One of the key considerations for many companies at the moment is do they have the right talent to deal with the changing environment.
Our guest Mark Coronna is an expert at helping companies tap into what the need now, and identify what will be needed as they move forward. We'll also explore how a fractional CMO integrates into an existing team.
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Author, radio show host, and businessman Mark Coronna joins Graham tonight to discuss his own journey and what leadership means to him. To start, Graham talks about Google’s latest announcement to keep offices closed until next summer. Mark comments on how companies must stay tight knit during this complicated time period. Not only is the work environment changing, so are the workers. The ability to be flexible helps every member of a team to cope with change and uncertainty.
Mark then explains why he calls himself a “fractional CMO” and what that means to him. He then talks about how business is different in large versus small towns and how he has carried his past experiences from job to job.
Mark discusses how he came into his current position and how his career journey helped him become the leader he is today. After grad school at University of Wisconsin- Madison, he took a sales position at a startup company then eventually moved up to managing the department.
He emphasizes that you can't manage correctly when you can't see clearly. Prioritizing growth and progress with a clear head is a recipe for success. Being able to see potential and having a smart business approach is how to do it. Mark continues by weighing the values of entrepreneurship versus intrapreneurship.
Working at many companies over the years has given Mark a greater appreciation for diversity and everyone’s individual talents. So, to be a good leader, Mark notes that paying attention to people on an individual basis is what is very important to cooperation and collaboration. Rallying employees and valuing their time shows respect and encourages strong workplace morale.
Graham and Mark compare experiences in dealing with employees during difficult situations and how they rallied their teams to improve the workplace experience.
Graham and Mark discuss how employees are being treated better now that so many people are working from home. Having compassion and understanding for circumstance is also a key quality of leadership. The work world is changing and everyone needs to adapt accordingly. The ability to handle ambiguity and flexibility makes a strong team leader.
00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:50.970 Graham Dobbin: Hi, welcome to the mind behind leadership live on talk radio dot NYC with me. Graham Dobbin and every week, we've got guests from a broad range of disciplines.
00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:56.460 Graham Dobbin: We explain what we explore what makes a good leader. How do we build businesses, how the teams.
00:00:56.790 --> 00:01:06.120 Graham Dobbin: And how that influences leaders are all around us. We just got to be aware of that and the impact our lives. Sometimes positively sometimes not so
00:01:06.630 --> 00:01:14.790 Graham Dobbin: And it looks more sore than ever that everybody seems to have an opinion about leadership, whether it's in politics or business or in history.
00:01:15.300 --> 00:01:24.840 Graham Dobbin: And so these influencers are in our personal as well as our business lives and tonight we're really lucky to have a guest on who is
00:01:25.230 --> 00:01:30.480 Graham Dobbin: Working with the leadership teams in lots of different fields and brings up a ton of experience with it.
00:01:30.990 --> 00:01:37.740 Graham Dobbin: And I guess this evening is a guy called Mark Khurana mark as a partner and CMO of Chief outsiders.
00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:53.910 Graham Dobbin: And he is also the author of five ebooks focusing on business growth engines value propositions digital transformation and building an intelligent sales pipeline and having run sales teams that is really an intelligent sales pipeline that I've ever seen.
00:01:54.870 --> 00:02:04.830 Graham Dobbin: So we'll talk about that mark is also the host of his own radio show. You didn't tell me that we've got competition and you've got a podcast called the practical CMO
00:02:05.370 --> 00:02:20.670 Graham Dobbin: Employees is entrepreneurial spirit and executive experience to work with leadership teams and marketing business development sales product management operations and technology, Mark. Good evening, and welcome to the mind behind leadership.
00:02:21.630 --> 00:02:24.060 Mark Coronna: Thanks, Graham. Glad to join you this afternoon.
00:02:24.780 --> 00:02:35.280 Graham Dobbin: I'm my walk with God to get right. And we're going to, we want to talk about you and wanting to learn about your, your experiences and what happens, but we're always going to start off with something that's been in the news.
00:02:35.850 --> 00:02:44.010 Graham Dobbin: And on Monday night I had something I had an unusual. So the New York City and I didn't realize about six o'clock. It was a collective GASP
00:02:44.580 --> 00:03:02.370 Graham Dobbin: When Google announced that they were closing their offices until July next year, I could just hear that sharp intake of breath and right away I thought, you know, how's this going to impact, everybody. What does this. What's your take on that.
00:03:04.020 --> 00:03:15.240 Mark Coronna: You know, I'm not too surprised. I know a lot of a lot of companies have already said they were going to maintain their current working relationship through the end of this year.
00:03:16.200 --> 00:03:23.640 Mark Coronna: And, you know, they might come back in January, I think the the July probably took a lot of people by surprise. Right.
00:03:24.690 --> 00:03:30.330 Mark Coronna: But I think just beyond the sort of interim. How is this going to work for the next 12 months.
00:03:30.660 --> 00:03:44.250 Mark Coronna: I think this also sets up some fairly permanent changes and how workforces are managed and built and and you know and how they how they can work together, because I think for a large in a large part the
00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:53.280 Mark Coronna: The willingness and ability of companies to kind of come back together and large groups is going to be that appetites going to change. I think on an ongoing basis, Graham.
00:03:54.150 --> 00:04:05.580 Graham Dobbin: Essentially, my first reaction was a year. Really, we've got this know for another year. And this is, this is how other people are going to follow because Twitter. I think I've already said you can work at home forever.
00:04:06.210 --> 00:04:11.160 Graham Dobbin: And we had Yahoo. A number of years ago who said you could work at home in marissa meyer famously
00:04:11.670 --> 00:04:15.030 Graham Dobbin: And kind of went through all that and said, no, it doesn't work.
00:04:16.260 --> 00:04:17.670 Graham Dobbin: There was another part of me thought
00:04:17.850 --> 00:04:22.770 Graham Dobbin: That's a relief. We know know what we're working with the uncertainties kind of gone
00:04:23.550 --> 00:04:24.630 Graham Dobbin: Sign, we can plan.
00:04:25.290 --> 00:04:34.590 Mark Coronna: You know, I think I had a had lunch meeting today with CEO of a business that I helped through some horizon girls planning and you know we were talking about how
00:04:35.610 --> 00:04:47.670 Mark Coronna: The, the impact of uncertainty in any business, right, I mean, everybody wants to have a plan that they have high confidence in that they they built in a way that manages risk and
00:04:48.420 --> 00:04:54.810 Mark Coronna: Fashion, you know, whether it's something like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to go on vacation this fall or
00:04:55.290 --> 00:05:03.480 Mark Coronna: Or, you know, or even next spring. I think that one of the things that's really a sort of a drag on people right now is just not knowing
00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:12.480 Mark Coronna: You know today and in the upper Midwest, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Allow the governor's were sort of announcing their plans for the upcoming school year. Right.
00:05:12.930 --> 00:05:22.140 Mark Coronna: And you know, I think, whether you like the model that they selected to a lot of people. I think it's just a relief that they finally pick something right pick the mile so people can start
00:05:22.140 --> 00:05:22.590 Mark Coronna: To build
00:05:22.950 --> 00:05:24.000 Mark Coronna: A plan around that.
