don't always 71% of the time they get it right. But the rest of time not

00:54:23.430 --> 00:54:25.590 Graham Dobbin: You you let you know your percentages. Don't you

00:54:26.040 --> 00:54:27.210 Michael Neece: Yeah, I remember the

00:54:27.240 --> 00:54:27.750 Graham Dobbin: Yeah, I do.

00:54:28.710 --> 00:54:36.150 Michael Neece: I do. And if I don't know the percentage, I will be precise, but not necessarily accurate.

00:54:39.600 --> 00:54:46.080 Graham Dobbin: We I almost feels like we're kind of naturally come full circle because we started speaking about

00:54:46.740 --> 00:54:54.690 Graham Dobbin: Gut instinct being part of the recruitment process needing to do though, so you know, we've only got a couple of minutes left. What kind of assessments should

00:54:54.960 --> 00:55:07.800 Graham Dobbin: Both the recruiter for what kind of things you'd be the baby assessing for and what should maybe a candidate be assessing for to try and find out if this is the right kind of company for them. And all we spoke about culture. Was there anything else.

00:55:08.580 --> 00:55:09.240 Michael Neece: Yeah, your

00:55:10.950 --> 00:55:20.310 Michael Neece: Culture is just one of four segments of what makes a good match the four characteristics, the four categories of

00:55:20.820 --> 00:55:40.950 Michael Neece: Matching are one is the experience or the hard skills. The second are more behavioral. What are the natural behaviors that this person exudes are their analytical. Are they well organized. They have into influence skills. They have selling skills, those kinds of things.

00:55:42.120 --> 00:55:55.590 Michael Neece: The third component are what I call professional skills. These are skills that dark discipline independent and that you might find in you might, for example, you might find project management needed for a financial analyst.

00:55:56.880 --> 00:56:00.750 Michael Neece: The head of nursing at or a

00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:05.730 Michael Neece: Project Management over a financial at a bank.

00:56:06.120 --> 00:56:21.390 Michael Neece: Your financial institution. So, project management of being computer fluent with Microsoft Office or Adobe's you know Creative Suite those things that you might find in multiple

00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:26.880 Michael Neece: Disciplines. And then the fourth category is what we've been talking about is that organizational cultural fit.

00:56:28.710 --> 00:56:32.760 Graham Dobbin: So just just finally, Mike, Michael, thank you for this.

00:56:34.590 --> 00:56:42.870 Graham Dobbin: We've spoken about the numbers we've spoken about what I was traditionally done. Give me just, you know, final quick tip, what

00:56:42.990 --> 00:56:46.020 Michael Neece: What numbers are you referring to have the numbers related to what

00:56:46.080 --> 00:56:56.700 Graham Dobbin: So you've spoken about what numbers we spoke about unemployment numbers and just kind of what might be going through people's minds give a very quick tip on how to overcome and just What approach should be

00:56:57.300 --> 00:57:08.940 Michael Neece: Yes. Well, well, think of how people how each one of us navigates the world you know we are the center of our universe. We are the most important person.

00:57:10.020 --> 00:57:23.190 Michael Neece: And the, the job market is very orbits around you. So how you get, you know, you are creating your own little job market. And it's overstated.

00:57:23.850 --> 00:57:39.060 Michael Neece: Like, oh my god, I've heard so many times people say, oh, networking networking networking when that's what you're doing is you're using your network or a network, you can create to manifest your own opportunities by creating your own little job market that orbits around you.

00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:57.720 Graham Dobbin: Thank you. So that's when when I take away that everything is micro in this Michael has been an absolute pleasure as always. You've been listening to Michael nice and Graham Dobbin here on the mind behind leadership on talk radio dot NYC. Join us next Thursday. Again, thank you. Good night.

00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:00.540 Michael Neece: Graham dog has been awesome. Thank you. Good night.

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