00:05:24.810 --> 00:05:31.860 Graham Dobbin: I am completely agree that the number of people that I know I've been holding often say maybe August, maybe September, maybe October.
00:05:32.700 --> 00:05:39.270 Graham Dobbin: But it almost feels like the relief of let's just get a line in the sand. We know what's going to happen if we can improve on it. Great.
00:05:39.930 --> 00:05:45.870 Graham Dobbin: But let's that that's where we're going. So now we can plan accordingly for 12 months because 12 months is a long time.
00:05:46.380 --> 00:05:59.190 Graham Dobbin: And I mean, somebody discussions. I've been having this week is the teams that left the offices in March, are not the teams that are that are certainly are no are the teams that will come back in, even if it's the same personnel.
00:05:59.790 --> 00:06:13.500 Graham Dobbin: You know, emotionally, psychologically, there's a whole lot of different things have gone on and now I'm working really closely with number three companies know just like how do you manage what's happening now and then the transition back
00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:19.530 Mark Coronna: And you know, I think one of the one of the impacts are going to see is
00:06:20.430 --> 00:06:28.620 Mark Coronna: That I think there's going to be more flexible staffing of the workforce, you know, probably fewer employees and more contractors
00:06:28.950 --> 00:06:38.100 Mark Coronna: Just so business because can can retain some flexibility, you know, staff ups. They have down if their plans change they might need different kinds of expertise.
00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:49.530 Mark Coronna: You know, I have a feeling. One of the more structural changes that will come out of this virus and thank thank you for not reading on the coronavirus I get enough of that job all the way back from
00:06:50.790 --> 00:06:51.210 Graham Dobbin: You say,
00:06:52.230 --> 00:06:52.650 Graham Dobbin: Thank you.
00:06:55.140 --> 00:06:55.380 Mark Coronna: So,
00:06:55.470 --> 00:06:57.090 Mark Coronna: I like to call it coven
00:06:57.210 --> 00:06:59.460 Mark Coronna: And I'm so happy that the media is sort of
00:06:59.460 --> 00:07:07.350 Mark Coronna: started calling that coven more often. Right. I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH A BEER either right but but
00:07:08.850 --> 00:07:19.800 Mark Coronna: But I think there's going to be sort of a rethink about staffing models and organizational approaches. Right. And I think a lot more of
00:07:20.550 --> 00:07:35.760 Mark Coronna: Sort of fractional fractional executives contract employees. I think that's going to be a lot more common and accepted in the workplace going forward as companies say, Well, I'm not sure. You know, particularly in manufacturing
00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:51.780 Mark Coronna: I'm not sure exactly what kind of demand. I'm going to see. I can't hire everybody back right now and I'm not sure when I'm going to hire them back. And so a more flexible staffing model, I think, is in a lot of companies futures
00:07:52.770 --> 00:08:02.580 Graham Dobbin: Well, you know, there's be especially in Europe than a lot of different um I'm staffing models that are out there, but people working three day WEEKS FOR THE WEEKS, you know, three day weekends.
00:08:03.150 --> 00:08:11.160 Graham Dobbin: And it may just give us an opportunity to kind of cut through that one of the I was speaking with someone in New York. The other night and said,
00:08:11.490 --> 00:08:16.230 Graham Dobbin: What will happen when the bars already open. And, you know, we can go out to two or three in the morning.
00:08:16.860 --> 00:08:32.910 Graham Dobbin: And this was a bad on me. He actually said, I don't know if people will want that anymore. They used to, you know, we're beginning to retrain ourselves. You used a word there right in the middle, you use the word called fractional and you call yourself a fractional CMOS
00:08:33.990 --> 00:08:36.990 Graham Dobbin: Can you just explain expand on what do we mean Mike fractional
00:08:37.800 --> 00:08:49.290 Mark Coronna: Well, you know, when I first heard the word I didn't understand it either. And even though I've been, you know, a partner in chief outsiders for three and a half years. I'm not sure it's a word.
00:08:49.680 --> 00:09:03.810 Mark Coronna: That many people in the marketplace understand or that one that, you know, sort of, I'm really comfortable with. But, but a fractional CMO and there are fractional Chief Mark Chief Financial officers or fractional sales executives.
00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:19.350 Mark Coronna: Is basically an executive whose expertise you can hire for some limited period of time, right, and you decide on what the need is and how long you want them there and not just give you an example of how it works.
00:09:19.890 --> 00:09:40.710 Mark Coronna: So for the last five or six years I've been a fractional Chief Marketing Officer for a manufacturing company in the Twin Cities and I'm basically a one day a week, Chief Marketing Officer. Right. They don't need a chief marketing officer full time, they couldn't afford one full time.
00:09:42.150 --> 00:09:50.250 Mark Coronna: And the CEO will tell you. Well, you know what I pay you. I could I could afford to hire probably a mid level marketing manager.
00:09:50.670 --> 00:09:59.130 Mark Coronna: But I wouldn't get the expertise that wouldn't get the strategy. I wouldn't get the best practices that you can bring as a fractional CMO
00:09:59.670 --> 00:10:07.950 Mark Coronna: Now you know that's a competent. I actually run that marketing group. I am the old marketing person in that business. Everything else is outsourced. I have a
00:10:08.220 --> 00:10:17.460 Mark Coronna: digital agency that manages our website and our digital campaigns have an account based marketing service provider that does all of our outbound lead
00:10:17.970 --> 00:10:27.570 Mark Coronna: prospecting and in high level of qualification. I have contract videographers contract writers. So everything all the marketing and that business is
00:10:28.260 --> 00:10:48.540 Mark Coronna: Is flexible in terms of, you know, being able to staff up or staff down or turn programs on or current programs off. It's sort of the, the ultimate in managing expenses on a variable way and they like it. It's worked really well for them this year in March. They were named
00:10:49.980 --> 00:10:52.320 Mark Coronna: 2020 manufacturer of the year.
00:10:52.680 --> 00:10:53.310 Graham Dobbin: By they're
00:10:53.430 --> 00:11:01.800 Mark Coronna: The big industry association and they're going, they've they've won manufacturing Excellence Award from Twin Cities business, one of the top
00:11:01.830 --> 00:11:03.450 Mark Coronna: local business relations.
00:11:03.900 --> 00:11:05.760 Mark Coronna: Well, thanks. But you know, it's a team effort. Right.
00:11:06.150 --> 00:11:16.140 Mark Coronna: I mean, I helped them with diversification, because that was their challenge three or four years ago they had too much business with in one market was one customer and
00:11:16.470 --> 00:11:29.310 Mark Coronna: You know, that's great. When you're writing it up and it's not so great when you're writing it back down and you know for a lot of small and midsize businesses Graham diversification seems to be kind of their big challenge today.
00:11:31.260 --> 00:11:31.680 Graham Dobbin: And
00:11:33.090 --> 00:11:40.470 Graham Dobbin: We'll go into a little bit more after the break we're gonna have a break to three minutes time but just before I hit an accent. And I think you mentioned something
00:11:41.730 --> 00:11:42.480 Graham Dobbin: About have an accent.
00:11:43.560 --> 00:11:46.860 Graham Dobbin: You mentioned something with the Twin Cities. So where are you actually based
00:11:47.460 --> 00:12:03.570 Mark Coronna: Mark Well, you and I couldn't be based in two different metropolises and and to call Stockholm Wisconsin population 66 anything other than the second smallest village in the state of Wisconsin would be overstating it
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:15.120 Mark Coronna: Right. So, tip to New Yorkers when you're flying cross country and you look down at the Mississippi River and you're looking at the west coast. The Wisconsin, you might see a little bat with a couple houses and
00:12:15.750 --> 00:12:26.700 Mark Coronna: That's where we live. It's a gorgeous part of the country. I'm an hour from the Twin Cities and I actually also work the Chicago market. So we have a place in Chicago. When I want my big metro experience. That's where we go
00:12:27.330 --> 00:12:37.230 Graham Dobbin: Well, so you've got 66 here during the break. I'm going to pop out and count how many people we've still got a New York because it's not quite as many as though it's still aware. I'm two
00:12:37.680 --> 00:12:49.200 Graham Dobbin: To three months ago. I'm just really, really briefly. And one of the things that I noticed is that when you work with different companies and different leadership's it must bring in
00:12:49.920 --> 00:13:00.420 Graham Dobbin: I suppose what I'm asking is how much there's working with one company do you take into another company. Maybe the experience not you'd experience. But what you experience working with them. How does that help
00:13:00.570 --> 00:13:08.940 Mark Coronna: Oh, I think a lot. I mean, every business likes to think they're unique right i mean even, even if they share an si, si code with, you know,
00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:21.630 Mark Coronna: 50,000 other businesses, I'll say, but we're unique right and and i think they have to think that way because if they thought they were another me to, then why would they continue to exist, right.
00:13:22.020 --> 00:13:28.620 Mark Coronna: I mean, they have to have those one or two or three distinctive competencies, which are really the foundation
00:13:29.010 --> 00:13:42.120 Mark Coronna: Of their of their value proposition and and their uniqueness. Right. I like to call them one or two or three unfair advantages right things that they can do that others haven't figured out yet, and
00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:50.100 Mark Coronna: But you know they're there. I mean, I like to say, you know, ideas and best practices can come from anywhere and you know the
00:13:50.460 --> 00:14:00.390 Mark Coronna: Among the clients that I've worked with over the last three and a half years. You know, I love the variety. I mean, Chief outsiders just close number 1000
00:14:01.380 --> 00:14:12.270 Mark Coronna: In terms of its clients over the last 12 years we've just got to 1000 and we've done work in 70 different industries. When you know one of the opportunities to share best practices from one industry to another.
00:14:12.660 --> 00:14:22.170 Mark Coronna: You know, some industries are behind. I did some work for a regional health system and they and they wanted me to work on it because I had financial services background.
00:14:22.470 --> 00:14:39.330 Mark Coronna: And it was all about digital transformation and they thought did financial services was 10 or 15 years ahead of healthcare and figuring out how to effectively do a digital transformation. So I think that brings a lot of advantage to that the businesses we work with
00:14:40.140 --> 00:14:46.440 Graham Dobbin: Is interesting you mentioned that this is the third conversation. I've had in two days about USP uniqueness.
00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:55.860 Graham Dobbin: And my argument is most companies actually don't have anything really unique. It's that approach that's unique or how the angle it so
00:14:56.550 --> 00:15:04.860 Graham Dobbin: With sales people and sales programs. I've just changed on our Ronnie one next week. And we're not going to look at the USP, the company are going to look at the USP of the past.
00:15:05.670 --> 00:15:12.450 Graham Dobbin: Because the people can do people make the difference on how they approach or how they talk what they do the product can almost be virtually the same
00:15:13.260 --> 00:15:18.090 Mark Coronna: Um, well, that's true. And we say 25 centers, we say our people, our playbooks
00:15:18.180 --> 00:15:18.930 Graham Dobbin: Right, absolutely.
00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.240 Mark Coronna: Bring individual expertise to the table.
00:15:21.810 --> 00:15:31.830 Graham Dobbin: So with that in mind, after the break we're going to get to dive in and get to know the person we're going to kind of get to know where you started and how you got into all of this, you're listening to the main behind
00:15:32.130 --> 00:15:43.650 Graham Dobbin: Leadership with me grim Dobbin I'm speaking with Mark Corolla here live in New York, Mark. So somewhere in Wisconsin with 6065 other people. I will be right back after this
00:17:50.520 --> 00:18:00.210 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back, you're listening to the mind behind leadership with me. Graham, Robin. I live in New York, we are speaking with Mark Corona, who is a partner and CO am or at
00:18:00.690 --> 00:18:03.630 Graham Dobbin: Chief outsiders know Mark
00:18:04.770 --> 00:18:12.090 Graham Dobbin: I'm just trying to imagine you at school or at college sitting there dreaming about being a fractional CMO
00:18:13.170 --> 00:18:14.670 Graham Dobbin: Is that is how, what happens
00:18:15.630 --> 00:18:16.140 Mark Coronna: Here.
00:18:16.410 --> 00:18:21.120 Mark Coronna: It happened exactly that way, even when I was like four years old and kindergarten. I thought
00:18:21.510 --> 00:18:23.850 Mark Coronna: You know there has to be something better than this. Right.
00:18:24.330 --> 00:18:28.140 Mark Coronna: I mean the Napper a rug to her. Okay, but the rest of it wasn't that interest.
00:18:29.670 --> 00:18:31.860 Graham Dobbin: You start off with this juggling. How did you do it.
00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:39.180 Mark Coronna: Well, you know, I, you know, if you. I think it's great. People have plans.
00:18:39.540 --> 00:18:54.990 Mark Coronna: But sometimes there are plans that happen just because you're you prepared yourself and you're kind of in the right place at the right time. Right, so, you know, I always encourage people. I do a lot of mentoring and coaching of people in transition. And I like to give back that way.
00:18:56.070 --> 00:18:57.750 Mark Coronna: And I always tell people, look, look.
00:18:58.230 --> 00:19:07.530 Mark Coronna: I you know design what an ideal role for you would be right before you actually go out and start networking and looking for your next job or whatever.
00:19:07.770 --> 00:19:17.190 Mark Coronna: What would an ideal role be for you, right. So, so let me start by kind of as a graduate student at the University of Wisconsin Madison.
00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:30.810 Mark Coronna: I worked my way through school in the data processing center, right. So it was great. You know, I go to class and then at night. I'd go work in the data processing center where we did all the administrative processing for the university system.
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:44.880 Mark Coronna: I also bought a used car and you know it's one of those used car sales stories, right, and my my my roommate was studying for a CPA exam.
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:56.670 Mark Coronna: While we were rooming together. So, you know, so I knew there were three things that I would never want to do. I was done with data processing, because I was tired of calling people up.
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:04.890 Mark Coronna: 11pm and getting yelled at, because their program didn't run right which was my fault that their program didn't run
00:20:05.250 --> 00:20:05.580 Graham Dobbin: You know,
00:20:06.540 --> 00:20:14.700 Mark Coronna: Yeah. Obviously. And, you know, had a poor experience in sales, and I thought my roommate. I mean, he's a great guy. I love them, but I thought
00:20:15.060 --> 00:20:27.150 Mark Coronna: I couldn't think of anything more boring than being a CPA and doing accounting. Right. So, and do three things that I definitely would not ever want to do and three years later.
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:47.670 Mark Coronna: I found myself selling accounting software. So it took it took the three things I was sure that I would never want to do and put them together in a combination that was actually kind of launched my business career. I took a sales position in a startup software company. I was number six.
00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:59.850 Mark Coronna: We grew at 100% six or seven years in a row grew it up to 180 people $18 million and I started out as a salesperson. And then I
00:21:00.390 --> 00:21:12.960 Mark Coronna: Took over marketing and sales which the sales people love because they're like Oh finally somebody in marketing knows what it's like. What were our draft like and then I did business development and product management.
00:21:14.100 --> 00:21:33.330 Mark Coronna: And just started to accumulate a variety of experiences, Graham. And so that was a that was a 10 year run but you know that that company ruined me for the rest of my life. And let me tell you why. So I thought, every company should grow 100% annually. Well, right, because we did right
00:21:34.530 --> 00:21:43.920 Mark Coronna: Oh no, I went took my first fortune 200 position and people were happy with, you know, a couple percent a year.
00:21:44.520 --> 00:21:52.830 Mark Coronna: And it was like, really, you could be happy with a couple of percent girl, you know, I mean, what, what's wrong with like 10 or 20% girl.
00:21:53.460 --> 00:22:02.460 Mark Coronna: I you know I knew you couldn't get to 100 but it is what it did is it gave me a passion for growth, which I've never lost. I mean, that's really what I
00:22:02.820 --> 00:22:13.140 Mark Coronna: Do most often for the small and mid sized businesses, I work with Graham is it's typically growth planning, helping them define their future opportunities.
00:22:13.410 --> 00:22:24.180 Mark Coronna: You know, identifying them profiling them scoring them prioritizing them financial modeling them, then you know an investor friend of mine says you can't
00:22:24.630 --> 00:22:35.280 Mark Coronna: manage what you can't see clearly. And so a lot of what I do today is helping helping these small and midsize businesses bring clarity into their potential futures and where their growth.
00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:42.360 Mark Coronna: Would be and you know it's girls that drives valuation. So it's a pretty important conversation for a lot of SMEs.
00:22:43.410 --> 00:22:56.610 Graham Dobbin: Again, talking with with businesses and with sales teams, etc. I'm always surprised by how many businesses and sales teams, just make the target. They just make it, they get to it. Just a normal is a big push in the last month or
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:08.730 Graham Dobbin: Two, and they get there. And I've always wondered, I've always I've actually done it with a couple of businesses. I had just added an extra five or 10% on and see what happened. And guess what most of the time, he just get to it.
00:23:09.510 --> 00:23:10.140 Graham Dobbin: Because sometimes
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.840 Graham Dobbin: Our targets can be a real limit we will look at growth.
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:17.790 Graham Dobbin: I'm curious because one of the things I'm noticing it was on your LinkedIn profile.
00:23:18.360 --> 00:23:25.140 Graham Dobbin: That you speak about and what can with different companies on some of the modern growth and growing the business.
00:23:25.260 --> 00:23:27.510 Graham Dobbin: And others that are both revitalizing them.
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:36.510 Graham Dobbin: You know something else. There's something's happened with the business. I'm guessing here if something's happened with a business and it just needs that lift. What's the difference in approach.
00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:43.080 Mark Coronna: You know, honestly, somebody would say, well, you have to think about it very differently. And I don't think you do.
00:23:44.130 --> 00:23:45.720 Mark Coronna: You approach that I use.
00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:52.020 Mark Coronna: Is I've used with probably, I don't know, hundreds of organizations.
00:23:52.410 --> 00:24:02.520 Mark Coronna: From the, from the first. You know, when I built it inside of a fortune 500 corporation back in the early 90s right is set up, they wanted. They needed an act to and an act three
00:24:02.850 --> 00:24:14.850 Mark Coronna: And they hired me to sort of build internal business incubator and accelerator to provide them with options and and so I built a stage gate methodology.
00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:16.980 Mark Coronna: Which is a very
00:24:18.630 --> 00:24:28.350 Mark Coronna: It's a strong process with a strong tool set and, you know, in the end, you still need to know what are your distinctive competencies. What's your value proposition.
00:24:28.620 --> 00:24:38.190 Mark Coronna: Who are your target markets, your target buyers. Right. I mean, all that information whether you're looking to accelerate your growth because you had a great year.
00:24:38.670 --> 00:24:53.010 Mark Coronna: And the owners of the business, say, Hey, you know, Graham. You knocked it out of the park. Fabulous. Now you think you could double this business in three years. Right. I mean, that's a different kind of girls challenge, right, then somebody who's got declining revenue or stagnated.
00:24:53.070 --> 00:24:53.520 Graham Dobbin: Yeah, but
00:24:53.550 --> 00:24:59.880 Mark Coronna: Honestly, my approach I approach them the same way. Probably there's a there's a different sense of urgency.
00:25:00.270 --> 00:25:19.350 Mark Coronna: Among those that really require revitalizing right and you have to focus a little bit more on what I call for is Horizon Zero, which is what can we do now to improve the business now right as opposed to in a year or two or three, so there's there's a little bit more emphasis on present
00:25:20.730 --> 00:25:23.490 Mark Coronna: But, but largely the process is very similar.
00:25:24.330 --> 00:25:32.100 Graham Dobbin: But I'm so I know you had that moment in college, but you always wanted to be a lot fractional CMOS you move towards it. Um,
00:25:32.820 --> 00:25:45.090 Graham Dobbin: But in all seriousness, though, when did you decide that you wanted to be an entrepreneur yourself. When did you take side that kind of, was there a moment where you said I need to do this note of that. It just kind of happened.
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:54.630 Mark Coronna: Well you know that the first company I work in, I was the sixth employee and, you know, that was the one that took off like a rocket the software company right
00:25:56.010 --> 00:26:01.110 Mark Coronna: And and then I did a turnaround on a communication software company with a friend.
00:26:02.310 --> 00:26:13.980 Mark Coronna: And but you know you're when you work in small businesses and that's your only experience you wonder how good am I really right. I don't really have any reference points or personal, professional benchmarks.
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:24.870 Mark Coronna: So I decided, you know what, I'm going to go work in a fortune Corporation and and that will be a good test to see if I'm really as good as you know i'd like to be right and
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:35.070 Mark Coronna: And so I went I was select select check printers largest small business customer. And so I approached him and about
00:26:35.970 --> 00:26:42.330 Mark Coronna: You know, joining the business and they want and what I did there was really into partnering that entrepreneurial right
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:54.150 Mark Coronna: So it was building startups inside of a major corporation. I also did that at US Bank. I was hired to do a startup inside of us bank and
00:26:54.660 --> 00:27:05.100 Mark Coronna: That was probably that was probably the most successful business I've ever started and ended up being a multi billion dollar business after a few years, and it was an internet
00:27:07.590 --> 00:27:15.840 Mark Coronna: business. The business payment network that I started there. And so this idea and I like interrupt entering because
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:23.400 Mark Coronna: As an executive, you don't have to worry about where the capital is going to come from, you know, once you go sell the vice chairman.
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:33.450 Mark Coronna: And he goes, Okay. Mark just send me the invoices, like, Great, now I can go build a business that can build a team. I can focus on it. I don't have to worry about am I going to make payroll this Friday.
00:27:33.780 --> 00:27:43.650 Mark Coronna: Right. And so I've argued this with a good friend for many, many years. He always thought entrepreneurial was the better route. I always thought entrepreneurial was the better route. Right.
00:27:43.830 --> 00:27:46.980 Graham Dobbin: Use other people's money that's
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:54.570 Graham Dobbin: That's so what would you see then is the biggest challenge to entrepreneurship is it that capital.
00:27:56.940 --> 00:28:05.430 Mark Coronna: Well, before you even get the capital, you have to have a good business plan. Right. I mean, nobody's going to give you money because they think you're a nice person. You know, I
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:06.900 Graham Dobbin: Think learning
00:28:07.320 --> 00:28:08.940 Mark Coronna: I know, I'm sorry to break
00:28:10.410 --> 00:28:13.650 Graham Dobbin: You tell me. I'm not even a nice person. So
00:28:15.750 --> 00:28:17.100 Mark Coronna: What I don't know you that well so
00:28:18.840 --> 00:28:20.070 Mark Coronna: But you know i mean they're
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:22.350 Mark Coronna: In college, we all learn the four
00:28:22.350 --> 00:28:24.360 Mark Coronna: PS of marketing, right, and they
00:28:24.390 --> 00:28:33.420 Mark Coronna: Still pop up every now and then, but you know I like alliteration. And so I think as an entrepreneur, there's three P's.
00:28:33.780 --> 00:28:44.940 Mark Coronna: That are really important and and I think actually any person or any organization looking for capital needs to demonstrate these three P's and the and the first P is
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:55.650 Mark Coronna: Past Performance. What have you done before. That's gives you credibility that makes you a subject matter expert in the business that you're talking about starting right
00:28:56.100 --> 00:29:01.920 Mark Coronna: The second P is the person you know for a lot of startups.
00:29:02.310 --> 00:29:18.000 Mark Coronna: And in even when you're fairly established organization and you want to bring in private equity growth capital they care about the leadership team and who is on there and how well you work together and you know the quality of your, of your engagement.
00:29:19.020 --> 00:29:26.280 Mark Coronna: And the third P is the plan itself the believability have you have you built a believable plan for the business.
00:29:26.670 --> 00:29:37.140 Mark Coronna: And if you don't get through those three things, then you're never going to get capital. I mean, it's just not gonna, it's not going to just fall down randomly on you just, you know, walking down the street, you really need to be prepared.
00:29:38.100 --> 00:29:42.900 Mark Coronna: In in those ways. And I think a lot of organizations don't know how to build a good business plan.
00:29:43.800 --> 00:29:51.540 Graham Dobbin: Essentially I you know I i do depend on it. And then I have things like Shark Tank of, you know, and again, it's called Dragon's Den in the UK.
00:29:52.170 --> 00:30:05.100 Graham Dobbin: And the amount of people this and they're getting resistance and the sharks are the dragons of saying, I don't know if I can invest, you have not kind of proven this plan to me and it says, but I believe in it, and they've got no other evidence other than I believe in it.
00:30:05.550 --> 00:30:08.490 Graham Dobbin: I put my life in my work and my soul. And you're absolutely right. Yeah.
00:30:08.670 --> 00:30:16.320 Graham Dobbin: What what gives us credibility. What, and you can see you can almost see these three play piece playing out and
00:30:16.860 --> 00:30:27.750 Graham Dobbin: I know we're all like that pitch again as a bit can try. You can also see credibly do invest is people have got some kind of performance there there's some kind of credibility that passes likable.
00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:32.700 Graham Dobbin: And you've got a plan to go ahead, it might be not be the right plan, but they've got something
00:30:33.840 --> 00:30:42.570 Graham Dobbin: That you can work with. And after the break we're going to kind of look a little bit more to the challenges, especially around people, Mark, I'm really going to be curious about
00:30:43.650 --> 00:30:50.550 Graham Dobbin: What challenges we've got with people as kind of look back into what we spoke about the very beginning, just in this age of uncertainty.
00:30:50.970 --> 00:31:02.310 Graham Dobbin: And how we can maybe help people is that you're listening to the main behind leadership with that me Graham Dobbin speaking with Mark Corona from chief outsiders and we'll be right back after these
00:33:20.310 --> 00:33:24.090 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back, we're talking their mind behind leadership with Mark
00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:36.870 Graham Dobbin: Khurana mark. So one of the things you said at the very beginning was, you know, people are really important. You see people as being can always the lifeblood of any business. I hear I hear lots of people saying that
00:33:37.530 --> 00:33:49.590 Graham Dobbin: But then also don't always see people treating employees staff and everything in the right way to actually prove that what would you seem that watering really well. How do we engage
00:33:50.820 --> 00:33:53.100 Graham Dobbin: Staff to make sure that they're running with us.
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:59.610 Mark Coronna: Yeah, well, you know, my, my master's degree Graham was in counseling psychology
00:34:00.090 --> 00:34:00.450 Graham Dobbin: Right.
00:34:00.510 --> 00:34:01.140 Mark Coronna: And I thought,
00:34:01.410 --> 00:34:15.210 Mark Coronna: When I first took my first business job in sales. I thought, well, okay, so, you know, the company that hired me thought that was actually going to be a benefit, but I never realized until later on. What a benefit counseling psychology was
00:34:15.510 --> 00:34:26.670 Mark Coronna: You know, being a good leader because you know it taught me to appreciate individuals their differences, their individual motivations that you know i mean
00:34:27.990 --> 00:34:32.550 Mark Coronna: We're all made the same, but we are what we have different gifts right and different talents and
00:34:33.660 --> 00:34:39.720 Mark Coronna: And I think just having an appreciation for individuals is really important, you know,
00:34:40.740 --> 00:34:51.480 Mark Coronna: I, you know, growing up in Wisconsin course Vince Lombardi was everybody's hero. Right. Unless you happen to be living in Wisconsin. And, you know, you're a Chicago Bears fan or something but
00:34:52.560 --> 00:35:05.460 Mark Coronna: But you know one thing people say about his leadership style is that he understood individual differences and individual motivations and and he could speak to people like you are the only person.
00:35:06.660 --> 00:35:13.860 Mark Coronna: In the room right but he really gave them individual attention. And so, you know, I think.
00:35:14.790 --> 00:35:22.140 Mark Coronna: Being a good leader is is really being able to pay attention to people on an individual basis. And yet, you've got
00:35:22.680 --> 00:35:30.630 Mark Coronna: You know, you've got to get them to collaborate to become a high performing team right and and having that individual appreciation, but having
00:35:31.110 --> 00:35:40.410 Mark Coronna: Goals and visions and you know rallying points that everybody can sort of grab. I mean, I think that's really important today and this sort of health crisis. Right.
00:35:41.550 --> 00:35:54.420 Mark Coronna: You know that the companies who I think are doing well have managed to rally their employees around, you know, whatever, whatever is kind of key for them to to survive and then ultimately to thrive.
00:35:56.970 --> 00:36:13.380 Graham Dobbin: It's interesting because I think the one that people. You and I are both travel the law. So we kind of work. Maybe it will work from home or from different sites. We're used to this. The only people that said to me at the beginning, working from home. This is going to be fantastic and
00:36:14.490 --> 00:36:17.460 Graham Dobbin: And it wasn't necessarily everything we thought it was going to be
00:36:18.060 --> 00:36:24.270 Graham Dobbin: So this is, this is, again, we're coming back to what we said at the beginning that the teams that have left or not the teams that have coming back.
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:40.740 Graham Dobbin: So you seeing anything that the companies that you're working with the do really well at the moment to to keep people engaged and check in, because it is, it's, it's probably, you know, I just written this down is probably about the individual differences more now than ever.
00:36:42.090 --> 00:36:42.690 Mark Coronna: Was
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.700 Graham Dobbin: All different at different environments.
00:36:45.060 --> 00:36:56.550 Mark Coronna: Right. You know, I think the effect of executives are those that are very transparent and and treat everybody in the workforce as an adult. Right. I mean, I work for
00:36:57.270 --> 00:37:12.180 Mark Coronna: A gentleman and a CEO of our part of a large company and in our whole division was declared non strategic right, which meant that over time they were going to sell a piece of glass and focus on a different part of the business.
00:37:12.180 --> 00:37:24.090 Mark Coronna: Right. And, you know, and I told them later on after I mean I left that business but he stayed a little longer. And then afterwards, I went back and said, Larry. I said, you know what
00:37:24.780 --> 00:37:35.760 Mark Coronna: I really appreciated. How you kept everybody engaged and motivated and he goes, Well, I said, You know, I said I really thought you did it. You did a masterful job of that. He goes, Well, Mark. He goes,
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:46.200 Mark Coronna: I was in it like you guys right i mean i didn't try to pretend that this is, you know, you're gonna you know this is going to impact you. It's not going to impact me. And so, you know,
00:37:47.010 --> 00:37:53.160 Mark Coronna: being transparent, I think, was really important and over communicating. One of the things I found is that
00:37:53.490 --> 00:38:01.440 Mark Coronna: You know when you've got a business challenge you know even going back to the financial crisis of oh eight. No nine. Right. Well, I felt as an executive I
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:11.190 Mark Coronna: There was nothing. I wasn't willing to talk about and and really stepped up the amount of communications and town hall meetings and, you know, things that
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:17.580 Mark Coronna: Keep everybody like feeling like they knew what was going on. I think that's really, really important.
00:38:19.110 --> 00:38:28.110 Graham Dobbin: Um, did you ever think that we would get to the stage where we would we gladly take 2008 in 2009 and again to get rid of.
00:38:30.120 --> 00:38:43.020 Graham Dobbin: That we never thought we'd be an essay. It's interesting you say that one of the one of the largest leadership projects I worked on a number of years ago was in the UK, and it was the largest nuclear processing plant in the UK and Europe.
00:38:43.530 --> 00:38:57.300 Graham Dobbin: At the time, and I had our leadership program to run with quite a number of number of their leaders and middle management and the twist on it was the nuclear processing plant was being decommissioned
00:38:58.560 --> 00:39:07.080 Graham Dobbin: In the middle of nowhere, but nothing else around it. They may even have had 65 or 66 people in the phone. So, you know, we've got we've actually got
00:39:07.680 --> 00:39:22.020 Graham Dobbin: The processing plant employees on like 12,000 15,000 people and they were running it down. How did you keep employees engaged and they actually did a really good job of it of, you know, overcoming what insurance. One of the things is is deal with the inevitable.
00:39:22.620 --> 00:39:25.890 Graham Dobbin: So we kind of got to that point or this is going to happen.
00:39:26.040 --> 00:39:35.130 Graham Dobbin: But the regal fighting or not. Why don't we try to meet the next two, three years as good as possible, rather than and fighting it. And it was a really interesting project, but it helped me
00:39:36.030 --> 00:39:44.160 Graham Dobbin: See exactly what you're saying. Again, back to individual differences, no matter who have gotten a room, and it can all be from the same company. They've all got a different experience.
00:39:44.700 --> 00:39:54.240 Graham Dobbin: So the cookie. It can't be cookie cutter can be what we would say in the UK chalk and talk just telling people what to do. We may understand them. We've got to
00:39:54.690 --> 00:40:01.680 Mark Coronna: Yeah, you know, there was there. I had one thing early, early in life that sort of dramatize how different people are to me.
00:40:02.070 --> 00:40:07.080 Mark Coronna: I was probably a senior in high school, or maybe I was a freshman at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.
00:40:07.560 --> 00:40:16.530 Mark Coronna: Oscar Meyer, the big meatpacker was the largest employer in town. Right. And I remember the in the local paper they covered a woman's retirement.
00:40:17.010 --> 00:40:25.050 Mark Coronna: She'd worked there for 37 years she was retiring and she ran the same Wiener stuffing machine for 37 years
00:40:25.470 --> 00:40:33.600 Mark Coronna: And I thought, Oh my God, how could anybody. I mean, I couldn't do it for 37 minutes, let alone 37 years right i mean the
00:40:33.990 --> 00:40:46.500 Mark Coronna: And so they asked her the question had to be on everybody's mind was, didn't you ever get bored and she said, no, I always thought my job was interesting, it was challenging every day was different and
00:40:47.670 --> 00:40:57.090 Mark Coronna: You know, I just thought, wow, they're really different kinds of people out there and thank goodness, that there are right because you know you can't
00:40:57.510 --> 00:41:00.930 Mark Coronna: You can't sort of build a workforce of everybody that sort of, you know,
00:41:01.530 --> 00:41:13.170 Mark Coronna: Wants to run off and do all different things, right, you need some people who like to be to do the same thing every day and do it well and do it with expertise and are interested in it.
00:41:13.620 --> 00:41:24.810 Mark Coronna: And I think more than anything. Graham that really dramatize how different people can be and I realize it's like, Boy, that's not me, but I'm sure glad that there are people like test healthcare right
00:41:26.130 --> 00:41:36.270 Graham Dobbin: Um, you know what, you absolutely you need the people who will go in do specific jobs and you can just trust them to do you know that the quality is going to be there.
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:38.940 Graham Dobbin: And sometimes I play the quality is probably good enough.
00:41:40.020 --> 00:41:45.420 Graham Dobbin: You know, it would be a difficult job. We've been difficult world's mark if everybody was like us.
00:41:46.680 --> 00:41:46.950 Mark Coronna: Well,
00:41:47.190 --> 00:41:48.030 Graham Dobbin: Very difficult.
00:41:49.050 --> 00:41:49.590 Mark Coronna: Yeah.
00:41:50.070 --> 00:41:56.580 Mark Coronna: Well, that would be for sure, but you know i think i think what people appreciate is when you genuinely care about them. Right.
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:05.760 Mark Coronna: I mean I've terminated. A lot of people through the years. So I'm just because you know we had to cut back some because of performance issues and things like that.
00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:14.160 Mark Coronna: But you know once you get through the process before they walk out your office, they say, wait a minute before you leave. Let me ask you a question. What can I do to help you.
00:42:15.150 --> 00:42:22.260 Mark Coronna: And they're like, what, what do you mean I go, Well, you know, the company is going to be just fine. Right, let's you know you understand why we had to do this right
00:42:22.650 --> 00:42:30.690 Mark Coronna: But what I want to talk about what I can do to help you. Right. What can I do for you, right. So I give you a reference. Can I help. Can I edit your
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:39.450 Mark Coronna: Your resume. Can I help you develop a one page networking profile. Are there people I know that I could introduce you to enter like you do that for me.
00:42:39.810 --> 00:42:51.930 Mark Coronna: It's like, Well, why wouldn't I just want you to be successful as a person. Right. You know, just because this particular situation didn't work out. Doesn't mean that there isn't a better situation for you out there somewhere.
00:42:52.890 --> 00:42:58.950 Graham Dobbin: It seems that we had a we had a guest that about three or four weeks of with Jeff combat, who's the CEO often pop in
00:43:00.060 --> 00:43:04.260 Graham Dobbin: An office furniture manufacturer in New York, they're working all over and
00:43:05.910 --> 00:43:21.540 Graham Dobbin: One of the things I know like the staff at popping and I noticed a few weeks ago LinkedIn posts long LinkedIn for saying how great pop in where what fantastic experience. It was working there. And then the final part was I will be sad to leave.
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:30.600 Graham Dobbin: And you would not quit genuinely they they went through a number of for laws and layoffs because of the current situation that happened quickly.
00:43:30.930 --> 00:43:32.280 Graham Dobbin: And they did it right.
00:43:32.490 --> 00:43:38.310 Graham Dobbin: But because it would be looking after the people you genuinely you would not know if someone would still employed.
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:45.120 Graham Dobbin: Or if they've been laid off until the very last sentence, this wasn't just one person there was quite a number on LinkedIn.
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:54.750 Graham Dobbin: And see how proud to work for the company, how well they've been treated. They were disappointed that, you know, a come to the end of the line, but they understood it.
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:59.010 Graham Dobbin: Yeah, that's, that's a powerful message for a company's culture.
00:43:59.550 --> 00:44:01.410 Mark Coronna: Yeah. Well, and, you know,
00:44:02.460 --> 00:44:11.460 Mark Coronna: I left us bank when the, when the bank was bought by an equal size think right and so there are two of all of us right to
00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:27.900 Mark Coronna: A senior VP of E business and whatever. And so, you know, the incoming company basically took a lot of this executive seats. But you know what US bank did, which I thought was brilliant is they started a reentry program.
00:44:28.950 --> 00:44:35.700 Mark Coronna: You know, it was like not immediately after the integration of the two banks, but, you know, three, four or five years later.
00:44:36.030 --> 00:44:43.290 Mark Coronna: They actually started a program where if you wanted to go back and work there, they would make it really easy for you to do that right now.
00:44:43.530 --> 00:44:55.110 Mark Coronna: You know how smart is that right, you have all these people and the okay they left for some reason, maybe they their job was eliminated. It didn't mean that they didn't like working there or they wouldn't like to work there again. Right.
00:44:55.620 --> 00:45:02.790 Mark Coronna: And it's so I just thought that was a great talent play one of the one of the smarter things I've ever seen any organization do
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:13.110 Graham Dobbin: After the break we're going to kind of talk about a number of things. But what your what your traits for leaders are and I'm going to have you think during the commercial break just
00:45:14.490 --> 00:45:26.910 Graham Dobbin: If you're a different skill, Mark, what would it be, what would it be if you could add this to your portfolio right now have a skill that could double your business. What kind of thinking today. I know what my goodness and and
00:45:27.210 --> 00:45:33.570 Graham Dobbin: Also, just what your views are going to be on how we are treating employees, though, because I think I'm beginning to see a difference.
00:45:34.080 --> 00:45:46.320 Graham Dobbin: On how employers are beginning to treat. So this is a grim Dobbin you're listening to the mind behind leadership, we're speaking with Mark corner from chief outside those THIS IS LIVE FROM NEW YORK AND WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK AFTER THESE
00:47:41.340 --> 00:47:47.160 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back to the mind behind leadership with Mark could honor this evening. Mark Did I catch you dancing to the engine.
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:55.470 Mark Coronna: Oh, you know that you said the music's gonna be good. And I'll pick you up on it, although I like soulful strike a couple of breaks ago a little better probably
00:47:57.720 --> 00:48:17.760 Graham Dobbin: Movements. Um, I said before the break, I think I'm beginning to spot that people have been a little bit more considerate about the teams and the that is genuinely a potential for for false complacency. No, because I know that there are a lot of
00:48:18.870 --> 00:48:25.320 Graham Dobbin: A lot of people are performing very well working from home, exactly. But when you scratch the surface.
00:48:25.860 --> 00:48:39.120 Graham Dobbin: For that actually doing to perform well how many hours are working with not switching off. Another thing you think that the employers are beginning to see what people are doing to get there be more considerate offer
00:48:40.380 --> 00:48:47.550 Mark Coronna: Well, you know, it's interesting because people who like for me, you know, to take a drive up to visit.
00:48:48.750 --> 00:48:53.730 Mark Coronna: A business up in Minneapolis and St. Paul is about an hour, an hour and a half. One way right
00:48:54.630 --> 00:49:06.540 Mark Coronna: And so if I go up and back. It's a three hour round trip and now and and pretty cool, but I was doing that 234 days a week, right, depending on on kind of what's going on up there and who needed what
00:49:07.500 --> 00:49:21.240 Mark Coronna: But cheap outsiders is a virtual business. So if I wasn't on site with a with a client, I was working from home and and so what what I've noticed from people who hadn't worked at home is that
00:49:22.170 --> 00:49:33.180 Mark Coronna: Some parts of it, they like, and some parts of it they don't like it all and the part. They don't like is the fact that they're finding themselves working much more than they did previously.
00:49:33.300 --> 00:49:44.760 Mark Coronna: Right. And they've traded drive time for extended hours on zoom right and you know initially that might might have seemed attractive, but
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:57.720 Mark Coronna: But I think there's definitely zoom exhaustion and you know everybody thought this whole virus thing was going to be a two week deal or a two months deal and now we're looking at zoom into our future. Right.
00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:06.570 Mark Coronna: And so I think, I think the there's a workload work balance shift that's different than
00:50:07.080 --> 00:50:07.350 Mark Coronna: Yeah.
00:50:07.410 --> 00:50:09.030 Mark Coronna: now than it was before. Great.
00:50:11.790 --> 00:50:12.060 Graham Dobbin: Yeah.
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:21.090 Graham Dobbin: I remember when this first started we would all want happy hours and doing this and everybody's getting together. It's a bit fun, it would then I stopped.
00:50:22.590 --> 00:50:35.250 Graham Dobbin: You know, and it is as quick as we can switch off. And the interesting thing is an email was know when I say I'm going to catch up with someone I you know I say Do you want to zoom or do you want to do it the old fashioned way. And let's just talk
00:50:35.850 --> 00:50:39.450 Graham Dobbin: Right, I genuinely that minded people that they
00:50:40.530 --> 00:50:49.200 Graham Dobbin: Want to just talk. Now I'm going to assume it's because they don't want they want to talk about fashion and before. It's not that they want to avoid seeing my face. I'm going to know sooner.
00:50:49.680 --> 00:50:53.850 Graham Dobbin: I'm going to assume it's a positive but people just want to have that chat, um,
00:50:53.880 --> 00:51:08.730 Mark Coronna: Well, no. I mean, I'm that way, you know, I'll offer people like you wanted it to me just call you, or do you want to do a zoom because I'm just as happy now just doing a call. Yeah, you know, sitting in a comfortable chair away from the laptop and focusing on the person and the call.
00:51:10.230 --> 00:51:10.920 Mark Coronna: I think are like
00:51:11.730 --> 00:51:23.640 Graham Dobbin: It's one of the one of the biggest learnings. I had to take when I moved to New York, just under three years ago was that people in New York tend not to fight each other the text each other to see as okay can I forward.
00:51:24.090 --> 00:51:32.010 Graham Dobbin: So from the UK we read for each other without any problem and it was. Jay, I was getting so many people who were tentatively answering the phone.
00:51:32.550 --> 00:51:37.890 Graham Dobbin: And I'm thinking, I had bad news or something like to start doing it. I had to warm up while we're going to call them.
00:51:38.550 --> 00:51:51.570 Graham Dobbin: I'm make mentioned before the break if there was something that you could do to resist skill. Something else you could do in your portfolio or something that you've got already that you could do even better. That would double your business, what would it be mark.
00:51:54.660 --> 00:52:09.870 Mark Coronna: You know, well, if we want to talk about sort of what are the characteristics of a great leader and which is the one that would impact a business, most significantly, you know, I think there are three or four that I put on my list Graham and I and I appreciate these
00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:20.670 Mark Coronna: These attributes or traits, because you know you can look at a resume and you don't get any idea who the person really is right. You can't this stuff does not come through a resume.
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:24.570 Mark Coronna: But I, I believe, you know,
00:52:25.980 --> 00:52:36.360 Mark Coronna: strategic thinkers important you know leader, right, the ability to think in future oriented terms anticipate consider external forces. Right.
00:52:36.690 --> 00:52:44.340 Mark Coronna: And, and, you know, that means absorbing a lot of information right and analyzing it, trying to figure out what's really important so
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:53.730 Mark Coronna: I think that's the first one I think collaborative is important, right know when I worked at US Bank at work for Vice Chairman a brilliant man.
00:52:54.180 --> 00:53:06.090 Mark Coronna: Who did not allow you to use the personal pronoun I me or mine and his presence. Right. And he because he believed, everything was a team success or a team failure.
00:53:07.050 --> 00:53:20.520 Mark Coronna: And the language that really drove them crazy if somebody said, in my world. It's like, Whoa, that was almost kind of a career limiting move right to say that this gentleman right but he was trying to make a point. Right.
00:53:20.580 --> 00:53:29.610 Mark Coronna: Yeah, how important teams are right. I don't think anybody gets anything done really on their own. And so being collaborative is really important.
00:53:30.810 --> 00:53:43.260 Mark Coronna: And I think your ability to handle ambiguity is important. You know, I mean, every, every business or most businesses probably had a fairly defined plan for 20 right
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:52.560 Mark Coronna: But now, what do you do, you know, this is not the same year. You thought it was going to be 21 is not going to be the same year. You thought it was going to be
00:53:52.980 --> 00:54:05.730 Mark Coronna: So are you flexible and say, so on your feet to be able to adapt. You know, I, the word pivot sort of is coming up all the time now. Right. But the idea is that it's really about flexibility that sort of rethink
00:54:06.690 --> 00:54:18.690 Mark Coronna: Where your opportunities really are. And I think ambiguity right now is probably just saying that single you know trait or attribute that I think is really important because
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:36.120 Mark Coronna: You know, I, nobody, nobody can tell you what next month is going to look like. Are we on the second wave of the virus is Wisconsin going to close as Minnesota going to open. What industries are going to do well. Which ones are not going to do well. You just can't. And so I think
00:54:37.290 --> 00:54:45.090 Mark Coronna: When you put those together. It's a pretty powerful combination Graham, but I think honestly of those three being able to handle ambiguity. Right.
00:54:45.420 --> 00:54:58.800 Mark Coronna: Interpret unclear situations deal constantly with paradoxes cope with change. I think that's probably the thing that, you know, among all the others. That's probably the most important at least it would be important to me.
00:54:59.520 --> 00:55:10.860 Graham Dobbin: It's really interesting. You choose those mark. I mean, I'm working with one in a household name I've got car manufacturer and we're looking at agility, we will be working. Let's go over here.
00:55:11.820 --> 00:55:28.770 Graham Dobbin: And Luca is one of the is one of the big towns, know that condemns which is volatility, uncertainty changing and ambiguity and and that came off of the US Army having to deal with the end of the Cold War.
00:55:29.190 --> 00:55:33.900 Graham Dobbin: Which was quite, I think this is really quite interesting. It wasn't during the Cold War. It was like
00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:43.080 Graham Dobbin: Okay, what, what does this mean know we've had this we've had this we've had this bad news for such a long time that we knew what we could deal with no we've got no idea
00:55:43.590 --> 00:55:54.120 Graham Dobbin: And we seem to be. And it's probably never been more important or more relevant in business and IT IS NO, BECAUSE WE CAME TO DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE I used the phrase, because
00:55:54.930 --> 00:56:03.600 Graham Dobbin: It's not picking the UK and I've only just recently realized it is skate to where the puck with the puck is going not where there is
00:56:04.200 --> 00:56:06.120 Mark Coronna: No, that'd be doing with Wayne Gretzky quote
00:56:06.120 --> 00:56:06.780 Graham Dobbin: Absolutely.
00:56:06.990 --> 00:56:12.480 Mark Coronna: Well, why, when somebody said, Why were you so successful, you know, and that was the answer right and
00:56:13.710 --> 00:56:25.950 Mark Coronna: But you know to understand the POC related to your business and your businesses opportunities today is quite challenging. Right, it's not, you know, following the single rubber little rubber things guardian across the eye.
00:56:26.550 --> 00:56:36.480 Graham Dobbin: And the moment. My guess is we actually don't know where the puck is going. But we know that vicinity. We could, we could know and if we've got enough flexibility within ourselves.
00:56:36.990 --> 00:56:46.980 Graham Dobbin: Then we can lead that team. And that's, you know, if we're gonna if we're going to expect flexibility and a team creativity and being able to change, then we've got to show ourselves.
00:56:47.910 --> 00:56:57.300 Graham Dobbin: Good chase mark there absolutely I'm buying on Mike's been a pleasure. Believe it or not, I would have come to the named already
00:56:58.560 --> 00:57:03.540 Mark Coronna: Keep going. Maybe we'll have to take this thread up on my show and you guest on my show and we'll just
00:57:04.350 --> 00:57:05.100 Graham Dobbin: Have to be
00:57:05.370 --> 00:57:10.110 Graham Dobbin: I would love to. And just remember I've treated you really kindly tonight, Mark.
00:57:11.670 --> 00:57:26.640 Graham Dobbin: Thank you so much for your time and this has been the main behind leadership with me. Graham dub, and we've been speaking to mark Khurana from Chico Seders join us next week again at seven o'clock here on talk radio dot NYC. Have a great evening.